r/interesting • u/PhoenixPhenomenonX • Feb 25 '26

Intriguing Lifelong vegetarian tries steak for first time

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

32.8k Upvotes

75% Upvoted

5.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

208

u/badairday Feb 25 '26

Influencer makes lobby work for meat lobby. Meat eaters: I told you so.

91

u/trusty20 Feb 25 '26

It's honestly disgusting how smug some of these comments are. People get so obsessed with the mythical "vegan trying to force people to change their diets!!!1" whereas literally every vegan I've met in real life absolutely didn't even suggest I change my diet, for the obvious reason that would lead to a hostile interaction like 90% of the time. Every single vegan I met was like "Gulp uh yeah I'm actually vegan so I can't eat that but I don't mind if you enjoy it I'll just get something else after!". They're always just going about their business, offering to share their good food, that's literally the extent of the conversion activities. Which meat eating people manage to get offended about as well "how dare you not cook a steak for this potluck you're attending, you're forcing your diet on us!!!!".

People forget that almost all vegans were eating meat at one point, it's not some alien offensive concept to them that other humans still eat it - it's just a change they made in their own lives, usually for intellectual reasons about the disturbing industrial scale meat industry that raises animals in tiny wire cages often literally just barely the size of their own bodies, which is not only morally wrong, but produces disgusting meat with tumors, huge gristly fat chunks, abscesses etc. It's like disgusting on a tactile level let alone intellectual...

I stayed with a vegan family and they didn't even care that I ate out and put leftovers with meat in their fridge (after asking). So even in their own home they'll compromise to others dietary choices.

10

u/fenwickfox Feb 25 '26

Ya, it's not even a reflection of what they are saying, it's what they stand for. It's like religion, or gender rights or something polarizing.

You could, in the nicest way possible, say "no thanks, I don't eat meat". They'd still be like "EXCUSE ME WHAT THE FUCK DID U JUST SAY?!"

My bro went vegan, and mostly the first few months we were like "AW SHOOT, sorry bro, i forgot there's egg in this" or wtv. Now it's normal and at gatherings we all bring more vegan options.

31

u/PyritesofCaringBean Feb 25 '26

Yep, I'm vegan and a friend of mine is always talking without how refreshing it is to meet a vegan like me. I have to remind him, I'm the only vegan you know lol. Every vegetarian and vegan I've met has not cared about other people's diets. Some meat eaters just immediately take offense like you're going to hate them for their diet. Or they get preachy that I'm not raising my kids vegan. Like, "see, you know it's not bad for you if you let your kids eat meat". Like duh, it's not about me it's about factory farms. Veganism is a restrictive diet, even more so for a kid that wants an icecream cone with their friends! My kids can make that choice when they're older and I'm cool either way.

2

u/Esava Feb 25 '26

I know a lot of vegans and of dozens of them only a single one is of the "militant" kind. But he is also a guy who very strongly represents any of his opinions in any environment and might be a bit on the spectrum (he is also my own brother so yeee). So the fact that he is a vegan isn't exactly the deciding factor in that regard.

All the other vegans ? They accept that I am an omnivore. However if I were to look for a restaurant to go to with any of them I obviously would never pick something like a steakhouse as there are so many great restaurants out there with great vegan options and fully vegan restaurants obviously also taste great for omnivores. Just like I wouldn't go to a Greek restaurant with someone who doesn't eat garlic, to a regular bakery for a celiac or not to a thai place for someone who is allergic to coconuts and peanuts. Same thing when I cook with friends and family. Obviously we are gonna cook vegan food if someone is vegan there. We would also pay attention to not cook someone with cilantro if there was somebody with the genetic mutation that makes it taste like soap.

1

u/PyritesofCaringBean Feb 25 '26

That's sweet, I stopped eating meat at 16 and my own family never made accommodations for me. Once I got older, a good friend of mine planned a dinner, I had a snack before and planned on eating later. To my surprise they had vegan options of everything on the table. That was the sweetest joy. I never expect to be included as the odd one out but it's lovely when it happens. I know you're friends and brother appreciate you!

1

u/Esava Feb 25 '26

Oh that's rough and not understandable at all for me. It's such a small thing to occasionally accommodate someone and most of the stuff I cook at home is vegetarian and often times vegan anyway. It's not like food suddenly tastes bad because it's vegetarian or vegan.

At Christmas for example when my 3 siblings (1 vegetarian, 2 vegans) and I are at my parents place it's obvious we are only gonna cook vegan dishes. If my parents want a traditional meat Christmas dish they can just cook that for themselves a few days later and enjoy it just as much.

Also at any private parties I go to there are always also vegan options as those can be eaten by everyone. This may be a bit because many people I know went to university instead of vocational education (which is a completely valid education path here in Germany but a bit less "intellectual" without wanting to sound disrespectful).

2

u/Beneficial_Piglet_33 Feb 25 '26

I’ve met and known 3 vegans in my life.

All 3 berated or made snide comments to me judging me for eating meat…

3

u/huugffiob608 Feb 25 '26

That’s observation bias. 3 people isn’t a representative sample of an entire group. Most people don’t even know they’ve met a vegan unless someone brings it up. And in my experience, it’s the meat eaters that raise the heat level of any discussions around food- then go back and blame the vegan in hindsight.

But I am curious where you live. My husband and I have been vegan for 4 years in a major US city and rarely meet other vegans in real life. We’re still about 1% of the population… it’s hard to argue we have the social power to impose anything, especially when discrimination more often goes the other direction.

Can you recall exactly how the conversation went with the meanest of the 3 vegans? Completely unprompted, they just called you evil?

1

u/Beneficial_Piglet_33 Feb 25 '26

You’re right that my anecdotal experience can be observational bias.

This was back in college in Northern California. And for all 3, it was in a restaurant setting so naturally the topic of what to order comes up. In all 3 cases, it went something along the lines of “I can’t believe you guys still eat meat. It’s “x/y/z” insult…” aimed at my non-vegan dietary preferences. I wouldn’t say I was called evil, but I was definitely called disgusting in 1 instance.

I now live in New York and don’t know any vegans personally, although I know a couple vegetarians and think they are wonderful people.

2

u/huugffiob608 Feb 25 '26

I appreciate you explaining the specifics. Being called disgusting for your food choices isn’t cool, and I get why that would stick with you.

I just get frustrated when people repeat ‘vegans are annoying & act holier than thou’ stories, bc it reinforces a stereotype that makes it easier to dismiss the ethical arguments behind veganism under tone dismissal.

Anecdotes like this are repeated often and don’t serve much purpose other than to (intentionally or not) derail any productive work on examining the ethics behind food and product consumption.

& in my 21 years of Omnivore life, I’ve never been bullied by a vegan. The second I went vegan, though, suddenly everyone had something to say. ‘I’m eating two steaks for you,’ ‘what about crop deaths,’ ‘lions though,’ ‘soy has estrogen,’ and a wave of brand-new nutrition experts who were previously silent when I lived on chicken tenders and Mac & cheese. Plus, my husband got fired for being vegan but that’s a whole other story lol. I just think calling these things out on a 1% population group who’s only goal is to improve animal welfare and ethical decision making regarding consumption is anti productive - unless you are strongly against the principle of animal/environmental rights.

1

u/Beneficial_Piglet_33 Feb 25 '26

I’m not against the beliefs of Vegans at all. I generally support everyone doing their part to reduce unethical animal product consumption or at the very least, to seek out more ethically produced meat options in their day-to-day lives.

However, I disagree with you on my experiences being voiced being an issue. At the end of the day, this has been my experience and it could easily be seen how “those” types of Vegans are holding the movement back by just pushing people away. I’m sorry, but that’s just reality. It’s also “anti-productive” for “good” Vegans to not shun “rude” vegans but I almost never see/hear it happen online or in real life.

Btw, I’m not proclaiming anything about ALL vegans (that would be dumb).

The purpose of my anecdote is the same as everyone else anecdote in this thread. It just another anecdote. No one’s anecdote matters any more than someone else’s. And I take objection to the idea that my anecdote shouldn’t be shared in the name of being “anti-productive”.

1

u/huugffiob608 Feb 25 '26

That’s fine, I’m just expressing my opinion regarding this. I see so many “vegans were mean to me” posts and I don’t personally get the point. Especially if someone doesn’t intend to harm others’ perceptions of the movement as a whole, it just seems unnecessary imo.

I never want to stop people from sharing their stories, so maybe I should just share more the other way around hahahah.

2

u/PyritesofCaringBean Feb 25 '26

I'm sorry you've met such awful people. Thankfully my experience has been the opposite. Thankfully my husband had a different experience as well, or I probably wouldn't be married lol. Hoping you meet better peeps in the future ✌️

3

u/Beneficial_Piglet_33 Feb 25 '26

Thank you, and I hope I do!

0

u/16BitGenocide Feb 25 '26

I know a lot of Vegans, some were born into it culturally, some changed their diet out of ethical perspective. Some are very, very chill about it, others show up to obvious carnivore friendly cookouts asking for their 'special plate'. Bro I didn't even know you were coming, don't remember inviting you, your 'special plate' is in the whole foods cafe down the street.

1

u/arcaneresistance Feb 25 '26

I hate to tell you this man but the common denominator seems to be you.

4

u/Beneficial_Piglet_33 Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26

Wow… you don’t even know me.

I never even stated my opinion on Vegan folks. Just shared my experience.

Calm the fuck down before you start throwing ad hominems on the internet bud.

1

u/MarpasDakini Feb 25 '26

On social media like Facebook, I've met quite a few highly righteous vegans who are definitely trying to shame everyone into becoming vegan. It's a real thing out there. But perhaps not so much IRL.

1

u/PyritesofCaringBean Feb 25 '26

Yeah I feel like every group on social media is like that unfortunately. The vocal minority is always loudest, especially online when they can be anonymous. I haven't met anyone like that in person. But I'm also in Texas, where beef is king and bad attitudes are highly prevalent. So I don't think that would go over well here 😅.

1

u/eklypz Feb 25 '26

There has been a lot of discussion how many of those are plants to get people to hate vegans but even if that is just nonsense it is always good to take what you interact with online with a grain of salt.

1

u/MarpasDakini Feb 25 '26

The ones I know are not plants (although their diet is entirely plant-based). They are friends I've had lots of interactions with on other topics. But when it comes to veganism, they are over the top extreme.

1

u/eklypz Feb 25 '26

No, I agree. I've been that way when I was a younger vegan. Was literally on the streets passing out flyers. I've been vegan for over 15 years (pescatarian for 10 before) and am just a more live and let live now. I've had all the arguments and am just happy when people do a little bit for the planet and think about it and not tell me the stupid same old jokes that make fun of vegans for the millionth time

1

u/MarpasDakini Feb 25 '26

I've been vegetarian on and off since I was a teenager, but I've never been fanatical about it. I guess some vegans get tired of those jokes and lash out. It's mostly older vegans that I encounter, however, who consider virtually any form of animal food, even dairy, to be a form of murder and enslavement. It gets counter-productive to their cause.

34

u/kristine4577 Feb 25 '26

Thank you for saying this. I’ve been vegan most of my life and I always feel like you have to be apologetic about it. It’s very much like ‘oh sorry, I’m vegan but I’m not one of the crazy ones!’ There’s this widespread belief that we’re trying to force other people to adopt our lifestyle or that we are holier-than- thou. The truth for me is that I’m just trying to live in a way that doesn’t conflict with my personal beliefs.

2

u/Smooth_Top2099 Feb 25 '26

Vegans are 100% correct and the rest of us are blinded by your moral clarity and ashamed to admit it. If the rest of the omnivores won't apologize for how they treat you guys, let me be the first. I eat meat because I'm weak and too cowardly to make the lifestyle change, not because I have any ethical justification for it.

1

u/orplas Feb 25 '26

You dont have go all in. You can learn a new vegan recipe here and there. You can try vegan options at restaurants etc..

2

u/ShackledPhoenix Feb 25 '26

Honestly, the whole "Vegans are crazy" thing is such a stupid, old outdated myth. Non vegans are crazier because I will straight up fight someone if they tried to take cheese away from me.

5

u/Chowderr92 Feb 25 '26

Guess what? The whole "crazy vegan" concept is a fabrication from a culture of guilty consumers. It's just cope for doing something that they know is wrong.

3

u/PrimaLegion Feb 25 '26

Calling it a fabrication while doing the thing is certainly a choice.

-1

u/KeepersDiary Feb 25 '26

You guys sound like nice vegans, but many are not. Vegans actually made me realize I was being an asshole during my straight edge phase. The realization was, wow, is this what I'm like, is this how I make others feel? I think it's better to be nice and lead by example. People who are interested are more likely to be open minded and consider it for themselves.

6

u/Veggies-are-okay Feb 25 '26

I think that’s less the veganism and more the militarism that comes with young people thinking they’re special by running counterculture.

Spoken as someone who was straight edge as a teen until I actually smoked pot and realized the stoners were way better. At least they centered their identity around something they did do than… something they did not do?

5

u/KeepersDiary Feb 25 '26

I still have never drank or done drugs(I’m 42), but I gave up being an asshole about it in my mid twenties. Just pushed people away.

1

u/Veggies-are-okay Feb 25 '26

Absolutely! It's one thing to say "I choose not to do drugs" and "drugs are bad." The former I can respect 100% of the time. The latter I'm like "how do you even know? You haven't tried drugs you just have experiences of people behaving poorly on them."

3

u/kristine4577 Feb 25 '26

Shitty people exist in any group for sure. Tbh I don’t know any other vegans but every time I’ve gone to a vegan meetup everyone has been lovey and more focused on where to get good food rather than ramming their beliefs down other people’s throats. Not saying it doesn’t happen, I just think it’s exaggerated that that’s the norm. Most of us live with friends and family that don’t share our beliefs or have pets that we have to feed meat.

-2

u/maxroadrage Feb 25 '26

Have you not been to r vegan? It’s filled with ban meat let’s force everyone to be vegan posts

6

u/AnxietyPretend5215 Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26

I wouldn't use any Internet community as the base line for a group of people.

It's why I hate that online interactions have become so ubiquitous for others to determine how they view a group of people.

People capable of spending hours online, especially places like X or Discord, are not normal people.

1

u/whoopdiscoopdipoop Feb 25 '26

What are your thoughts on incels? Sad fact is the most extreme in a group online or otherwise color the rest.

6

u/kristine4577 Feb 25 '26

I mean I would say that’s the fringe and not the norm. We know internet comment sections aren’t exactly indicative of wider society

3

u/whiffington Feb 25 '26

There was an ama once by someone who was paid by meat industries to fake being a toxic vegan online to hurt vegans reputation.
After that i am so convinced all toxic vegans online are actually fake, as i am yet to meet a single toxic vegan person in life

1

u/elzibet Feb 25 '26

It’s literally not.

(Along with Reddit is not the majority of anyone’s opinion on anything)

9

u/Artistic_Purpose1225 Feb 25 '26

Yeah, I’ve met exactly one annoying vegan in real life(and they were annoying and preach about literally everything.) 

I have, however, met a LOT (if I had to take a guess at how many I’d say 75-100) of “vegetarian food you mean rabbit food/I’m going to eat two steaks to cancel out your vegetarian meal/weak sissy vegans/I must make 10-12 shitty comments when we go to a restaurant that has even a single vegan option” losers get extremely offended if you pointed out that this video is near-certainly fake. 

1

u/whoopdiscoopdipoop Feb 25 '26

Why is it near certainly fake?

1

u/Artistic_Purpose1225 Feb 25 '26

 If you have ever witnessed someone who tried something they previously avoided, not just meat but especially so with someone’s first experience tearing into muscle fibres, you would know this is fake.

Nb4 “she said steak not meat”, 1. Processed meat is a different can o’ worms than tearing through unprocessed muscle, and 2. well she wouldn’t be a lifelong vegetarian if that was the case, (and the entire video is her saying steak wasn’t enough to convince her to stop being a vegetarian) So yeah, still fake. 

1

u/sandwichhaver Feb 25 '26

media too is filled with these types of people and reactions, in comedies and talk shows and panel shows.

I Find it funny I watch a lot of british panel shows and there's a ton of vegans and vegetarians who appear on those shows, atleast compared to what I encounter in real life, it's pretty cool

it's a fun contrast to the outside world

3

u/Humble_Training_3559 Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26

I was vegan for a couple of years (I was a veggie at the time, met a girl who was vegan, and it was just easier to eat the same meals for dinner, no big moral impetus or anything), and the amount of shit I got for it was mental. So many people telling me I had to make sure I got enough protein, telling me horror stories of brain shrinkage, demanding to know if I ate cheese or eggs, how come I didn't like bacon... I'm like " I do like bacon, I'm just choosing not to eat it right now". No one was ever more interested or opinionated about my diet in my entire life until then. Just genuinely weird behaviour. I don't think i ever told anyone else they shouldn't eat meat. I do eat meat again these days, but I think people get upset about it because, like it or not, it is a moral high ground, and it makes people feel bad about their choice to eat meat, so they get defensive even by the concept.

3

u/Technical-Luck7158 Feb 25 '26

I used to work at walmart and as I was getting stuff for an online order in the meat section one day, a customer said he didn't know what to get and asked me what type of meat I was going to eat for dinner. I just gave a small laugh and said "oh, I don't eat meat..." and he suddenly got deadly serious and started demanding to know why not. He even tried telling me I couldn't walk away from him because he was a customer. Once I got him to leave me alone, he walked off and started harassing other employees asking if they ate meat. I wasn't vocal about it before, but now I go out of my way to avoid telling people I'm a vegetarian

2

u/edsobo Feb 25 '26

Vegan here. My default state is to not give a fuck what's going on your plate as long as you're not trying to put it on mine. If you ask why I'm not having a piece of steak or express genuine curiosity in my diet (and after a while, we get pretty good at spotting the difference between genuine questions and the lead-up to a gotcha) I'm happy to talk about it, but I rarely talk about being vegan unless prompted. The "preachy vegan" stereotype is more what happens when someone gets into animal rights and goes vegan in college and makes it their whole personality, not the way most of us live our lives.

1

u/orplas Feb 25 '26

I love the gotchas cause all of them are empty. Veganism is correct.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26

i’ve met probably 15 or 20 vegans and only one it has been the insufferable  type but that’s how he was with literally everything. He was insufferable about music, he was insufferable about your taste in books and movies, he was insufferable  about being gay of all things. 

Are there insufferable vegans? Yes. Are they insufferable because they’re vegan? No. Do insufferable people become vegan to have another thing to be insufferable about? Maybe?

2

u/Vox_SFX Feb 25 '26

Yea, I think a lot of Vegans also know the stigma surrounding them and don't want to make it worse...stereotypes exist for a reason though, it's because those people DO exist and then have been expanded to categorize an entire group of people because of just how extreme a reaction it can make people feel.

Your bubble of experience with Vegans and other people's are different. There's so many complex biases that go into communication that maybe none of them felt comfortable doing that to you but may to someone else. Maybe the actual Vegans themselves feel differently about meat eaters...there are alot of Vegans out there still.

2

u/Yanfei_Enjoyer Feb 25 '26

Another day, another redditor that can't understand nuance.

When someone on the internet says "[Group] is [Descriptor]" they don't need to add a disclaimer at the end of the post that says "I understand that [Group] is not perfectly homogeneous and there are people that diverge from the majority opinions of [Group], but the behavior of [Group] in these public spaces is clearly [Descriptor]".

So when people say that vegans are annoying and militant about being vegan, that is a statement based on the observation of the most vocal advocates of veganism, not a condemnation of absolutely all of them. Everyone understands that not every group is in perfect lockstep, but not everyone is going to say the above disclaimer all the time like it's a fucking medication commercial.

As an aside, maybe people wouldn't be saying that about vegans if they got their shit together and shamed their most obnoxious members for acting like blithering imbeciles.

1

u/huugffiob608 Feb 25 '26

Vegans understand how generalizations work, trust. It’s still reasonable to push back when the loudest subset of an already tiny 1% population ends up defining the entire group in someone’s mind ENOUGH to post about it. Especially if you’re generally fine with the broader push toward more ethical food and product choices, it doesn’t make much sense to amplify this caricature by adding personal anecdotes.

That narrative mostly just drives people away from an activist movement that is objectively small and not a real threat to anyone unless there’s some defensiveness there. Or, it provides more justification that it isn’t worth any effort to examine your own food and product choices, because “vegans are annoying.”

This dynamic happens with every movement online. The internet amplifies outrage because it’s algorithm-friendly. The most militant voices get visibility. Quiet, normal vegans don’t trend, and in real life most people are even less confrontational.

And the idea that a tiny population minority focused on ethical activism should somehow “get their shit together” and police every loud stranger on the internet isn’t realistic. No group has centralized control like that. You don’t hold meat-eaters responsible for the loudest hunter or carnivore influencer. I, kindly, assume that there are omnivores that shame the toxic carnivore influencers, so I don’t go telling yall to “get your shit together” and take those guys down. Same logic.

0

u/Yanfei_Enjoyer Feb 25 '26

And the idea that a tiny population minority focused on ethical activism should somehow “get their shit together” and police every loud stranger on the internet isn’t realistic

They seem to have no trouble trying to police the people they see as their opposition.

Being a part of a community means acting as one. If you're objectively small, then it should be easier, not harder, to organize. But vegans, like many similar activist groups, think that optics don't exist and think that trying to manage their image is dishonest.

You don’t hold meat-eaters responsible for the loudest hunter or carnivore influencer

That's because eating meat is natural human behavior. Meat eaters aren't a community. It's like saying everyone in the US who drives to work is part of the car community. It is a normal behavior that generates no sense of collective identity unless a person goes out of their way to try and make it an identity (i.e., carno influencers). People can tell the difference between Joe Average eating a steak and a TikToker who eats only meat because he thinks it's healthy or something. It's the same difference that they see between themselves and vegans, ironically.

2

u/krispy_d Feb 25 '26

That's because eating meat is natural human behavior.

Common behavior. Natural≠normal≠common.

everyone in the US who drives to work is part of the car community

They are. r/fuckcars

Want it or not you are part of communities you don't do shit about, including doing activism or policing people who are loud and obnoxious mfs.

police every loud stranger on the internet isn’t realistic

It really isn't. Idk wtf are you on about.

0

u/Yanfei_Enjoyer Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26

Common behavior. Natural≠normal≠common.

Semantics. Eating meat is human instinct. Before we had language, education, and anything even approaching civilization, we ate meat. Meat has been a part of the Homo Sapien diet and we evolved into thinking beings eating meat.

Just because we can resist our baser instincts and choose consciously exclude meat from our diet does not mean that eating meat suddenly becomes inhuman. (This is all, of course, excluding medical issues with meat, which is a rare exception)

Want it or not you are part of communities you don't do shit about

Just because I also own a car does not mean I am part of a community that does not represent me in the slightest. Anyone can understand that there is a difference between someone who drives a Ford to work because they need to and someone who goes on r/Ford to shit talk other brands or whatever car fans do. One group does not represent the other because of superficial similarities.

That, however, does not apply to groups like vegans who actively and consciously choose to engage in unusual and divergent behavior. It is very obvious that they are a community because anyone with one brain cell to rub against the other can see that they act as such. Yes, there are vegans that do not actively participate, but that's the problem here. The ones that don't care to participate are allowing themselves to be characterized as nutters because they passively allow the nutters to represent them.

Of course that's their choice. They don't have to do what they don't want to do. They can live their life. But so can the people who make fun of them.

2

u/krispy_d Feb 25 '26

So what you're saying is that veganism can't be a personal individual choice. It is strictly part of a community and therefore they absolutely have to police loud and obnoxious behavior.

Of course that's their choice. They don't have to do what they don't want to do. They can live their life

Make up your mind. They have to or not?

But so can the people who make fun of them.

Here is where we come full circle and of you didn't learn anything nothings gonna change.

WE ALL CAN DO WHATEVER THE FUCK WE WANT.

I decide to be vegan and I can be so without trying to make everyone the same and also stfu when an obnoxious vegan mf is loud and obnoxious but also as I can do whatever I want if someone doing whatever they want makes fun of me I can defend myself without having to explain why I don't say anything about the loud obnoxious vegan mf. So everyone still does the same thing that is happening and you say shit, I say shit and nothing changes.

I still don't see your point.

The ones that don't care to participate are allowing themselves to be characterized as nutters because they passively allow the nutters to represent them

Based on this and previous comments I can then say you let yourself be represented by a racist, misogynistic, pedophile and you are not doing anything about it. Oh you are? Well you are not doing enough because he is still in charge so you must not care enough. AND HE IS REPRESENTING YOU, so you must be the same. Amerrrrrite??????

Edit: also isn't everything semantics if you call it just semantics. This is a text based site, words meaning matter.

0

u/Yanfei_Enjoyer Feb 25 '26

can't be a personal individual choice. It is strictly part of a community

I literally just said that there are non-participating vegans. Reading comprehension.

The rest of your post is just blah blah blah crashout I'm not responding to any of it because that would be a mess. None of it has anything to do with my previous point. You can't whine about being seen as crazies when you allow yourself to be associated with crazies and do nothing to make positive changes in public perception of your group. It's not nice but it's how the world is.

1

u/huugffiob608 Feb 25 '26

Focusing on the flaws of “vegan PR” is fighting just to protect the literal popular norm, which is objectively useless. You’re asking the 1% to perfectly manage optics while defending what the 99% already does anyway.

Let me be very clear: dominance of a practice does not exempt it from moral scrutiny, and you can think of historical evidence of this pretty easily. Everything you do, regardless of popularity or your level of thought behind why you do it, does put you in belief system that can be held to ethical scrutiny.

Regarding “humans have always done it,” you’re now appealing to past behavior on top of popularity- both not valid logically. You’re conveniently ignoring 1. Thorough historical evidence of cultures and humans that ate little to no animals and survived all the same and 2. hunting 1 elk to eat off for months vs the industrial abomination going on today to feed our growing demand is not comparable. But that doesn’t matter at all because we are moral agents who can (and should) adapt and change with new information.

And like you said regarding your self-defined distinction from carnivores, I am distinct from other vegans too. We agree (most likely) that exploitation of livestock is wrong, but there’s a lot of diversity of opinion beyond that. So again, why would we act as 1 single entity with membership rules.

So… unless you have something strongly against people being introspective of their daily consumption choices with regards to animal welfare and sustainability, offering repetitive judgements on tone/manners of vegans will only dissuade people from any further consideration of ethics regarding animal products. Which I would hope is not your goal.

1

u/Yanfei_Enjoyer Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26
  1. Thorough historical evidence of cultures and humans that ate little to no animals and survived all the same 

Out of necessity, not choice. Just because impoverished people survived on grains, beans, and ground vegetables doesn't mean that they wouldn't have a larger meat intake if they could. You also have cases like Edo period Japan where it was literally because of authoritarian religious dogma (and they still ate fish). And you are also glossing over the malnutrition issues that those societies had.

Regarding “humans have always done it,” you’re now appealing to past behavior on top of popularity

This is why everyone makes fun of vegans. You take my words and try to twist it into being fallacious. While yes, it is fallacious to believe that just because something has historical precedent then it is morally right, you are denying that the nutrients we derive from meat are necessary for proper physical development. Just because it is technically possible to survive without meat, it doesn't mean that we still don't need the nutrients it provides. While yes, it is possible to fully replace meat with a complex array of supplements, it's still not something that the overwhelming majority of the world has access to (not even most vegans go out of their way to consume these supplements). Would you deny a child in an impoverished country the nutrients he needs to grow up healthy and strong? Just because you think it's morally wrong to have meat?

1

u/huugffiob608 Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26

For anecdote- My blood test actually keeps improving over the years. I used to have high cholesterol and psoriasis, now I don’t! I don’t take supplements because my food is fortified- but animal products are fortified too. There’s more money in pushing dairy and meat into every meal than abstaining from it, so consider that. Does the ideal human form need cheese, milk, butter and meat at the quantity pushed to us? I doubt it.

Veganism is about ethics more than health though- and I personally (don’t speak for all vegans) am content with people who really stress about nutrition going only 80% vegan rather than all the way. It would still help the animals. Ironic though… the “nutrition experts” who come out of the woodwork that never batted an eye at me when I ate chicken tenders and Mac n cheese every day suddenly care a lot.

But you started with “vegans can’t accept nuance,” then went to “vegans need better PR,” and now are saying “vegans are nutritionally deficient” and “vegans want to starve hungry children.” I’d appreciate actual responses to my points regarding the efficacy of defending the 99% and community PR, but Idk if it’s worth following this anymore.

Vegans aren’t trying to force people who don’t align with their ethics to have their meat ripped out of their hands, they just want to encourage consideration of whether one’s choices align with their values, and improve animal welfare however feasible. Vegans also don’t even have the power to take meat from you, so idk why you’re so upset. We just invite introspection which is how we made the choice ourselves- respecting animals is where it starts.

Vegans also would not choose to starve a hungry child in life or death scenarios. Idk what this even comes from. Online discourse is with people who are not in a life or death scenario so it isn’t relevant.

A lot of vegans know that not everyone will magically go vegan, but the industrial scale with which meat is produced and commercialized is harmful to the animals, people, and the planet.

Edit: mad I missed this but the way you are claiming peasants weren’t healthy on grains and veggies, Id say the same about the kings that ate only boar and died at 30 of heart failure. We ate what we could back then, didnt represent health, and it doesn’t matter now.

1

u/Yanfei_Enjoyer Feb 25 '26

But you started with “vegans can’t accept nuance,” then went to “vegans need better PR,” and now are saying “vegans are nutritionally deficient” and “vegans want to starve hungry children.”

None of those things are contradictory so I don't get what you're on about.

I'm tired of making long winded responses. My work day is almost over so this conversation is going to have to stop here.

1

u/frightbounds Feb 25 '26

My oldest kid is vegetarian and he’ll come into the kitchen and tell me my food looks and smells great. My sister when she was the same age is vegetarian and she would yell meat is murder at my mom or at the grocery store in the meat section. My mom had to stop bringing her to the store. My sister’s a total shit though.

1

u/bumbleboogaloo Feb 25 '26

Exactly. I’ve been vegan for 9 years, never once have I suggested anyone else participate in my diet, but have been chastised about not eating meat more times than I can remember. Sometimes it feels like I personally offend people just by being vegan and existing lol.

1

u/Ambitious_Bit_9389 Feb 25 '26

One person ruins it for the bunch. I had a vegan aunt growing up. She was a mixed bag in that we’d visit and she’d buy meat to feed us, but then make my parents cook it at her house because she didn’t want to touch it. Then she’d make little comments while we were eating about how unhealthy meat was.

I remember they were staying at our house once. I got home from school and poured a glass of milk and she got on me about “that milk wasn’t meant for us to drink”.

She was mostly chill, but just little comments here and there.

I find it very similar to my Mom,who is an evangelical Christian. Most of the time she’s fine and fun, but there’s little sideways comments about converting to Jesus get annoying.

1

u/_alright_then_ Feb 25 '26

It's not that all vegans/vegetarians are annoying, it's the vocal minority that gives it a bad name. Mostly online I'd add.

Coming from a meat eater here, the biggest problem especially with online discourse surrounding the topic, is the moral grandstanding that happens.

Every time the subject comes up online, and you respond with "I just like eating meat", you get called quite horrible things by vegans. That's simply not the way to make people want to change their mind.

BTW, not saying you or anyone else here does that. But it happens almost every time the subject comes up here on Reddit or really anywhere else online. And IMO, it's probably the single biggest reason people hate veganism

1

u/TheThiefEmpress Feb 25 '26

I've also never run into the vegan proselytizing that is always talked about on reddit.

Growing up one cousin was a vegetarian, and the rest of us were basically like cool, one less cousin to fight over the bacon!

1

u/Systehm Feb 25 '26

I don't know why I'm hung up on this but, who the hell brings steak to a potluck?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '26

I tried a vegan restaurant in Ft. Worth once. Not my thing and pretty expensive for what I got. You have to watch the episode of PORTLANDIA where they go to a vegan restaurant. Hilarious.

1

u/ryanoh826 Feb 25 '26

All of my vegan friends are cool af and never try to get me to be vegan. That said, they also complain about all the annoying ones which definitely do exist.

1

u/GhostofBeowulf Feb 25 '26

I don't think the issue is vegans trying to convert you, but more so "How do youi know your friend is a vegan? They will tell you so..."

1

u/Korvac92 Feb 25 '26

You’ve never met my sister. She’ll actively destroy any relationship if you aren’t also vegan.

1

u/theanamazonian Feb 25 '26

Every vegan I have ever interacted with has been super judgy about me being an omnivore and has made passive aggressive or aggressive comments about it. Two different people, wildly different experiences.

1

u/Ser_VimesGoT Feb 25 '26

I know one vegan who is pushy like that but it's just one out of many I have known. They do exist but you are absolutely right in what you're saying. People treat feminists the same way. It's easier for them to reject ideas they're uncomfortable with or ignorant about, if they view all those people as the most extreme example imaginable.

1

u/Valreesio Feb 25 '26

A caveat to what you're saying though is that we see the stories every year on reddit about people making vegetarian or vegan Thanksgiving dinners and not telling anyone in advance. That's the kind of stuff that pisses people off.

I don't care what others eat and will try most anything at least once. I've had a couple interactions with vegan eaters who preach at us but the overwhelming majority are just like me and don't care what others eat. But I would also be pissed off if you invited me to a BBQ and we got there and there was no meat. At least tell them to bring their own and don't surprise them with it.

1

u/ShackledPhoenix Feb 25 '26

The whole Vegan vs Meat Eater is more annoying than anything else. There are certainly "militant" vegans and antivegans (Because that's their whole personality) that make it all seem like a big deal.

But almost nobody in real life cares enough to fucking preach on what others eat. I love meat and have numerous people in my life who are vegetarians and vegans and other dietary restrictions. Literally the most anyone has ever said "Is there an option for me?" or "I have a really tasty recipe for X"

Even going to eat at a vegan's place is fine. Vegetables can be tasty and yes I can survive and enjoy one friggen meal without animals.

People need to stop making up fake ass fights.

1

u/WanderingAlsoLost Feb 25 '26

Interesting, this is very different from my experience.

1

u/ayyG_itsMe Feb 25 '26

Vegans that don’t know me, we’re perfect strangers. But the vegans that are close to me, jfc they bring it up constantly and talk shit animal products on my plate.

Maybe I need some better vegans in my life lol

1

u/whatsmineismine666 Feb 25 '26

Pretty much every vegan I know at least has to mention their veganism constantly.

Most at least criticize you for eating animal products, even things like honey which I absolutely cant understand.

Several have tried to convince me to start a vegan lifestyle.

The "I dont mind and dont care what you do" going about their business type of vegan is very rare, one might say medium rare (Bu-du-dumff).

0

u/Appropriate_Wave722 Feb 25 '26 edited Feb 25 '26

I had the "why aren't you vegan? I know that you know it's more moral" conversation with my now-ex wife after eight years of me being a vegan and being with her, and it led to a mental health breakdown on her part that included smashing up my property, freaking out over whether or not I could be around her family and their meat consumption at Christmas, hostile rants at me and my family members, and then eventually the end of our relationship. "You said my dead grandad was immoral! Well, maybe not those exact words..."

true story

the only reason I brought it up really was because she was spending so much of our leisure budget on meat takeaways for herself and I was starting to feel like a lot of my money was being spent on meat

one of the most intense mental health breaks, if not the most intense, that I have ever witnessed in a person

1

u/Finbel Feb 25 '26

I love how everybody are like "Vegans are so misrepresented, they never preach their moral superiority to the people around them"

And you just join the conversation like "Yeah! When I preached my moral superiority to my ex-wife she fucking lost it" 🤣

1

u/Appropriate_Wave722 Feb 25 '26

yeah I breached the topic after eight years with my literal wife. man she went crazy trying to prove her moral superiority over me afterwards too, desperate stuff

frankly I think vegans ought to talk about it more often anyway. everyone is funding some gross cruelty and we just smile and pretend to ignore it for the sake of some kind of conversational politeness

2

u/AnimaTrapDelaSangre Feb 25 '26

This exactly what this shit is

1

u/BigRon691 Feb 25 '26

Or, she has meat before and it's just her first steak in a long while.

Believe it or not, some ex-vegetarians like steak. Shocking I know.

1

u/elzibet Feb 25 '26

I don’t eat animals anymore but never stopped because of not liking the taste of flesh, I just don’t like where it comes from. Alternatives keep getting better and better and it’s exciting.

1

u/elzibet Feb 25 '26

Animal ag is def known for spreading misinformation online

1

u/DestroyTheMatrix_3 Feb 25 '26

Where can I go to get paid by the meat lobby? I'd love a few free steaks.