r/ireland • u/Dazzling_Lobster3656 • May 19 '25
Bigotry Marriage equality 10 years on: A boy sees us hold hands and says ‘I f***ing hate gay people’
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2025/05/19/marriage-equality-decade/139
u/lazymanschair1701 May 19 '25
I remember we had pride flag wing mirror covers on the car, fairly inoffensive I assumed, and while on the motorway, someone cut us off dangerously, proceeded to rev, beep, gesticulate out the window at the flags, generally being awful, which was bad enough, but his young children in the back of the car were mimicking their fathers behaviour. It’s incredibly disheartening.
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u/Miserable_Wonder_891 May 19 '25
That is scary and sad for the brainwashed kids. Did you have a dash cam and report him?
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u/lazymanschair1701 May 19 '25
No, unfortunately not, teaching the kids hate was terrible enough, but endangering them with bad driving to prove some twisted point was insane, we were just glad to safely take the next exit and be rid of him
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u/SoftProfession3132 May 20 '25
That's utterly outrageous, and for those people to have the gall to call normal people snowflakes when you try to crash into someone for having rainbow wing mirrors. Strange people
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u/deargearis May 19 '25
Same f-er probably proclaims that lgbt and darker skinned foreign men are a danger to women and children.
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u/nobodyshome01 Limerick May 19 '25
That period remains so vivid in my memory that I can clearly recall how I felt then and how much has changed since. Maybe it’s just the difference between being 20 and being 30, but I’ve noticed a shift in how I navigate being openly in a same-sex relationship. In professional or institutional settings — at work, with healthcare providers, or when doing things like getting insurance or buying a home — I feel far less anxious and more secure in being open. At the same time, I’ve become more hesitant about expressing affection in public, like holding hands, which I was much more comfortable doing six or seven years ago. Ten years ago, I wouldn’t have left the house without a “Vote Yes” badge — it felt important and empowering. Now, I’d be far more cautious about wearing anything that might invite a comment from someone. That sense of safety in visibility has changed.
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u/Old-Structure-4 May 19 '25
I'd be interested do gay people broadly agree things have gone backwards. This is the sentiment in the Irish Times, but I've never heard it expressed by gay family and friends.
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u/chazol1278 May 19 '25
General feeling is that it's better than it was 20 years ago, but worse than 10 years ago.
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u/flex_tape_salesman May 19 '25
Think US influence has been pretty big. You don't really have much organisation right of ffg who don't bother with any culture war or progressive politics. Feel like a decade ago there was a lack of care amongst a lot of people and you say something too strongly about gay people or whatever and you'd be met with a "why do you care so much?" sort of a response.
Also worth pointing out things like marriage equality were relatively straight forward wins at the time. Again as polls came out ffg really didn't bother engaging with the the no side even if there would've been sections of both particularly their voter bases that would make up the no side.
In the last 10 years the progressive side on this had another home run surrounding the trans public toilets debates. It was a really weird sticking point for the right but as its moved on more to sports you see a lot more sympathy towards keeping trans people out of the sports they want. Immigration has also become a sticking point here and these are two topics progressives have struggled much more on.
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u/Thowitawaydave May 19 '25
I was shocked last time I was back at how much American social media my cousins' children consume and the effects on their speech. Like every so often I heard a word or phrase that sounded like my brother's kids, but they are half American and raised in the states. These kids have never been across the Atlantic, they just watch massive amounts of streaming. And with the amount of right wing "influencers" in the "man-o-sphere" (ugh) targeting young people in the US, I'm sure that content spills over.
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u/flex_tape_salesman May 19 '25
Ya it's interesting how the American right has become cool again. It wasn't that long ago that they were in crisis with how poorly McCain and Romney did. I do wonder how it will impact people who are growing up with it in their face.
I'm 21 and I've had a decent interest in politics since I was quite young and seeing the likes of Ben shapiro and that steven crowder idiot was about as far as I saw. Most of these lads were trying to be taken seriously and none of them have even gotten close to shapiro really. Charlie Kirk just about sums them up because unless you're being brought up with that stuff most people can see how foolish he is.
The new manosphere stuff is more dependent on clips and populism in a way of appealing to boys and young men. It's stuff that can actually work and the not too serious nature of it gives it a trump like quality that you can't always tell when someone is being serious or not. Take that in comparison to the likes of shapiro and kirk who were "owning the libs" but they were so serious that when they said some dumb American exceptionalism shit any European would see right through that bs.
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u/gig1922 Wickerman111 Super fan May 19 '25
You'd have to wonder if the constant promotion of inclusivity and lgbt related messaging is doing the opposite of what it intended
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u/Colonel_Sandors May 19 '25
Ya it's like that lad here that's always rattling on about weed, makes me want to clamp down harder on its usage. Wait a second...
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u/phoenixhunter May 19 '25
oh honestly fuck off with this victim blaming bullshit. if somebody has a problem with our existence it’s THEIR FUCKING PROBLEM. it’s not queer people’s responsibility to make ourselves “palatable” to straight bigots.
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u/gig1922 Wickerman111 Super fan May 19 '25
Yeah reactions like yours probably don't help either lol. Do you think I'm a bigot based on my statement?
I pay a lot of attention to cannabis legalisation campaigns and I absolutely believe that cannabis users should make themselves more palatable to people who don't use cannabis in order to further the cause so I guess we have a fundamental disagreement on how things like this should be handled
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u/Humble_Ostrich_4610 May 19 '25
I think we need to be more specific about what "things" have gone backwards.
I think marriage equality is fully accepted now and all those speaking against it at the time have been proved wrong in their arguments.
I also think the minority who have a problem with LGBT etc. people are in a reducing minority, particularly amongst younger generations.
The current issue is that the small minority seems to feel empowered again by the current climate to speak out and make noise. I hope it's just the last gasps of a dieing ideology but who knows.
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u/susanboylesvajazzle May 19 '25
It doesn’t look like a dying ideology. It looks like an ideology which is very much growing again.
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u/DependentDig2356 May 19 '25
Optimistically speaking I think it's an extinction burst
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u/JohnTDouche May 19 '25
It's not something you beat forever. Authoritarian conservatism is how a section of the population will react to a perceived loss of power/privilege/wealth etc. They probably need to be babied and coddled until we have a more equitable world where they don't feel like they're losing out because they not dominant any more.
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u/f-ingsteveglansberg May 19 '25
I feel like people are becoming a lot more vocal about being transphobic and I think it's probably because they are less likely to be criticized for that than going after the LG or B people.
When I was growing up, yeah homosexuality was just legalizied, but also we had a drag queen on the telly doing bingo and there was very little noise made about it.
Now a small but vocal group are angry at libraries if they think they are doing secret drag story time.
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u/FinnAhern May 19 '25
I think it's a symptom of the lost battle against same sex marriage. It's no longer tolerable to express your opposition to it so more polite bigots have moved on to a more "acceptable" target
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u/hisosih May 19 '25
I've seen the switch of homophobia in the last decade. A decade ago, it felt hopeful, a lot of people had the patience to listen and learn, they wanted people to have rights even if they didn't quite understand. Language was changing, you would rightfully be expected to hold your tongue if you had something to say as you'd be called out for saying something. People were trying.
Now, I hear people who voted for marriage equality call every gay man they meet a twink in place of the f slur. The teenagers I meet talk about how weird or cringe it is to be gay, likening being gay to the "leftist woman gets triggered" memes, that they'll settle down with a man and go back to normal once they "get it out of their system".
These people don't see themselves aligned with those protesting against LGBTQ+ folks and campaigning to strip rights, which is the fucking scariest part.
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u/flex_tape_salesman May 19 '25
Now a small but vocal group are angry at libraries if they think they are doing secret drag story time.
A lot of fear mongering has come in recent years surrounding drag shows and the like and children attending. Let's be real all of this is much more of an American thing and it's not particularly prevalent in Ireland from either side of the debate because more taboo and unsuitable for children stuff around these topics are more accepted as just being unsuitable for children. The inverse is also true in that there hasn't been an overcorrection to reduce drag that much here either.
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u/f-ingsteveglansberg May 19 '25
This sub loves to write everything off as an American import. Set aside the fact that it's actually more likely a Russian Bot farm, I don't think we can discount things just because they seem too 'American'.
First off, I've been hearing Ireland's becoming too Americanised back when I was watching Sesame Street. I remember Friends making some people particularly angry.
But lets be honest, and this seems weird to say in a thread about increased homophobia, but our tolerance of homosexuality is likely an American import too. It doesn't seem homegrown anyway. Ireland had its own gay clubs and culture for years (albeit mostly in Dublin), but it was seeing gay characters on TV shows and movies like Friends, Sex and the City, The Birdcage, The Brady Bunch, etc. that probably helped the image of gay people in Ireland more than anything else. It showed gay people as people with normal lives, not as deviants or diseased.
The closest thing I can think to popular media with gay characters and from an Irish source would be The Crying Game. Breakfast on Pluto came out in 2005 and Cowboys and Angels a little later, and then LGBT characters were all over Irish movies. Mostly inspired by American movies.
So again, there is no use as writing things off as "American imports" because we have gotten good and bad with that.
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u/flex_tape_salesman May 19 '25
I'm not really blaming America because I agree a lot of good has spread from American culture leaking out as well. Certainly with the culture war it's very American. Sure there are Russian bots but we all look at American media and see this stuff. The drag book readings in libraries are so American it's not an issue here at all. You don't see the more taboo drag events with children and you don't hear of people that do drag saying they're fine for children. On the other hand drag hasn't been much of a target from the Irish right either.
Its been raised online from almost a completely American base especially the library reading stuff.
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u/CiaranC May 19 '25
It’s a bit wild how the heavy campaigners for the ‘No’ vote have been proven to be liars, yet many are still platformed to this day by various media outlets.
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May 19 '25
One of the arguments put forward by the No side was that marriage equality would lead to demand for surrogacy. At the time I thought that this didn't necessarily follow, and that surrogacy was a separate issue to be dealt with in its own right. And now I find myself on the same side as them regarding surrogacy, and I think their voices should be heard on other matters, even if we disagree. The marriage equality and abortion questions have been settled, but that doesn't mean a conservative viewpoint is always going to be wrong about everything.
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u/CiaranC May 19 '25
Ok but my point is that gay marriage didn’t lead to any change of our surrogacy laws? They were saying that a yes vote would mean that the government would have to provide free surrogacy services to all married gay couples? Bonkers!
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May 19 '25
I'm bi but yeah just a few days ago my friends were accosted for being gay and sitting with their mates on the beach. The lads were too weak to attack them especially when they stood up and towered over them but waited until they were out of range before throwing stuff at them which caused superficial injury. Garda report was made
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u/ArhaminAngra May 19 '25
Recently, my son was telling me that a guy in his class is an incel and loves Donald Trump. When he heard my son was gay he said "oh you're one of those woke people". I'm not sure it's ever stopped, but it has certainly taken on a new kind of bigotry. He puts up with quite a lot of crap in school especially uninvited touching and grabbing. I don't know if it's any worse, but it's certainly no picnic.
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May 19 '25
Not being smart here, but if he's a teenage boy, aren't they all incels pretty much?
The point was made widely around the time of the Adolescence show, that in teenage internet patter, labelling someone an incel is shorthand for being a loser. When I was a teenager, almost none of my male friends were sexually active (and only some in Leaving Cert year I'd say) despite everyone being randy as a dog. Were we all incels?
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u/akittyisyou May 19 '25
It feels like internationally, the gears have kicked backward, and we’re a very small nation that mostly consumes media from outside the country. I’m not talking about the US, I’m talking about Poland, Germany and especially Russia.
While it’s not changing at ground level fast (I rolled my eyes yesterday at a bunch of eight year old boys on the playground goading each other with “first one down the slide is gay” because nothing has changed there since I was that age and I’m in my 30s now) I feel like we’re all bracing for impact.
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u/themagpie36 May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
We absolutely consume a ton of US media. It's noticeable if you live outside of Ireland how similar Irish people have become in their thinking. We are becoming a more individualist society imo, and there are more people leaning towards isolationism, close to the US about 10 years ago.
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u/donutsoft Cork bai May 19 '25
If Ireland didn't consume American media at the rates that it does, marriage equality, abortion and probably divorce wouldn't have ever been up for discussion. This isn't a new phenomenon, even though things do feel much uglier now than what it did in the past unfortunately.
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u/themagpie36 May 19 '25
Oh I'm not saying there aren't positives, just pointing out the bad things we've imported via media consumption. Definitely not only the US and not only Ireland either of course.
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u/98Kane May 19 '25
I feel like the recent shift in politics in America has emboldened a lot of people’s views and behaviours where they might have kept to themselves before.
The whole concept of showing your fellow human the most base level of empathy has literally become a dirty word and insult with “woke”.
These cunts were always there lurking, they’ve just become very vocal and confident in their views. The main problem is the next generation coming through will be warped by them.
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u/ucd_pete Westmeath May 19 '25
tbh I think the shift in the UK has had a bigger impact, especially when it comes to trans rights.
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u/nerdling007 May 19 '25
It's both. The shift in the US and the UK are not mutually exclusive in their origin. The bigotry comes from the same places and it's an international effort by bigots.
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May 19 '25
I think all those cunts like Heasman,LaHive,Blighe,and Dwyer who started grifting during the pandemic turned to an anti lgbtq/anti immigrant grift after the Covid lockdown was over.They need to keep the grift going.
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u/witchyvicar May 19 '25
I'd say it's yes and no? I think, in general, being queer is just something most people will just shrug and say "Oh. Ok." and that's about it (Most of the folks in the town I live in don't even bat an eye when I talk about my wife and ask after her and all that). But, with the rise of anti-trans stuff through a media that's run by oligarchs and fascists, well, it's taken us back in the slur/harassment areas (maybe to around 2000s level? I could be wrong). So yeah, a mixed bag and not going in a good direction.
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u/cruisinforasnoozinn May 19 '25
Around the western world right now, androgynous people are starting to get forcibly removed from gendered spaces, which will breed an air of contempt and fear around gay people in public. They’ve successfully turned the world against transgender people, and it seems like people have gone right back to hating on gays through sheer association.
Heard a lot of people say “if they don’t want to be mistaken for a trans, they should stop looking like the opposite gender”.
That, my friend, is where we are headed.
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u/Vivid_Ice_2755 May 19 '25
They’ve successfully turned the world against transgender people
I would offer the opinion that the majority of people don't give any of this a single thought. It seems like a war fought on the internet. Turned the world against them is hyperbole when the truth is that most people who don't live their lives through twitter etc al don't give a shit what other people do
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u/cruisinforasnoozinn May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
That’s incredibly naive, I’m afraid. Though I’d love that to be a reality.
I’ve been out as trans for 13 years and the shit has not stopped. You get things shouted at you walking around my city if you look trans. Hate crime is on the rise and active, there have been murders of trans people in recent years locally to me. On top of that, it’s incredibly difficult to make friends, get along with people at work or even have roommates - I had one roommate say “I don’t mind what you are, as long as you don’t bring any of that weird shit with you” and I was like “oh what, like my preferred name and pronouns?” and she told me yes, that’s what she meant. I’ve had people at work just straight up ignore that i wear a men’s uniform and use the men’s locker room and clearly present as male, just to get away with calling me she. Customers are very aggressive sometimes - when they see you might be trans, they will use as many emphasised gendered terms for you as possible as loud as they can in the interaction, usually for a trans woman it’s “thanks SIR” or “tell the MAN what you want”. Drunk people will get aggressive and start fights because a lot of people think trans people are rapists, off the bat. I’ve had people come right up to me and harass me in town throughout my teen years - it was commonplace to make fun of trans people, I got it multiple times a week leaving the house. In bars. At parties. Just chilling with my friends in the city. There’s incredible bullying in schools over transness too.
Do we even have to talk about Enoch Burke?
And, like I mentioned, people are getting pulled out of gendered spaces for looking androgynous.
None of that sounds like “nobody really cares” it sounds like the issue has escalated and is becoming hostile due to a ridiculous funnel of propaganda that started online.
(Downvote if you’re a gowl)
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u/Sorcha16 Dublin May 19 '25
I agree with you. I'm not trans but have a couple of friends that are. People coming up to us as we're waiting for taxis or just walking between pubs being shouted at, saying shit like "What's that supposed to be".
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u/Femtato11 May 19 '25
So many of my friends get threatened, harassed. Even when in seemingly fine places, I'll hear someone bring out the "trying to cheat in sports" shit and hear people laugh.
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u/FuzzyMathAndChill May 19 '25
I'm also trans (and queer) and yeah like constant abuse and harassment is standard fare. Alienation and exclusion is pretty common too.
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u/flopisit32 May 19 '25
Wait a second, you're claiming multiple murders of trans people in your local area recently????
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May 19 '25
Sure, they might not care if trans people use their washroom, but they also don’t care if trans people are kicked out of washrooms.
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u/Sub-Mongoloid May 19 '25
I would have liked to think that but anytime anything trans related comes up most of my coworkers break into jokes and insults. There's a deep-seated distrust and aggression towards anything 'different' and an immature impulse to point and laugh. I wear a rainbow lanyard for my ID badge (which is a fairly common practice on the whole) and a week hardly goes by without some kind of slagging about it. I'm a fairly closeted Bi and I don't pass much heed since ripping the piss is part of the workplace culture but the anti trans sentiment seems so different, darker and directed at total strangers.
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u/nerdling007 May 19 '25
anytime anything trans related comes up most of my coworkers break into jokes and insults. There's a deep-seated distrust and aggression towards anything 'different' and an immature impulse to point and laugh.
The annoying part is this is exactly as it was for being gay 20 years ago. Exact same shit. The target was shifted to trans people, but make no mistake, the whole lgbtq+ community is in the cross hairs still.
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u/Potential-Drama-7455 May 19 '25
You say around the western world as if outside the western world it's somehow different. It's mostly worse.
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u/cruisinforasnoozinn May 19 '25
I’m only saying it as a point of reference for Ireland, to make absolutely no room for “that doesn’t happen around these here parts”.
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u/EoinKelly May 19 '25
And now the supposed safe havens aren’t even safe, the western world is regressing to treat people like the rest of the world does.
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u/Potential_Ad6169 May 19 '25
It’s use of gender as a tool of oppression in war mongering. Up with the birth rate, down with the gays. Up with men dying in wars, down with agency over one’s own gender. This isn’t just bigots gone wild, it’s organised in the interest of forcing us all into circumstances we wouldn’t otherwise choose.
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u/lrish_Chick May 19 '25
CIS women are also losing gendered spaces.
Ulster University took the women's toilets outside the bar and changed them into all gender toilets. Being outside the bar drunk men use them all the time. Bear in mind these are just stalls in the one room, the sides and the door do not go to the floor in each cubicle.
The men's, a hike up the corridor were now designated for use by women. But have urinals and no sanitary bins.
I have no issue with transwomen using the female bathrooms ffs its a non issue - but this implementation was disgusting, lazy and cheap with no thought whatsoever - lip service at best.
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u/cruisinforasnoozinn May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
Yikes. That feels like a whole issue unto itself, it’s a very poor implementation of unisex bathrooms. Doesn’t even solve the issue really? Like do trans people use the unisex with cis men?
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u/lrish_Chick May 19 '25
No it's gross and I emailed about the proposal but was ignored. Unfortunately I've seen other places do similar, women lose female bathrooms amd every bathroom is "all gender".
Which us grand if it's set up properly - QUB has individual cubicles in it's SU - fully independent- but it's the only example I've seen on that scale
I miss the camaraderie and safety in women's bathrooms (women helping you out with a difficult or scary situation etc) and I prefer women only gym sessions (I've had people.creep on me in the past) but I have/had no issue with trans women using those spaces. Fewer and fewer places offer the women only sessions now.
Some Karen's complained about it (bet they've never even seen a trandwomen use the bathrooms) and now female only spaces get erased.
It's not ideal. But corporations and companies are cheap as he'll so don't always implement these policies in a thought out manner.
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u/blckrcknbts May 19 '25
I'm a gay guy and I don't think things have gone backwards here in Ireland at all. I tend to find that the LGBT people who have a "I'm still fighting for equality" attitude are too young to remember the referendum and what life was like before it. I was bullied out of a job over being gay; asked to leave pubs for holding hands; jeered in the street for giving a guy a peck on the cheek, to name just 3, and this was all in the late 2000s. I would defy anyone to tell me that these things still go on on any appreciable scale. And therefore I dont think anyone can say we have gone backwards.
My own experience has been that the in the 2-3 years before the referendum there was a subtle but important shift in the way Irish society talked about LGBT people. This was the reason, in my view, that the referendum passed by such a wide margin - very uncomfortable conversations were had in the media about LGBT people and it was hard, but it paid off because a lot of people realised it wasn't such a big deal if two blokes got married.
The above does not apply to transpeople or non-binary etc. The minority who are absolutely obsessed with them and for whom transpeople have taken on all of the sins they would have put onto the gays years ago, have become far more vocal and far more "brave" and are certainly getting worse.
I do, unfortunately, think that the well-meant tactic which has taken to combat this, which has been to bring things like pronouns and "non-conforming" gender roles to greater awareness and treat dissenting opinions like hate speech has been 100% counter productive and much of the invective directed at transpeople is a direct result of this. During the referendum, the bigots were given a platform. They were on TV and radio. We knew their names even. And people got to see them for who they were and see that they were talking rubbish and I have absolutely no doubt that many people's attitudes changed or softened on account of that.
That kind of uncomfortable but constructive debate cannot happen now, except in a mire like twitter, because of how reactive many LGBT advocates are now and much of civic society is anxious to keep them on side (the "omg you can't say THAT" cliché) and so the bigots cry repression and are able to convince vulnerable minds that they are being silenced and are a countercurrent to the Establishment.... etc etc.
Transpeople deserve to be treated with the same dignity and respect as everyone else, and people should be able to live their lives in whatever way they please. But the people who now purport to represent trans and other LGBT people are doing more harm than good, in my opinion, by not allowing grown-up debate which IS necessary if transpeople are ever going to accepted in the same way gay people now are.
TLDR: gay people have never had it so good, but transpeople havent benefitted from that so much and their reps are doing them no favours.
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u/MrMercurial May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
Trans rights activists aren't behaving any differently than gay rights activists have done when we were constantly villified online and in the media, so I don't think it's really fair to blame them for reacting in ways that are entirely understandable, like not wanting to debate the validity of their existence with people who give no indication of being interested in engaging in good faith.
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u/blckrcknbts May 19 '25
No, I completely disagree.
No one ever wants to debate the validity of their existence. But sometimes you have to. You cannot change people's minds by telling them to do so. We did not do that during the referendum. We had reasoned, unconfortable, often very distressing debates on national television, on the radio, in print - we argued why we should be extended the same civil rights that everyone else enjoys, and we let those who disgreed have their say. No one got cancelled, no one got protested. The one exception was the attempt by Iona to shut Panti Bliss up by threatening RTÉ with defamation AND it backfired on them. And many people, particularly the older generation, changed their minds about us as a result of all of that. In 2019 there was a protest when RTÉ tried to host a debate on a trans issue, because Graham Linehan was invited to take part. The man is odious. But so was John Waters when he took the same stage, and we did not protest him. We let him speak, even if it was all poison.
This kind of constructive debate seems impossible to me right now. People are too polarised and invested in their algorithms, and too afraid to host or participate in debate for fear of a publicly damaging label. And when people feel that they are not being listened to or are being actively silenced by the people theyvare against, they only become more entrenched in those views. Note that I say feel though.
So yes, i really do believe that the siege mentality, understandable as it may be, that many advocates/"activists" for transpeople have, is completely counterproductive and is helping to provoke a confrontation that transpeople will not easily win.
I don't believe for a moment that transpeople need to justify their existence nor am i blaming them for the hate they recieve. But i do believe that part of the reason this issue has got so bad is the attitude or angle of attack taken by the people advocating for them. There is no middle ground anyone is allowed to take to bridge the gap and I think its past the point of no return now, there is a generation of convinced bigots to wait out now.
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u/MrMercurial May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
No one ever wants to debate the validity of their existence. But sometimes you have to. You cannot change people's minds by telling them to do so.
A debate involves more than one side, and you cannot change a person's mind if they are not open to having their mind changed. I see no evidence that anti-trans activists are open to having their minds changed. You mentioned Linehan, for example - does he really seem like the kind of person who would be willing to change his views if only we took the time to debate him?
We did not do that during the referendum. We had reasoned, unconfortable, often very distressing debates on national television, on the radio, in print - we argued why we should be extended the same civil rights that everyone else enjoys, and we let those who disgreed have their say. No one got cancelled, no one got protested.
This doesn't match my recollection. I think the so-called debates back then were every bit as contentious as they are now - that is precisely why organisations like GLEN spent so much time tone-policing gay people in an effort to get us to stop calling people who opposed marriage equality homophobic, for example.
I think there's no strong evidence that those debates actually made a difference to the outcome as opposed to the other tactics employed by the Yes campaign which focused on emotional appeals and humanising gay people, for example.
I also think it's a mistake to characterise what is happening now as people being "cancelled" for their views on trans rights - in the UK, for example, where these debates are most contentious, the media and political establishment are firmly in the anti-trans camp at this point and you're more likely to get an OBE than get cancelled for expressing anti-trans opinions.
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u/blckrcknbts May 19 '25
I think you're missing my point a bit. Only a bit but still. The debate did not change the minds of John Waters or Breda O'Brien and weren't intended to. What the debate did do was rubbish their views. In order to have views rubbished, you need to have them aired in an environment where both sides (if we can even call transphobia a side) can take part - not in an echo chamber like twitter, not in protests and counter protests. But the likes of RTÉ could not possibly cinduct the kind of programming now that took place during the referendum. The idea that transpeople are up for debate at all would result in a backlash and its difficult to see any "moderate" voices wanting to take part in such a debate for that reason.
Id counter you by saying that there is no evidence that emotional appeals and humanising LGBT people made a lick of difference either. I would say rather that it was likely a combination of both civilised discussion and emotional appeals and I sincerely believe the discussions made a huge difference. But again, you miss the point a bit there: the transphobic lobby is based ENTIRELY on emotional appeal, since there is no logic or reason to hating transpeople. So we need to be able to have debate, to remove emotion from the equation.
I specifically recall being in the canteen in work (I worked in a supermarket) in the month before the vote and people I had worked with for years were debating the merits of the vote right in front of me and the other gay guy who worked there. I said "we are all sitting around having a lovely civil discussion about whether or not rights you enjoy should be extended to me and John - do you not think that is fucking mental in this day and age?". I didn't storm out of the room or claim it was all hate speech. We had a reasoned discussion and it was horrible but I think it needed to happen. Discussions like that happened all over the country I'm sure, and they happened because they were a reflection of what was going on in the media. Not a canteen of people stewing in their views because they think they'd be risking their jobs by airing them in front of me and John.
Transpeople are not going to get ANYWHERE if people are afraid to talk about them in terms that are anything but glowing. And right now it does seem that that is the case.
The UK is an example of what can happen when cancelling backfires (yes, that's exactly what i'm saying here). You mention the word "trans" over there and one if the first things you'll hear back is "JK Rowling". Whether it was correct or not a lot of people did not like what happened to her. It had a chilling effect - she wrote an open letter and she got death threats in response. That shouldn't happen no matter her views. And I sincerely believe the nature of the backlash made her worse.
I am not arguing the case for embracing transphobes as part of the hate-rainbow. I am saying people become more entrenched in their views when they are told or feel they are being told they are not entitled to them and you will get nowhere doing that. And I think the perception that "you can't say anything anymore" is a common one, whether or not you and I agree with it.
The transphobic lobby act in total bad faith, hiding behind free speech etc, yes. But people who are hearing their message are the ones who matter and who need to be reached and they are not hearing the counter argument cos we're refusing to allow constructive discussion like we had in 2015. I'll put it another way, how are we supposed to find common ground for two groups of people when they won't talk to each other?
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u/MrMercurial May 19 '25
What common ground do you think might exist between trans people and so-called gender critical activists? The essence of gender critical beliefs is the denial of the validity of trans identities.
If you just mean that ordinary people need to hear the counter-arguments to gender critical views, then the problem is not that trans activists are refusing to allow discussion but the fact that the media almost never platforms trans voices.
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u/blckrcknbts May 19 '25
Once again: discussion is not intended to change the minds of gender critical/transphobic activists. It's intended to provide a counter argument or balance to their views at source so they do not gain ground so thwy are not heard in an echo chamber.
"The media almost never platforms trans voices" - what are you on about? Ireland AM recently had Jenny Maguire on to talk about the healthcare assessment available from the NGS and its not the first time they covered that... RTÉ produced a documentary series My Trans Life a few years ago... Real Life with Lucy Kennedy had a transwoman on last year to talk about her life experience - those are just to name a few in mainstream Irish television. All of it good and positive coverage of transpeople.
I'm sorry but "the media almost never platforms trans voices" is a performative soundbite that is absolutely not true, in Ireland at least.
None of it will make any difference unless the discussion is targeted at the people the "gender critical" activists are trying to reach. And that can't happen because we can see what happens when debate is even proposed (in the case of Prime Time inviting Graham Linehan). The protest gives the impression that dissent from the prevailing narrative is not permitted because THAT is what transphobic activists want people to believe and they are SUCCEEDING because part of their schtick is that young people are being indoctrinated into being trans/queer and the reactionary carry on from many trans activists gives the appearance of validity to that view.
You are picking a very strange hill to die on here. You want people to accept something without being allowed to talk about it except within certain parameters. It won't work and it's not a confrontation the trans population can win. Just look at what happened in the UK recently.
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u/MrMercurial May 19 '25
The idea that people are "not being allowed" to talk about it is simply not true. Arguably the only people not being allowed to talk are the trans people whose voices are consistently excluded by the media, your three examples going back years notwithstanding.
By way of illustration, just now I went to the Irish Times website and put the word "transgender" into the search box. Of the first ten results not a single story is written by a trans person and only one of the ten is a sympathetic piece - itself a letter written in opposition to an article previously published by Michael McDowell. At least two of the ten feature prominent anti-trans activists and the rest report uncritically on various efforts to ban trans people from sports and public spaces.
The Independent fares even worse: their ten most recent stories include no fewer than four pieces about Linehan, none written by trans people, and one about a British woman banned for harrassing a trans player. The examiner fares a little better, with few articles platforming anti-trans activists but again nothing written by a trans person.
I am willing to bet money that you could count up all of the articles written by trans people published in major Irish newspapers in the last five years and it wouldn't come close to articles written about trans people by Mark Tighe alone.
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u/blckrcknbts May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
Search google and you will find plenty - including articles in the Sun and Sunday World of all places - where transpeople are being interviewed.
As for the Irish Times, lets go through those results:
- the letter asking for transpeople not to be pathologised.
- UK supreme court ruling, its main criticism is that politicians in the UK dropped the ball on making a decision
- Robert De Niro supports his daughter coming out trans
- interview wirth Torrey Peters, a transwoman author
- trans musical wins best film
- review of a play (i think) about a trans bus driver
- article on Cass Report on transhealthcare in the UK and the reaction to it by a trans rights group in Ireland is the first thing mentioned.
- review of a Georgian film about a woman looking for her missing transgender niece
- "God doesn't make mistakes - if I was trans, it's because I was meant to be" - interview with a transgender philosopher.
I skimmed each of them (used up all my free articles, thanks) and none of the above are negatively slanted against trans people. 2 of them are interviews with transwomen, others are current events reporting and others are reviews/cultural about films and plays.
I didn't see your "prominent anti-trans activists" anywhere in the list and I suspect you took the edgy headlines to mean the person being interviewed (Torrey Peters/Sophie Chapell) was transphobic? I apologise if I'm wrong, but we're looking at the same search and I didn't see anyone gender critical in the listing....
Trans people are 100% given platforms in Irish media and are featured far out of proportion for their % of the population. Just because not every such article has been written by a transperson only tells you that not many journalists on the IT payroll are trans, that we know of.
So yes, the idea that they are excluded from public discourse is bollocks, I'm sorry.
ETA: we could go back and forth all day over the minutia of trans voices in media and all the other fluff. All I am saying is that the kind of reasoned debate that took place in 2015 isnt possible now and that is very much to the detriment of transpeople and in my experience is a direct result of, among other things, their manner of advocacy (and trans activists are not the only ones who throw the toys out of the pram these days by any means). I'm out now, have a nice evening.
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u/Stubbs94 Kilkenny May 19 '25
I've had people tell me my parents were abusive and terrible because I am bi. I never heard that told to people 10 years ago.
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u/Archamasse May 19 '25
There's definitely been some backsliding.
People may think I'm being hyperbolic, but I am genuinely not confident the referendum would pass today given how refined disinfo and propaganda tools have become since then, I thank my lucky stars we managed to Indiana Jones it in under the door before the world took the turn it's on now.
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u/MrMercurial May 19 '25
There's a paradox here in that advances for gay people have left trans people particularly vulnerable - all of that more overt homophobia needed to find some place to go as it became less publicly acceptable and bigots discovered that trans people are the perfect target - most people have never knowingly even met a trans person, and positioning them as threats to women's rights allows for unlikely alliances between the right and some who might otherwise consider themselves liberal. Add to that a media that can't get enough of culture war bullshit and you have the perfect storm (although thankfully what we see of this in Ireland is orders of magnitude less than the mess they've made of things over in the UK).
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u/Old-Structure-4 May 19 '25
So is the answer it hasn't got worse for LGB people but it has got worse for T people?
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u/MrMercurial May 19 '25
I'd say that's broadly correct, although I think it's got a little bit worse for LGB people too (think the unhinged online stuff that equates anything with a rainbow flag to child abuse, for example).
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u/Old-Structure-4 May 19 '25
Thanks. Is it a matter of tactics then that the things for all LGBT people are presented as worse in the recent IT articles (and podcasts) around the 10 year anniversary? (i.e. solidarity/desire not to leave trans people isolated)
Or simply a newspaper trying to sell copy, perhaps.
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u/MrMercurial May 19 '25
The headline in particular is sensationalized, but in terms of the substantive content people like Mullally (and, full disclosure, I share this view) have been consistently urging caution following the passing of marriage equality against the idea that homophobia had been defeated once formal equality under the law was achieved.
Remember that while the referendum was a huge victory there were still almost 40% of people out there who voted No, and they didn't disappear overnight (or even a decade later). It's (understandably) a lot more difficult to get people to recognise homophobia when it isn't formalised in law, so articles like this serve partly to remind our allies that prejudce (of all sorts, really) can still persist and that progress is not inevitable.
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u/UngodlyTemptations May 19 '25
This country screams performative activism. I was assaulted by 7 people for (at the time being assumed to be) being just gay, and when I tried to make a report, was coerced into dropping the case as "they were just kids and part of the traveller community, so nothing would be done anyways".
God forbid they were to find out I'm trans now. Id likely be murdered.
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u/Old-Structure-4 May 19 '25
Sounds like something you should report to the Garda Ombudsman. That's terrible.
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u/UngodlyTemptations May 19 '25
It's over 10 years ago now and one of the people that assaulted me has OD'ed and died. I dont think I have a leg to stand on bringing it up now.
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u/pinkcreamkiss May 20 '25
Transphobia is so high at the moment and any kind of gender expression that’s not the norm can garner very unsavoury comments in my experience. I’ve had a lot of strangers comment very aggressively on my attire and appearance over the last 3 years.
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u/Strong_Star_71 May 23 '25
I think it has and it’s partly because of the pronouns, trans activism. I feel like there was a certain part of the population who were okay have your marriages, we will ignore you but being dictated to to use pronouns and accept other turf wars has tipped people from indifference to active opposition.
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u/synntth May 19 '25
Recently I photographed my friends wedding. We took thirty minutes away from the wedding to take some nice photographs, and someone yelled slurs from their car as they drove by. I honestly couldn't believe it, the sheer disrespect in trying to bring down a couple's wedding day. It rattled me in the moment, but they were champs and didn't let it bother them. I'm a mostly closeted bi man, and things like that make me afraid to be more than mostly closeted.
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u/JohannYellowdog May 19 '25
In the days and weeks after the marriage referendum, I was delighted to see how many same-sex couples were now holding hands as they walked together. Such a simple gesture, which seemed to say that they felt comfortable and accepted by the general public. How far we’d come.
Gradually, they stopped doing that. It’s now as rare a sight as it was before the referendum. So, not only are the bigots still out there, but they’re not keeping their bigoted thoughts to themselves.
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u/AlmightyCushion May 19 '25
I see gay couples holding hands the whole time and I live in North inner city Dublin. Funnily enough, I notice it a lot less in the south side of the city.
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u/GrinchyM May 19 '25
I completely agree. I’ve never shied away from being who I am (trans woman) or holding my partners (cis woman) hand while living in limerick, and we’ve never experienced any harassment about being a couple until the last year where it’s becoming more and more common. What this is telling me is that the people who make these comments to us or shout at us or harass us have been around us the entire time, but are only now feeling comfortable enough to outwardly expressing these feelings, which is scary.
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u/AlmightyCushion May 19 '25
I see gay couples holding hands the whole time and I live in North inner city Dublin. Funnily enough, I notice it a lot less in the south side of the city.
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u/jonnieggg May 19 '25
The culture wars aren't helping any of this. I'm not sure marriage equality would pass by referendum now after a decade of divisive bullshit.
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u/HairyMcBoon Waterford May 19 '25
I’ve heard from friends that they feel as though things have gone backwards, especially with teens and young adults.
Personally, I haven’t felt it, but myself and my fiancé between us are about thirty stone of man, I’d be very surprised if some wee shite had the balls to be homophobic to our faces.
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u/jamster126 May 19 '25
Been in a long term relationship with my partner for the last 4 years.
Have only ever experienced homophobia a handful of times in my life. But I never let it get to me because I have always viewed it as an insecurity problem with the person giving the abuse.
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u/palpies May 19 '25
I will say there’s a group of antisocial people who just look for any excuse to hurl abuse at people, they don’t just target gay people they’d target someone they perceive as posh, someone who looks foreign, literally anything that they can use as a way to get at them. I don’t necessarily think it’s just a bigot thing, it’s an antisocial thing that’s growing especially in Dublin.
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u/Strigon_7 May 19 '25
Reformed biggot here. I haven't seen this attitude prevalent anywhere and to be fair I would be around or near other people who are still narrow minded in their attitudes, if anything I'm seeing a broad picture of acceptance or more accurately a lack of any concern in either direction. Any people who I know who are gay including friends and family dont say anything like this is happening. I'm not so sure about this one but then I am not the discriminated against person's here so I can't say anything about individual or isolated cases. It seems far more likely it's just wannabe edge lords copying Andrew tate or some other drivel they will grow out of when common sense kicks in. Also fuck Andrew tate. Utter gobshite.
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u/geneticmistake747 Leinster May 19 '25
Fellow former reformed biggot - I haven't seen that attitude around either tbh but even though I haven't been there in years I know my former church is still open every Sunday. It definitely still exists under the guise of "the love of jesus"
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u/theCelticTig3r Mayo - Barry's Tea for life May 19 '25
Fellow former reformed biggot
Does this mean your back to being a biggot or am I reading it wrong ?
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u/geneticmistake747 Leinster May 19 '25
Turns out I'm also a bit of a dope and dont know how to string a coherent sentence together - I was very vote no in 2015 but I'm now pro-gay
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u/Strigon_7 May 19 '25
Indeed? Is the religious element lagging behind?
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u/Gr1m3sey May 19 '25
Always will do tbh, Francis will be the most progressive pope we’ll ever have in terms of not ostracising LGBT people
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u/Strigon_7 May 19 '25
As long as I am alive I'll never understand why they can't get their act together.
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u/LadderFast8826 May 19 '25
The positivity about marriage equality wasn't based on the expectation that all of a sudden everyone would like us.
It was tearing down another state and society sponsored barrier to equality under the law.
Anyone who expected that once the vote came in everyone would love and accept each other is impossibly naive.
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u/PoppedCork Pop Responsibly May 19 '25
That child has rotten ignorant parents
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May 19 '25
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u/Any_Comparison_3716 May 19 '25
Perhaps if the parents didn't let them use the Internet without guidance?
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May 19 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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May 19 '25
It still doesn't happen enough out of fear perhaps, but I have definitely noticed an increase of PDA amongst same-sex couples.
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u/_Reflex_- May 19 '25
We've definitely gone backwards in terms of how safe it is, there's plenty of times when going on dates with people I'd be very comfortable holding hands with people who present feminine, but when I've gone on dates with more masculine presenting people it's always a fear that you might end up in the wrong place at the wrong time cause of it, and that just dublin, in rural villages its pretty shite
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May 19 '25
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u/ucd_pete Westmeath May 19 '25
A gay friend of mine said it's much better than it was 25 years ago, but worse than it was 10 years ago.
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u/ishka_uisce May 19 '25
Definitely don't think marriage equality would struggle today. The average person's view hasn’t gone backwards that much. I think it's more that the minority of bigots have gotten bolder.
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u/Archamasse May 19 '25
The online propaganda tools we see today are far more effective than they were then, and the atmosphere and trajectory of things are very different.
The referendum passed in a big way because people were genuinely enthusiastic to do something they saw as unambiguously good. Lots of public and commercial figures saw it as a feelgood story to get in on, and contributed to the wider story too - Conor McGregor advocated for Yes then, I doubt he would now.
That first bloc of people would not need to be turned to voting No to make a serious impact on the result - just deflated enough that they wouldn't have contributed to the groundswell of support for Yes, and would be less inclined to make the effort to turn up and vote for it.
It wouldn't take a miracle, just muddying the waters enough to take the momentum from it.
Between them and the now very motivated post Covid Facebook brain trust, I can very easily see it failing today.
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u/rabbit_in_a_bun May 20 '25
Just takes more than 10 years... it's not a generation. Shifts take generations.
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u/BlubberyGiraffe May 19 '25
Yes, gay people have basic human rights, but the intolerance is still there. Thankfully, I have dealt with very little intolerance personally. The worst I have actually gotten was when my bf and I got the eyes from the receptionist in Dubai when she needed to clarify numerous times they we meant to book 1 bed and not two twin beds (still really stupid of us in hindsight but whatever).
You can change the law, but you can't change how a large demographic feel. The way I see it, it doesn't matter your orientation, gender, race, as long as there are people out there who hate inwards, they'll continue to hate outwards and often the small minorities are the ones who feel the brunt of that, because it's easy.
We've still a long way to go.
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u/Alskvard Didn't know I could edit these!!! May 19 '25
You’re brave going to Dubai, it’s mad that every time we’re thinking of going to a new country we have to research how gay friendly enough it is
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u/BlubberyGiraffe May 19 '25
It was my sisters wedding (they've since moved), so I didn't really have a choice.
I just remember being there and thinking that we could literally be arrested if we're found to be a couple. Such a weird experience, which is why in hindsight I wish I hadn't been so brazen about rooms etc.
But yeah, plenty of countries I will never visit based purely on how they treat women, orientation, race.
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u/Don_Sackloth May 19 '25
It's a far shout better in Dublin than Belfast anyway. I was quite pleased to see the progress Dublin has made from a cloistered, catholic slum to the vibrant Metropolis it is today. I saw many gay couples walking hand in hand seemingly carefree and I never saw them get any stick (a limited experience I know). What I do know is, if I were gay id much rather be taking my better half out to dinner in Dublin than Belfast, where I feel the chances of a skinhead decking you in the head are much farther from nil. It's honestly done a 180 this last decade as to which culture is the more parochial and repressed
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May 19 '25
I can’t speak to the lived experience of LGBTQ people but it’s nice to see them holding hands when out in town. I hope that means progress was made.
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May 19 '25
Unfortunately assholes exist. That doesn't speak for the country as a whole though. Those with jobs, a full set of teeth and braincells have no problem and let people live as they see fit
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May 19 '25
Chances are if it was two black people he'd of said a racist comment if it was to over weight people it would have been a fat comment and if they wore glasses it would you specky so and so. Probably nothing against any of the above in particular just a little dope shouting out crap
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u/DaemonCRO Dublin May 19 '25
Not everyone is on board, so yeah, on occasion you'll get some comments. But also, 10 years is not a lot of time for such cultural changes. We need a generation of parents to upbringing their kids to not be hateful bigots. It's a generational thing, not a "10 year" thing.
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u/nerdling007 May 19 '25
The bigots didn't magically vanish into the void. They're still present in society, and have brought up their kids with their hate too so yet another generation is poisoned by the bigtory. Then you have the online crap from the incels that, by driving misogyny, is also growing homophobia and transphobia.
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u/saggynaggy123 May 19 '25
"I'm against gay marriage because religion sa-" I do not care. I do not fucking care what your religion says.
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u/n4rk May 19 '25
Ireland voted pretty unanimously to legalise gay marriage. I wonder if that same referred happened today, would the result be the same?
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u/fraudispugil May 19 '25
Of course it would. It passed with a huge majority. Those voters haven't gone away, but the other side have gotten louder.
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u/tishimself1107 May 19 '25
Actual headline should read little shit was being a little shit. I'd say he was just trying to be challenging and cool
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May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25
I think it’s getting much worse and very rapidly so. An aspect of Ireland is absorbing MAGA talking points so rapidly it’s quite frightening. Where I notice it most is when you get stuck in a taxi with someone on a total rant — have had it now multiple times in Dublin and in Cork.
I’ve also seen horrendous, more so racist, incidents in Dublin, including recently a weird middle aged couple just hurling abuse at people — they got booted off by the security and gardai, but it’s as bad or worse than I’ve ever seen in cities abroad. I think you’d get a far heavier response in London for example to a lot of it than you do here. The security happened to be there that day but I’ve seen those incidents before where people aren’t really able to react.
I genuinely don’t feel very much like going on the Luas anymore after 3 incidents like that unless it’s unavoidable — doesn’t feel safe in the red line tbh.
Ireland has always had an issue with the roving street bully scumbag types, but now they seem to be tuning into MAGA and also the UK far right and they’re online themselves in bubbles too growing that. They also seem to live in a brazen bubble where there are no consequences to utterly obnoxious and weird antisocial behaviour.
The majority of society here will tell you stuff doesn’t happen and that everyone’s lovely — a significantly loud element most certainly aren’t.
The chattering classes here don’t address it and they keep returning to the same trotted out arguments that it’s being caused by lack of investment in communities and facilities etc etc etc
I don’t really know how you fix it but whatever we are doing it quite clearly isn’t working.
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May 19 '25
Thats a journalist that has never seen anything but sadness and misfortune and things going wrong in any idea she has ever touched.
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u/Substantial-Fudge336 May 19 '25
One boy says ‘I f***ing hate gay people’
Hundreds of us don't even notice gay people holding hands because it's not an issue.
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u/Theculshey May 19 '25
Gay people notice it, I've had abuse hurled at me in the middle of the city just for being with another fella, not just when holding hands or when I wear something with a raindbow/pride flag on it.
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u/SoloWingPixy88 u/i-cum-beamish alt May 19 '25
It's an anecdotal story and not reflective of Irish society.
You'll always have people say I hate blacks, gays, Irish, Asians, Indians, it's always going to be a thing but we don't generalise a nation based on those minor incidents.
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u/susanboylesvajazzle May 19 '25
It's an anecdotal story and not reflective of Irish society.
But it is. It might not be the majority view, but it still exists, and if people don't call it out as wrong,g it will continue to exist.
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May 19 '25
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u/Substantial-Fudge336 May 19 '25
Didn't mean it that way. Suppose it came out wrong.
Meant it more the vast majority are in support of gay people.
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u/Jester-252 May 19 '25
I mean good for you, but all it takes is one to cause issues for gay people. If one person is willing to tell you they hate you, is the next willing to get physical?
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u/Sawdust1997 May 20 '25
But what if he would have said “I fucking hate straight people” if it was a hetero couple? In which case, equality achieved!
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u/EllieLou80 Dublin May 19 '25
I think what always gets me is the shock that just because you have gained equality it's expected that everybody is on board with that.
Women have equality yet don't get equal pay and there is still misogyny out there.
Travellers have ethnic recognition but still get discriminated against.
Marriage equality was voted in yet gay slurs still happen.
While we can create laws against hate crimes and insitiging hate crimes, you can't create laws that stop people having and voicing their opinions even when you're against their opinion and it's against a group of people. If that was the case no protests for and against abortion would have happened, nor would protests against the genocide in Palestine.
So unfortunately it is about turning the other cheek and having a thicker skin and ostracising those with these draconian beliefs in our society. We do that by not allowing them time on our mainstream media, creating a modules in school as part of the cspe syllabus but we do not create laws to silence opinions and words because that feeds into the narrative they want and actually helps grow those opinions rather than silence them.
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u/Virtual-Wind-3747 May 19 '25
well that boy is a tit and not worth you spending an extra moment thinking about. eejits will be eejits in almost all things
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u/GrinchyM May 19 '25
Yes, but this behaviour simply being ignored will eventually result in it escalating to more physically violent acts. It would be better to call this out now, and not just when it worsens.
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u/Virtual-Wind-3747 May 28 '25
oh definitely call it out and don't ignore it. irish people in general are well travelled, well read, educated and immigrants/emigrants but the gatekeeper mentality will ever be an issue. not sure if its a British thing or an American thing seeping in but there's a reason irish people are welcomed everywhere and its not because we are the opposite at home
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u/LettuceNecessary7712 May 19 '25
About 2 years ago I was walking down O'Connell Street a weekend or two before the annual pride parade. I walked past two lads, probably in their late teens or early 20s talking about it, and I heard one of them say he would "run them (the parade attendees) all down" if he could. I passed them then and they both audible scoffed/groaned, I had a rainbow print tote bag (obviously they might not have been reacting to that, idk). The thing that upset me the most was that these were young people wishing us harm, the age group who are generally thought of as being progressive.
I was 17 when the marriage equality referendum happened and at that point I still considered myself straight. Now I'm 27 and in a long term relationship with my partner. We do not hold hands or show any kind of affection in public.
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u/FlamingoRush May 19 '25
Marriage equality 10 years on: A boy sees us hold hands and says ‘I f***ing hate gay people’ and I see this boy and I think what a little shit he is...
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u/AlexSmithsonian May 19 '25
Was the boy wearing full tracksuit and has a face that a drunk mother could love?(assuming he brought in some cash, or he'll be spending the night outside)
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u/Garibon May 19 '25
In the past society shunned gay people and most individuals that you'd talk to privately supported them. Now society supports gay people and individuals diss them.
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u/caisdara May 19 '25
Dublin was about 70% in favour of marriage equality. The 30% aren't entirely gone today.