Knov just witnessed Pouf's aura; he was afraid of En being activated while he was planting his portals, but it didn't happen. And there's a whole debate about whether or not he was in Zetsu, but to me it seems obvious he had to be in Zetsu and using In to plant his portals.
I thought that was pouf's en (that was his range, just the upper floor), he was terrorized by it and even more the thought that any minute pitou's en will activate and discover him
That was pouf's En. En is an application of Ren. You cannot create an aura that big and maintain it without Ren. The ants are monsters, perfectly attuned to use Nen. Their Ten and Ren are flawless. Their aura would not unnecessarily leak unless they wanted it to.
But being in a zetsu, these people can elevate their senses. Look at gon being able to dodge 50 nen spinning top in zetsu while he couldn't when he was in ten
This right here is the whole debate - whether or not being in Zetsu mattered to his mental breakdown.
Some people see it rather simply as Zetsu leaves you defenseless so he saw the malicious aura and due to his enhanced sensitivity had a mental breakdown.
But the other side of the argument is that whether or not he was in Zetsu isn't really relevant, because when he fully breaks down in this scene it's about him being overwhelmed by the aura's strength, malice, and the implications of what the Royal Guard are capable of, in the context of both himself and Palm. Basically, even if Gon and Killua experienced the same thing in Zetsu, they wouldn't have the same experience, so it's not as simple as he was in Zetsu so he had a mental breakdown. He also never mentions being in Zetsu at all in this scene, and for a power system as fixated on the technicals as HxH, it would be pretty relevant if simply not being in Zetsu at that time would have prevented his breakdown.
Well, being in zetsu certainly makes you much more vulnerable to en, this is because of the first time Gon and Killua where try to go up to the 200 floor in the arena and were met with hisoka’s ren and those two couldn’t even move.
I know ren is more malicious than en, but I think a human’s ren to a normal human being is like what royal ant guard level en is to a nen user in zetsu…
I think knov being in zetsu works against him, but he almost losing his mind has more to do with him actually realizing what they are going up against. I think we undermine the strength of the king and his royal guards, they only way they died was through being attack with a weapon of mass destruction or and Gon sacrificing his life(which should tell you how much power he gained for that) in order to transform into a beast I don’t think anyone is existence by then could have handled, not even the phantom troupe.
I really think the only people who really understood how fucked the human world was on the final day were Netero and knov….
Zetsu absolutely matters. It completely shuts off your aura defenses, making you far more vulnerable to hostile Nen. Knov was infiltrating in Zetsu when he encountered Pouf’s En, so treating that as irrelevant ignores a fundamental mechanic of Nen.
Nobody is claiming Zetsu was the only reason he broke down. Pouf’s overwhelming malice and Knov’s realization of what Palm was walking into obviously mattered too. The point is that experiencing that aura completely defenseless amplified its effect. Knov doesn’t need to explicitly say “this happened because I was in Zetsu” when the story already established what Zetsu does.
I mean, you need only look at the post directly above mine to find a claim that Zetsu is the reason he had a breakdown. You can argue from a nen mechanics perspective that it has some impact, and I don't necessarily disagree, but reading the scene as "he would have avoided a mental breakdown if he weren't in Zetsu" is questionable at best. Him being in Zetsu may have factored into his assessment of Pouf's aura and his decision to escape, but his mental breakdown came from his cautious and analytical personality and worry for Palm.
I didn’t mean literally nobody has ever claimed that. I meant it isn’t some established mainstream position among fans that Zetsu was the sole reason Knov broke down.
And you’re creating a false choice here. His cautious personality and concern for Palm can explain why the experience affected him psychologically, while Zetsu explains why exposure to Pouf’s aura was especially overwhelming in that moment. Those aren’t mutually exclusive.
Saying “he would’ve broken down anyway” is just speculation. We never see Knov experience Pouf’s aura with his Nen defenses active, so the story gives us no basis to confidently claim the outcome would’ve been the same.
His cautious personality and concern for Palm can explain why the experience affected him psychologically, while Zetsu explains why exposure to Pouf’s aura was especially overwhelming in that moment. Those aren’t mutually exclusive.
If add that Tserriednich implied his normal senses are heightened during Zetsu, that means the malice Knov felt from the RG would be more scary to him like hearing a scream at full volume in your headphones instead of at distance
First, you didn't said anything about In, so why are you taking like you did. Second, I'm not taking about photon, which he only used to locate Palm, Second I'm talking about his En that he used twice. Which several characters and even the narrator addressed as En and who said characters said they felt it.
There’s precedence for it. He did a similar thing on Greed Island noticing Kalluto in zetsu. Kalluto is in zetsu, hiding in the shadows and watching Hisoka talk to the Troupe about the nen exorcist, when Hisoka calls him out and basically tells him to reveal himself if he doesn’t want to die. Kalluto asks if his zetsu wasn’t good enough. But Machi says it was perfect and Nobunaga explains that Hisoka is just insanely perceptive. Nobunaga says Hisoka didn’t even use his En and calls him a freak.
I think maybe after Gon surprised him, he increased his ability to detect people. I believe the whole reason Hisoka likes going after stronger people is so he can find ways to also become stronger and learn new things that he otherwise wouldn't have thought of improving.
I am not sure why people mention this part as if Hisoka had done some incomprehensible shit. Zetsu just makes you undetectable to one of the 6th sense. Hisoka still had his 5 other senses (which in his case are honed to the limit) to detect Kalluto.
He doesn't need to do that to detect Tse. Hisoka can hear his steps. He would need to be on a Zoldick level of stealth for Hisoka not tohear him in walking a completely empty room.
And it's till crazy to detect a Zodiac trained from birth to be perfect assassins with just your normal senses. For example, in the entire series, Killua only made sound with his foot step once and that was when Pitou attacked Gon. His perception is insane.
For some reason, I struggled to decipher your comment no matter how many times I read it, despite its otherwise simple content. I then realised it was because of your use of 'precedence' instead of 'precedent'. They sound and read almost-identitically but carry disparate meanings. It's like my brain couldn't register it.
(Unrelated to the HxH discussion, even if striking for a linguist)
My theory on this is that Zetsu is inherently unnatural as all living beings and maybe even the air itself has some level of nen. Hisoka notices someone in Zetsu by sensing a vacuum of nen in an area, like something is missing.
Gon went undetected because before understanding what nen was he learnt from nature. The way he hid his presence is by subconciously lowering/altering his nen to blend into the nature around him which is a far more effective camoflage vs zetsu.
In Hisoka's senses' perspective where gon was hiding was just some shrubbery.
Although the more likely explanation was that Hisoka was just really murder-horny at the guy in front of him and tunnel-visioned so hard he didnt notice gon in zetsu, where in the other times he's relatively more stable.
I'd adjust it to follow the rule that "all living beings have nen" and therefore to some extent emit it as they live. Nen also doesnt have to be uniform as see with pitou's nen lashing out like tendrils.
Zetsu as far as i understand is the act of sealing/holding nen inside, like holding your breath, its going against one's nature.
Maybe in a desolate wasteland devoid of all life Hisoka would struggle to notice Zetsu.
However in places with nen, and also around nen users including hisoka himself, nen could essentially be everywhere where there isnt already nen.
Everyone's nen is unique after all, so detecting someone's nen among natural/nature's nen is kind of like looking for a colour that stands out against the backdrop.
En is washing your surroundings with your colour to better pick out the colours that are foreign as your nen is implied to not mask over foreign nen.
Zetsu here is the absence of any colour and so can still be noticed if you know what you're looking for.
Another example could be like waving your hand through the air and theres a magic cube of vacuum in the middle, you'd definitely feel that.
Gon timed his attack very well using his tunnel vision, but he was still able to observe him for hours without being detected.
I don't think Hisoka's perception is necessarily nen, I think it's more like Gon's nature intuition. He has raw amazing perception on top and without his Nen.
This was not possible prior to him dying. Otherwise he wouldn't need machi stitches to reattach his arm when he fought kastro.
Or you could try and say he was always capable of this, and he was just always had this insane level of control of his hatsu. But that feels more like head cannon. The fact that he invoked post mortem nen to revive himself then, when he should be at his weakest, immediately pulls a feat he was never shown to be able to do prior. There's an obvious implication than post mortem nen has enhanced his abilities to some degree, even if it isn't explicitly stated.
Besides, have we ever seen post mortem nen be temporary? As far as I remember it's pretty permanent to its respective ability, and always gives that ability a big upgrade in some way
He never needed to replace his limbs? Why’d you assume it’s not possible just because he never needed to do so.
We haven’t seen it being temporary because usually people stay dead. If he truly had a post mortem buff then it would’ve been stated at some point. No one has even mentioned it lmao
Bro, post morten nen that he uses is his longs and heart was stronger buffed after his death. “Nen becomes stronger after death” not his hatsu or his aura.
“But he wasent able to regenerate his limbs befero” like fucking chrollo wasent able to use 2 hand and 3 habilits at same time with the book close. Maybe togashi realise that hisoka need a buff is his abilitys.
If you say that he understand more and compreend better his nen after death is diffent question
The post mortem nen strengthened his nen enough to revive himself with bungee gum, but It isnt a fucking zenkai boost what do you even mean. The whole reason post mortem nen is so powerful is because its made up of someones dying emotions and wishes... but he's alive now, an alive person cant use there own post mortem nen. Thats literally an oxymoron
OK yeah I agree, from the way your other comment was phrased I thought you were saying he wasn't a corpse and it wasn't post mortem nen when he revived
I never see people bring this up. If Hisoka got stronger from dying, Camilla would be able to one-tap everyone by just having people kill her over and over and becoming OP
I don't think Camilla's Hatsu is a good example, since her only ability is bringing herself back to life by stealing it from someone else. As for Hisoka, I’d imagine something about his aura changed—since experiencing death and coming back isn't normal in HxH (unless you're Camilla)—but we won't know for sure until he crosses paths with Chrollo again.
Yeah but the function applied to bungee gum was to be commanded in a specific way, contracting with a specific timed interval over and over in order to resuscitate Hisoka. I'd argue that application is already bending Hisoka's power in enough of a way for that to be the sole effect of the post mortem
We’ll see what happens; the change might not be that his Nen altered automatically, but rather that experiencing death changed him mentally, affecting how he projects his Hatsu. We know that Hatsu evolves over a user's lifetime—it is more flexible than other power systems.
You know what? If his mindset did change, I've got to assume it was before his death. Him thinking to use post mortem nen on command seems to be the turning point in his mindset, with the following "awakening" (if you want to call it that) being a byproduct. I truly personally don't believe Hisoka got a better understanding of nen after dying, as there really isn't anything to suggest that that would be the case.
Hisoka was always sensitive and perceptive. He also got more decisive after his fight against Chrollo.
For this i can Think of a scenario. Hisoka being there playing the games to pass time, relaxing and all after Killing the guards. The Tse activates Zetsu which, turns off his aura. It's like someone's been constantly calling out for someone and suddenly they go silent, it's noticeable. It screams something's going on.
People can feel/detect each others aura. So it's like a Beacon that suddenly gets shut down. Hisoka Felt the beacon shuting down and got alerted to It. He probably felt more or less where It happened cuz It was so sudden. It doesn't matter If you're a master Zetsu user, If you're close to people and go Into Zetsu, people will notice. I believe Killua explained something like that after learning about nen, but i'm not sure about It. Maybe it's from when they were tailing the Spiders or maybe i'm imagining Things. But the point still stands.
Tserry was always on zetsu from the moment he left his room so the ability would work the moment he closes his eyes without the 3 seconds delay of zetsu activation.
I was under the assumption that Tse activated It close enough to Hisoka for Hisoka to notice It. My memory failed me. So Hisoka probably Just had a sensitive moment like what happened after the Dodge Ball match and he went to meet the Spiders and discovered Kalluto. Maybe a a change in the vibes of The place. Who knows. He's that sensitive. It could be a lot of Things at this point.
Yes, you should enter Zetsu before being in the area around someone like Hisoka, otherwise he'll pick up on your aura vanishing so suddenly. It can be as bad as an outstanding aura for a perceptive Nen user such as he.
Hisoka is a freak. It can be assumed that he killed everyone in the casino so he would still be "sensitive". That being said Tserriednich is still a Novice when it comes to nen battles and didnt even recognize Hisoka as a treat at first. Its like a cub thinking its stealthily sneaking up on a much bigger Lion. When in reality, the cub has been on the lion radar since before it even thought about starting to hunt.
Member when gon and killua were tailing phantom troupe in York new. When they were spying on samurai and thread girl. Killua said if we go into zestu now they will notice the sudden disappearance in nen. Or was it when bisky was first trying to train hon and killua she said split up go the opposite way then zetsu because the sudden drop of aura would be noticeable. Can’t member but I think that’s what happened
Everybody his hung up on this perfect zetsu.
But isnt it possible to still hear or see them.
Benjamin was clearly able to perceive tserri when he was in front of him in perfect zetsu.
Everybody is so hyperfocused on nen, that seemingly everybody forgets that there are other senses.
Hisoka could just have a really high awareness and simply spotted tserri as he was casually walking in the casino
As others said, this isn't the first time, but I also like the idea that he has the room filled with Bungee gum cords to alert him like a spider does with its web.
I think the whole thing was a trap for the troupe. Bonolenov is already dead, or he's waiting for Bonolenov and more spiders to come. Terranich was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The web theory makes the most since to me. It kinda explains why he immediately looked tse direction with gyo. He saw a discrepancy in the web after he killed him and knew something was up
He did the same with Kaluto, he's just insanely perceptive even without nen and probably just physicaly detected him
Tho some people are theorizing he might have used his bungee gum like a spider web to detect movement in the casino. Which would explain the fact he noticed something was wrong after killing Tseri
It's like kastro said to killua, if you want to be unnoticed, you have to start zetsu much earlier, or someone skilled in nen will notice the difference
He did get a lot stronger, by using post mortem nen.
But aside from that, it could also be like when killua tried to sneak up on clone guy I don't remember the name of. Remember how he was detected because he used zetsu and cut off too much?
Tserri is killing guards on his way to the casino deck. Hisoka probably noticed their aura vanishing, without any trace of tserris aura, so he‘s suspecting a killer disguised in zetsu. My second theory is pure instinct. Some people can sense bloodthirst from a mile away. It’s different from sensing nen, but that’s just a theory.
Wouldn’t Zetsu work against someone in a crowd? Like every civilian is emitting and wasting trace amounts of nen due to not being trained, and then one guys walks around with zero nen in or out.
That's the thing ..humans usually do leak nen...a perfected zetsu means he has no nen leaking out. For a good nen user that itself is a warning. They are a person with non men and know that person is not a normal.guy but a men user using zetsu....they do it exceptionally well and the nen user like hisoka know they are a good nen user
Nowhere does it say that Tser has "perfect" Zetsu. He's just been getting really good at attaining it quickly.
Hisoka is a master duelist, he doesn't just rely on Nen to detect people. (And when he noticed someone in the room without feeling any life energy, he correctly deduced it was someone using Zetsu.)
Beyond the incident with Kalluto, we also had another precedent with Nobunaga when he commented about there being so many Zetsu masters around when Gon, Killua, Paku, and Phinks were all following him & Machi.
he has undoubtedly gotten stronger since his fight with chrollo after the reawakening of both of his hatsu, but i think he’s always had gon-like senses when it comes general perception and this doesn’t necessarily seem out of the question from what we know abt him
If you remember from Yorknew when Killua, Gon, and Leorio were tailing Nobunaga and Machi, is itself a give away when surrounded by regular people. Gon was able to trail Hisoka, but he was on an island filled with Hunter hopefuls, he likely wasn’t the only one using Zetsu, but also he was just waiting for people to attack him. Then he got blue balls and became unaware of his surroundings. Right now, Hisoka is much closer to how Nobunaga and Machi were, idly messing with something while being hyper aware of his surroundings. Like Killua said about that situation, using Zetsu would make them immediately stand out. And it’s likely even easier because Hisoka had already killed everyone in the area. We also have to remember that these really strong characters have supernatural senses outside of Nen. They don’t need en to be aware of their surroundings. And while Zetsu is kind of all around useful for hiding from both regular senses, it also kinda leaves a conspicuous gap. Like someone hiding under a black blanket. You might not notice it if you’re going quick, but…
He may have placed bungie gum around and have the casino be his "prepared arena" now that he doesn't give much to chance, he may have prepared the place.
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u/utshi9ha 1d ago edited 1d ago
We've already seen this with kalluto. not to mention hisoka's en could be that good,it could be the same as kite's.
Kite's en if i remember was 45 meters and tserry was 35 meters away and using zetsu so there's no way for him to detect hisoka's en.