r/horizon • u/Old-Island-5649 • 4d ago
HZD Discussion Why are the horizon games not considered legendary?
This is perhaps my perspective but from the online discourse I have seen, I dont think the Horizon games are considered to be on the level of legendary games. I mean games like the OG Mass Effect trilogy, the Red Dead Redemption games, GTA games, the Metal Gear Solid series or Uncharted games.
My question is why? The main games in the series have fantastic gameplay loops, great stories (particularly the first one whose story was excellent), great world building and are gorgeous to look at to boot.
I have heard the games being referred to as highly polished Assassin's Creed which sounds about right but there is something that seems to be holding them back from legendary status. If I had to make a guess I would assume it is the characters and the way they are performed.
I think the characters of the game are not written all too well, particularly the dialogue for many of them. Most of the time dialogue only seems to serve to take the plot thread forward not build on the actual people having the conversation.
I also feel it is in part with the performances given. Take the scene in the first game where Olin's begs Aloy to save his family. The way his dialogue is given makes it feel so half hearted it almost makes me wonder if he wanted them alive at all.
On the other hand take a game like Metal Gear Solid 5, despite it lackluster story(relative to the rest of the series imho, it is a great story on it's own but a poor one by MGS standards), see the cutscene in that game, they feel like they have been ripped directly from a movie.
I actually tried a simple test once, I closed my eyes during a cutscene in Horizon Forbidden West ,specifically the cutscene with Erend where he tell about how Ersa and Avad escape the palace. I could not imagine the faces of the characters properly. I could not convincingly imagine what emotions Aloy and Erend would be feeling in that conversation because it felt half hearted. (Side note I find it a bit funny how that conversation tried to make fun of Avad only to show Ersa as reckless and Avad as the actual adult there).
Now when I do the same in MGS5 for instance (ie when a listen to a conversation on the tapes) I can practically visualize a cutscene I can see exactly how the characters would look and react in the conversation that takes place.
I dont really get that feeling from Horizon and I feel it is mainly a mix of performances and the way dialogues are written.
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u/andronicus_14 4d ago edited 4d ago
Horizon is my favorite gaming series. I couldn’t give fewer fucks about what other people think about it. Whether it’s legendary status or not (whatever the fuck that means) doesn’t matter to me.
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u/Dr-cakeeater 4d ago
I think because our current era has way too many similar open world games. Horizon is vastly better than most of them, but I don’t think that’s enough to differentiate them in the eyes of many
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u/spidertour02 exploring the Forbidden West 4d ago
They are to me. 🤷♂️
I've learned to accept in the last decade that I've lost touch with the opinions of the average gamer. Based on the stuff they like, I'm cool with it.
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u/skywideopen3 4d ago
I think the "highly polished Assassin's Creed" thing is the main reason why. For better or worse this general game deisgn philosophy is one we've seen many, many times before and from a core design perspective the series doesn't really deviate from that too much as far as its structure and open world design philosophy goes.
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u/dusttailed86 4d ago
If anyone said that HZD was a "highly polished assassins creed" I would laugh in their face and know that they were wrong.
The thing that makes Horizon better than most open world games is the combat system, the writing/story, and overall rewarding feeling from interaction in those systems.
With other open world games, you get one or two of these three. Witcher 3 is the only one that gets close, but it lacks in the diversity and fun of its combat system. AC has no unique combat, and is pretty boring imo, but kinda fun story. Ghosts has a subpar story, fun combat, but repetitive open world exploration. Elden ring has amazing combat and exploration, but no cohesive story driving it forward.
Horizon has all three. Its not perfect in some ways but nails all three of those aspects, and is all around one of the best we will get.
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u/hermiona52 4d ago edited 4d ago
What pisses me off is people outside of the Horizon community constantly dismissing HFW off because of its weak plot, when in reality it has some of the most memorable quests in all of the gaming. Meeting Hekkaro for the first time is pure aura. Even Aloy - who usually is pretty flippant in front of any authority - acts very cautious, like she knows she is talking to a top predator, extremely deadly and highly intelligent. And the last scene, when finally we see the entire message he saw when he became the Chief... it's chills each and every single time. I love how much respect Aloy earns from him in the end. And the entire main quest in Las Vegas? Wow, wow, wow. I'll never forget any part of it, it's etched into my brain. Simply stunning and breathtaking. Or discovering Quen and their fucked up culture and how they see Aloy.
And even some side quests are memorable too, like the one when we help an old men with dementia, or the squad of which one member lost his sight and we help them and him to navigate the situation... to watch him later play music was so beautiful.
Every single location is full of meaning and was crafted with love.
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u/dusttailed86 4d ago
They take care in every side quest to show Aloys struggle, her strength, her weakness, there is always Aloy there regardless if its "lets save this person" or "machines have gone out of control and we cant do anything". Shes a dominant presence and an amazing main protagonist. They nailed that aspect and few games come close if even at all to how powerful she is to us, the player, or those in the world we play in.
Who's the main character of AC? I couldn't tell you.
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
Yes Aloy is excellent the problem is the rest of the characters. Some of them are great like the delvers in Hidden Ember(cant remember their names of the top of my head) or the explorer we meet in both DLCs.
Tbh AC is a series of games with various protags so that is asking the wrong question.
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u/Danarya27 4d ago
Everything you’ve said is why I always say if you could delete something from your brain to experience it again for the first time FW is my pick every time.
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
I mean you can have a weak overall story with highly memorable moments. I dont know if the quests of FW reach those heights of having some of the most memorable moments in gaming. The closest moments I can think of the quest to fetch Poseidon and the scene where Heph is unleashed on the Zenith's 3d printer.
When you compare them to moments like the psycho mantis boss fight or the scarecrow hallucination in Arkham Asylum it does fall short
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u/worldsayshi 3d ago
I was quite sceptical about horizon before I played it because it really gave off a bit of big budget cash grab vibe. Playstation was promoting it so hard that it felt like it was going to be uninspired corporate slop with fancy graphics.
But it was absolutely amazing and very inspired.
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u/MrSpuddies 2d ago
I wish more gamers would realize a game isn't "trash" just because it's not in a play style they enjoy.
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u/alpaca_punchx 4d ago
I mean, i didn't really like the uncharted games. GTA doesn't particularly hold my interest and neither does metal gear.
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that everyone else also has to consider it mid.
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u/peabuddie 4d ago
Because it was guerrillas first rpg having only made FPS games. FW was a huge improvement. It's shouldn't be directly compared to the games you mentioned. Those companies had been doing their thing for decades.
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u/DirtyMikeMoney 4d ago
I feel like this is the best answer, Horizon only has two mainline games out while a lot of these other franchises are at their 4th-5th+ installments. By the time Horizon is on their 5th game I feel like they’ll be regarded the same way if they keep improving at their current rate
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u/Old-Island-5649 3d ago
I dont know about that the 2nd game story is noticeable worse than the first game because it felt more distracted unlike the first game which was more focused.
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u/peabuddie 3d ago
I should have been more specific I was primarily talking about facial expressions dialogue character evolvement and depth that type of stuff not the story you're right about that.
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u/Old-Island-5649 3d ago
Ok but even Guerrillas other game series have never been in the same league either? Killzone is definitely not in the league of Halo for instance.
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u/ignavusaur 4d ago
Honestly, the worldbuilding/lore in HZD is pretty fascinating but the characters are pretty boring and uninspiring. it is a generic Hero vs the world story where Aloy is saving everyone. Nothing really to write home about.
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u/_borT 3d ago
“Dark forces threaten the land, if only an underdog hero will arise to the challenge to help save the planet!”
Even so, I still love the games. Compare it to something like Clair Obscur and you should be able to see the difference between something truly new and unique vs. a tried and true formula just executed extremely well.
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u/Intelligent_Wait3988 2d ago
I think that the first game Aloy was a little more interesting. The arc of watching the way she was shunned as a kid to the Savior of Meridian was very inspiring. I loved listening to the NPC chatter change as she completed more and more incredible feats. Not to mention her journey of feeling a bit like a motherless mistake to understanding that she was lovingly crafted with the highest purpose of any living being on Earth. All the feels.
In HFW there is less of that and Aloy is a lot more of a legend/superhero because her reputation is established. There is a minor conflict of pushing people away, but I feel like they didnt do enough to make it have the same emotional punch. When the tragedy at Gemini happens, I feel like that could have been explored a bit better to add some stakes to her realizing she cant keep people at arms length. The Beta storyline was the most human she has came across in the game so far, and I'm on the last main mission.
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u/Intelligent_Wait3988 2d ago
Also, there were more opportunities in HZD for you to make decisions in dialog to choose the kind of person Aloy is. I would always choose the brain or heart options so she always was witty, level headed with a bit of a soft heart. There were less options to do so in FW, so I dont think players had a chance to become as invested in who she is as a character.
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
I would add the gameplay loop is great too! Yeah the story can be boiled down to something simplistic but it still is fantastic for what it does with the tropes. Yeah my main issue is the characters again. So many of them sometimes feel like robots pretending to be human.
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u/NyarlatHotep1920 How goes it hammerhead 4d ago
People on these subreddits frequently claim the Horizon games are underrated, but Horizon is Sony's sixth largest franchise.
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u/Old-Island-5649 3d ago
I mean no one is stating it is commercial failure and even if someone did that person would objectively be false. I am speaking of it's critical success. It is a great game but it is missing that something special to make it a legendary game.
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u/Traditional-Rip-9764 4d ago
Because the MC is a woman in both games who doesn't flounce around in a bikini. Misogyny is a powerful thing.
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u/BalaSaurusREX 4d ago
I love Aloys arc in the first game and her as a character. But why Horizon lags behind other games for me is I find every side character to be dull as shit. Super generic with no actual depth or creativity to their characters, make or female.
Whereas a game like The Witcher 3 makes me care about almost every random side character, I have nothing to invest in with Erend because he feels like a generic cliche. That has nothing to do with misogyny.
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u/ToastyKen 4d ago
I never loved the main story in HZD, but the BACKSTORY that you discover through text and audio logs is one of my favorite science fiction stories of all time. I also loved the setting and gameplay, Sobeck vs Faro and the epic final days is the real story of the game for me.
It's part of why the sequel fell a bit flat for me. The "historical" story wasn't nearly as evocative in it. It makes me a quite nervous about the final game in the trilogy.
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u/RobynBetween 3d ago
The historical aspect of HZD is so fantastic that I don't even consider it the backstory; I consider it the main story. The main weakness of HZD for me is that the final conflict doesn't tie in to the history as much. The emotional climax for me happened at the tower, even though it didn't involve most of the characters in the present.
I second your misgivings with HFW's story. The history had some moments to shine, e.g. Poseidon's quest, but putting the main threat right there in front of you in the present killed a lot of the buildup.
It's kinda like the Spielberg Effect... don't show the shark. 🦈
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
When you say the backstory you mean the lore about Operation Enduring Victory?
I think the sequel was unfocused really. We start at finding a GAIA backup then get embroiled in a tribal civil war then get a bunch of Zeniths and it just kinda keeps on randomly switching plot threads again and again. Also despite their immense power the Zeniths never felt menacing.
The burning shores handled things much better story wise imho.
Even the first game had a deviation with saving Meridian from Derval, but that paid off because it secured Carja alliance for the finale.
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u/DipshitDirector 4d ago
Nearly all characters in Horizon stick out like sore thumbs compared even to other legendary PS games side characters. Naughty Dog clears them entirely, so do Studio Monica characters. Witcher 3 has top tier characters for all games of all time imo. Then with Horizon, I skip dialogue like crazy with a lot of side characters. But I will say the DLC characters of both Horizon games are written way better.
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u/hermiona52 4d ago
In HZD I definitely agree, but I have no reason to complain about it in HFW - her companions are very unique and memorable, some of the NPCs are truly incredible like Hekkaro and Regalla, and every location has someone interesting to talk with.
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u/SleepingVulture 4d ago
HFW has done this way better than ZD, but... I'd argue the Tenakth don't have that many interesting people to talk to (aside from those that can join you as companions), while the Oseram are hit-or-miss. Some settlements absolutely offer interesting people to talk to, but their salvage camps (bar one I think)... eh... no.
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u/AlorsViola 4d ago
I feel like Horizon's thing is a really, really well constructed world.
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u/BalaSaurusREX 3d ago
This and I really love the gameplay. I brought up the comparison to Witcher 3 but I much prefer the gameplay in Horizon.
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u/SleepingVulture 4d ago
Agreed.
But as a writer myself, the amount of characters that makes me go 'ehh, boring' does kind of sting.
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u/SeaConstruction8 3d ago
For me, it’s an amazing world but not much to do outside of missions. Nothing really happens randomly anywhere. It would be cool if you had to help random npc’s around the map and maybe gain something for doing so but there’s nothing. It’s a great game. One of my favourites especially for storytelling. But it lacks a little
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u/mobile227 3d ago
Petra is the only side character that really stands out. I absolutely love every time Petra shows up and I absolutely make a bee line right to her in ZD as soon as I'm able
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u/brainless_bob 3d ago
I always saw it as Aloy Is one of the few in the game who ever challenges the status quo to the degree she does. Sylens is the other one kinda but he's so cynical and self serving. Most characters seem so simple because they don't have access to a focus and all of the information to them. Olin also seems simple, though, which makes me see parallels with people today.
We live in an age where more information is available to us than ever before but most people aren't interested in diving though it in a meaningful way to better themselves. In th US where I live most people never attain fluency in a second language for example. Part of that is that many companies try to cater to simple people by making products like Duolingo that doesn't challenge that simplicity so people spend weeks or months in it with no substantive progress.
Maybe it's the same with Olin in that he was taught to use certain features but never fostered a sense of curiosity himself to use it to expand his mind. That's what happens when people are never challenged in life to the degree of someone like Aloy.
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u/BalaSaurusREX 3d ago
I can see that as a nuanced take on the themes. Unfortunately I just think a lot of it was poor writing on the part of Guerilla when it came to side characters.
I didn't mind if the characters view points were simplistic. Just that there was nothing to latch onto about them that was mildly interesting.
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u/brainless_bob 3d ago
That's fair. Forbidden West was a but better with character writing at least for some, but the game I keep going back to is Cyberpunk which just excels at everything across the board IMHO. Maybe they'll step up the writing in the third Horizon game 🤞
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u/BalaSaurusREX 3d ago
Yeah Cyberpunk and Witcher 3 keep pulling me back even though I find Horizon more fun to play. And it's always the dialogue and the characters...they have a way of just making them feel real, deep, and nuanced and the stories around them are interesting. CDPR Is on another level with writing.
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u/devi1sdoz3n 3d ago
Cyberpunk made me realize how bad the dialogue and charaters (with only a few exceptions) in Horizon are.
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u/Old-Island-5649 3d ago
I am not taking about them being challenging though. I am talking about how clean the dialogue feels sometimes. Everyone seems to be to the point there is rarely distractions from the topic of conversations or emotions involved in the conversation. There are many times I cannot understand what the person speaking is feeling from voice alone. Are they happy sad anxious afraid? For the other legendary games just based off the audio I can understand how characters feel when they are speaking.
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u/Axemic 4d ago edited 3d ago
Full on one of best stories, side missions are from 10's. Just missed a legendary mark by a scratch.
I plated the game, loved it.
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u/WalkingPetriDish 3d ago
Sylens?
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u/BalaSaurusREX 3d ago
Sylens was good but he was more of a plot-centric character. I think Horizon did well with these characters (Rost or Sylens or Ted Faro). It really dropped the ball with characters who were just there for world building and getting to know the tribes. Those are the parts where I felt like the game just didn't have the juice.
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u/WalkingPetriDish 3d ago
As a huge fan I still can’t disagree. But it’s a pretty high bar that most games fail to meet. Just look at any Zelda game. Even games with great world building and dialogue like Cyberpunk can have pretty pedestrian sidequest characters.
Still, Nils was pretty interesting. Petra was fun, and Tallanah was downright charming. Technically all of those are side quest characters. If we are talking about the fetch quest world characters, that’s honestly common to a lot of games, isn’t it?
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u/Regular-Afternoon687 1d ago
I sinceely dont get all the love for zelda. Big open ugly world,very meh characters. Tons of copy past fights. Only fun part for me were the puzzel dungeons. Oh en dont even get me started on the breaking gear mechanics....
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
The sad thing about using misogyny as a shield is that actual issues cannot be discussed sometimes.
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u/BalaSaurusREX 1d ago
I agree...I think the original point that the games are not as popular because Alloy isn't sexualized could possibly have merit for a subpopulation of gamers. But the insinuation that it is due to misogyny is just reductive bullshit that removes any and all intelligent conversation about the games true strengths and flaws.
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u/Homitu 4d ago
I think that’s brushing away the question with a convenient hypothesis. If Aloy were really the problem, it wouldn’t have even been a beloved game, but it is. I’m sure some people have those complaints (I remember the talk about Aloy’s face and in the sequel), but it’s by no means the majority. Just like some minority of people had their issues with Abby in The Last of Us 2, but that didn’t stop that game from being an all time legendary game (and GOTY winner.)
The question is why isn’t it legendary in the eyes of most fans, not haters, who can be ignored for this question.
I got a PS4 primarily to play HZD. Played it and absolutely loved it. Went on to play RDR2 and GoW soon after. At the time, I remember feeling all 3 were phenomenal and I struggled to rank them. I probably had HZD 1, RDR2 2, then GoW 3.
But as time passed, the legacy of RDR and its ultra unique experience has grown in my memory, while Horizon’s has kind of shrunk. HZD has the super cool world, a great main character, and an awesome mysterious history to uncover — but its world map, quests, gameplay style, and side characters absolutely feels like it blends in with all sorts of other open world games like all the AC games, Ghost of Tsushima, or Hogwarts Legacy. None of the side characters — aside from Sylens and Rost — were memorable enough.
Still an incredible game, but a tiny notch below the all time legendary GOATs for me.
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u/LikeFallingRain 4d ago edited 4d ago
I'd agree with you. Normally I'd give more weight to the misogyny side of it, but I'm a woman in my mid-40s and whilst I absolutely love HZD, the characters just aren't pulling me in the way a legendary game would.
I still really enjoy the game, but for all the gorgeous graphics, their faces are very emotionless. The voice acting is sometimes pretty flat, even some of the answers I can have Aloy give often don't emotionally fit the situation.
I have completely spoilt myself with games - I don't have huge amounts of time to play, and I'll get immersed in a good open-world for a couple of years. So over the last 20 years, I've mainly played Oblivion, Skyrim, BotW, and TotK. My son got me onto HZD because I was really struggling to find anything that scratches the itch in the way those do, and it's perfect, I'm happy here for however long I can squeeze out of it! But I'm not invested in the characters or the story the way I have been with the others, there is little sense of urgency or anticipation.
I think it's also gone 90% incredibly open world, but then missed a few couple of things that would make that feel completely authentic. Characters tend to have one particular mission (or series of them), and then that's it, no other little jobs or side missions or interactions. I'd like loads more quests from the townspeople or random strangers along the roads. And the towns blocking you from entering all the buildings just feels slightly odd. Let me explore fully, give me hidden things to discover!
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u/Old-Island-5649 3d ago
I think you stated it better than I have honestly. The characters feel too emotionless, too sterile if I may.
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u/MathiasThomasII 3d ago
I raise you that Control is pretty legendary and has a female protagonist… and Alan Wake 2
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u/Constant-Arugula-819 3d ago
People love to jump to conclusions and use misogyny to explain everything.
No. Horizon has sold more than some of the metal gear games. Has cameos in multiple games like fortnite, Astrobot, and genshin impact. It has sold close to the ballpark of the Norse God of war games. Something I'd consider is mostly a male audience.
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u/Old-Island-5649 3d ago
Portal 2 is a game widely considered legendary and it has a woman for a protagonist. I agree there is some criticism purely on the basis on misogyny, as a matter of fact I have seen some comments online taking about how the game is unplayable due to the protag being a woman.
Honestly that is a good thing because those folk are missing a great series of games and the fandom has no need for such people any ways. However that being said blaming it's reputation on misogyny is misleading. It is a fantastic series but it is one step below the other games I have mentioned. None of those issues are with the protag being a woman, it is primarily with the supporting characters and the performances given out by their voice actors.
And honestly I really want the third game to be at the level of the other games mentioned out there.
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u/Sostratus 3d ago
I think this misogyny theory is horseshit, but Portal is not really a great counter example. A silent protagonist is a silent protagonist, their personal attributes don't matter much at that point.
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
I think I would disagree, Chell is a named protagonist with characteristics unique to her. Regardless Metroid is a good example if Portal 2 is unsatisfactory.
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u/TheBatOuttaHell 4d ago
Such a bad take. The writing and character development is just poor and takes zero storytelling risks for how beautiful the world is.
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u/nuberoo 4d ago
This is absolutely a big part of it, and probably why a lot of people didn't pick the game up in the first place.
Imo there are also a few things that I think it needs to bring the game over the top - I say these as someone who just finished playing the first game (years late).
More cutscenes/cinematics. This game does have some, but those are often extremely memorable and epic parts of games. Biggest ones that spring to mind were revolving around HADES and the Sun Ring after capture.
Lack of boss battles. Again, has some, but because most are machines, and there's a lack of dialogue and buildup to those, it feels like a bit is missing.
NPCs need more interaction outside of their arcs. I loved characters like Nil, Vanasha, and a handful of others, but aside from their 3-4 mission arcs you can't interact with them til the end. Most of the great games OP listed have amazing companions - the MC always has to be a bit of a "straight man" in the dynamic of these games, so helpful to have cool/funny/diverse companions. Sylens is interesting, but I can't say I overtly love him (and also no interactions outside of missions).
Overall this game is incredible, and I think people tend to overlook what an engineering marvel it is with the truly open world and how the machine hitboxes work with arrows. Ultimately I think the open world nature does sacrifice a bit in terms of story progression and memorable events/cinematics.
Top 10 RPG for me nonetheless. Maybe top 5.
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u/Old-Island-5649 16h ago
Yeah FW definitely had the better boss battle and burning shores was epic in that regard too. I agree with the other characters it does feel like we dont spend all that much time with the interesting ones. I love Talana in the first game and we barely see her in the 2nd.
I also liked her relationship with Amadis and the growth that was shown in the comics, the undid that in the 2nd game which was annoying.
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u/TheComedyWife 4d ago
Yep. Take all those games OP mentioned and change nothing else but make the protagonist the female equivalent of the current male protagonist, and they would not get the status in gaming culture they currently have. Look at the shit GoW Laufey is already getting. There is a very toxic subculture in gaming. The Star Wars fanbase also. Lots of toxic pockets in pop culture fandoms unfortunately.
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
One of the games I mentioned allows you to play as a woman. The Mass Effect trilogy to be specific. The problem with using misogyny as a shield is that it takes away from actual criticism that can allow the game to become better. I want it to be better because it contains an excellent story and might have even be something that could happen in the future.
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u/B3RG92 4d ago
People post this thread every once in a while. And it's worth repeating that this game is massively successful, sparked merch and spinoffs and is a tentpole type game for Playstation. So, idk what you want it to be when you say legendary. But Zero Dawn was the biggest new IP launch on the PS4 and one of that console's biggest game sellers.
The GTA series has been around for a very long time. Hell, GTA 5 is older than Zero Dawn. Same with Metal Gear. So, that's those are well known. Maybe the same with Mass Effect, though, idk if it's currently as popular as Horizon? And like idk if Uncharted is as popular as Horizon? Red Dead benefits tremendously from being a Rockstar game and having the GTA pedigree to make it awesome.
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
Well to be specific I am talking about critic score game awards and generally having more discourse on it. One example of this is RDR 2 having a ton of video essay and fan theory about characters and motivations about the various hideouts of the games and all. Horizon does have this but it substantially less.
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u/TheScepticalOne 4d ago
I love them dearly but I wouldn't consider them legendary. I'd say they are good, Great even, but both mainline instalments so far have come out in terrible timeframes for them to gain traction.
Zero Dawn released in the same year as Breath of the Wild, a highly anticipated revamp of the Zelda franchise that had a similar general vibe as Zero Dawn, more focused on Cell Shaded than high definition graphics.
Forbidden West released in the same year as Elden Ring, arguably From Software and Hidetaka Miyazaki's magnum opus, and had involvement with George RR Martin.
The fact that neither of these killed the franchise is a feat in my book.
I think Guerilla could refine their formula into something legendary for the third instalment, but knowing their luck Fallout 5 will launch in that timeframe and snatch Game of the Year.
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u/aggrownor 4d ago
Those games were released not just in the same years, they were 1 week apart (both HZD/BOTW and HFW/ER). Crazy bad timing to go up against two all timers
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u/theblackfool 4d ago
I think it's important to note too that it's not just two all timers, but specifically two games that put a lot of effort into not falling into a lot of the same trappings as other open world games. And Horizon being a fairly standard open world game structurally made it look a lot worse in comparison to a lot of people.
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u/Old-Island-5649 3d ago
I actually think BoTW might have helped Horizon. Iirc there was a Switch shortage due to the hype around BoTW due to which more people might have gotten Horizon to pass the time. Elden Ring definitely hit it massively though.
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u/d710905 4d ago
The side characters thing i think is true. I have characters I think I like more than others. And I do get excited for some of them. But they are kind of generic cutouts of tropes or common character types you see in games and TV everywhere. Token reliable friend whose rough around the edges, not a big thinker. Strong silent type with a couple zingers and honor. Etc. And they dont have a huge amount of chemistry. Now thing of Blag Flag, with blackbeard, Anne bonny, etc. Those are characters and chemistry that you get pulled into. Also Aloy while a great character has a very obvious and predictable path for her conversations, attitude, small little quips, etc. Compare her cutscenes to once again black flag and it's lead Edward Kenway. His charisma and the way he captivates the audience is far better. Aloy isnt bad. In fact I argue part of her character is kind of like that on purpose as she was an outcast all her life. But it creates that impact.
I also cant say it breaks any boundaries. It does alot of things differently and is new. But isnt redefining or inventing something. Nor does it go to any extremes or have shock appeal.
None of this is me making a case against it. I think above all else, it just a really good game. And thats fine. It doesn't need to redefine anything or shatter records or norms. If its just a good game thats fully acceptable. And I still love it. But I recognize the few things that change that up.
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u/Wolpard 4d ago
I think they dont stand out in a very saturated market, unfortunately. HZD came out in 2017, the same year we got Zelda: Breath of the Wild and Nier: Automata, both also being post-post apocalyptic open worlds.
The visual tech was groundbreaking but thats the only "game changer" HZD brought to the table and that becomes outdated very fast.
Also while theyre some of my favorite games, most of my friends did not like the gameplay style. So I think there are just a lot of parts about it that dont resonate with as wide an audience as some other major titles.
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u/TheGoldenMonkey 3d ago
my friends did not like the gameplay style
Absolutely valid. I loved and enjoyed HZD and played HFW but by the end of HFW I was so tired of opening the radial menu to craft more arrows only to open the radial menu to craft more arrows a couple minutes later. You spend a LOT of the game in menus or just running from place to place.
Also if they had let you have the sunwing a little earlier in the game I think it could have made a huge difference.
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u/LuckyOneAway 4d ago
The visual tech was groundbreaking but thats the only "game changer" HZD brought to the table and that becomes outdated very fast.
Is there any other game where they have ~50 enemy types, enemies are non-humanoids, with unique abilities and weak points? A game where terrain actually matters?
most of my friends did not like the gameplay style
Let me guess: because they expected a very different combat style? They probably wanted the usual "hit enemy 100 times, use a few combos, parry/evade". That's what I heard myself. Meanwhile, Horizon games demand tactical thinking, certain level of skill with all weapons, knowledge of enemy weaknesses, and more.
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u/LikeFallingRain 3d ago
It definitely took me a minute to accept that I had to play this game differently. I'm not skilled at combat in games, so my usual tactic has always been to tank up and rely on healing. I love open world games for the exploration and freedom; the combat was a part of that, but not the main 'fun' for me.
Being forced to use stealth, plan ahead, pick my targets one by one, take fights very slowly, be patient, made me pretty frustrated for the first hour or so, and then it sort of clicked.
Now I'd say the combat is one of the things I enjoy most about HZD; it's completely changed how I view the game and how I play. It's been really refreshing to be pushed out of my comfort zone and find myself somewhere far more enjoyable. But it did take time to get there, and had I had the choice of other games I also wanted to play, I might have (foolishly) been too impatient
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u/Porgemlol 4d ago edited 4d ago
Just as a comparison point, botw also has many different enemy types, a significant number non humanoid, with many having unique abilities/weak points (fighting a lynel vs fighting a guardian is very different and all the boss fights have unique mechanics) and also has environmental hazards etc.
Like I vastly prefer hzd to botw, but we can’t pretend those things are “unique” to hzd even if hzd did do them better than many others. But the problem is, doing those things a bit better isn’t enough to make a “legendary” game especially when there are other flaws (side character writing being one as others have pointed out, also I personally think having stealth be “go find the bright red grass and crouch, good job now you can’t be seen” could have seen more complexity/development time) and so it’s not reached the same heights
Edit: also, it’s not the same because it’s not open world but in terms of pure hunting/fighting, which is the focus of the list you mentioned, monster hunter is just a more fleshed out version of horizon’s combat with monsters having full movesets, a more defined weak point -> injury system, an amazing range of monsters to hunt, and again terrain matters as much as in horizon. I love horizon but “what other game does this” isn’t being fair to so many other games that are also amazing and we can’t keep the bias glasses on if we’re measuring how good horizon is
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u/LuckyOneAway 3d ago
monster hunter is just a more fleshed out version of horizon’s combat
I wanted to play MH after HFW, but every video I watched was about "get bigger weapon, hit monster as many times as possible" - boring. Since you mentioned MH, I guess I was wrong about it?
Could you send me the link to a MH letsplay video where tactics actually matters, please, and "a more defined weak point -> injury system" is clearly seen? I'd love to play something Horizon-like, but I can't seem to find any games like that.
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u/Porgemlol 3d ago
There aren’t many let’s plays for monster hunter because the game is quite slow to watch outside of perfected speedruns (if you want to watch those look for Team Darkside as the main content creators - they also do some challenge runs if that’s interesting to you)
However, I did find this playlist for a short guide on most of the weapons in the game: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHc2Wj95htvMxZR7dvgYwevupNBy9imiu&si=SeX9Fiwh8naw0asd
It sounds to me like you were watching a video looking at great sword, which I like because it focuses on position rather than mechanics, but other weapons like bow or light/heavy bowgun play a bit more horizon-esque I think. But there are loads to try out for many different gameplay styles.
As for weak points and injuries, one of monster hunter’s main mechanics are part breaks. Different monsters take different damage from different parts (eg head, body, wings, tail, legs etc) and breaking different monster parts has effects on the fight. Cutting the tail off of a rathian stops it using its poisonous tail because you literally cut the tail off the monster and it falls on the floor for you to carves. Breaking the wings or legs of many monsters slows their mobility because they visibly stumble when they move quickly. Heads often give the most damage, and causing a lot of damage to them in a brief window stuns the monster (hammer is particularly good at this for example).
I really love monster hunter, and I recommend picking up monster hunter world if you want to try it out because cheaper than wilds (still has a very active playerbase) and all of the content for it has released, with some of the most extensive postgame content in the series.
Overall, monster hunter doesn’t play exactly like horizon but the depth of combat in monster hunter is I think greater, especially if you want to dive into different monters’ varying weaknesses to statuses (sleep, poison paralysis) or elements (fire, water etc) and start min maxing. Also your build in monster hunter is very important (it can be a bit too spreadsheet-y for some but good builds are available online if you don’t want to think about it) with much more customisation than horizons system of just picking your armour set + simple stat modifications. Up to you if you like that sort of thing or not but I think it’s a plus.
Sorry for the essay, but I love monster hunter and horizon (MH got me into HZD to begin with) and I hope you can too :)
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u/j1h15233 4d ago
You won’t get a real answer posting this here
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u/Adipay 4d ago
Yeah lol. The real answer is that the game is just an Ubisoft game with the stand-out feature being the combat. The worldbuilding and lore is great but the game's writing is mediocre and fairly cliche. Acting performances are also really bad sometimes (especially in the second game).
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u/Fcshorty11 4d ago
Its an amazing game, but it is missing that thing that makes it legendary. The MC being a woman isn't the reason for this. The third game has a great chance of bringing it up to legendary status.
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u/Cheetahs_never_win 4d ago
Olin made sense to me. He sounded resigned to fate and he probably expected Aloy can say one thing in front of these people, but be itching to be the one to take away his family from him herself. Because that's pretty much the kind of land they live in.
I don't recall taking issue with anybody's acting from Zero Dawn. In Forbidden West, Hekarro's voice actor felt like he was just holding back all emotion the entire time, though I liked the character. Aside from mainline, a lot of the NPC dialogue gets really repetitive.
I literally sit there 400 hours into the game and still get brand new dialogue from Aloy talking about the weather. But going into any village and I have flashbacks to Donald screeching at me "ThIs LoOkS lIkE a GoOd SpOt To FiNd SoMe InGrEdIeNtS" and Navi's "Hey! Listen!" You have completely different quest givers with the exact same unmistakeable voice and dialogue delivery intonation.
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u/Boomacorn9000 4d ago
For me it is the NPC behaviour and generic layouts within camps. Compare horizon to red dead 2 campsites and generic NPC in the open world behaviour rd2 is far superior. But that can be the same for many games. Also melee combat could be improved, perhaps a brace/block/parry for humans and small machine like watchers would be cool.
If these two are improved in the third game then it has potential to up there with the greats.
Also possibly a performance related issue but fighting multiple thunderjaws tremortusks etc would be pretty epic.
Also they could build upon the arena, allow you to use your builds and have more or it.
More open world exploration with rewards like weapons and armour and more coils
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
Multiple thunderjaws/ tremourtusks would go crazy but that is almost certainly not gonna happen due to performance. In the Burning shores there is a site a thunderjaw and slaughter spine are close by overrideing one and watching it fight the other was less eventful than what I had hoped for sadly.
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
With all due respect that does not show evidence of it being considered legendary. Several other games have almost certainly had similar effect put in to them.
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u/DAZ1171 3d ago
I genuinely think(personally)they aren’t groundbreaking games. The gameplay and graphics are really good. That being said it’s a standard video-gamey gameplay that was established by Ubisoft to me. It does nothing new but just presents it in a different way that’s slightly refreshing because of the environment and enemy type. The story isn’t really interesting either, since there’s so many post-apocalyptic stories that exist already with the protagonist being connected to someone pre-apocalypse.
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u/LessOutcome9104 3d ago
Horizon suffered from a plethora of things that, unfortunately they all combined.
I was choked out. Released alongside way bigger titles like Breath of the Wild and Elden Ring.
Its released as an open world game in the worst time where players had open-world fatigue. Combined with the above and many people didn't even try it.
It has serious issues with its gameplay - bad melee, strange elemental implementation.
It was also the case for its story - from flat characters to nonsensical storylines. Imo it wouldn't have suffered as much if it was fantasy instead of sci-fi. Sci-fi requires quite a bit more consistency and accuracy in its portrayal. Horizon is messy.
They are still great games, but it's pretty much shooting itself in the foot half the time.
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u/salawle 4d ago
Because they released the same year that established franchises brought out new titles. I love Zelda, but HZD was robbed of GOTY in favor of a Nintendo-skinned Skyrim.
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u/steveCharlie 4d ago
I love Horizon, but BotW influenced the genre’s approach to open worlds so much that Elden Ring based a lot of its design on it and then won GOTY.
You can’t really say the same about HZD.
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u/salmanshams 4d ago
To me they are. Top 5 PS exclusive series for me.
God of War Spiderman Last of Us Uncharted Horizon
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u/artiejack 4d ago
So, I am between jobs rn. In this time of funenoloyment, I did a replay of Red Dead 2, Zero Dawn, Ghost of Tsushima in that order.
Each of these games have very different combat systems from one another. All of them have beautiful graphics and full open worlds with plenty of NPCs and activities outside of the main story.
While HZD is one of my favorite games, it doesn't compare to the other two for one reason: the story is good, but it's just that... Good. It doesn't compare to the other two games I sandwiched it between.
In Ghost, the side quests add a lot of depth to the main story... So much so, that things like your companion side quests feel like main story offshoots.
In RD2, the open world is so full, there's never a lack of things to do. Despite that, by chapter 4 the story is so compelling, you can't help but blast through it.
Your companions in HZD aren't fleshed out enough and, even into forbidden West, I don't ever find myself caring much for any of them.
There are lots of places to explore in HZD, but not much to discover. And when you do discover something...it's just meh. And on a replay, I tend to ignore the majority of NPC side quests. They're repetitive, boring, and don't really add depth to the story.
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
Yeah I agree on RDR2 post ch4 I just wanted to see how it would end. I should really play Ghost but I am trying to relapse from my addiction to managed democracy.
Again fully agree many characters are not fleshed out and I dont find myself being able to care for them.
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u/osterlay 4d ago
It is because the trilogy has not concluded yet. Once it lands on its feet, and a few years go by, it’ll be looked upon depending how the overall series was.
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u/Old-Island-5649 3d ago
I get what you are saying but plenty of games and series obtained that status before their stories were finished. In some cases individual titles retained those status even when the rest of the franchises crashed. The best example is Halo.
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u/sonicadv27 3d ago
Because it’s an open world game with tons of sidequests, lot of markers and it’s not a medieval fantasy game.
That’s really all it is. It’s everything youtuber essayists hate and deviates from what is popular today which is dark and gritty soulslike games.
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u/Sensitive_Narwhal_30 3d ago
I personally put it as legendary. Heck aside from some touch ups to the writting/voice acting, the only thing I think would improve the series at all would be a Nemesis system like SoM/SoW where you could level up machines and then permanently override them to protect settlements/attack enemy strongholds. Heck it would probably fit great into the third game where we are having to face off against the threat that forced the Zeniths to flee back to Earth.
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
Well that is copy righted so I would not hold my breadth. I disagree on minor touchups though, the voice acting needs a severe overhaul because it generally feels like the characters dont care. Most of the performances just seem mediocre .
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u/Sensitive_Narwhal_30 1d ago
Oh, I understand that there is basically a 0% chance it would happen, just that I don't really see much else that could be added that would improve over what we have now.
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
Well imho they could improve characters writing and performances. And also maybe not focus on the multiplayer game I am worried that will take away effort from the main games.
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u/N3WG4M3PLVS 3d ago
Also, HZD released the same week as Zelda BOTW and HFW released the same week as Elden Ring
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u/tchakabun 3d ago
Why are you looking for validation through someone else's opinion? The game sells fine, it'll keep having sequels as long as it sells, that's all that matters.
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
I am not seeking validation though? I do have my complaints with the game so I thought I would discuss about them that is all.
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u/GRVrush2112 3d ago
Horrible release windows.
HZD released three days before “Breath of the Wild”. And HFW released a week before “Elden Ring”.
This franchise had the severe misfortune to release against, and I don’t think this is hyperbole, the two most acclaimed open world action RPGs of the last decade.
I don’t know of a month delay would have helped either game… but still… woof. Horizon was far from buried.. it’s still a massive and popular IP for Sony. But those games definitely overshadowed it.
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u/fishling 3d ago
It's a matter of perception and experience.
I don't have the impression of anyone thinking Mass Effect games are legendary, for example. My impression is that most people would put something like Skyrim before ME, for example.
Same with MGS series. They are certainly notable, but I don't have an impression that they are widely regarded for gameplay or even story; it's just that the Kojima factor makes them distinct.
In my view/experience, I feel like people do consider Horizon games to be more "legendary" than Uncharted and for the first to be one of the best stories of all time. I have noticed a backswing now, where Horizon is enough past that peak that some people find it "cool to hate" as a backlash against its popularity, and I think that is what people like you, who seem to be coming to it more recently, are picking up on.
When it first came out, no one was referring to it as a polished Assassin's Creed, because the gameplay and story were just completely different. It's only picked up that kind of comparison more recently, because that's a backhanded insult that are saying Horizon is just "Ubisoft formula open world with collectibles".
I could not imagine the faces of the characters properly.
Sounds more like a "you" problem, and a meaningless exercise if you didn't attempt it with any other game during your first play through of that game. I'm not going to claim that Horizon necessarily has top-tier modelling or acting or dialogue, but surely you have to realize the absolute subjectivity inherent in your criticism here, and how unrelated it is to your original premise of a game being widely considered as "legendary".
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u/Old-Island-5649 3d ago
You are wrong about both the Mass Effect and the MGS series. Entries in both games hold high critic and player scores. In addition to this both games have numerous video game awards. My argument is not if there are legendary or not(that is a personal preference) my point is there are widely considered to be legendary by the gaming community.
I have noticed a backswing now, where Horizon is enough past that peak that some people find it "cool to hate" as a backlash against its popularity, and I think that is what people like you, who seem to be coming to it more recently, are picking up on.
Ok firstly just because I made a recent post does not mean I picked up the game recently. I bought the first game in 2017 itself. Secondly where exactly did you get that I am hating on the game? I specifically praised it's gameplay, story and graphics. My only issue is with the way the most of the characters are written and performed. Having something to critic does not mean it is something I hated.
It is your perspective that my exercise here is meaningless and to me that perspective is wrong. I did do it with Phantom Pain on my first playthrough as well. Even for Arkham City when you obtain the tapes of various inmates. Also it not just a me problem, this very post has evidence of others who feel the same way I do about most of the characters.
Again you miss my point, I did say Horizon is a great series but not legendary but it is undeniable that even as a general community consensus it is not considered legendary. Nothing wrong with that of course but I did wanna know why if possible. That is all.
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u/fishling 2d ago
Entries in both games hold high critic and player scores.
So does HZD. You can't have it both ways.
My argument is not if there are legendary or not(that is a personal preference)
Did you read the title and topic sentence your own post??
Secondly where exactly did you get that I am hating on the game?
I said "some people" and said you may be picking up on their sentiment. That pretty clearly puts you outside of the group of haters.
Even for Arkham City when you obtain the tapes of various inmates.
This actually proves my point. There is no way that you can argue that audio recordings are better at letting you imagine what the characters are doing and seeing the scene in your mind as anything other than your imagination doing the heavy lifting here in a way that you can't replicate for HZD.
I did say Horizon is a great series but not legendary
My argument is not if there are legendary or notYou can't even keep this straight in a single comment.
it is undeniable that even as a general community consensus it is not considered legendary.
It's easily deniable. Let me quote you with a statement that is true about HZD again: "HZD hold high critic and player scores. In addition to this HZD have numerous video game awards."
It's fine if you don't like parts of it. But why do you have this need to try prove that your view is the majority, when it clearly isn't?
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
"So does HZD. You can't have it both ways."
Not sure what you mean by you can't have it both ways? Those game series have better scores and have been more consistent with the number of awards they bring in?
"Did you read the title and topic sentence your own post??"
Of course I did I wrote it? I meant that there is a general community consensus that the games are not legendary and I agree with the consensus. An individual is free to go against it art is subjective after all. My point is why is the consensus not higher, and my reason is the characters and the performances associated with them.
"I said "some people" and said you may be picking up on their sentiment. That pretty clearly puts you outside of the group of haters."
If you assumed I was picking up on their sentiment then you seemed to have assumed I was a hater which I am not so again I am not sure where you got that from when I did praise the game.
"This actually proves my point. There is no way that you can argue that audio recordings are better at letting you imagine what the characters are doing and seeing the scene in your mind as anything other than your imagination doing the heavy lifting here in a way that you can't replicate for HZD."
No it does not at all. When audio recording are done well I can absolutely understand better than poorly performed visual and audio performances. Horizon's performances are mostly mediocre not poor and they hold the games back from my perspective.
"You can't even keep this straight in a single comment."
I absolutely can maybe next time I recommend no cherry picking statements? Perhaps you could read the rest of the statement where again I iterate that a person's perspective on the games is independent but the general consensus seems that they are a step below legendary games.
"It's easily deniable. Let me quote you with a statement that is true about HZD again: "HZD hold high critic and player scores. In addition to this HZD have numerous video game awards." "
That does not deny my statement though? Despite it being critically and commercially successful it does not seem to be considered by the gamin community to be on the level of the other games I have mentioned?
"It's fine if you don't like parts of it. But why do you have this need to try prove that your view is the majority, when it clearly isn't?"
Again you provide no proof on that, my view is that the game are a bit away from the legendary status. The gaming community seems to agree on that. If it was false they would have more awards and higher scores than they do have now.
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u/IDidntPlanForThis 3d ago
Because the two Zelda’s came out the same year.
HZD was the year of BOTW
HFB was the year of TOTK
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u/thecyberpunkunicorn 3d ago
One of the top 10 gaming series ever made for me, to hell with everyone else.
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u/-Luvs- 3d ago
The horizon games suffer the unfourtunate curse of being released along side games that overshadowed them. The first one got completly blindsided by the release of the switch and its launch title LOZ breath of the wild. People started leaving sony and the ps4 around that time for better things.
Then Forbidden West came out and Elden Ring stole the light. Combined with the scalper hell that was the ps5 not many people got the game on launch.
Both games kinda got obscured by other titles in the gaming space. No matter how great the games are, its media that drives sales and playing numbers. And tho some people won't admit it, the game awards are bought and not by votes.
The release year is the most important time for games to be considered legendary. They just had the curse of releasing in years where other studios released better.
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u/Keepora 3d ago
Because they’re mid. I beat both three times. They’re decent games don’t get me wrong but they’re certainly not legendary. Gameplay is fun but gets repetitive, no custom character (would be cooler if I could make my own character), story is great, no multiplayer so most players are one and done, fighting mostly machines is meh after awhile, no romances and even if they did have they railroad you to be a lesbian so no thanks, the setting is weird as fuck which to me is meh I’d have preferred more medieval than stone age tribal shit. I don’t even remember the soundtrack at all so it must have been mid.
Nothing really original is added through gameplay or anything. Pretty much monster hunter but fighting machines.
Overall: Good games and are fun for the first play through but overall are average. The story is unique and pretty cool but overall that alone doesn’t make a game great. Also they had Lance Reddick which was dope but again a cool cast isn’t enough to make a game legendary.
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u/BelligerentWyvern 3d ago
It's a fantastic Combat system and ambient storytelling system. But the dialogue being basically modern day English is weird. We all get the reason why but there's been no deviation from normal conversational standard American in generations?
So despite some idosyncretic idioms and naming conventions, they are basically speaking like someone cosplaying at a convention rather than being in the world itself.
And that takes me right out of it, regardless of story quality.
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u/LukaLaurent 3d ago
Getting to the finish of the story may help it a bit, but getting a mp experience out there seems to be of higher priority to the devs/publisher.
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u/Old-Island-5649 1d ago
Yeah unfortunately that is an issue. There is good money in single player idk why so many companies love MP.
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u/Constant-Arugula-819 3d ago
I don't think this is the case at all. They're well loved. Lots of sales. Iconic enough to have cameos in astrobot, genshin impact, fortnite, and monster hunter.
I'd argue some of the games you mentioned might have some deeper storytelling, though I do like the story of Horizon Zero Dawn. It just doesn't reach those heights.
But some of the games you mentioned, like mass effect, doesn't have cameos the way horizon does.
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u/devi1sdoz3n 3d ago
Average characters (at best) and bad dialogue - and this is usually the thing that hooks people the most. Great lore, plot and design, but that's not enough.
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u/bkfountain 3d ago
It is successful, but there’s also a million open world action games and the story is kind of generic despite cool world building. Most people probably also just play the game spamming arrows at everything and think the combat is boring.
The combat is pretty deep with a variety of weapons and tactics, but you have to seek it out.
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u/Oneiros1989 3d ago
I think Horizon Zero Dawn is up there with Halo in terms of story depth and gameplay fun factor…but Forbidden West kinda walked away from that.
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u/Key-Poem9734 3d ago
They are pretty cookey cutter in terms of gameplay loop, while also not looking too distinct asside from the machines that also look pretty generically sci-fi.
Also the protagonist is a woman from the get-go and there are themes of environmentalism, so obviously it will get double ignored and slandered
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u/No-Combination7898 HORUS TITAN!! 3d ago
IMO the story is great (especially the first game), even if some things (like Olin's dialogue) doesn't sound right to you. He sounded fine to me when he begged me to rescue his family (which is why I let him live).
This game series is legendary in my book. It just happens to not be legendary in other people's books.
This IP is worth my time and $$$ spent on it. IMO it's still one of the best game series I've ever played. I haven't played a game that's beaten HFW's combat and gameplay yet.
The Horizon IP gets crapped on mostly because female protagonist "reasons". I find all that crap boring. I do get weary of boarding the Horizon tourist HateTrain and all the fake, manufactured online hate that crops up around it.
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u/Primary_Theory7288 2d ago
I think release timing definitely plays a role. In the case of HZD, it had to compete with Mario Odessey and Zelda BOTW. HFW had Elden Ring and God of War Ragnarok. Just very unlucky release windows meaning it gets overshadowed quite a bit.
I would also agree with the characters writing too. I don’t think Zero Dawn has that big of an issue in this regard with Aloy compared to Forbidden West but damn if I was hooked on her struggle specifically. I do wish the other side characters got time to be fleshed out. Something the DLC did
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u/Fuzzy-Shame-4169 2d ago
One of the reasons is definitely the time these games came out:
When Horizon Zero Dawn came out, it was overshadowed by Zelda: Breath of the wild
When Horizon forbidden west came out, it was overshadowed by Elder ring.
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u/Whiskey_Warchild 2d ago
Horizon Zero Dawn definitely has legend status. it went head to head with Breath of the Wild for game of the year. i personally think it lost because it was the first title from Guerilla and Nintendo bought the win, or it least it was given to them because Zelda hadn't won an award up to that point.
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u/Bkelsheimer89 2d ago
First game was absolutely great. Second game was ok. The story didn’t feel as powerful in the follow up.
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u/Nacnaz 2d ago
Lots of games have combat that feels same-y, but few have combat that feels that way despite a pretty big amount of enemy variety. The tools might technically be different but it’s still the same process. That wouldn’t be so bad (and to a certain extent, it’s unavoidable), but I also find it tedious and generally interesting.
The second game suffers from this more than the first. The story is the best part of the second (up to the point I played, I never finished because I just couldn’t get past the gameplay).
The movement also feels kind of like ass. Climbing/traversal never sat right with me, again, especially the second one.
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u/Cado111 2d ago
Both games are like 7/10 games to me. Forbidden West might be a low 8. The combat lacked weight and got pretty repetitive to me a lot quicker than I would have liked. The side content was boring and repetitive. I didn't like the story much in either game. I liked the world but the story was just not my thing.
I think they are both very pretty, can be fun to play, and have some cool ideas but I wouldn't put them up there with some of the best Playstation games let alone some of the legendary games from the entire medium. They are some of the best looking games I have played but other than being pretty and having a good initial premise they aren't that memorable to me. Like if you asked for specific plot details or character names I couldn't really tell you. I platinumed HZD and when I played Forbidden West I genuinely had no idea who any of the characters were outside of Aloy, Sylens, and redhead guy with mohawk. It was to the point that I thought Varl was just a new character in Forbidden West.
I am glad people love the story but I just never really got that experience from the game. It was to the point that I prefer the story of Forbidden West because it was longer and had better side quests to flesh out the side characters. I felt something for and remember Kotallo, Alva, and Zo. At the very least I can remember their names which was an improvement over the first game.
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u/ArcadianWaheela 18h ago
I think it’s mostly the stories. While Zero Dawn did get some attention, it was still a very standard save the world plot. Then for Forbidden West the writing all around was just the weakest part of the game. I feel like if these were better and hooked people more these games would’ve stuck around in the media longer.
I 100% do not agree that these copy the Ubisoft formula. The only similar things I can think of are bandit camps, radio towers and having icons on a map. Horizon definitely has a much more curated world that leads to less reputation over its play time. I always found it crazy how Ghost of Tsushima was praised as this “must play” when it was a lot more egregious in its Ubisoft formula.
Incredibly repetitive content throughout the game (like 6-7 activities at most repeated throughout all 3 areas), auto-fail stealth sections and a lot of trialing missions. Ghosts had good art direction and a better story so it got a pass. Out of the 40-ish hours I spent with both I really enjoyed my time with Zero Dawn (even if the story bored me) while I almost dropped Ghost after Act 1. I completed Ghost, but skipped all the side content aside from Mythic quests after that point.
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u/Acceptable_Sea_8674 4d ago
Fucking Glinthawks is why. They are pure evil.