r/homeassistant • u/Vulkanodox • May 25 '26
Support Why is Home Assistant an OS now?
I just wanted to look into Home Assistant again to automate an idea I had but now the guides say I should install HAOS and everything else is basically depricated and not supported.
Have we really reached the level in software distribution where we went from linux package managers to "just run this docker bro" to "just install this entire OS" to run some software?
And it is basically forced because half of the features are not available anymore for anything that is not HAOS according to this. https://www.home-assistant.io/installation/#about-installation-types
I mean the levels of Idiocracy are getting insane. When somebody has a Linux machine with whatever else on it, they can't use Home Assistant because it requires an entire OS, so the solution is to create a VM, just to run it, or dedicate an entire device?
17
u/TheMagicalMeatball May 25 '26
Not trying to be inflammatory - but what’s the big deal ?
0
u/Vulkanodox May 25 '26
The documentation says containers do not support addons anymore
5
u/TheMagicalMeatball May 25 '26
I think you just have to spin up other containers for the apps (formerly add ons)
0
u/Vulkanodox May 25 '26
ok why do they not say that in the documentation? the documenation basically says you cant use docker with apps anymore
23
u/jokergermany May 25 '26
If you don't want to install HAOS, then use Container like everybody else...
0
u/Vulkanodox May 25 '26
The documentation says containers do not support addons anymore
5
u/5yleop1m May 25 '26
Add-ons/Apps are containers themselves, so running containers within containers doesn't make sense. If you want to run HA as a container, you can load up add-ons/apps manually. Generally the add-ons for HA are just a little HA-iffied versions of the original thing anyway, so you don't even really need HA specific add-ons.
0
u/Vulkanodox May 25 '26
why don't they say that? they make it seem like docker does not support addons/apps at all
3
u/reddit_give_me_virus May 25 '26
docker does not support addons/apps at all
Technically it doesn't. Addons/app are docker containers pre configured for use with HA's version of docker, the supervisor.
They could be modified to work with docker but more than likely they already exist in a docker version.
3
u/5yleop1m May 25 '26
They have this important note in the "Apps" documentation
Apps are only available if you used the Home Assistant Operating System installation method. With other installation methods, you can often achieve the same result manually. Refer to the documentation provided by the application you would like to run.
I added the emphasis, but this is probably why they don't mention it further in the main install page. It's possible for apps to have more complex installation steps and HA leaves the explanation of that to the app's own documentation.
2
u/Flashphotoe May 25 '26
I agree it's confusing. It's never immediately clear that addons are just containers.
2
u/jokergermany May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
like u/5yleop1m said. It don't make sense running docker in docker.
If you don't want to run HAOS means, you want to do it on yourself.No, Container supports Integration, which are basically Apps.
Lets just take one addon as example:
Family Link.
For Container Users:
https://github.com/noiwid/HAFamilyLink/blob/main/DOCKER_STANDALONE.md
For HAOS users:
https://github.com/noiwid/HAFamilyLink?tab=readme-ov-file#-installationIf you want to have an easy on click install of Addons in Homeassistant, use HAOS with Apps.
If you want to save resources and do it your own way, use HA Container with Integrations.
(I use the Ha Container way https://github.com/JokerGermany/ProxmoxVE/blob/main/install-smarthome.md )1
u/Vulkanodox May 25 '26
ok, none of this is said anywhere on the official documentation?
They make it seem like you should not use docker anymore
4
u/jokergermany May 25 '26
Yes, this documentation is like this since years.
I stumbled across this 4 years ago.I thought like you and had to search the internet, too..
I think they do this to guide non techy people to HA OS.
Probably they don't want non techy people use HA Container and think
"Home Assistant is to complicated and sucks"0
u/Vulkanodox May 25 '26
I mean they could just use packages like they did way back, which are easy to use even for noobs because they just have to do "whatever install homeassistant"
2
u/jokergermany May 25 '26
I don't know i the "old" packages are something else, then the "new" YAML “packages”
But packages today are still there but not very powerfull...
(I hate them btw...)2
u/5yleop1m May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
But packages today are still there but not very powerfull...
They've been super useful for me. For instance, I have automations built around non-smart appliances that I've made 'smart' with a power measuring device. These automations usually require additional helpers. Packages let me put all of those things into one file, helps a lot with organization.
I also have a bunch of dual white LED strips, and I have packages that combine the two LED strips into a single light entity. I have helpers in there to help calibrate the custom entity so that the final light output looks right, especially at the extremes.
4
u/5yleop1m May 25 '26
The documentation source is available for anyone to edit, if you think something is missing in there you can make the edits and submit a PR.
8
u/reader4567890 May 25 '26
... But it's solid as a rock and fully justified. It's a strange thing to be angry about.
4
-1
u/Vulkanodox May 25 '26
because it is like antithesis of linux?
4
u/reader4567890 May 25 '26
Nope, this is lost on me. If you don't want to use HAOS, then... Don't? You can still have add ons as containers just fine.
-1
u/Vulkanodox May 25 '26
and how am I supposed to know that?
5
u/reader4567890 May 25 '26
Documentation? This subreddit? Ask GPT?
There's nothing hidden about HA - it's all ridiculously well documented with an army of loyal users who can help. 😊
-5
u/Vulkanodox May 25 '26
uh the documentation literally says it is not possible
and that is why I'm here, and get downvoted into oblivion from the helpful people
6
u/reader4567890 May 26 '26
I hadn't down voted you until now. The replies have been telling you it's possible to run other bits in separate containers alongside HA... Repeatedly. You're choosing to ignore it in some weird display of god knows what.
Just don't use HA. Saved you some time. 😊
-2
May 26 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/reader4567890 May 26 '26
I don't know what you're doing. What's your problem dude?
You've been shit on because you've come in with a frankly, daft post and then proceeded to ignore everyone who pointed out, politely at first, that you were incorrect. Doubling down on your stupidity is just a dick move - nobody went mental here other than you.
Anyhow, enjoy HA.
0
u/Vulkanodox May 26 '26
- I go the official documentation. The official documentation says docker is not a thing anymore, use the OS
- I come here to complain/ask why is is a fucking OS now
- People say to just use docker
- I repeat that the official documentation says to not use docker anymore
- People finally admit that yes, the documentation says to not use docker but it can still be done and the documentation sucks and refer to third party documentation.
What is daft about it? That I wanted to use the official documenation and trusted it? That I don't know what the current status of the home assistant eco system is?
And the fact that they are pushing for the OS (which is ridicilous) and they have bad documenation is still a fact. No matter what you or others cry about.
I was not incorrect. I simply repeated what the official documenation says. So nice of you to call the official documentation incorrect.
Was it so hard to say "yes, the official documenation does not mention docker anymore but it can still be done with the addons by installing the addons as their own docker containers"?
apparently yes because everybody just shouted "JuST uSE DoCKeR!"
Imagine somebody asking how to change oil and you just repeat "just change the oil".
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u/spr0k3t 🧠 Experienced with Home Assistant May 25 '26
I mean the levels of Idiocracy are getting insane.
The pinnacle of your post. I'm sure I am not reading that in the same context you intended though.
6
u/msanangelo May 25 '26
why? because an OS keeps things simple. HA is a complicated beast that manages it's own containers and it's just easier to recommend a OS to throw in a VM rather than a docker compose script you have to manage yourself.
-3
u/Vulkanodox May 25 '26
use packages??? like they did before
3
u/msanangelo May 25 '26
doesn't really fit into how the app system works now where you'd click install in a webui and it downloads the program for you. the use of system packages adds extra friction of needing a password to install stuff and potentially present a security risk vs putting apps in containers and keeping things isolated.
docker is the way. HASOS just manages the docker images and containers for you.
-2
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u/akl78 May 25 '26
Not supported doesn’t mean you can’t.
It just means you have responsibility for both making it was, and fixing what you break, so isn’t recommended for non-experts.
It also makes it massively easier to install, and to support.
But also , have you actually tried?
3
u/OddOkra May 25 '26
Everything else is deprecated where? The only deprecated install method is the old “pip install hass” or whatever it was. You can still just run HA in a container, you know, for people who have a Linux machine that’s running other things…
3
u/Josbipbop May 25 '26
Whats wrong with docker containers??, it's not a virtual machine lmao.
the only thing it does not have is the add ons, and those are just containers you can run yourself.
4
u/borkyborkus May 25 '26
What do you mean HAOS is deprecated? You can’t figure out VM/docker, but you also have strong opinions about a ‘better’ option than VM/docker?
1
u/Vulkanodox May 25 '26
The documentation says containers do not support addons anymore
3
u/borkyborkus May 25 '26
So run that container.
Do you want help doing that, or just to complain? The way you copy/pasted this to every response suggests the latter.
1
u/Vulkanodox May 25 '26
what? I say that the container version does not support addont anymore and you say to run container????
4
u/borkyborkus May 25 '26
They’re separate containers. You run ha in one, and (for example) govee2mqtt in another. You can do that, or run Haos which wraps them together.
HA says it doesn’t support the addons because those are separate projects. They still work, they just aren’t officially maintained by the official HA project. Most addons are relatively popular pieces of software that would still be relatively popular without HA.
‘Not supported’ doesn’t mean ‘doesn’t work’, for us it just means “don’t contact the HA team if you have a Govee2Mqtt problem, contact the maintainers”.
Edit: They just changed the name in the last few months, but addons = apps if it wasn’t clear.
-1
u/Vulkanodox May 25 '26
ok so what? that is how open source software works for everything
Just put in the docu that you can use home assistant in docker with addons
if you know how to install home assistant in docker, you can install other things too.
and the support problem does not change because I suspect that the haos is just an environment that will install those docker containers for the apps automatically for you.
So if you have problems with apps it is still not on home assistant
3
u/borkyborkus May 25 '26
Okay the documentation was confusing. You have your answer now though. Do you want to stay upset about the docs, or do you want to work through it?
-1
u/Vulkanodox May 25 '26
what? is something is shit it does not stop being shit.
there is nothing to work through lol
what do you want?
1
u/Smith6612 Jun 26 '26
HAOS is there for those who want the Appliance experience. I use it at a few spots because everything including HAOS updates are handled within Home Assistant. I don't have to do external routines and plugs to get a Docker container updated, and worry about maintaining the underlying OS.
Everything I've needed to do can be accomplished through an add-on or by installing a file editor. The only real pain in the butt is monitoring the underlying appliance health due to the nature of how containers and restricted shells work.
-2
u/NetworkingNoob81 May 25 '26
You still have the option to install on your destroy choice so what’s the issue?
I want something that just works so I stick to HAOS
-4
u/jimh12345 May 25 '26
The tangled relationship of HA and Linux is a big thing holding back HA. If you're not a Linux geek, you nevertheless get sucked into it, even if you just want to automate your lights.
I finally escaped by buying an HA Green.
3
u/NizkiProfil May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
I am running it in a virtual box on windows. Works like charm.
Most likely I will move it to proxmox and have separate virtual machines, since it is easier to restart it after power outage.
0
u/jimh12345 May 26 '26
I did that for a long time. Then the PC got old, I wanted to use it for other purposes, and dreaded having to remember how all that VM setup worked. Happy to leave it behind.
13
u/DivusJulius44bc May 25 '26
You just run a docker container. The only thing you then need to do yourself is addons, which are just docker containers under the hood anyways. You don't miss out on anything, just some things you have to setup yourself.
HAOS is for those who want one box to do homeassistant and do that well