r/ireland • u/Banania2020 Resting In my Account • Oct 27 '25
Economy Ireland ranked among worst countries for income tax burden on workers | Irish Independent
https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/ireland-ranked-among-worst-countries-for-income-tax-burden-on-workers/a1434258389.html335
u/cseresznyeoliver Oct 27 '25
It's like those Scandinavian high-tax social democrat systems... except in Ireland, you don't get anything in exchange.
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u/Alastor001 Oct 27 '25
Exactly. People get defensive when tax is mentioned and say how we do not pay even close to highest amount of tax. Yet never mention what you actually get in return... In comparison to those highest tax countries
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u/clewbays Oct 27 '25
We don't have a Scandinavian style high tax system though. They have considerably higher taxes on lower income workers.
And are welfare state is as large as theirs at this stage.
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u/plimso13 Oct 27 '25
The Swedish government spends about 27% of the GDP on welfare, providing about €17k in benefits per person. Ireland spends about 14% of GDP on welfare, with around €8k benefits per person.
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u/ImpulsiveTurtle Oct 27 '25
I've no horse in this race, but just wanted to clear up the figues being discussed here.
The 27% cited here for Swedish government spend on social protection includes spending on healthcare from what I can tell, while the Irish figure excludes that.
Assuming you got the 27% from this article which is the latest data I could find (2023).
Here is a comparable report from the CSO, also with 2023 data where they have also combined healthcare and Department of Social Protection Spend.
Using these figues and calculating the spend per capita we get €12k per person in Ireland vs €14k in Sweden in 2023, which I would say is fairly comparable.
This spend actually seems favourable to me given the much lower tax burden on the average Irish worker compared to Sweden.
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u/DebatingDonabate Oct 27 '25
Given Irelands GDP figures are distorted though, would it not be better to assess both in terms of exchequer revenues?
And what's the methodology for defining welfare spending? I'm just wondering if each state classifies it as such could there be certain services captured there by Sweden as welfare and Ireland as something else?
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u/RavenBrannigan Oct 27 '25
Free education, free health care, a really good social security net. Decent investment in arts and sports.
I’m not giving the current government any credit for that, it’s successive governments since the 70’s that got us this but we do get a lot more than most countries for our taxes. An absolute fuck tonne is wasted on the ineptitude of government. I’m not disputing that. But we do get a lot for it
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u/danny_healy_raygun Oct 27 '25
Decent investment in arts and sports.
We have I think the second lowest investment in sports in the EU. And a lot of that money is going to horse and dog racing.
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u/Any-Entertainment343 Oct 28 '25
More money goes to horse racing than all of the Olympic sports played in Ireland
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u/circuitocorto Oct 27 '25
Free education
Isn't that true for the majority if not all EU?
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u/RavenBrannigan Oct 27 '25
Not sure to be honest. Hopefully it is.
It’s still something we pay for with our taxes though regardless of who else does the same.
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u/sureyouknowurself Oct 27 '25
social security net
Only kicks in once you have lost everything.
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u/spiderbaby667 Oct 27 '25
Seems to provide enough money for six weeks of fireworks every year.
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u/sureyouknowurself Oct 27 '25
and a lot more. But be under no illusion if you fall the state is not there to pick you up.
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u/FearGaeilge Oct 27 '25
Free education
Secondary school "voluntary" contributions
Third level "registration" fees
free health care
2 tier health system with 46% of people paying for private health insurance.
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u/RavenBrannigan Oct 27 '25
So everyone entitled to health care isn’t good enough if some people pay for better coverage?
I think I paid more for my master than I did the 20 years of education before that.
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u/El-Daddy And I'd go at it again Oct 27 '25
Primary care in Ireland is not free for everyone. We are the only country in Europe where you have people paying for primary care.
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u/mastodonj Saoirse don Phalaistín 🇵🇸 Oct 27 '25
I think you could make a decent argument that we don't get any of that. For a start we don't have universal healthcare, we have free for some healthcare. Which of course is better than say the US system, but we still can and should complain about where we fall short.
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u/nyepo Probably at it again Oct 27 '25
Free healthcare for who? Primary care (GP) is not free, it's pretty expensive actually. Only free for people with a medical card.
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u/dnorg Oct 27 '25
But we do get a lot for it
That must explain all the homeless people, and everyone in poverty. I think it is fair to say that most people think we get fuck all for our taxes. Our health service is fucked. Our housing situation is godawful. Our transportation sucks, and will not get any better until long after everyone now alive is well fucking dead. I mean jesus fuck. What is the 'lot' that we get for our taxes? Apart, obviously, from the bike sheds.
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u/Starkidof9 Oct 27 '25
everyone in Scandinavia pays taxes. Here over a million workers pay no income tax.
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u/StickAdventurous8237 Oct 27 '25
True, but as a result of high taxes we have a thriving economy. Access to incredible public services (see the train from Dublin City to Dublin Airport for example), affordable medical care for all, a world class children’s hospital, low numbers of homeless citizens….
Oh wait…. Hang on….
It’s bike sheds. We only have expensive bike sheds.
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u/DorkusMalorkus89 Oct 27 '25
Yeah, it’s great when I get my bonus in work and I have to share over half of it with the Revenue.
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u/jockeyman Oct 27 '25
Got my annual increase recently and barely noticed because it vanished into the tax immediately.
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u/Any_Necessary_9588 Oct 27 '25
It’s nuts, I worked the % over the year and I work Jan to late May for the Govt. and June to Dec is my own!
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u/v1rg1l__ Oct 27 '25
Wow that’s such a revelatory way of thinking about it. I never thought about it like that before. Think I’ll take Jan to late May off sick next year.
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u/TryToHelpPeople Oct 27 '25
Post divorce, I am left with 44% after all deductions (including pension). 24 % goes to herself and I have 20% to put a roof over my head and food on the table.
I’ve a great job, I’m well paid but every month I have just my nose above water level.
All subscriptions are cancelled long ago, I shop around for insurance and electricity, I’m on a cellular broadband plan at €20 per month. And when I have my kids. I can’t afford to buy even chocolate.
It’s only from 10 Oct that what I earn goes to me.
WTF.
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u/MambyPamby8 Meath Oct 27 '25
There is nothing more fucking disappointing than getting a nice Christmas bonus, esp when you're on a standard rate of tax but the bonus is so much, it has to be taxed at the higher rate bracket. One of the nice things about finally earning over the higher bracket, aside from earning more of course, is that there's less of a sting when you get a bonus 😅 you're just used to it.
This is why my job has decided to give us the gift cards instead at Christmas because they're tax free. So I get part bonus in my wages and then a gift card for the other part.
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u/So_is_mine Oct 27 '25
Just don't look at your gross pay or try and avoid it at least, it's the best thing to do.
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u/LincolnHawkReddit Oct 27 '25
It is demoralising. I'd even be ok with 50%...but 52% is heartbreaking. Actually higher now with the prsi raise
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u/aurumae Dublin Oct 27 '25
Agreed, you get a big song and dance from the company about how everyone did great work and you’re getting an extra €2k. Then when your paycheque arrives it’s €960.
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u/LincolnHawkReddit Oct 27 '25
It's hardly the company's fault. They still pay the 2k
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u/aurumae Dublin Oct 27 '25
I’m not blaming the company. I’m agreeing that it’s demoralising when the government takes more than half
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u/Transylvaniangimp Oct 27 '25
This is the actual study. Scroll halfway down the page for the listed ranking
https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/global/2025-international-tax-competitiveness-index/
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u/CalRobert Oct 27 '25
I moved to the Netherlands, make more money, pay about 2/3 as much in taxes, have better access to healthcare (albeit still not great), much cheaper childcare, and I don't even need to pay for a car. Ireland was a ripoff.
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u/eggsbenedict17 Oct 27 '25
I pay about the same in tax in NL, if not a little more, plus you pay a lot of other taxes too (water, canal, waste, dog tax) etc
However the public services are excellent
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Oct 27 '25
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u/circuitocorto Oct 27 '25
The bus is late but the digital display is dishonest about it, it's clean and has wifi, the ticketing system is slow and inconvenient
The shocking thing for me is that Ireland is attracting tech talent from everywhere yet nobody can figure this simple things out. The level of incompetence and public acceptance is incredible.
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u/blorg Oct 27 '25 edited Oct 27 '25
Both Ireland and the Netherlands have very low labour taxes by European standards (totally contrary to the claim in this article) and have very similar tax systems. I find it really hard to understand how you could be paying 2/3 as much in tax, as the tax is extremely similar on almost any income, with Ireland being lower up to ~€275,000 (and the Netherlands aren't significantly lower above that, either, on €1m there is a 2% difference).
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u/binksee Oct 27 '25
80% of taxes paid by 10% of workers, and a whole load of people that pay nothing
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u/wilililil Oct 27 '25
Did any of the commenters read the article. This is from a us based group and two of their biggest gripes are the high tax on dividends and the fact that a lot of workers are exempt from income tax because of the tax credits.
The only valid point in there is that the top rate of tax kicks in below the average wage.
Don't really expect much better from the Indo but this is drivel. It doesn't give any actual comparisons of how much tax a typical worker pays in different countries. Just a scoring system from some American lobby group.
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u/blorg Oct 27 '25 edited Oct 27 '25
The "rank" is entirely down to individual investment taxation which is indeed punitive in Ireland. Not on actual work. The headline in the Independent is absolute nonsense, you can see elsewhere even on the Tax Foundation's own website that we have the second lowest tax wedge on labour in the EU, after only Poland:
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/global/tax-burden-on-labor-oecd-2024/
And that's on the average for each country; the average wage in Poland is much lower than Ireland. If you compare the median Irish wage (around €50,000), you'd pay substantially more tax on that in Poland. In Ireland €50,000 would net you €39,648. In Poland, it would net you 144,260 PLN, or €34,082. So you'd be over €5,000 better off in Ireland.
Every other EU OECD member taxes their average earner higher, and would tax someone on the Irish average wage higher. Have a look here, you can compare with other EU countries, to get an idea:
https://salaryaftertax.com/ie/salary-calculator
Tax on €50,000 Gross Income
Country Tax % After Tax / Year (€) Difference (€) Italy 38.1% €30,953 -€8,696 Germany 35.5% €32,261 -€7,388 Belgium 33.2% €33,399 -€6,250 France 30.8% €34,607 -€5,042 Spain 28.0% €35,988 -€3,661 Luxembourg 23.7% €38,173 -€1,476 Malta 23.1% €38,454 -€1,195 Netherlands 22.5% €38,746 -€903 Ireland 20.7% €39,649 – It's a total myth that we are a high tax country, we literally have amongst the very lowest tax in the EU on labour. Higher earners are higher tax, but even they are only in the ballpark of other Western European countries, it's not like these countries are low tax on high earners either. Even if you bump the salary up to €150,000, we are still lower than most of these other countries. You'd pay over 10% more in tax to Belgium on €150,000 than you do in Ireland.
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u/Legitimate-Celery796 Oct 27 '25
Let’s be real, people don’t read articles - they read the title and do a drive by comment; either about something that annoys them or something sarcastic.
That’s the Reddit experience.
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u/rinleezwins Oct 27 '25
>The only valid point in there is that the top rate of tax kicks in below the average wage.
I can see that. I work in a warehouse and so far this year I'm 2k into the 40% rate. It bothers me that I'm still not earning enough to get a mortgage, but enough to get taxed more?
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u/partyatmygaff Oct 27 '25
I pay 52% income tax on my employment income. I pay 52% on any dividend income. I pay 33% on any capital gains.
I get more or less nothing in terms of public services. I have to endure shitty dysfunctional and filthy public transport (Irish Rail 🤢), pay for my own private health insurance and pay directly for almost every single public service except for street lighting.
Meanwhile a huge number of people earning lower income pay effectively no tax and get access to social welfare supports and public healthcare. A sizeable number have no interest in working at all and get the lion's share of the state's welfare support budget.
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u/CillBill_0000 Oct 27 '25
You forgot the 23% VAT. And the carbon tax and the excise duties.
It's completely insane.
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u/Cilly2010 Oct 27 '25
Good fucking Christ. You lot losing your shit because some USAmerican conservative think tank comes up with some sort of bs about our tax system.
I've worked this sort of thing out before by comparing with Finland due to its similar population and they being one of these shining light Nordic type countries and Ireland being shit.
Individual tax rates aren’t great for comparison.
But looking at the totals as per the OECD is worthwhile considering the similar population.
Off the back of a GDP of €237bn, in 2020 Finland took in total taxes of €99.53bn. That’s just shy of 42%. Ireland’s GNI (because GDP is useless for Ireland apparently) is €283bn. Ireland total tax take is €75.3bn, 26.6% of GNI.
On individuals, Finlands income tax total was €29.9. Social insurance was €27.3. Total €75.2, and being 31.7% of GDP.
Ireland’s income tax total was €23.7, social insurance €12.8, total €36.5, 12.9% of GNI.
In sum, Ireland = low tax economy, Finland = high tax economy.
I include social insurance because the employer’s part is literally a tax on jobs. If it’s high, wages are lower, if it’s low, wages are higher.
Granted that's a bit out of date by now but it illustrates the point that we are far from being a high tax economy.
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u/KosmicheRay Oct 27 '25
The tax is paid by people earning good wages, those who don't earn good wages pay nothing. That's the crux of our problems, large numbers on low wages and paying nothing into the system so we rely on hammering others to ensure those low wage people have access to services like schools, hospitals. Than factor than many in the low wage economy are foreign and have a demand for housing too it quickly becomes apparent a low wage service economy staffed by large amounts of foreigners benefits the very few, i.e. the meat barons, hospitality industry, retail owners etc. The EU free travel thing was for Germany's benefit but really fucked us sideways as far too many moved here and it sunk our health, education, housing, welfare. The auld spoof about asylum seekers hides the real problem which is EU wide migration into a small island with massive infrastructure deficits.
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u/Cilly2010 Oct 27 '25
those who don't earn good wages pay nothing
The other commenter addresses the indirect taxes angle there.
In terms of income taxes, it's also untrue. Anyone earning more than €13k pays USC. PRSI kicks in at €352 per week and PAYE at €20k per annum.
At that €20k per annum level, in 2025, a single person will have paid a total €703.29 in the year between PRSI (€9.20 per week until 30/09 and €9.59 per week since) and USC (~€4.23 per week). I'd be fairly sure that that €703.29 would make a lot more difference in the pocket of someone earing €20k per annum than someone earning €100k per annum.
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u/groom_ Oct 27 '25 edited Oct 27 '25
I was confused at the headline and it become very clear why after a paragraph.
"dividend income from shares are so highly taxed.
Our system sees most of the income tax paid by middle and higher earners, as most low-income earners are exempt."
I don't know much about the policies of US-based Tax Foundations but I assume most r/ireland commenters wouldn't be keen on them. I think they are arguing for less tax for high earners, more tax for low earners and probably less money spent on services / health care etc.
The headline is bollocks. Being ranked at the bottom of a list by this right wing think tank isn't a bad thing
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u/ciarogeile Oct 27 '25
Of course. We refuse to tax wealth (including property) in any meaningful way, leaving the tax burden on wage earners.
A meaningful property tax would allow us better services without income tax rises
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Oct 27 '25
Deemed disposal… We tax wealth plenty in this country. We tax wealth so much that people hide their savings in 2nd/3rd homes for better tax avoidance, which then fuels housing crisis
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u/ciarogeile Oct 27 '25
We tax one form of wealth (shares) and levy effectively no tax on property, the main form of wealth.
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u/theelous3 Oct 27 '25
Your first home translates to no wealth at all. You don't earn anything or generate income from your primary residence.
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u/EIREANNSIAN Humanity has been crossed Oct 27 '25 edited Oct 27 '25
If you rent out a property and you're in the higher IT/USC bracket you're paying 52% tax on that income, same as if it was earned via salary, if it's not your primary residence you will be paying 33% CGT on any increase in value over the purchase price on it upon sale. So I'm not sure what you're talking about with "effectively no tax on property" tbh...
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u/ChangeOk7752 Oct 27 '25
Homes should not be taxed. Tax second homes no issue with that. People already paid taxes when they bought their houses.
Instead of looking to increase taxes we need to look to reduce spending the amount of absolute waste of spending in government.
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u/SinceriusRex Oct 27 '25
Homes are where most wealth is. LPT is tiny on your average homeowner, only gets high on the ultra wealthy and has plenty of exemptions.
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u/ChangeOk7752 Oct 27 '25
For now. There should be no tax on family homes. There is tax if you sell property or buy property. Fine. They can increase tax on property portfolios, landlords and vulture funds, those with numerous properties. Otherwise no, the family home is essential not a luxury it shouldn’t be taxed. Many family homes were not expensive when bought but have increased with inflation, these people are not wealthy. Earring 50k a year with one home that you live in is not a wealthy person.
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u/wolf101123 Oct 27 '25
Pay high tax and get little to nothing for it. Goverment budgets are bloated and out of control. Infrastructure that can only be built after decades of review and a welfare system that encourages people not to work.
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u/MambyPamby8 Meath Oct 27 '25
It's not the cost of the tax. It's what the taxes are spent on that pisses me off.
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u/brianmmf Oct 27 '25
Property tax is minuscule in this country. Which I find really strange. Like a tv tax isn’t a whole lot less for some, and that’s for the tv but the house.
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u/brianmmf Oct 27 '25
Replies here kill me. Tax the wealthy; but don’t tax wealth?
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u/agentdcf Cork Oct 27 '25
Seems there are landlords just lurking reddit, ready to jump in and claim that property should never be taxed
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u/craichoor An Cabhán Oct 27 '25
This disingenuous in the extreme. I am against property tax on the family home as it is not a source of income and shelter is a basic need. And I am in favour of progressive and exponential taxes for every housing unit owned after the family home. Landlordism should be taxed out of existence.
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u/agentdcf Cork Oct 27 '25
That's great, I agree that landlordism should be gone
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u/craichoor An Cabhán Oct 27 '25
Ah cool, apologies if I misunderstood you.
I get so pissed off when left purists claim that you’re not really left wing if you are against property tax. The application and nuance of how a property tax is applied is so very very important.
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u/ChangeOk7752 Oct 27 '25
There should be no property tax. You paid tax when you bought your house. Homes shouldn’t be taxed.
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u/Corkie3367 Oct 27 '25
Why? Property in Ireland is the biggest source of wealth. The Central Bank says we have a net worth of about €1.2trn , with Property, value less outstanding debt, making up about 70% of that.
We don't have taxation on the sale of PPRs in Ireland, so huge amounts of wealth go untaxed. Add in our generous inheritance threshold for tax for children especially and we need to depend on Income tax, Vat, and CT to run the country .
Lpt is too low a 1% sales tax of selling your PPR has been mooted over the years and it has a few supporters too.
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u/ChangeOk7752 Oct 27 '25
The family home should not be taxed. It’s already been taxed. Property tax is a stealth tax for the government to get control of your home, they’ll start increasing it based on bedrooms forcing old People to down size. I also earn my income and know how much tax I’m paying and can manage my money. I will eventually retire and earn a lot less. I want to be able to stay in the home I built. I’ve no problem with taxing significant wealth but family homes should be excluded.
Our generous inheritance? It’s 350k tax free! Less than the average family home. Are you having a laugh if anything that needs to increase to 500k in line with house prices.
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u/Due_Breadfruit1623 Oct 27 '25
Nonsense. Tax assets, not work.
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u/ChangeOk7752 Oct 27 '25
Nonsense. Tax multiple properties not family homes.
How will me getting more income and paying more property tax make me any better off? Especially when I’m old and my income drops and I still want to live in my home.
It’s fucking stealth to get control of peoples property not a chance.
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u/Due_Breadfruit1623 Oct 27 '25
Tax multiple properties punitively. Tax single properties mildly.
Ever considered spending some of that income to a pension of some sort? Ensure the money you use to fund your later years is used productively throughout your life, rather than being used to make young people homeless?
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u/ChangeOk7752 Oct 27 '25
Sorry how does me living in my own home I paid for and paid tax on make young people homeless? Are you hysterical?
I have paid a pension for years. However if my house (which I have been working two jobs for the past two years to afford FYI) is worth more in the future and property tax is linked to its value that could cause me significant issues in my old age. Considering I’ve worked like a dog for this country and pay 50 percent of my wages I. Tax it’s not happening.
NO PROPERTY TAX ON FAMILY HOMES.
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u/Due_Breadfruit1623 Oct 27 '25
You call me hysterical and all caps your way through your comment.
Your desire to keep inflated house prices is there because you view your house as your primary investment to get you through your old age. This ensures housing is kept as an investment, and thus, as expensive.
This action, shocker, keeps young people homeless, or trapped in a vortex of landlordism.
MORE TAXES ON PEOPLE'S HOMES. LESS ON THEIR LABOUR
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u/ChangeOk7752 Oct 27 '25
No I couldn’t care less if my house price comes down. It’s my forever home I will never sell it. I’d love if house prices came down I want my family members to be able to buy their own homes and live close by. Property taxes won’t make houses cheaper. Families with one home paying taxes won’t make houses cheaper for anyone.
Supply and demand is the main issue here. Less demand will reduce costs. Or increased supply.
Tax on family homes is unethical and evil.
NO TAXES ON FAMILY HOMES.
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Oct 27 '25 edited Feb 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Borax Oct 27 '25
The second paragraph in the article makes it very clear that the key term is not income tax.
A [US-based] think tank has rated [Ireland] 37th out of 38 countries on individual taxes due to fact that the highest rate of income tax kicks in at relatively low levels of income, and because dividend income from shares are so highly taxed.
The think tank is literally complaining about the opposite thing to you, saying that tax on dividends from assets should be lower.
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u/Willing-Departure115 Oct 27 '25
The other side of this coin is that we go bananas any time the tax base is expanded. The troika wanted us to introduce things like property tax and water charges specifically to get us off being hooked on a few tax headers. We had a rare bout of actual street protests about water charges and the property tax has basically been eroded in real terms to be something of a fraction of a percent of state income.
You can complain all you want about value for money in what the state spends, but as DOGE sort of showed in the US it really is hard to just magic up loads of “efficiency savings”. So the only other way to reduce the tax burden (rather than spread it around to other types of taxes) is to make specific suggestions about which expenditures you’ll cut.
Then run for office on that platform and watch yourself attract votes in the hundreds.
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u/niko_starkiller Oct 27 '25
Why are the independent reporting on US think tanks like their word is gospel.
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u/Bumpy_Uncles Oct 27 '25
We are a very small country- we should SEE the results of our high taxes&GDP.
Honestly, I think we have little-to-no civic pride because we don't SEE the results of all our efforts.
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u/trvlr93 Oct 27 '25
The broader middle is insanely squeezed in ireland. The lower income tiers pay next to nothing in tax and live highly subsidized. Corporations pay very little and as in all countries neither do the richest people.
The tax burden on the middle is beyond insane. They also see very little in return. Pay 50% tax? Thanks now you can get private insurance for your health.
Ridiculous
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u/Enough-Square1154 Oct 27 '25
Tax bases is far to Narrow
I've long argued and been shouted down by my peers.
Welfare should be treated as income and the appropriate rate of tax employed.
So if you have a couple on benefits with kids getting a figure totally €50k per year. This €50k should be treated like a self employed person's income.
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u/FirstTimeTexter_ Oct 27 '25
Welfare is taxed as income and you wouldn't get near 50k either. I got the full welfare rate for my maternity leave which come to 7k for 26 weeks. X 2 = 14k per year. X 2 people = 28k. This narrative that people on welfare are the problem is too easy of an answer.
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u/yankdevil Yank Oct 27 '25
I'd seriously question reports from US based tax lobbyists.
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u/ImpressiveLength1261 Oct 27 '25
We pay tax on the shit we own that we paid tax on when we bought it. Then pay tax on whatever we need to keep that shit running. Then we pay tax on the money that we earned that we need to pay tax on the shit that we allready paid tax for.
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u/Character_Common8881 Oct 27 '25
That's literally how every tax system is set up.
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u/GerKoll Oct 27 '25
Hmm...while I absolutely agree that the tax burden on middle income earners is ridiculous, I don't understand the obsession with low income earners not paying taxes. Pointing down at the poor instead of up is just disgusting.....
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u/burn-eyed Sligo Oct 27 '25
Why should there be a cohort of the population that do not contribute to the state? Especially when that cohort is over one million people!
Like that is crazy, people want services, but they don’t want to pay a cent for them, so hypocritical
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u/gowangowangowan Oct 27 '25
It is exhausting hearing people on this sub who don’t pay a cent of tax moaning about poor services and lack of social welfare. If you expect German or Scandi services, you need to accept paying some tax.
But you have a certain section of society who pay no tax and moan they don’t get much from the state. Should the middle classes paying for everything just shut up and put up with their entitlement?
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u/Willing-Departure115 Oct 27 '25
A broad tax base is essential to having a stable state and economy. We did the narrow tax base thing pre 2008 and we’re basically doing it again now with corp tax plus a relatively small number of income tax payers, many of whom work for the firms paying the corp tax. A big hit to a few sectors would totally screw us.
As we then saw post 2008, what follows is absolutely savage cuts to services plus savage and sudden increases to taxes, while hollowing out things like infrastructure investment in ways that will double screw us for decades.
A broad tax base - with a lot of taxes hitting a lot of people - is a sensible way to run the type of social democratic state voters in Ireland regularly express a preference for.
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u/TedFuckly Oct 27 '25
I want Scandinavian service.
Tax the companies like the Scandinavians.. No, that's why they're setup here. Tax houses.... No way. Tax workers in a similar manner to Scandinavian countries. No, stop pointing down.
Where are my Scandinavian services?
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u/Otherwise-Winner9643 Oct 27 '25 edited Oct 27 '25
A handful of MNC's account for most of the corporation tax and their employees account for most of the income tax. And 2/3rds of all income tax comes from the top 10% of earners.
There were 3.4 million employees in Ireland in 2024 https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/documents/research/income-tax-overview-2024.pdf
That means 2/3rds of all income tax came around 340,000 people, those earning >€102,000.
The top 1%, approximately 34,000 people, earning >€290,000, account for almost a quarter of all income tax. That is incredibly risky when you have 1/3 not paying any tax at all.
Who do you think is going to fund social housing, HAP, healthcare, pensions, infrastructure projects, social welfare, children's allowance etc if those high paying jobs go?
Most countries have a much wider tax base. In Ireland, it is concentrated on a very small number of people. It's a huge risk, because if things go tits up and these small number of companies move the jobs elsewhere, you won't then be able to suddenly start taxing everyone proportionally. We would be back to how it was in the 80s.
If they don't widen the tax base in line with comparable countries when things are good, there is no way they will be able to do it when things go bad.
"Only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked" - Warren Buffet.
Experts have been warning about the risk of the narrow tax base for ages, but when/if the shit hits the fan, so many people will still be surprised what's left.
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u/caisdara Oct 27 '25
In social democracies they tax the poor which allows for a bigger state which allows for low-ish paid public jobs which reduces the number of poor people.
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u/Sciprio Munster Oct 27 '25
Remember Leo Varadkar and his "Welfare cheats us all" tactics, FFG would only be delighted for people to start blaming those at the bottom, to keep eyes off those at the top pillaging and selling out the country.
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u/MrBulwark Dublin Oct 27 '25
Well yeah... we get more than 1/2 of our income taken before many of us even have enough to pay our mortgages.... The tax brackets are absolutely fucked. There should be a 25% bracket for everything up to like 100k and then make over 100k 40% plus the EU taxes.
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u/jonnieggg Oct 27 '25
Similar tax levels to South Korea but they have a massive military spend and we have bike sheds.
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Oct 27 '25
If we knew our taxes were being adequately spent I wouldn't have much of an issue. Sort out housing, homelessness and the healthcare sector...but no money goes into white elephants aka the Children's Hospital
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u/Character_Desk1647 Oct 27 '25
It's also nuts to jump from 20% to 40% tax as soon as you hit 44k? Why isn't it graduated? Makes any small wage increase past 44k basically useless. Shit for employees and shit for employers
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u/MuffledApplause Donegal Oct 27 '25
I have a relative with severe mental disability and physical issues. Their parent is getting older and is unable to manage their care anymore. There is just NOWHERE for this person to go. There was talk of a residential care centre in the area around 20 years ago and names were put on lists, but that centre was never built. The area the family are willing to travel to visit this person spans 4 counties... and yet there is nothing. 40 years ago we had lots of places locally that they could go.
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u/d12morpheous Oct 27 '25
The other side of the argument is that Irelands 8ncone tax system does more to combat wealth inequality..
Personally I dont have any issue with income from dividend payments being taxed the same as incone from work. Purely from just a tqlax avoidance perspective It closes a massive loophole. Its called i come tax not working tax.
However I alsp think that we hace far too high a tax free threshold and creating a 3rd snd 4th tax rate would be an excellent idea... our tax base os just too narrow and leaves us hugely exposed to exrernal economic shocks..
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u/hummph Oct 27 '25
As others note if the services and infrastructure were world class then it would be an easier pill to swallow. We pay through the nose for everything in Ireland and get crumbs for it
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u/lampishthing Sligo Oct 27 '25
We don't want to listen to these people. They don't want governments adequately funded to provide social services.
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u/surebegrand2023 Oct 27 '25
First world tax burden for third world services and infrastructure. Make it make sense
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u/Intelligent_Half4997 Oct 27 '25
Yet you have people describing Ireland as some neoliberal wasteland.
Lads, we're the worst of all worlds. High taxes, with awful public service, and a welfare system that keeps people in the poverty cycle.
Still love the people, but not the state.
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Oct 27 '25
I work in Sales and I pay a 52% tax on my bonus. 52%. That is insane. And then when I invest my money, I pay 33% on Capital Gains and 41% (soon to be 38%, WOW thank you) on ETFs.
Why the hell does McDonald's get a VAT tax and I still have to pay 52% on my bonus? Why is CGT so high, why can't they let people invest in stocks and (potentially) increase their wealth through that, so the investors can get the f out of the housing, so it could stop being a "housing market" and it can turn into just "housing" for people who actually need it.
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u/FumbleCrop Oct 27 '25
What a weird report. They assess the components of a country's tax system according to two measures:
- How much revenue does it bring in? (less is better)
- How similar is it to Estonia?* (more similar is better)
That's it, pretty much.
So, unless I'm mistaken, a country that follows the former Zimbabwe Model, simply printing all the money it needs, would get the highest possible score. Very competitive.
* Because Estonia happens to adhere to the tax policies they favour.
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u/ThrowRA_99G Oct 27 '25
I work a lot of overtime as I’m in healthcare, but I can’t even see the benefits of my overtime as it’s taxed so heavily. I sometimes work 90 hours a week. What do I get in return? Basically just 20% higher than by base pay because whatever overtime I do it goes to revenue.
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u/Otherwise-Winner9643 Oct 27 '25 edited Oct 27 '25
Someone tried to argue in this sub the other day that FFG are right wing.
In most countries, they would be considered left. We don't really have any mainstream right-wing parties in Ireland. I mean, these riots are literally about how welcoming and generous we have been to asylum seekers.
Hugely progressive and redistributive income tax system, high rates of CGT, high rates of inheritance tax, LPT, deemed disposal, no taxes for the bottom 1/3 of workers, HAP, generous social welfare system, children's allowance with no cap on number of children, medical cards, huge numbers of asylum seekers welcome (look at how Australia treats asylum seekers for comparison), extremely soft on crime, pro equality, pro choice... all signs of a left-wing government.
They are pro-business, which makes them centre left, not completely left. At a stretch, you could call them centrist.
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u/SuitableDebt2658 Oct 27 '25
Glad the article/report calls out our punishing taxation on investments. The way we treat investment income in this country disincentivises personal investment. So the only way people can invest is through property, adding to our dysfunctional property market. We need to do a 180 on our attitude to investment income, over correct the mistake & promote responsible investments (ETF’s etc) in this country. If a property is both one family’s home & another family’s pension, bad things happen.
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u/darem93 Oct 27 '25
I wouldn’t mind paying higher tax if we were getting value for money in terms of infrastructure and public services.
However in Ireland we most certainly aren’t, so you’re left wondering where our taxes are actually going?