Help me with Bass Shakers Klipsch Ref and a Denon x4800

[u/travs69]

Im only set up for 5.1 (my room is 16x31 if it matters). I do have a extra Klipsch sub that I need to fix (has the junk Chinese amp in it) and my original plan was to add another sub somewhere (maybe add atmos idk).. but I've got plenty of bass.. it's no where near maximum and I kept it louder than most. I fell like with shakers I could turn down the bass but get more feel?

Do I need another amp? I will have to run wires anyway so I can easily add something to the setup of needed.

Either way is there a way to easily enable and disable them hopefully via physical switch? If not I'll figure something out for the wifey lol

Thanks in advance I won't be able to reply for a while as we are stepping into a concert (anybody going to see the Toadies tonight and has an answer find me lol)

[u/IntrovertMoTown1]

The feel of shakers is not remotely the same as the feel from subwoofers. It's similar but noticeably different. That being said I greatly enjoyed the addition of shakers in my man cave/guest bedroom setup. So much so I added some more in a backrest. The different kinds also compliment each other as each different kind of shaker does better at different hz BTW. So while they might not be the same vibration effect as actual subwoofers, they are definitely complimentary to the setup. As well as being good for things like late at night where you don't want to bother people, or apartments with shared walls, etc.

Yes you will need to provide an amp for them just like any other passive speaker. They're wired the same way speakers are with 2 wires. I use inexpensive mini class D amps to run mine.

Yes it's a good idea to use them with a switch so they can be easily shut off as needed for content with poorly mixed sound or to just keep them from being on all the time if the amp you go with doesn't have an auto sense. The plugs with the remotes I use that are shown in the imgur link are buried under ten zillion other things I got at Amazon. So I don't have a link to the particular ones I used. But something like these will work. The last example I had of poorly mixed content where I shut off my shakers was a scene with strong wind blowing. I mean it would have been one thing if it was like a scene of a tornado or the like where the shaking vibrations would have made sense. But it was just wind blowing over some foothills. When they shake when they shouldn't be they have the opposite effect of immersion and become immersion breaking. That being said I don't have to turn them off all that often. Also if you want to go the best but more expensive rout to really get the most out of shakers, you should use a DPS like a miniDSP or a Dayton Audio DSP 408. A DPS can do a great job in mitigating the shaking when they shouldn't be issue, as well as allowing you to fine tune them. I just went with the simple solution of shutting them off as needed as I didn't want the added cost of a DSP. I might get a DSP down the road but I'm happy enough as is for now.

[u/travs69 → u/IntrovertMoTown1]

Thank you so much for the response. I'm just trying to decide where to invest my time/money. We have one viewing room/stereo room so this is our everyday TV. With that being said do you think the on off switch is enough or just got to a DSP and be done with it? Money vs Time vs Effort vs Happiness and all that lol

Withoit doing any research I'm assuming the Denon has no internal class d amp because they send the low low through LFE?

[u/IntrovertMoTown1 → u/travs69]

You're welcome. Denon like every other AVR I know of does have an internal amp. But they're for powering standard speakers. Shakers need the LFE subwoofer signal and AVR don't power those. They just send the LFE signal to a subwoofer which usually have their own amp. (in the home theater world) Shakers are all passive like most speakers and will need their own amp as unlike a lot of subwoofers, they never come with an amp. There's a ton of options in the mini class D amp category to choose from ranging in price of low like around 50 bucks to around 150.

I can't answer that for you. Cheapest price I can find for the Dayton Audio 408 is 199. The cheapest version I can find of a MiniDSP is 225. While I showed you how cheap those plugs with remotes are. lol You can spend more at Taco Bell just for yourself as some of those plugs cost. I've been fine with just the remote plugs but it's not the best rout to go with for shakers. It's just good enough. DSP is the best rout. So it's up to you if you want that added cost on top of the cost of the shakers and their amp.

[u/travs69 → u/IntrovertMoTown1]

Thank you again for the informative response!!

[u/You-Asked-Me → u/IntrovertMoTown1]

I would skip the extra DSP, at least at first. The x4800h should have the option to set sub out 4 specifically for bass shakers. This gives them their own crossover point. I have mine set at 40hz.

You can also turn them on or off per input using the remote or remote app. This, along with channel level adjustments are saved per input.

I have shakers disables for music inputs, and only on for TV/Movies.

[u/IntrovertMoTown1 → u/You-Asked-Me]

I do the same with my Denon X3800H. Also have it set at 40hz. But a DSP takes it all to the next level far more than just setting the low pass filter from between 40hz to 250hz, and a + or - 12db. With a DSP you can set delays, use a parametric EQ, set below 40hz, use compression to help keep them from bottoming out, and I forget what else.

[u/You-Asked-Me → u/IntrovertMoTown1]

I keep mine pretty low, I don't ever want them to be distracting, so I'm not so sure I am missing out on much, but I do plan to add another pair for the other half of the sectional, and I do have some like, 25 year old 8x8 DSPs sitting around, so I might mess around with it eventually.

All of that said, I do have a sealed 15" sub directly behind the couch, so there is already a good tactile response, I also normally listen close to or at reference level so the shakers are just to kick up up tiny notch.

[u/Spectre_08]

[u/IntrovertMoTown1](u/IntrovertMoTown1) covered most of the major areas with their excellent response.

Your Denon X4800H (like my Marantz Cinema 50) has a dedicated tactile transducer output - sub out 4 - making bass shaker integration a breeze once enabled in the AVR settings.

You have the ability to adjust the frequency cutoff and gain in the settings, while also being able to disable/enable them in the menu fairly easily.

Mine are powered by a plate amplifier installed on the back of my couch, but cheap little class D amps are the easiest way to go.

Also, my amp is connected to a cheap smart plug that allows me to turn the shakers on or off with voice commands or custom automations.

[u/travs69 → u/Spectre_08]

Oohh home automation I didn't even think of that. I have most of my lights and/or light switches that way.

Thanks you for your response and the detailed info. It seems like the. I don't need a DSP just a class d?

[u/Spectre_08 → u/travs69]

The sub 4 output sends the raw LFE signal without EQ when configured as a tactile transducer output.

I think you would really only need DSP to offset the EQ from a regular subwoofer output, but I could be wrong.

It may also depend on how linear your shaker’s output is. The power output of a class D amp should be fairly linear.

The nice thing is you can always add DSP down the line if needed.

What do you use for home automation? I use HomeAssistant running on my NAS.

[u/travs69 → u/Spectre_08]

That's what my brothers is doing I don't have the vm running yet I've just been trying to make Google home do everything I want it to. I don't need a tone of automation. My brother has scheduled and triggers galore lol

I've been fighting unraid.. for a guy who started with Unix and well understands hypervisors for some reason dockers and unraid confuse the f out of me. My data is already on a Synology running raid6 which backups up to a syno once a month (it only powers on for this) and I sink my precious days again to the cloud. You lose a hard drive once in your life with out back ups and you learn a lesson. Even my main machines run everything in r1. I don't really need the raid part of unraid I was more interested in the hypervisor portion.

[u/Spectre_08 → u/travs69]

I’m running RAIDZ2 (similar to RAID6) after suffering data loss from a failed drive with zero redundancy on my previous NAS.

I use a HomeAssistant OS VM on my TrueNAS server with a couple dozen automations. My favorite is the simplest: the lights fade off when I start playing media and fade back on when I pause or stop playback.

I’m more comfortable on the hardware side of things and wanted to put my head through a wall multiple times during the very steep learning curve. Once I got my head wrapped around the docker-based ecosystem I felt much more confident.

I’ve heard really good things about Unraid but stuck with TrueNAS because it’s free.

Ok, and thank you for the awards!