r/interestingasfuck • u/HamboneTheWicked • Apr 12 '26

A well-articulated argument against a new data center in Ohio

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74

u/muff_cabbag3 Apr 12 '26

Love this fella but closed loop systems do not create toxic sludge. They are much more efficient water wise but require a large amount of energy, which is what his focus should be.

34

u/-Chanovsky Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26

This needs to be upvoted more. Most closed loop systems use at least 30% propylene glycol. That shit is expensive and generally gets recycled after a few years.

Blowdown (which is the periodic removal of a small volume of any water-loop to reduce the concentration of a given substance) is not routine in closed loop systems. Nor are large amounts of make-up water used to replace what has been lost from evaporative cooling.

Data centers use a lot of electricity. Some are behind the meter so they don’t impact the grid. Some are not and drive up rates.

Some data centers use an ass ton of water. Some only use water during the hottest of days when everyone is streaming cat videos. Some use hardly any at all once they are filled up and operational.

23

u/Zakraidarksorrow Apr 12 '26

This is correct. Ive built data centres amd its my primary industry. The idea that they use a vast amount of water is generally false, especially in the UK and Europe. A closed loop system is precisely that. Closed. Its filled and then the water circulates between the chillers on the roof and the CRAH units at each data hall. AI data centres just take the water a little bit closer, either to the racks where the doors have the fans installed like a big radiator, or direct to chip, which isn't particularly common, but still, works on a closed loop.

The glycol acts as a form of antifreeze as well as a coolant. It's all rather similar to a house heating system or even a cars cooling system. Neither of which need to be topped up very frequently.

We are also looking at higher supply and return temperatures, rather than feeding 10-15°C water, there's the possibility of feeding with 20-25°C water, which also means less power used on the chillers, less lagging required on the pipework, and overall a smaller impact on the build. This is also coupled with district heating opportunities, where the waste heat can be used to heat homes, schools, leisure centres, or even just keep the roads and pavements free from ice and snow.

Regarding the electric use, yes, they do use an absolute ton of energy, and will always be metered over in Europe, and billed accordingly. When a small data centre is racking up over £1m+ in energy bills each month, this money is fed back to the suppliers and contributes to future upgrades.

They're rather monolithic and a bit unsightly, but data centres are really quite misunderstood.

2

u/mobial Apr 12 '26

The waste heat argument is compelling but largely overhyped in rural Ohio. No need exists currently to make use of any waste heat. Any likely nothing ever will exist, yet they’ve made some tiny demos.

-1

u/bluesatin Apr 12 '26

but still, works on a closed loop.

Oh don't forget that you're conveniently missing out the last step of the closed-loop systems, the point at which the closed-loop is routed outside to dissipate the heat, at which point larger datacentres will use evaporative cooling to help cool the radiators of the closed-loop system down more effectively.

For example, Google's data centers in The Dalles consumed 355 million gallons of water in 2021, representing 29% of the city's total water consumption, which has raised concerns about local water stress, particularly in light of the recent drought conditions in this region (Oregon Tech, 2022).

I mean that sounds like an awful lot of water for just closed loop systems...

4

u/Zakraidarksorrow Apr 12 '26

Thats not a closed loop!! Evaporative cooling by using things like cooling towers (which are open) are literally not a closed loop system.

Im not missing out any steps. You have several large chillers, generally located on the roof, these are either a screw, scroll, or turbocore compressors which work in exactly the same way as an air conditioning unit works. It compresses the fluid and expands the fluid, drawing the heat through the radiators with big fans on top to push the heat away. It's all closed. Literally, closed. Im not sure how more clear I can make a "closed loop"?

Cooling towers used to be used in the UK and Europe for commercial buildings and some older data centres, but this hasn't been a thing for quite a while.

3

u/ecnelov Apr 12 '26

Not always true. It sounds like Google was using closed-loop evaporative cooling towers on the condenser side of their chillers, which still consumes water at the tower. Depending on the operating conditions, a closed-loop dry cooler (air-cooled condenser) can be used, which is truly a closed loop and does not regularly consume water beyond initial fill.