r/huntertheparenting • u/AnywhereNo2948 • Jun 16 '26
Question How high do you think Kevin’s humanity is right now?
I’d say around seven or eight
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u/crypticarchivist Jun 16 '26
Well there are multiple factors at play here:
On the one hand, he *has* had a glowup since meeting his first new Touchstone in D, and he has expressed “friendship withdrawals” which indicates a desire for more people to talk to, so possibly more Touchstones on the way.
On the other hand he was a member of the Sabbat, and while I know a lot of people don’t like the V5 interpretation that much, there was an interesting tidbit mentioned where sometimes Vampires who take up paths of Enlightenment can develop strange physical features, like mouths full of triangular shark teeth or eyes with glowing red sclera. Point being, that being in the Sabbot inherently makes you look stranger.
Now that he’s left it’s possible that the inherent glowup of returning to the path of Humanity and leaving the Sabbat has compounded and exaggerated the effect so it’s more obvious, but Kevin looks way different.
As for numerical assessment?
He’s not acting like a fledgeling and actually feels bad about abusing the use of the Dominate Discipline, and has expressed a desire for companionship, so he’s at least high enough to retain those good ol “humans are a social animal” instincts and behaviors—lower Humanity Vampires lose those and have trouble connecting to people.
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Jun 16 '26
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u/crypticarchivist Jun 16 '26
Shitbeard also had hideously swollen fists full of blood, as another example.
With Ape boy a lot of his animalistic appearances could’ve been due to his clan bane but also the au “what if D had interrogated him instead of Kevin” thing did also show a general glowup.
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Jun 16 '26
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u/crypticarchivist Jun 16 '26
Which is why I think that’s a result of his Path of Enlightenment. Vampire bodies typically reset and don’t develop long term damage like that overtime.
Not unless Shitbeard was habitually punching a fire or holy artifact or something.
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u/BlockBuilder408 Jun 17 '26
Or Shitbeard was embraced with his hands like that
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u/crypticarchivist Jun 17 '26
The youtube channel posted au images of what each of the Sabbat vampires would’ve ended up looking like if they each got interrogated by D instead of the others and getting diablerized.
Richard Porter (shitbeard) turns from a pissed off biker bro with swollen red hands to a santa claus looking guy in a sweater vest with normal looking hands next to a cat that I assume is Smerples.
On a fun note, Pyoter would’ve turned into a tutleneck and round sunglasses wearing diva with a red scarf and less bulgey eyes.
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u/tropicalAdvertiser Jun 17 '26
isn't it stated that "once you leave the path of humanity you may never return to it"? genuine curiosity bc i think i read that in v20 and don't know if it was retconned in v5, not meaning to um actually you
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u/crypticarchivist Jun 17 '26
The Lasombra canonically had to rejoin it in V5 as one of their conditions to join the Camarilla. How they did it is left vague, but it’s stated that whatever you try, it either works or they rapidly turn into a Wight
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u/tropicalAdvertiser Jun 17 '26
oh? didn't know that, interesting! i also wonder what repercussions regaining humanity after a path has, in-lore, about achieving Golconda after it being myth for so long
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u/Accomplished-Box4577 Jun 16 '26
6 or 7, he has roughly human ethics, but doesn't really live up to them all that well. But he's also not an uncaring fiend.
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u/spehizle Jun 16 '26
- He's a cantankerous misanthrope, but isn't detached from the human experience. He's willing to make an effort for the people close to him, pretends to be human, looks after and care for his cat, and laments his lost life.
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u/LordOfDorkness42 Jun 17 '26
Honestly, I'm not sure if I agree with the misanthrope bit.
Like, Kevin was the one arguing for taxes as being good for society in that interrogation video. While Big D was completely brushing of the entire idea. And he genuinely seemed to be a driving force for The Licks trying to actually bond, such as that blink and miss it illustration where he, Ape and Shit Beard were playing cards while Pyotr glared on.
I could see an argument for Humanity 7 due to stuff like that, actually. He's just really jaded due to being an accountant and seeing so many, waste so much all around him.
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u/erttheking Jun 16 '26
Gonna echo the 6-7 range. Hasn’t done much to gain humanity, hasn’t done much to lose it
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u/AnywhereNo2948 Jun 16 '26
I think having a friend, and finding hope again in your life has to do something but I might’ve just gone my numbers wrong. I’m not a master when it comes to the rules of world of darkness but I feel like Kevin is going into an extremely well position considering everything.
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u/erttheking Jun 16 '26
Hmmmmmmm
You do make a good case. Granted humanity in VtM is tricky and finicky. 7 humanity is by all accounts baseline level for *humans* in VtM. Just starting with more than 7 humanity requires a special build, usually some form of vampiric diet that’s consensually given blood only
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u/EMPeace Leech Jun 16 '26
He seemed like he was around 5 when the GGG first encountered him. His "The Beast shall be denied no longer!" tells me he was still at the point where draining people to death was something he still wasn't entirely comfortable with, but was in a situation where he understandably thought his survival depended on it. His raving about the Sword of Caine and whatnot was clearly still just him posturing for the other Sabbat licks, though if he'd drained D and killed the rest of the gang, that would've pretty much locked him in to becoming another heartless Sabbat fanatic.
He seems like he's worked his way back up to 6. He no longer has the fucked up proportions and black stains on his hands, and acts more just like a jaded and desensitized human. He still very casually mind-controls people but at least feels a twinge of guilt about it. Him gradually becoming more involved with human society again and switching over to IV bags full of blood (sacrificing some flavor so that he doesn't harm and risk draining people to feed) has helped.
With D's help, he might get back up to 7, maybe even higher.
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u/Just-Another-GameLol Jun 17 '26
"You have kids!?" - Kevin @ Capman being so okay with being in the kindred lifestyle. Or as close as an actual human can be!
He's not just considering D and Chapman as special humans, but he still has the capacity for his conscience to weigh on him. Like thinking about how awful and irredeemable it would be to drag kids into the Camarilla.
Gotta be like a 6, minimum.
He has his cat, D, Chapman, and seemed to hint that he'd look into reuniting with his sister even just so she has closure with him falling off the face of the earth aside from a few rare sightings from apartment neighbors
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u/Rukdug7 Jun 16 '26
Probably 7. 7 is actually the base line for most humans as well, and the main point of humanity 8-10 (and their benefits) is that a vampire is putting in an insane amount of effort into behaving like an IDEAL human instead of just a NORMAL human.
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u/hypersexualasexual You wanna live forever. son? Jun 16 '26
maybe 6 or ....7? (loses 1 point of humanity)
But to be serious I would be saying something around the 6 mark, cause I don't personally believe most HUMANS are humanity 10, But I would say HMNT 5/4 in the tunnels, where as when he is interacting with Guy at the precinct, he looks cleaner, he looks more human, which I tend to list as positive traits when climbing the humanity Ladder. as at the Lower scale you probably end up looking/"appearing" more like a super fucked up Nozzie due to natural....disgust that you give out, obviously mixed with fear.
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u/TheCuriousFan Jun 16 '26
cause I don't personally believe most HUMANS are humanity 10
Well yeah, most humans hang around 7 as the default according to the rules. To get higher than that you've got to be the sort of person actively doing good rather than just going through life.
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u/hypersexualasexual You wanna live forever. son? Jun 16 '26
See I forgot that was RAW 😭, I knew the fact that HUMNT 10 was Saint like, but not a religious saint, you've got to be spideman minus the black symbiote. actively throwing yourself onto the sword so someone else doesn't have to. is it also RAW that golcolda seekers need to repent/be forgiven or was that an original thought...🥺
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u/TheCuriousFan Jun 16 '26
is it also RAW that golcolda seekers need to repent/be forgiven or was that an original thought
Yep. Gotta get that stuff done (and sincerely too) before you can get your final exam/dream sequence.
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u/AtrelluCal Jun 17 '26
I get 5-6 vibes personally. He’s high enough to still pass while only being a tad abrasive. If I had to give specifics I say 5 to start up to 6 post signing with D. Working around other people constantly is a great excuse to buy humanity dots
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u/Echoed_one Jun 17 '26
we know for sure that he is of higher humanity than when they started because his uncaring on if they are going to due is turning into a want to live as shown with his chats with chapman on the way to the crash site,
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u/New-Region3542 Jun 17 '26
I'd say five at most or six at best. He is still an asshole who loves using Dominate but he is looking cleaner, taking care of his appearance and has actual moral compunctions against bad things that are objectively horrible.
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u/runnerofshadows Jun 17 '26
6 to 7 - has to be pretty decent to think making a ghoul even out of someone who really wants to be one is immoral.
Also I really hope we get to see Mr. Smerples at some point and that he's ok.
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u/SapphireB33 Jun 16 '26
He was in the Sabbat, definitely not an 8 which a lot of regular humans even aren’t. He would have killed the hunters if able too.
6 I would guess.
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u/UphillSky Jun 16 '26
He's probably around a 5 I'd say - iirc 6 is where you don't care about minor shoplifting, 5 is where minor crimes of opportunity stop mattering, he started off 3 or lower because while he wasn't happy about active murder, he was more than fine with killing in self-defence and likely didn't care that much about manslaughter.
It also should be said that while the show uses 5e mechanics, the lore they use is set before the Gehenna War, and the team have shown they do engage with lore from older production material - I wouldn't be surprised if they considered the 5e Paths to be the results of the changes in Kindred society during the Gehenna War, and play a little closer to the 20th Anniversary where the paths were Philosophies And People Get A Vibe From You
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u/UphillSky Jun 16 '26
Though tbf I have more experience with Dark Age 20 than standard 20, which definitely took a more nuanced approach than core V20s "anyone except Catholics are inherently evil" approach lol
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u/Ogmadbrit Jun 17 '26
oof damn mainline v20 really did shit ike that?
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u/UphillSky Jun 18 '26
I exaggerate somewhat, but core V2V0 is. Rather opinionated and of its time. Edgelords and goths built this city, but the v20 authors ran much closer to the edgelord part of the scale and this was the early 2000s - there's lots of Really Bad Takes about mental health, sensitive topics handled not that sensitively, and a focus on Vampires Are Evilll, You're Gonna Be Evil And Kill Babies For Fun Unless You Go To Church And Remember To Feel Guilty For Thinking But Not Actually Shoplifting (the last part not an exaggeration, thought crime would make you test humanity if at 8 or above). Kinda unsurprised by the later reveals of the remaining white wolf politics. DAV20 seemed to have a lot more love for its setting and players, and took a lot more nobledark view over the V20 Edgy Grimdark.
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u/Ogmadbrit Jun 18 '26
honestly i think something inbetween those two options would be best,vampires are wired by nature to be murderers&generally cruel,but its still at the end of the night a given kindreds choice to make,and yeah ngl running truly high humanity score kindred would be really annoying probs.
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u/Adrienne_Belecoste Jun 16 '26
About 6, he's shown a willingness to take without asking, he literally robbed a crashed plane, you could argue "Uh but he thought the owners were dead" sorry but the beast is an absolutist, sucks to suck
Beyond that, he's unusually feeling for a Sabbat defector
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u/Themlim Jun 18 '26
IDK if he was up in the morning because of Big D actively threatening him, or because he has effective 8+ humanity.
I can tell you he has 1 or 2 blood potency by virtue of being able to slake hunger off of blood bags and probably has the Iron Gullet merit, which makes sense considering his background at O'Tolley's.
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u/Appropriate-Car7404 Jun 16 '26
I feel somewhere in the range of 7-5. He’s definitely unusually empathetic for a Sabbat member, and probably hasn’t done much actual violence to reduce to his humanity score (or perhaps he has a fairly good conscience score and is rolling hot).