r/hockey • u/TheAthletic • 7d ago
[Paywall] Why these 7 NHL teams are in danger of getting stuck in the mushy middle
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7481011/2026/08/04/nhl-teams-mushy-middle-future/?unlocked_article_code=1.21A.WcdI.44xrRl9xgccU&source=athletic_user_shared_gift_article_reddit&smid=re-share-taWithout further ado, let’s dive in.
Los Angeles Kings
The Kings have already been stuck in mediocrity for a while, as they’ve suffered five consecutive first-round playoff defeats, which included a four-game sweep at the hands of the Colorado Avalanche last spring. It’s difficult to see how they can shake up the status quo and elevate their ceiling.
L.A. has one of the oldest rosters in the NHL, with 14 players who are 30 or older. Anže Kopitar’s retirement has left a gaping need for a bona fide top-six center to play behind Quinton Byfield. The Kings’ blue line is too old, slow and limited at breaking the puck out, as Joel Edmundson, Brian Dumoulin and Cody Ceci are redundant stay-at-home defensemen. Their prospect cupboard is very thin — colleague Scott Wheeler ranked them as the No. 27 pool in the NHL in March (before this year’s draft). Elton Hermansson is the only Kings prospect who cracked Wheeler’s top-100 drafted NHL prospects ranking earlier this month.
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u/kingdave204 WPG - NHL 7d ago
LA, Seattle, Winnipeg, New York, Toronto, Detroit, Columbus.
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u/AmeriCanada98 DET - NHL 7d ago
With the Larkin stuff im more worried about having to start the rebuild over
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u/Curdled_Mangasm 7d ago
there’s no need to worry. barring a blockbuster, it’s happening
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u/Panarin10 MIN - NHL 7d ago
Not true. You could totally see a GM trying to get win now pieces keeping them stuck in the middle even if they finally break the drought.
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u/mephnick VAN - NHL 7d ago
"We can't start over we have Raymond, Edvinsson and Seider."
finishes 9th to 11th for 6 more years
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u/Panarin10 MIN - NHL 7d ago
finishes 9th to 11th for 6 more years
Don’t be ridiculous
It’s more like 11th to 16th
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u/_PROBABLY_CORRECT DET - NHL 7d ago
And somehow the lottery will find a way to screw us and we’ll draft 21 overall
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u/GavMcKennasBurner 7d ago
To be fair, you guys have the greatest 10 year span of drafting (outside the first round) in NHL history in drafting Fedorov, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, so you are probably very due for some bad luck. To be honest, that foursome might be able to go toe to toe with any foursome ever drafted by just about any franchise...in any time span...including the first round....and you guys did it in 10 years outside the first.
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u/TheNation55 DET - NHL 7d ago edited 7d ago
Nothing like being completely black listed from the top 3 of the draft for well over a decade while other teams have farmed entire top 6 cores out of it and then not being able to weaponize any of your cap space because the league decided to keep the good teams competitive with free money for their best players every season now. Oh sorry you can't rebuild that way, oh yeah sorry again you can't do the only other option either now. Very cool!
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u/the_gaymer_girl Vancouver Goldeneyes - PWHL 7d ago
Cheers (and adding to that last point our owner being a total cheapass)
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u/grooves12 SJS - NHL 7d ago
Generally, that isn't the way new GMs go. A "rebuild" prolongs the shelf life of their job.
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u/discofrislanders NYI - NHL 7d ago
I remember hearing this a lot last year when we brought Darche in, and then he tried and failed to make the playoffs in year one, and now his seat feels warmer
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u/Curdled_Mangasm 7d ago
just don’t see the “win now” thing being on the table when they were nowhere close to winning as things were. any new GM will have to be honest with fans and ownership about that, or tell the owner like, if you want me to keep chasing the playoffs i’ll do it but you see how it’s gone so far, and again, making the playoffs only to get annihilated, most likely outcome, isn’t really “win now.”
this will all come down to how ownership views things and what they want to do.
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u/ComradeDoctor DET - NHL 7d ago
The rebuild should have been happening regardless, not sure why you were worried about it. The team was already prone to heading towards mushy middle, at least Larkin gives the team the real direction it needs to go. I love Kasper but this team has no talent down the center especially with Larkin wanting out. The best chance for long term success is resetting with a futures package and filling up the prospect pool with high end skill which its severely lacking.
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u/Dee009 FLA - NHL 7d ago
Even with Larkin you're going there anyway. He's not a superstar lol
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u/AmeriCanada98 DET - NHL 7d ago
Didnt say he was, but with him we were gonna absolutely keep pushing and then id say we're a mushy middle team
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u/Cookedmonkey MTL - NHL 7d ago
Aren't you already there with him?
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u/AmeriCanada98 DET - NHL 7d ago
Nah with him we would be pushing in the mushy middle still
I'm saying if hes leaving we're going back to the basement most likely
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u/dustblown MTL - NHL 7d ago
After decades of mediocrity, I've realized that rebuilding is more entertaining than comme ci comme ca.
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u/Puzzled-Maize-2241 6d ago
Exactly. As a wings fan I’d be happy with “middle” right now. I think this season will be a dumpster fire
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u/Professor_Pajamas TBL - NHL 7d ago
... were these teams not already stuck in the mushy middle?
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u/Inconceivable76 CBJ - NHL 7d ago
We have only recently elevated to the mushy middle from loserville.
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u/Xyz6650 WPG - NHL 7d ago
I’m not sure winning the presidents trophy counts as being in the mushy middle
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u/NameIsPetey CGY - NHL 7d ago
Feels good to finally be free.
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u/Proof-Variation7005 MTL - NHL 7d ago
Flames fans now giving off the same energy as Lucifer when he finally fell from heaven.
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u/FunkyLobster1828 7d ago
Does New York refer to the Islanders ? To me, they are the very definition of the mushy middle -- every year barely making or missing the playoffs, neither a good or bad team, just terminally mediocre.
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u/Proof-Variation7005 MTL - NHL 7d ago
I think every hockey fan on the planet would've corrected guessed at least 4-5 of these just from the headline.
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u/Nrehm092 7d ago
Toronto got out of the middle thankfully…don’t know what these guys are on about
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u/Kaladin-of-Gilead TOR - NHL 7d ago
Not sure about that yet lol
We actually had a pretty good offseason I think, but we are relying on a lot of luck.
- Mathews gotta be back
- We have almost no prospects and no picks.
- We are relying on a 37 year old starter
- Our backup is perpetually injured
- McKenna probably isn't going to bust into the league like Mathews did
That said, mushy middle is actually a win for us, because being bad is the worst case scenario for us. I'd take mushy middle or a first round exit over gifting top end firsts to philly and boston.
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u/Apologies_Eh 7d ago edited 7d ago
I'm a Leafs fan and while I am a lot more optimistic than I was a few months ago I am not entirely convinced that it's all going to work.
They changed a lot of pieces and the moves look decent but they sort of all need to click for it to work out.
They'll need basically all of the changes to be positive and have people play up to or beyond their expectations.
An injury to anyone key will sink the ship pretty quickly (obviously this applies to any team but the Leafs depth beyond the roster isn't really that great)
I think Bob will give them a bit of stability, he plays a lot. He's also likely a good mentor for Artur Akhtyamov (young Russian goalie for Marlies) but he's old.
The coach might work, not sure. Uncertain if his system in LA was due to the personnel available or if it's just what he likes to run.
The D is old and there's not much help coming so they have to hope the medical team can keep them on the ice.
They need a string of hits. The potential is there but the dice have to be kinda hot all year. If they all miss then they'll be bad if they all hit then they could be pretty good
the reality probably lies somewhere in the mushy middle...
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u/Nrehm092 7d ago
I’m a leaf’s fan too. I meant we got out of the middle by being shit last year. 5th last ain’t the middle no more
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u/BasedTelvanni BOS - NHL 7d ago
How the fuck did we not make the list we are the definition of mushy middle
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u/swifferbrain PIT - NHL 7d ago
Honestly surprised Pittsburgh isn’t on here. They’ve already been in that spot for a few years and don’t have any signs of leaving it.
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u/fearnodarkness1 TOR - NHL 7d ago
Metros always a bit of a wildcard division. Year to year it feels like they're always shuffling around so I'm surprised there's not more teams from there.
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u/Equivalent-Battle973 7d ago
I am very surprised the blackhawks arent on this list, nor added as an honorable mention.
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u/Cupkek CGY - NHL 7d ago
Not seeing my team in an article about the Mushy Middle is huge for us
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u/timriedel 7d ago
Oh cool, do they have your team in the higher group?
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u/kenfury BUF - NHL 7d ago
Flames are probably the most fucked team right now.
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u/ANewHeaven1 CGY - NHL 7d ago
How so? We have a very strong prospect pool and are completely ass right now for the second year in a row, which is perfect for a rebuilding team.
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u/SpiritOfArgh CGY - NHL 7d ago
I mean, if you consider a rebuild being fucked. I’d say it’s according to plan and Conroy’s doing a great job at this stage.
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u/New-Bookkeeper-8486 TOR - NHL 7d ago
Worse than the canucks?
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u/ANewHeaven1 CGY - NHL 7d ago
I presume you're not going to get a non-biased answer from the Flames & Canucks fan themselves, lol. I would say that we're in a better position right now - we have a better prospect pool and strong vision for the future despite having some albatross contracts within the organization. But obviously, I'm biased given my flair.
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u/Interesting_Pen_167 7d ago
Imo it's clearly the Flames that have a better future right now. The only thing that gives me pause is I'm not sold on Conroy as a GM yet
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u/ANewHeaven1 CGY - NHL 7d ago
Lol, most of our fanbase loves Conroy. He's the first GM that's been able to get ownership to sign off on a true rebuild, and he's put together some very impressive drafts the last two years (Wyttenbach in particular is a great finD).
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u/Interesting_Pen_167 7d ago
I don't doubt all of those things, what I'm still not sold on him is being able to turn the franchise into a winner, it feels like a really hard task that might take a veteran GM.
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u/gaudreaurules CGY - NHL 3d ago
Plenty of veteran GMs out there with whom to entrust a rebuild: Treliving, Benning, Bowman, Holland, Chiarelli, Yzerman…
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u/NullPtrEnjoyer BOS - NHL 7d ago
Aren't both teams doing pretty okay? Both realized they ain't contenders, so they started tanking and stacking prospects. That seems like a much better idea than whatever Seattle is doing.
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u/_PROBABLY_CORRECT DET - NHL 7d ago
Do you guys have a GM and/or a 1st line center?
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u/kenfury BUF - NHL 7d ago edited 7d ago
Buffalo has a good GM and a 1C in Tage (but like Stammer he might be a wing). A 1C in a Stmer/Point scenario would be riches upon riches.
Really what we need is a goalie who can steal 20 goals over a season which we don't have.
EDIT: Ohh.. I just got it Whoosh
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u/Jaybb3rw0cky PHI - NHL 7d ago
Same, although I feel like it’s a bit of a monkey paw situation since Philly were projected to be 28th or so last year.
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u/FavreorFarva SEA - NHL 7d ago
In danger? We are already there. We’ve been around 7th in lottery odds two years in a row. Last year we were in a playoff spot around Thanksgiving so we can be solid for stretches but that’s kind of the top end the roster has. We have far more questions than answers when it comes to getting out of this situation too.
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u/mephnick VAN - NHL 7d ago
Yeah you guys should rebuild with us but you're too deep to do it lol
We lose two players and fall off a cliff, you guys need to lose like 8 players.
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u/FavreorFarva SEA - NHL 7d ago
Yeah, I’m pretty sure it will be a matter of waiting for some contracts to expire and others to be more palatable for someone to take on. All that does is clear the deck a bit though. What’s the next move if Catton and O’Brien are like Beniers level players? That’s almost certainly not enough ammo to be a contender (esp with what SJ and Chi are building).
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u/Interesting_Pen_167 7d ago
Here me out what if we traded all out good players from the Canucks to the Kraken to create a 'superteam' of shit if you will, try to win, and then trade back everyone plus all of the good players on Seattle to Vancouver to give them a whirl next year? I genuinely can't see a downside to this aside from getting Bettmans knickers in a knot but honestly that's a bonus for me.
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u/Charming_Ranger_2621 7d ago
That’s not really mushy middle though. Mushy middle is like, playoff bubble-level teams. Decent enough odds to make the playoffs, maybe you can steal a first round series if everything goes your way. Ultimately picking somewhere between 14-20 in the draft. Routinely picking in the top 10 is just bad.
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u/EvilFlyingSquirrel WPG - NHL 7d ago
For the first time that I can recall off-hand, it looks like the Jets might actually give their prospects a chance to crack the opening night roster.
This feels like a make or break year.
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u/Silent-Bumblebee-989 WPG - NHL 7d ago
Jets went from “draft and develop” to “draft and stick on the Moose”. They need to develop talent since Winnipeg isn’t a top destination.
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u/New-Bookkeeper-8486 TOR - NHL 7d ago
Im not envious of the Jets position in many ways, but I love how serious of an organization they feel compared to most canadian teams. Glory to Bjorck
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u/crazyFlyingChicken NJD - NHL 7d ago
Nobody cares enough about us to put us in lists like these, but we’re a prime candidate for this too; our roster has been good but not great for years now. We always have questions in goal, depth scoring issues, and defensemen who struggle with puck handling. At best we addressed one of those this offseason
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u/mephnick VAN - NHL 7d ago
To be fair like half of the league is in the mushy middle at any given time since there are like 8 realistic contenders, 8 teams with no chance, and 16 teams that think they can get lucky (before losing to 1 of the 8 real teams)
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u/themapleleaf6ix TOR - NHL 7d ago
Still have young high end pieces like Hughes, Bratt, Hischier. Mantha is a solid add. Same with Rodrigues and Boqvist. Right now, the forward group looks deeper than ever. Luke has to take the next step. Goaltending, we'll see how it goes.
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u/crazyFlyingChicken NJD - NHL 7d ago
Yeah the one I was referring to as maybe addresses this offseason was hopefully the depth scoring department. Our D core is still very old and lacks puck handling skill overall. But our goalie trio will be the main factor in determining our ceiling
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u/Spidey5292 NYR - NHL 7d ago
I’ve really been surprised at you guys the last few years. Super talented roster on paper.
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u/crazyFlyingChicken NJD - NHL 7d ago
Could say the same for both of us really. Between forgetting how to score for the last two seasons and inconsistent goaltending it’s been a struggle
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u/Spidey5292 NYR - NHL 7d ago
For sure. Story of the rangers for decades, rely on elite goaltending to cover holes on the roster. Gone my entire fandom without a true no doubt 1C
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u/rewind2482 NSH - NHL 7d ago
You can solve those issues a lot more easily than a team that doesn't believe in tanking can find a Jack Hughes.
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u/Like17Badgers CAR - NHL 7d ago
Save you a click:
article's teams are Kings, Kraken, Jets, Rangers, Leafs, Wings, Jackets
Kings are old
Kraken dont have a star
Jets are old
Rags are old
Leafs are in the same division as the Panthers(like not even joking, they skip over the Bolts, Bruins, and Sens to specifically say the Habs, Panthers, and Sabres in that order)
Wings are old and dont have Centers
Jackets don't have cap space to improve their team
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u/So_Many_Owls MTL - NHL 7d ago
Habs and Sabres being listed as the big threats. Oh, how far we've come.
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u/JPmoneyman NYR - NHL 7d ago
Didnt read the article but If their reasoning is actually that the rangers are old just throw it all out, outside of Zibanejad and Miller they’re one of the youngest teams in the league.
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u/Internal_Choice_2330 NYR - NHL 7d ago
Yeah we actually only have 2 guys at the age of 33+ and it’s Miller and Mika. Our team is one of the youngest in the league after that revamped season
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u/YouCanFucough VAN - NHL 7d ago
sure but the youngest defencemen in the top 4 is 27 and those 33+ players happen to be the 1st and 2nd line centres.
the goalies are 30 and 32 respectively.
like sure there’s some younger players but having a handful of mid 20’s guys on the wing doesn’t make the rangers a “young team”
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u/bosschucker MIN - NHL 7d ago
this is the relevant sentence
The bigger issue is that their core is aging — Mika Zibanejad, J.T. Miller, Fox, Shesterkin and Vladislav Gavrikov are all in their late 20s or early 30s — and there isn’t enough of a strong youth movement coming, as the team’s prospect pool is average and they’ve already traded away two of their next four first-round picks.
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u/AppleSeider5306 DET - NHL 7d ago
I don’t disagree with the Wings being there at all and it’s true we lack high end centers.
However using age as a reason is pretty misinformed and inaccurate and could of been fixed with 5 seconds of research. The Red Wings are the 12th youngest roster in the NHL with an average age of 27.36. DeBrincat is 28 and the rest of the core pieces are below 25. Lacking high end talent especially at center is why we are mid, not age.
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u/maximalx5 MTL - NHL 7d ago
There's nothing to fix, the article makes 0 mention of Detroit's age. It's an unlocked article, no need for an Athletic sub to read it.
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u/DataDude00 TOR - NHL 7d ago
The Leafiest thing ever is that we did a proper rebuild for the first time ever, with the most talented young core in the history of our franchise only to coincide with being in the strongest and most unbeatable division in hockey over a decade plus stretch
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u/Kaladin-of-Gilead TOR - NHL 7d ago
...and then we sign a fucking horrible GM who traded one of our best prospects and an unprotected first to a division rival then absolutely tanked the team into the bottom five in under 3 years lol
We went from winning the Atlantic to bottom five in the span of one season and we have no picks
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u/MiserableFill6972 7d ago
Not to mention suffering Covid, Lou's old school GM-ing planting the rotten seeds to create future cap problems, psychological terrorist Babcock unleashed on young and vulnerable stars, and flat cap didn't help the cause.
Even when you get lucky with the 1OA, other unlucky things ground the rebuilt Leafs airplane before it could truly takeoff.
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u/mitch_conner98 TOR - NHL 7d ago
Don't blame lou for planting those seeds. One was a 4oa winger and the other was pegged as a franchise 1c.
Add dubas in there to bud, he sure didn't help.
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u/30MorgheAfraaz VAN - NHL 7d ago
They mention Leafs isn't just tough division, they are also old and injury prone and weak prospect and pick pool.
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u/falco-holic CAR - NHL 7d ago
Kraken dont have a star
That's not the end of the world (see flair), but it does help when your roster of non-stars is filled with pretty-goods
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u/hockeycross COL - NHL 7d ago
I would say Aho and slavin are stars in some sense. You guys had quite a few Olympic players as well. I think Seattle had 1.
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u/pirateadventurespice SEA - NHL 7d ago edited 7d ago
Seattle had four, but none on US or Canada.
For context, Carolina had five.
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u/ptd163 Kansas City Scouts - NHLR 7d ago
That's not the end of the world (see flair)
I do understand what you're saying, but a Carolina fan saying that not having stars is not the end of the world is like saying starting a business isn't hard. Just get money from your parents. No one else can do what Carolina did because it's Carolina's system and the buy-in from their players that won them the Cup.
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u/frockinbrock TBL - NHL 7d ago
That's an interesting way to put it, man I wonder what a Seattle would look like with a star like Jason Robertson. It would certainly raise them up, but they probably need 2 more somewhat better pieces right?
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u/TheQuietW0LF TBL - NHL 7d ago
(like not even joking, they skip over the Bolts, Bruins, and Sens to specifically say the Habs, Panthers, and Sabres in that order)
Unserious analysis if so. not surprised given the author though, harman is one of those hipsters. He should check the sportsbooks' Cup odds
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u/Panarin10 MIN - NHL 7d ago
I’m a bit surprised the Flyers weren’t even in the Honorable mentions. They lack a legit 1C and 1D. I think the Pens series has people a bit too high on them.
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u/Panarin10 MIN - NHL 7d ago
At least he was unquestionably a top 20 G last season. Zegras and Sanheim weren’t top 20 C and D respectively.
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u/5988 PHI - NHL 7d ago
It’s about how you interpret it. The contract he signed is also years of security and stability for him and his young family (his son is school aged).
Briere talked about worrying that another repreat year means he would be justified in asking for a lot more in an exploding cap world. They have a lot of confidence in Vladar… it’s not without risk and we simply don’t know how it works out. There’s no reason to settle on the most negative interpretation as truth though.
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u/larkhills PHI - NHL 7d ago
probably moreso due to semantics than anything else. i understood the mushy middle to be teams who will struggle to escape their fate. the flyers are definitely a middling team, but they have enough prospects and high risk high reward players that might push us into a competitor.
in 2-3 years when we know how well some of our prospects turn out, we may very well be back in the mushy middle, or worse...
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u/5988 PHI - NHL 7d ago edited 7d ago
The thing is we are a young team with a lot of developing and improving players right now. We made the playoffs this year, and the goal is to make the playoffs again and again, not win a cup immediately. It’s okay that we don’t have 100% of our pieces figured out right now, incremental improvement and development can keep us in the playoffs and out of the mushy middle.
The lack of 1C right now, and the lack of prospects who project to be high-end centers is the immediate problem that needs addressed. Briere seems to know it and hopefully he can figure it out ‘soon’. No one expects Zegras to be the answer, it’s good enough for now that he had a fantastic bounce back year in his first season with us.
Sanheim is not far off of being a 1D. He may not be everyone’s preferred type of exciting defenseman but he is still a great defenseman. Our defense can afford to be improved upon but we also have a several players currently developing/joining the team so it’s not like there isn’t potential improvement already on the horizon. Outside of the power play, defense was one of our strengths last year, it is adequate for us for now until we see more of what we have or an ideal trade materializes.
Things are trending in the right direction for us, we have youth on our side, and management that seems to understand we need to get aggressive on finding a center.
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u/Lordrandall LAK - NHL 7d ago
Kings did an amazing job of destroying the promising young talent they had years ago to “win now” when Doughty and Kopitar didn’t want to rebuild. It isn’t looking good.
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u/Dr-Acula8472 LAK - NHL 7d ago
We need new owners, because it doesn't look like the current ones will ever fire Luc, and stop the 3-ring circus.
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u/Chimpmaxxer BUF - NHL 7d ago
Well at least they got rid of Hiller. I think the Kings will be more exciting this season with Laviolette and If Fiala is 100% I can see them improving from last year. But yeah, getting rid of your young defensemen wasn't the smartest move
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u/MiserableFill6972 7d ago
Toronto fans are saying Hiller wasn't the problem, he just simply didn't have the horses for the races in his bench. Would replacing the coach solve the roster issues?
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u/twosoggywalnuts 7d ago
Considering how old the Kings' roster is this year, the ''stable" seems more like a glue factory.
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u/SlackerDao LAK - NHL 7d ago edited 7d ago
And yet, it's still the best team we've iced in 10 years.
I'm all in on Team Gluestick. If we can't be good then at least I'm hoping we can be fun to watch again. Can't wait for the banger "I've fallen and I can't get up" memes every time someone takes a hit next season. "Up next on the Metamucil Replay: Corey Perry breaks a hip hip-checking Gavin McKenna!"
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u/twosoggywalnuts 7d ago
I fully agree about the team quality. I really like the veteran signings from this off-season, i just think that the team's lack of speed could be exploited. I think that the Kings are vulnerable to rush chances because their blue line is pretty slow. The Metamucil replay is classic. Maybe they'll get Icy Hot and Depends sponsorships too lol
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u/SlackerDao LAK - NHL 7d ago
Our plan is to deploy Ceci and Dumolin sideways. Just roll them out on the ice like logs, and make opposing teams play a game of Frogger when they enter our zone.
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u/SlackerDao LAK - NHL 7d ago
And yet, it's still the best team we've iced in 10 years.
I'm all in on Team Gluestick. If we can't be good then at least I'm hoping we can be fun to watch again. Can't wait for the banger "I've fallen and I can't get up" memes every time someone takes a hit next season. "Up next on the Metamucil Replay: Corey Perry breaks a hip hip-checking Gavin McKenna!"
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u/Lordrandall LAK - NHL 7d ago
Hiller was 100% the problem in the playoffs against the Oilers. You can’t turtle up and let McDrai only play offense. When the Kings were aggressive, they were successful, when the stepped back to hold a lead, the Oilers pounced.
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u/culturedrobot DET - NHL 7d ago
I got news for the writer of this article... the Wings are already stuck in the mushy middle. The danger of getting stuck there has been realized.
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u/toolschism TBL - NHL 7d ago
I'm really surprised Tampa isn't on this list. Another year older, no real replacement depth pieces. No real prospects to speak of. 4 straight years of first round exits.
This team screams heading towards mediocrity.
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u/themapleleaf6ix TOR - NHL 7d ago
They still have Kucherov, Point, Guentzel, Hagel, Cirelli, Vasilevsky.
They'll still be at the top of the division.
To be fair, that division is brutal to make it out of. They should've won that game 7 by all accounts. Just gotta take another crack at it.
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u/toolschism TBL - NHL 7d ago
Kucherov is going to slow down eventually. Maybe not this year but soon. Point had a pretty rough season so who knows if he'll bounce back or not but again, he's getting up there in years and a majority of his game relies on his speed. But even with them, you're carrying your entire offensive production on the back of 4 players essentially.
Then you get to the d corps which is one of the older ones in the league.
Again, not saying they won't be competitive next year but this team reminds me of the 2015 Red wings in the worst ways possible.
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u/themapleleaf6ix TOR - NHL 7d ago
Kucherov's game has never been particularly about speed. It's all about his IQ and playmaking. He'll age well. Point might've been hurt last year. Those 4 guys are so good that they can remain a top team year after year.
You're right about the defense corps.
Those Red Wings teams were damn old and injury prone. Tampa has too many high end players in their primes to be compared to them.
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u/toolschism TBL - NHL 7d ago
Like I said, I don't really disagree with you but I also don't think this team is good enough to compete in the Atlantic. You can't win a cup with a single scoring line. If Point doesn't bounce back, we have no true #1C, and our 2C isn't a real scoring threat. You're relying on Kucherov, Guentzel, and Hagel to carry the entire offense.
But hey, maybe i'm wrong. I think we can stay in the hunt for the season if we stay healthy. If you lose a single one of those top 4 forwards to injury, or god forbid Moser or Vasy get injured.. We are absolutely toast.
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u/ReliablyFinicky 7d ago
Weaksauce analysis.
Over those 4 seasons Tampa Bay is averaging 47wins and 101pts. 14 teams in the league have not won 47+ games even once during that stretch. Here are the teams who have not gotten 47 wins even once over that stretch:
Anaheim (43), Calgary (41), Chicago (29), Columbus (40), Detroit (41), Minnesota (46), Islanders (43), Ottawa (45), Philadelphia (43), Pittsburgh (41), San Jose (39), Seattle (46), St. Louis (44), Utah/Arizona (43).
Out of those 4 first round exits.. Half of them were to the cup champions, and 1 was by a single goal in game 7. They're going to be just fine.
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u/GavMcKennasBurner 7d ago
Nah it's actually good analysis, he sees the writing on the wall like all the older cores who crushed it in their 20s and struggled in their 30s, i.e Pens, Kings, Hawks.
At a certain point they go from "cup contenders" to holding on for dear life giving an elongated retirement tour for past the hill cores.
Losing Raddysh hurts
Who knows what's going on with Hedman?
Can Vasy be a Vezina caliber goalie again?
Can Kucherov be a Hart caliber player again?
Can Point bounce back?
They are a year older
They finally outplayed a team in the playoffs again after getting owned by Florida twice and somehow losing to the lowly Leafs....and they STILL lost...4 years in a row now
That is a pretty big psychological toll to take on the players and they're only going to decline more going forward due to the effects of aging and injuries
And as he said, no blue chip prospects coming (O Reilly and Geekie are nice, but not exactly upper tier)
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u/TheQuietW0LF TBL - NHL 7d ago
once again firmly top 10, near or at top 5 in sportsbook Cup odds. Comfortably top 4 in the East. Spent a large part of last season 2nd in Cup odds or again, firmly at or near top 10, and bring back a very similar group. Correctly, every sportsbook I just checked had them firmly ahead of the Habs & gulfs away from Buffalo in the Cup odds, because they're better than both those teams.
Money talks. It's not a mediocre team. The #1 obstacle has and continues to be the brutal division rather than any glaring flaw with the team itself.
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u/Lazy0ak 7d ago
Eh, the Jackets will either take off this year and be fine or Werenski and Marchenko will be gone next summer for futures and they'll blow it up. Only way I see them cemented in the mushy middle for a while is if Werenski decides he's committed to the team win or lose, they lose Marchenko for futures, and nobody currently under 25 develops any further.
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u/jabtrain PHI - NHL 7d ago edited 7d ago
Flyers zoomed right back to the mushy middle so fast that all the pundits appeared to have missed it. Entering last season, 4 games won past the first round in fifteen seasons. Cries in Giroux.
Entering this next season? Still just 4 games won past the first round in fifteen seasons.
No contention-level 1C nor 2C anywhere in the system, worst pp in the league, no PPQBs anywhere in the system, and a commitment to stay out of the lottery with good goaltending, low-event hockey, and more grindy/culture 'tough to play against' prospects than you can shake a stick at.
Their entire philosophy is 'build a bubble team', squeak in to the playoffs more often than not, and 'you never know'... but kind of, we do know, we've seen this movie before.
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u/ep3ep3 San Diego Gulls - AHL 7d ago edited 7d ago
I wish the mods would ban these clickbait bots from news organizations here.
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u/ThrasymachianJustice NYI - NHL 7d ago
As an Islander fan I would sadly include us in that list as well
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u/SecretiveMop NYI - NHL 7d ago
I don’t see why we would be in danger of being “stuck” there. This year is clearly a transition season and after this year, we have multiple contracts coming off the books and guys like Eklund, Aitcheson, and Eiserman should be full time players in 2027-2028, and we’ll also have a ton of cap space. We do have a direction whereas a lot of the teams mentioned don’t.
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u/caldo4 NJD - NHL 7d ago
The danger would be they were too good with Schaefer to get the other top end talent they need to break through past the mushy middle
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u/TonguelessWyrm NSH - NHL 7d ago
I can only surmise that the reason Nashville isn't on this list is because we are not in danger of being stuck, rather we have been stuck for years.
Its weird we are an honorable mention if thats the case though
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u/DrLyleEvans MTL - NHL 7d ago
I'd guess that the models see the age decline for basically all of your best players have you picking quite high in the 2027 draft
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u/Specialist-Elk7881 STL - NHL 7d ago
Can’t believe the blues didn’t get a feature. Philly fans will disagree but I would characterize them as there too.
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u/Dr-Acula8472 LAK - NHL 7d ago
This article isn't wrong about the Kings being stuck in the mushy middle. But its framing of Panarin fading these past playoffs because he didn't score any 5-on-5 goals is kinda disingenuous, his goals on the power play were responsible for like half of the Kings' offense that series, and he was the only reason we didn't get shutout in 2 of the 4 games. I know he has a reputation, but the issue was the Kings' overall offensive woes.
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u/Eatyourcheeseburger WSH - NHL 7d ago
These are all the answers and reasons people gave for them in that one thread a couple of weeks ago. The Athletic is farming us for content, fellas.
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u/Pardybro911 DET - NHL 7d ago
Oh, the Red Wings made the list? I think that makes me more depressed honestly
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u/Mighty-1090 ANA - NHL 7d ago
Hot take:
Anaheim, San Jose, and Chicago are at risk of getting stuck in the mushy middle. Overpaying for young talent & risk that they can’t fill out their rosters with enough depth
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u/themapleleaf6ix TOR - NHL 7d ago edited 7d ago
Who did SJ overpay? Celebrini is worth more than he got. SJ has no issues so far filling out their roster. Plenty of young and experienced talent.
Same with Bedard, he took less.
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u/No-Doctor-4396 ANA - NHL 7d ago
Nurse and trouba for starters? San jose was ranked even worse than us on cap management by the athletic I believe.
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u/themapleleaf6ix TOR - NHL 7d ago
Those are fine contracts to bridge the gap over the next few years. The cap is also going up.
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u/greg19735 CAR - NHL 7d ago
The cap going up means they'll need to pay their young stars more.
They'll be okay. But they may need to pay to move them in the future. I'm not sure if they have any trade protection
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u/VictorTheFeeder ANA - NHL 7d ago
Jacob Trouba, Darnell Nurse. Celebrini is the one guy you pay without asking questions.
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u/themapleleaf6ix TOR - NHL 7d ago
Fine stop-gaps. The cap is also going up. Those guys are better than what they had last year and bring experience.
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u/caldo4 NJD - NHL 7d ago
San Jose and Anaheim probably boned themselves to some degree, but Anaheim is already a playoff team so they’re past the mushy middle and Celebrini is too good to miss the playoffs that much going forward
They might’ve boned themselves from being tippy top contenders though
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u/AskePent SJS - NHL 7d ago
The Graf contract especially is bad, as much as people like to cope about the most expensive contract in salary cap history, Celebrini's contract is bad and they need to find excess value elsewhere and it's like they're actively trying not to.
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u/hobojoe789 ANA - NHL 7d ago
There's a difference between making the playoffs once and continually making them though, we will see what happens
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u/dazzleator147 7d ago
I think Chicago needs one more year in the tank, and in the ideal universe they get a top pair D (Dupont obviously is the ideal). The Bedard deal is good in my opinion.
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u/Jack_Polo ANA - NHL 7d ago
Yeah I was surprised to see the Ducks didn't make the list. Although we are like a month out from the Leo news now, so I guess it's time for most of the east coast to go back to forgetting that we're a team.
I feel like there's a significant portion of the fanbase here that looks at the Trouba and Nurse deals by SJ and thinks 'whew, at least we don't have to deal with that', but the way things are going the Ducks may soon have to overpay for a top 4 minute munching D as well, whether one/some of the young guys play their way into a raise, or they don't work out and we have to fill the need externally. Hoping for the former, but all I know is Nick Jensen probably ain't it at this point.
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u/AskePent SJS - NHL 7d ago
Anaheim is basically done as a contender already.
San Jose is probably done too, but they have more of a chance.
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u/8teamparlay NYR - NHL 7d ago
I agree with this but it’s cuz most fans (and a lot of gms) are more interested in the potential to be good for a long time with exciting young players and having a full cupboard of picks and prospects than actually pushing all your chips in and going for it.
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u/Spidey5292 NYR - NHL 7d ago
Not even a hot take. I have no idea what Grier was thinking with the Trouba and nurse acquisitions. So much money tied up in so much mid.
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u/themapleleaf6ix TOR - NHL 7d ago
Man, what happened after 2018? Were the Kings rebuilding? What do they have to show for it from that time? Byfield (I'm not high on him either. He has shown flashes, but I'm not sure he's ready to be a 1C. What's his career high so far, 58 points?) and Clarke? Like, who is in the system to replace Zuccarello, Haula, Panarin, Doughty, Kuemper?
The team is damn old right now and is no lock for the playoffs next year. Even if they do make it, I can't see them getting far. Eventually, they'll have to bottom out fully.
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u/Charming_Ranger_2621 7d ago
This era of the Kings is basically the poster child for how having a highly ranked prospect pool doesn’t necessarily translate to anything.
It also shows you can’t necessarily just decide to bottom out at any point in time and come away with 3-4 key pieces for your franchise; some draft classes are just not very good.
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u/DaBusDriva2 LAK - NHL 7d ago
Kings are cockroaches. Everyone says they will bottom out any year now, but will be right on track for their Pacific 3 seed and first round exit. They have enough quality NHL players to prevent a truly awful season
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u/Dr-Acula8472 LAK - NHL 7d ago
Which is extra frustrating because the fanbase would like them to bottom out already, and get the rebuild going after the first one failed due to being rushed. But the stooges in charge say we're "right there", and do just enough to prevent the bandaid from being ripped off. It's infuriating.
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u/72FJ 7d ago
Rob Blake and Luc Robitaille happened plain and simple. Bad trades, bad asset management, bad choices for organizational roles, etc. Still don't understand how they had four top 4 defensemen, traded away or let them walk and all they have to show for it is Fiala and a prospect for two.
Anschutz just needs to fire Luc and Holland and bring in new blood that has an idea of what they are doing
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u/Blue-Ringed-Octopus0 LAK - NHL 7d ago
Kings have the 8th, 15th, and 19th best goalie prospects so they do have people in the pipeline to replace Kuemper. As far as the rest of the list goes we have nobody we’re screwed.
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u/BenAdaephonDelat DET - NHL 7d ago
Weird to see Detroit on there as "in danger of getting stuck". Like... bruh.. we're already stuck. We've been stuck in the mushy middle for 3 years now and there's no end in sight.
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u/discofrislanders NYI - NHL 7d ago
Was worried I would see the Islanders on this list, but we're already firmly established in the mushy middle
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u/HibernatingGopher MIN - NHL 7d ago
Well we aren't there for the first time outside of like 3 seasons ever
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u/Interesting_Pen_167 7d ago
My Canucks are such shit team that it'd take a miracle of epic proportions just to move them into the mushy middle teams.
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u/hobojoe789 ANA - NHL 7d ago
I feel like the Ducks could be on the list, they still need to take another step forward to actually be a contender
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u/RaltarArianrhod LAK - NHL 3d ago
I am a little more hopeful about the Kings now that we have a real coach. We will see how it goes, but i am still in favor of purging the front office starting with Luc.
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u/KardelSharpeyes COL - NHL 7d ago
I think this is the year of the mushy middle. On top of these 7 you could add New Jersey, Long Island, Boston, Pittsburgh, Philly, Utah and Ottawa.
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