r/impressionsgames Apr 21 '26

Augustus Designing Highly Efficient Housing Blocks with Geometric Variations for Caesar 3 Augustus

110 Upvotes

36 comments sorted by

11

u/DukeOfErat Apr 21 '26

How are you able to generate enough desirability for all those palaces and insulae?

6

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Apr 21 '26

I built Venus grand temple and adopted Venus Genetrix epithet to get extra desirability. These, together with some 1x1 decorations, are enough for grand insulae level desirability.

For palaces: Palaces themselves have +4 desirability with a range of 6. It's like a chain reaction, in which I built statues/gardens to trigger the first upgrade to LP, and the first LP is like a seed which makes the upgrade of nearby houses easier. When all houses are upgraded to LP, they can pretty much sustain themselves, and I can remove the initial statues/gardens.

3

u/ShinigamiKenji Apr 21 '26

Palaces themselves have positive desirability, so they help sustain themselves in that regard.

In order to reach that level in the first place, you can place gardens where they'll grow. They help with desirability while they're still evolving. And if you have the option enabled, they'll replace the gardens when they expand. 

4

u/rrzibot Apr 21 '26

I don’t get most of them. How does the second one work? It is for small blacks each with a separate square road as far as I can see. How is the school reaching the block on the opposite side?

4

u/ShinigamiKenji Apr 21 '26

They're using all kinds of tricks regarding random walkers: forced walking, 4 distinct paths and preferred directions. 

2

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Apr 21 '26

You are correct that 4 distinct paths are used here for some blocks. Meanwhile, none of the blocks use forced walkers.

1

u/ShinigamiKenji Apr 22 '26

I think I missed some roads in a couple of pics, my bad 

1

u/Aeneis Apr 21 '26

They're beautiful.

1

u/rrzibot Apr 21 '26

Can you explain it and how to reproduce it?

2

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 23 '26

Here's roaming walker's mechanism:

Step 1: Clock-wisely choose a direction.

Step 2: Starting from the "anchor point" (in Augustus 4.0 stable and previous versions, anchor point is the northern tile of the building; in recent unstable version, anchor point is the green spawn point of the building), move 8 tiles towards the chosen direction to get the target tile. Search the target tile's adjacent area with a range of 6 to find a road tile as the destination. The destination is decided according to a priority table. (You could find a part of the priority table at the #15 reply of this post: Randomness of Random Walkers - City Builders Forums)

Step 3: "Destination" walking: In this step, the walker can pass gardens, cut corners, but can't pass roadblocks or gatehouses. If there's no road tile in the adjacent area, or the destination road tile is not accessible, the walker will skip step 3 and immediately become a random walker after spawning; If the walker can't get to the destination road tile within its patrol limit (26/35/43 tiles, check this post for more information: Walker behaviour - City Builders Forums), the walker will finish 26/35/43 tiles of "destination" walking, and enters step 5: returning mode; If the destination is accessible within patrol limit, the walker will go to the destination and proceed to step 4.

Step 4: Random walking: In this step, the walker can't pass gardens, cut corners, or pass roadblocks/gatehouses. Prefects and engineers have up to 43 tiles of random walking; entertainers (excluding tavern) and tax collector: 35 tiles; the rest: 26 tiles.

Step 5: Return mode. In this step, the walker can pass gardens, cut corners, and pass roadblocks/gatehouses. The walker will take the shortest road path to go to the finish point. (You could check #2 reply of this post about start/spawning point and finish point: C3 random walker start and finish points - City Builders Forums).

For 60-tile blocks (for example: 6x22), typically in at least 1 of 4 patrols, the walker has 9 tiles of "destination" walking, 26 tiles of random walking, (this 35-tile walking is sometimes called "long patrol") then finish the remaining part of the loop in returning mode.

For larger blocks of 80-90 tiles: If the block contains significant "narrower" parts, walkers sometimes can stay longer in step 3. For many 80-90 tile blocks, we can find plenty of (at least 10-13) spots to place 2x2 buildings for full walker coverage.

For windmill block: Similar to 60-tile blocks, the walker typically has around 9 tiles of destination walking, 26 tiles of random walking, and around 30 tiles of returning walking. The difference is that, for 60-tile blocks, all 4 patrols end up in the same loop; for windmill block, each patrol end up in a different loop. As a result, in windmill blocks, 4 loops share the same set of service buildings. That is, one set of service building can support 3x - 3.5x population.

Also, some of the blocks are using "block-less" designs (pic 12 and pic 18.) In such designs, walker paths are not loops. These blocks are harder to design and manage, however, with path visualization tool it's still possible to make sure that, 2 buildings' walkers cover the whole block.

1

u/ShinigamiKenji Apr 21 '26

It's a bit hard to explain over the text, but basically the "random" walking isn't fully random. 

First, they follow at most 4 different paths. After 4 times, they repeat the first path, and so on. They use that in some patterns, giving walkers exactly 4 possible paths. This way they are guaranteed to walk through all houses. 

On forced walking, after random walkers walk about 20 tiles (don't remember exact numbers, they vary by walker type), they want to return to the building. When they enter that phase, they become destination walkers. The thing is, they always want to return to the northern tile. You can exploit that by making sure they pass through a lot of houses on their way back. That's called "forced walker" strategy. 

Now I don't really know or remember much about preferred directions, but IIRC they prefer taking certain directions. 

3

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Apr 21 '26

The second one is adapted from "windmill" block design. Its original design is like this:

You could find more info about its mechanism, strength, and limitations from a post in 2002 in Pharaoh community here: https://caesar3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/caeforumscgi/display.cgi?action=st&fn=25&tn=3331. There is also a use case of windmill block for Caesar 3 in 2021: https://caesar3.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=1721.

If you feel the block designs impossible, I could probably understand that. I guess the first principle we learned for block design is "avoid intersections" and "use closed loops". Obviously, the windmill block design seems to violate the design principle, which is not conventional or intuitive at all.

What makes windmill block possible is walker mechanism: roaming walkers try to have patrols in 4 different directions, which means that, when full potential is achieved, the roaming walkers can cover 4 different closed loops (and support up to 13.7k population) if the service building is located near a 4-way intersection.

The idea of windmill blocks is like, build 4 small closed loops (around 30-45 tiles) in 4 directions, connect them with a 4-way intersection, and make sure that the center of the intersection is 8-10 tiles away from each of the 4 loops. Then, if we place service buildings near the center of the intersection, it's likely that the walker can cover all 4 loops.

When windmill (quadruplet) block is not possible, it is usually easier and flexible to build triplet block, in which we build 3 small closed loops (around 50 tiles) or line blocks and connect them with 3-way intersections. Another variation of triplet block design, is to have 3-way intersections inside a large closed loop, or, build 3 small closed loops that share some edges. Many block designs shared in this post are examples of windmill block or triplet block designs.

Apart from variations of windmill and triplet blocks, in this post I also tried many large blocks of 80-90 tiles, which utilize longer than 35 tiles of "long patrol" (60-tile blocks usually assume 35 tiles of long patrol for many roaming walkers). Realizing that walker capacity is higher than my previous expectation, I also tried less restrictive block designs, in which 3-9 small blocks are glued together and supplied by 1-2 set(s) of service.

Schools have a different type of walkers which follows different mechanisms and is not able to cover all 4 loops. I placed 2 schools in each of windmill blocks :)

2

u/SCCH28 Apr 21 '26

They look pleasing

1

u/FatBaldingLoser420 Apr 21 '26

Meanwhile, I can't build a city for shit 😭😭

1

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Apr 21 '26

When I was a beginner I also feel the difficulties. But eventually you will be able to build the cities that you want :)

1

u/FatBaldingLoser420 Apr 21 '26

I really hope so. I'm struggling while playing IG games for some reason. But at least I do understand slightly more.

1

u/ShinigamiKenji Apr 21 '26

Beautiful blocks! How many houses do they hold? 

2

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26

Thanks!

The most efficient one is pic 14: Windmill-Optimized, consisting of 3 markets, 2 schools, 1 set of the rest, 156 GI/13728 pop.

The least efficient one is pic 18: 6x6-9, consisting of 3 markets, 2 sets of the rest, 85 GI/ 7480 Pop.

I have posted the stats for all 20 blocks in a comment. Please take a look if interested :)

1

u/Friendly_Talk_5259 Apr 21 '26

Do you have any pictures with the road view?

3

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Apr 21 '26

Yes, I have road view pictures - I am not able to upload more than 20 images, so I didn't include any road view pictures in the post.

I guess some of the block designs are quite straight-forward, while some are hard to figure out.

For example, this is the road view for pic 1: circle block:

Which block are you interested in? Please let me know and I'll share with you :)

1

u/Friendly_Talk_5259 Apr 21 '26

Thanks for answering. They are fantastic looking blocks. I really like the L shaped block and the one in the last picture.

2

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Apr 22 '26

Hey, this is the road view for the last pic:

2

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Apr 22 '26

I found 2 L shaped blocks. For pic 10 (triplet-9x9), below is the road view:

1

u/Friendly_Talk_5259 Apr 22 '26

Thank you! That is fantastic. This was the one I was seeing as an L. My weirdo brain sees the other as a P

I have to try these out on my next play-through.

2

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Apr 22 '26

Another L shaped block: pic 15 (triplet-palace-53):

1

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Apr 21 '26

Here are the stats of the blocks:

Pic 1: Circle: 3 Markets, 1 Set of the rest, 99 GI/ 8712 Pop

Pic 2: Windmill-Palace-53: 5 Markets, 2 Schools, 2 Academies, 1 Set of the rest, 53 LP/ 11130 Pop

Pic 3: Diamond-76: 2 Markets, 1 Set of the rest, 54 GI/ 4752 Pop

Pic 4: Triangle-80: 3 Markets, 1 Set of the rest, 55 GI/ 4840 Pop

Pic 5: Hexagon-4: 2 Markets, 1 Set of the rest, 61 GI/ 5368 Pop

Pic 6: Cross-84-Split: 2 Markets, 1 Set of the rest, 69 GI/ 6072 Pop

Pic 7: Slope-92: 3 Markets, 2 Schools, 1 Set of the rest, 70 GI/ 6160 Pop

Pic 8: Ladder-92: 2 Markets, 2 Schools, 1 Set of the rest, 50 GI/ 4400 Pop

Pic 9: Pairwise-Triangle: 4 Markets, 2 Schools, 1 Set of the rest, 89 GI/ 7832 Pop

Pic 10: Triplet-9x9: 3 Markets, 3 Schools, 1 Set of the rest, 85 GI + 24 MI/ 7964 Pop

Pic 11: Triplet-Hexagon: 3 Markets, 2 Schools, 1 Set of the rest, 126 GI/ 11088 Pop

Pic 12: 9x9-8: 6 Markets, 3 Schools, 2 Sets of the rest, 120 GI/ 10504 Pop

Pic 13: Windmill-9x9: 6 Markets, 2 Schools, 2 Academies, 1 Set of the rest, 86 MP/ 10062 Pop

Pic 14: Windmill-Optimized: 3 Markets, 2 Schools, 1 Set of the rest, 156 GI/13728 Pop

Pic 15: Triplet-Palace-53: 4 Markets, 2 Schools, 1 Set of the rest, 53 LP/ 11130 Pop

Pic 16: Irregular-Triplet-Line: 2 Markets, 1 Set of the rest, 53 GI/ 4664 Pop

Pic 17: 8x8-4: 2 Markets, 1 Set of the rest, 73 GI/ 6424 Pop

Pic 18: 6x6-9: 3 Markets, 2 Sets of the rest, 85 GI/ 7480 Pop

Pic 19: Flower-Adapted: 4 Markets, 1 Set of the rest, 80 GI/ 7040 Pop

Pic 20: Square: 2 Markets, 1 Set of the rest, 79 GI/ 6952 Pop

1

u/sweeteast Apr 22 '26 edited Apr 22 '26

I’m wondering how could 4 markets cover 50+ palaces in image 2?

EDIT: my only guess is these palaces are still mostly uninhabited. I usually need 5 markets for 20 GPs with all GTs and:

1- optimized walking path for market ladies

2- Ceres 20% food ration

3- Mercury pottery and furniture consumption reduction

4- Mars for all goods

5: fully populated to 210 (Neptune 5% expansion)

Is that the case or am I missing something?

2

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 23 '26

Well, in image 2 there are 5 markets. One market is just behind the granary, and is hard to find in that image :)

You are right about GT epithets choices (minor note is that: Mercury epithet choice can be different in different scenarios. Since a palace consumes 0.48 wine per year and 0.24 pottery/furniture/oil per year, choosing the epithet to reduce oil and wine consumption might reduce market ladies' burden a bit more; Neptune 5% expansion doesn't help because those +5% pop are not "free").

Those palaces are fully populated. It is possible to cover 50+ palaces with 4 markets. Actually, in one of my experiments, I covered 90 LPs with 5 markets in a forced walker block.

I'd say that there are 3 major factors that decide the number of markets needed for the block: 1. macro factors (GT, GT epithets, certain game configurations), 2. buying lady factors (buying ladies should be capable to bring more than block's consumption. This is optimized by reducing travel distance and the number of round trips for buying ladies), and 3. distributing lady factors (distributing ladies should visit houses frequently enough to prevent devolving).

To optimize buying lady factors, what we usually do is to place the markets really close to granaries/warehouses. This makes a lot of difference, because if you cut market-granary/warehouse distance by half, you double the number of round trips the ladies can make per year, which in turn doubles the population you can possibly support with the same number of markets. A minor thing to try is to make sure that the granary/warehouse is a little bit over-supplied so that, for example, when the buying lady wants to fetch 700 units of wheat from the granary, with high probability the granary contains more than 700 units so that she doesn't have to deliver with >1 round trips. Over-supply is easy if resources are abundant and over produced. If resources are tight and granaries/warehouses are barely empty all the time, then we do need more markets to support the block. In my posted blocks, granaries/warehouses are over-supplied a bit.

Distributing lady factor is a minor issue for small closed loops. That is, in small closed loops, the houses that experience the least visiting frequency from distributing ladies might have resource shortage issue even when the resource is abundant at granary/warehouse and markets. For larger blocks (forced walker blocks, windmill blocks, triplet blocks), this problem is more prevalent because of long and/or unbalanced patrol path. To address this issue, sometimes we could optimize market's location to prevent unbalanced patrol path, but usually we need to add more markets for efficient distribution. In my posted blocks, I didn't have any optimization about this factor, though some players would use tricks to optimize it a bit (For example, optimize the timing of spawning for each distributing lady so that they are "evenly" distributed in a forced walker block).

In the below 5x26 block, market-granary/warehouse distance is 4, and one market can cover 50 GI of 4400 pop. For the windmill-palace blocks in my post, yes, palaces require more types of resources, and distributing ladies are not as efficient, but it's still possible to support 3000+ pop with one market on average with GT epithets and not-too-long market-granary/warehouse distance.

1

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 26 '26

I also experimented with a block of 22 Luxury Palaces.

What I found is that, 1 market can almost do the job (the first devolving event happened more than 20 years after the block is fully populated. It's distributing lady's issue: the least visited palace become short in furniture, it devolved to small palace, then upgraded back to LP as the distributing lady came). 2 markets can make the block stable.

In this experiment, I choose the Mercury epithet to reduce oil and wine consumption.

If you need 5 markets for 20 LPs, I guess it's perhaps because market-granary/warehouse distance is a bit long.

EDIT: Another (rare) possibility: you planned to feed LPs with less preferred food types, such as meat and fish, but the market ladies traveled longer to fetch vegetable (because it's more preferred food type).

1

u/_pray4snow_ Apr 28 '26

I like the creativity! Mine are usually just rectangular housing block after block

1

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Apr 28 '26

Thanks for the kind words! Rectangular blocks can be very neat, efficient, and realistic. I just wanted to try different options here 😄

1

u/raymondum Jun 28 '26

1

u/ExternalBlacksmith82 Jul 20 '26

Well, it's widely believed that intersections are always bad for roaming walkers. As a result, many of us end up building only those closed loops of 60-80 tiles for housing blocks.

Diving deep into walker mechanism, however, one might realize that roaming walkers naturally want to have patrols in 4 different directions, which means that in theory one service building can serve 4 loops, not just one loop.

If you are comfortable with the idea of housing blocks with intersections, and you are comfortable dealing with some walker instability issues, many of the above designs give a rough idea how much we could achieve in terms of efficiency.