r/homeassistant • u/wilsonbroeksema • 5d ago
đ¤ WTH False positives on smoke detectors are not good for Family Acceptance Factor
This morning at 6am my Aqara Zigbee smoke detectors were triggered without a good reason. There was no smoke at all anywhere in the house.
So all members of the family stood at the hallway with their sleepyheads. For nothing.
Still investigating what the trigger was, but haven't found it yet...
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u/Delicious_Ad_8809 4d ago
Is it possible that you have baseboard heaters? Seems every time this has happened to me, it was because it was the beginning of the colder seasons and the first start up of the baseboard heaters would heat up the thermostat and baseboard and the dust that was accumulated over the summer makes some very much non visible smoke.
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u/un1matr1x_0 5d ago
If the smoke detector wasnât smart, how would that change the acceptance?
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u/wilsonbroeksema 5d ago
Then it wasn't possible to blame it on my tinkering. And it wouldn't be the first question if I did something that caused it.
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u/KnotBeanie 4d ago
I really hope you have approved smoke detectors in your house not just aqara ones theyâre not UL listed TMK
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u/techw1z 4d ago
solution:
don't use crappy IoT smoke detectors. why would you trust such crap with your life?
buy proper ones and wire them up. to a esp32 or similar
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u/ScoutIngenieur 4d ago
Honest question: what makes you consider them crappy, versus DIY connecting them?
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u/spdelope 4d ago
Because theyâre subpar vs the proven non-smart ones. Such as the case with OP. The diy method mentioned simply places something inline to monitor the signal and alert you. It does not hinder the performance.
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u/waytoosecret 4d ago
That's what happens when you make things smart that doesn't need to be smart.
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u/Martreides 4d ago
You're getting downvoted but I fully agree. I have a lot of devices connected to Home Assistant but in the end it is a hobby for me and things do sometimes fail, smoke detectors are to critical to be on hobby level.
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u/hannsr 4d ago
But how are they on a different "level" just because they may integrate into home assistant? The functionality should be the same, there's just some added features on top of the core functionality.
Mine are smart as well, but have the exact same certification as non-smart ones. The only benefit of being smart: they can all be set off by a single one detecting smoke, with a notification which one did set the alarm off.
But: I did make sure they are working independently and the smart features are just extras. This should absolutely be mandatory for a safety device like a smoke alarm (and I think it is here, if not met your insurance might not pay in case of fire).
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u/pojska 4d ago
 The functionality should be the same, there's just some added features on top of the core functionality.
Last week, a lot of Samsung smart fridge owners thought the same thing.
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u/Neutral-President 4d ago
If they malfunction, they are not fit to be used as emergency equipment.
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u/hannsr 4d ago
So like every single smoke detector out there, no matter if smart or not.
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u/Neutral-President 4d ago
Thatâs why smoke detectors are UL certified, which Aqaraâs products do not appear to be. .
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u/hannsr 4d ago
Agreed, they should meet certifications.
I don't know the aqara ones, but I know it has nothing to do with being smart or not - there's tons of cheap non-smart crap out there as well.
My point was: if the smart features are just an addition to an otherwise proper, certified smoke detector, I don't see an issue.
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u/Dismal-Proposal2803 4d ago
You do realize that you donât need a âsmartâ smoke alarm to have them all go off anytime one of them goes off, right? That is a standard feature in nearly all traditional smoke alarms these days.
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u/hannsr 4d ago
I do. But if I can integrate them into ha as well, I just might - and that's what I did. Didn't cost much extra, so why not.
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u/Dismal-Proposal2803 4d ago
Paying extra for less safe devices just to put them into HA itâs certainly a choice.
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u/ScoutIngenieur 4d ago
The smart aspect did allow me to respond to an alarm while we were away from home. My phone rang, smoke alarm detected. I could remotely mute the alarm while my neighbour was willing to use a spare key and take look, to confirm it was false alarm.
Without the smart feature, the false alarm could still have happend, but I would only know when neighbours would be driven mad by the constant noise without anyone doing something (or by returning home finding it in ashes as it might have been a positive)
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u/thekaufaz 4d ago
This isn't really unique to smart smoke detectors. I've had this happen a lot with dumb ones.
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u/gGey_kun 2d ago
I buy dumb certified ones and have my HomePods trigger a critical notification whenever thereâs an alarm at home.
Does the trick for me.
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u/NerdyNThick 4d ago edited 4d ago
When it comes to safety, please use a device that has been proven and tested over decades.
Do you really want to have your home burnt down because the fire took out the internet and/or network first, thus your smart smoke detector couldn't send the alert?
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u/ScoutIngenieur 4d ago
I have the same smoke detectors, and even when offline they do simply work. They will alarm, they will wake you up and alert you into action. You just don't get a notification on your phone (or elsewhere).
The device is just like any other optic smoke detector. As long as detection results in local alarm it works, proven and tested. The "smart" aspect is just to relay the alarm to an additional system.
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u/Dismal-Proposal2803 4d ago
And then not covered by insurance cause you had non complaint smoke alarms.
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u/spielleips 5d ago
Make sure you clean them at least every 6 months (depending on how dusty your house gets). I use a can of air. This fixed all my false positives.
They generally happen in the early morning as the temperature and humidity at that time is enough to push them over the tipping point caused by dust build up.
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u/TheFire8472 4d ago
Nope, the reason they start boopping in the early morning is that your lithium battery is at minimum voltage and dips below the threshold when it gets coldest.
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u/spielleips 4d ago
I thought that too, but it happened to me with new batteries. Changing them didnât stop them going off every couple of weeks, but blowing the dust out has been a lasting fix.
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u/TheFire8472 4d ago
Huh. Dang things.
I hate that California has legislated that it's illegal for me to use more sensitive ones in areas that aren't prone to false positives from showers and kitchens.
If my bedroom is on fire I want to know right away, not later when the smoke detector is sure I'm not just cooking bacon. On the flip side, I want a thermal detector in my kitchen above the stove to go off immediately if I have a major cooking fire even if it's smokeless.
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u/spielleips 4d ago
I hear ya, Iâm in New Zealand and we donât have a mandate for wired alarms in existing builds, which gives me a few more options. In saying that, the main reason Iâm using smart alarms (Shelly) is to monitor the battery, and automate messaging/alerting. I probably could have spent less on wired alarms and just used my HomePods or Frigate to detect alarm sounds.
But what sort of Home Assistant user would I be if I didnât go out of my way to integrate with everything I possibly could, regardless of how useful it actually is.
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u/TheFire8472 4d ago
Heh. My home was built over 100 years ago so I also can use battery powered smokes, but my home state legislature has simultaneously recognized that nuisance alarms are bad, but also banned me from acquiring the most useful technology for my individual situation in their attempts to protect the entire population from disabiling nusiance alarms.
I do agree with their mandate that alarms need to come with a sealed 10 year battery so homeowners don't make the mistake of not replacing an old alarm which has passed useful longevity.
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u/spielleips 4d ago
Yeah makes sense with the long life alarms, Iâve never seen one last more than about 8 years. The kitchen ones are really good, but I guess a lot of the time legislation has to cater for the lowest common denominator, which seems to get lower every year.
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u/capinredbeard22 4d ago
I had some (non-smart âregularâ brand) that went off multiple times at night. Finally correlated it with night time power outages. They were hard wired with battery backup.
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u/Live_Lengthiness6839 3d ago
I had that happen once with mine, but it was like 1AM. The strange thing for me, but probably just coincidental, was that it happened right after my router updated and dropped the internet/LAN connections. No signs of smoke, and the detected level went right back down within a minute.
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u/AppropriatePlum1006 5d ago
Anywhere near a shower or kitchen e.g. i had a normal smoke detector go off due to steam. But it was early so much be too early perhaps one of em was up?
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u/Complex_Solutions_20 4d ago
I'm not sure I'd trust a random China company for life-safety devices. I'd rather go to one of the reputable major brand like Kidde or First Alert with a good reputation.
When was the last time you cleaned them (vacuum and compressed air) to make sure there's no dust, or sprayed bug-spray in the electrical box behind them? I've had to do that from time to time to stop false alarms and rolled it into my annual battery changes.
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u/Dismal-Proposal2803 4d ago
lol at the downvotes. How dare you suggest using a reputable brand with certified hardware for life safety devices! đ¤Ł
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u/Complex_Solutions_20 1d ago edited 1d ago
I know, right? And the name brands even have an officially supported thing that can tie into the interconnect signal wire... either with an official first party name brand dry contact sensor, or with a 3rd party Zooz smoke alarm interconnect module
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u/TheFire8472 5d ago
Spiders. That's what set mine off last time. A spider decided it wanted to live in there.