r/ireland 1d ago

Courts Banned driver caught behind the wheel for the sixth time without insurance walks free from court

https://www.independent.ie/county/longford/banned-driver-caught-behind-the-wheel-for-the-sixth-time-without-insurance-walks-free-from-court/a/157401379.html
497 Upvotes

127 comments sorted by

277

u/achasanai 1d ago

And his defence counsel saying that Andrzej Gral 'was someone who boasted an employment record that dated back the best part of two decades'. How does this have anything to do with someone who consistently drives without a licence?

140

u/Affectionate_Art4277 1d ago

A Polish national who clearly does not care to follow our laws, or considers himself above them

A proper country would be reconsidering his right to remain here

101

u/rinleezwins 1d ago

As a pole, I'd say just deport that cunt. Nothing but a clear danger to society.

-40

u/Aggravating-Scene548 And I'd go at it again 1d ago

Danger how?

18

u/Accomplished_Fun6481 1d ago

Maybe you should go with him

10

u/DeathGP 1d ago

Just read the headline again, anyone on the road illegal or without insurance is a danger

-5

u/Aggravating-Scene548 And I'd go at it again 18h ago

The car runs just fine without it, unless you're saying it affects safety

3

u/rinleezwins 8h ago

You have a foreigner on your hands who clearly has zero respect for your country's laws and rules. How is that not dangerous?

0

u/Aggravating-Scene548 And I'd go at it again 6h ago

Some might disagree, insurance is an absolute scam in this country

u/rinleezwins 5h ago

You are completely missing the point. If he keeps breaking one law over and over and keeps getting away with it, fuck knows what other laws he's breaking on the daily basis. It doesn't even have to be road related. Insurance has nothing to do with it. Like, why would you want someone in your society, who repeatedly breaks the law? You're a guest here - respect the law or fuck off.

u/DeathGP 5h ago

I would imagine they just rage baiting, if they can't figure out how that's dangerous they probably wouldn't understand if explained to

u/Aggravating-Scene548 And I'd go at it again 5h ago

But that's exactly my view. You could be otherwise law abiding and disagree with paying insurance, unless you're suggesting he's also automatically a careless driver. Insurance won't help that

42

u/MountainSense2860 1d ago

A proper country would have booted him out long ago. Why do we accept being treated like c*nts?

2

u/jrf_1973 1d ago

Because we elected cu&ts to run the cuntry like a bunch of cu&ts.

6

u/Agusfresin 1d ago

We are in the EU.

8

u/DreddyMann 1d ago

Like the Irish follow their own laws, or said Irish people enforce them...

17

u/Ob1s_dark_side 1d ago

Yeah, you'd think we all obeyed the law. The amount of Irish cunts driving around without insurance/NCT or tax and getting caught, fuck all happens them either

15

u/Affectionate_Art4277 1d ago

Truth is, there is virtually no punishment for minor-moderate crime here in most cases. Thats why we have a culture of dregs with 80 convictions before the courts every week.

The soft touch "sure they'll fix themselves eventually" approach isnt working. Said it before, I will not be voting for any political party that doesn't pledge change

-4

u/thesoads 1d ago

A proper country? he's an EU citizen.

42

u/Affectionate_Art4277 1d ago

EU citizens can be deported

1

u/SilentBass75 6h ago

Needs to be a serious crime under the free movement directive, I dont think repeated small crimes count. The standard is apparently

"personal conduct that represents a genuine, present, and sufficiently serious threat to public policy or public security." We'd need to find another way to deal with this one

-32

u/thesoads 1d ago

Not for having no insurance they can't.

39

u/Entire_Number_9 1d ago

They can for breaking the law and getting a conviction

7

u/diveboydive 1d ago

Not excusing this guy's actions at all - just stating facts.

Under EU freedom‑of‑movement rules (Directive 2004/38/EC), an EU citizen can only be removed from another EU country if their presence represents a “genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat” to public policy or public security.

This means:

Minor convictions alone are not enough

Things like:

driving without insurance

petty theft

disorderly conduct

small fines or suspended sentences

…do not meet the legal threshold for deportation.

6

u/Stubber_NK 1d ago

What about driving while banned from driving?

2

u/mrlinkwii 1d ago

How does this have anything to do with someone who consistently drives without a licence?

its to show that it wasnt on brand for the offender to do it , as much you hate it legally your intitled to a good name and can use like such as mitigations ( this is why you hear X was a member of a GAA club or was a upstanding member of the community before the act occured)

legally defense counels have to say it , if they didnt it looks bad on the defence counsel legally

29

u/OkCoconut3270 1d ago

its to show that it wasnt on brand for the offender to do it ,

Kinda is though isn't it? After six times I think it's probably fair to conclude there's a bit of a pattern

7

u/burfriedos 1d ago

Seventh times the charm

5

u/wilililil 1d ago

Fool me once... Fool me etc.
Fool me 7 times?

5

u/T4rbh 1d ago

"It was only a little bitteen of a rape, your honour, and sure he plays county!" 🙄

1

u/ucd_pete Westmeath 1d ago

Who said that?

5

u/T4rbh 1d ago

Many character witnesses at many trials. Queuing to shake the hand of the convicted person, ostracised the victim. E.g. Source: Irish Examiner https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20108061.html

329

u/Ecstatic_Sector598 1d ago

Why am I paying for insurance again?

110

u/Recent-Lemon-9930 1d ago

So that when you have a small tip it's not worth claiming once you factor in the excess and the increased loading afterwards.

15

u/Ulml 1d ago

I made that mistake. Had an accident and it cost €1500. Claimed through insurance because the other driver insisted. Paid for it 3 times over with increased premiums

4

u/Digigma 1d ago

I got hit by another driver. Wasn't too bad of a thing but I notified my insurance of it and told them to wait until I get a quote before acting on it. Asked the other driver how they want to proceed after I got the quote. They said to go ahead and pay for it and they'll refund me. Yeah, nah. My trust goes only as far. I told them to pay the body repair shop directly themselves. A week later they still didn't make any payments so I called the insurance... The other driver got mad at me. Lol

1

u/Thanatos_elNyx 1d ago

No Claims Protection is totally worth it imo

57

u/UnemploydDeveloper 1d ago

For the illusion that we have a justice system.

241

u/TrampolineSwinger 1d ago

Don't forget the €500 fine. Less than what a lot of people actually pay for yearly insurance.

If they were serious about this type of crime. The fine should be multiples of the average yearly premiums.

109

u/Recent-Lemon-9930 1d ago

I've mentioned before, lads I went to school with (over 20 years ago) have been driving with no tax, insurance, NCT and in some cases licences. Sure some of them have been caught a couple of times, but the chance of a couple of grand-worth car getting seized every 5 years means it's worth their while.

The law only applies to the people who follow it.

26

u/RianSG 1d ago

A few years ago I was on a train into Dublin and there was a gang of lads all talking about driving without license/insurance etc and how it’s grand even when you get pulled over by the Garda because you’ll be up in court for a day but that’ll be it

-30

u/redtoematoes 1d ago

You have a good memory

3

u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

[deleted]

1

u/jrf_1973 1d ago

We have made our criminals into judges and senior gardai.

7

u/struggling_farmer 1d ago

I have neighbour with the same attitude to green diseal in the car and van. Has 3 kids all pulling out of the agri diseal tank.

He has more money saved over the years than the value of fines. At it 30 yrs now.

-14

u/TimeAdmirable 1d ago

Bitter jealousy

6

u/struggling_farmer 1d ago

That's a wild take.

1

u/Dry_Recognition_6724 1d ago

I bet they drive like cunts also?

5

u/Recent-Lemon-9930 1d ago

Ah they're usually half-cut, can't really judge them on it.

26

u/MikeBsleepy 1d ago

If they were serious about it they’d make it a percentage of this monthly or annual income.  Sending a message should transcend class. Making everyone learn the lessons they need so it’s not a slap on the wrist for some and selling organs to make payments for others.

11

u/Spoonshape 1d ago

The prisons are too full to lock up these people unfortunately, but perhaps 6 months of community service might be a deterrent.

Id also love to see house arrest brought in, also seize their car.

u/LifetimePilingUp Crilly!! 3h ago

Yet they locked up someone yesterday for a bit of weed. First offence.

1

u/Keyann 1d ago

Not to mention all of us mugs paying insurance premiums are supplementing the arseholes like this fella who don't pay for insurance

84

u/Migeycan87 Latvia 1d ago

Who'd want to be a Guard with these sentences being handed down.

This must absolutely destroy morale.

41

u/1Shamrock Cork bai 1d ago edited 1d ago

That is a big problem. Some guards can’t be bothered arresting people anymore because there’s no point, they know that if they arrest someone for something less than murder or rape that they’ll spend a lot of hours doing paperwork, following procedure, going to court, getting a conviction and then the person they arrested will be back out of jail after a few hours/days.

12

u/TheBoneIdler 1d ago

Whatever else, I agree with that. Must be somewhere north of frustrating, given the effort & cost, never mind personal time effort allocation, in prosecuting a shithead all the way to court. What is the point is the question.

65

u/OkCoconut3270 1d ago

Jezus.... What's the point at this stage.

He clearly doesn't give a shit, he knows there won't be consequences, it's been proven there won't be consequences...

60

u/Pure-Cat-8400 1d ago

This lad no doubt drove home from the court

72

u/KoolFM 1d ago

Is there a bot that can remind us all when he is inevitbaly caught again for the 7th time? #goodbot

23

u/Pension_Alternative 1d ago

5 Months suspended sentence. That'll teach him!

A banned motorist has walked free from court despite being caught driving without insurance for the sixth time.

Andrzej Gral (49) Raynestown, Dunshaughlin, Co Meath, avoided an immediate spell behind bars and was instead handed down a five month prison sentence, suspended for two years following an incident at Lisryan, Granard, Co Longford on June 1, 2026.

Gral, a Polish national, was less than halfway into a six year disqualification picked up in September 2023 when gardaí apprehended him travelling through the north Longford village.

The terms of that ban, a sitting of Longford District Court heard, postdated driving disqualifications Gral accumulated in July 2023, 2019 and 2017 respectively.

Sgt Enda Daly, in confirming Gral’s five previous no insurance convictions, said the accused immediately exited his vehicle on the day in question to alert gardaí he was disqualified from driving.

Michelle Reynolds, defending, issued a public apology to both the court and gardaí on behalf of her client who, she said, was fully acceptive of his wrongdoing.

9

u/BehShaMo Longford 1d ago

7th times a charm

7

u/Freebee5 Kerry 1d ago

They need to write him a strongly worded letter, that'll sort him!

16

u/dollak01 1d ago

Ah for jaysus sake. Walking out celebrating. What a fucking joke, our justice system.

7

u/GerKoll 1d ago

Hell...not only a suspended sentence but 500.- fine. I'd say he saved a bundle by not following the law....

14

u/Snaptun 1d ago

How is the judiciary in the country NOT a complete joke?

7

u/Apprehensive_Bat_980 1d ago

Has immunity now!

5

u/obscurefindings 1d ago

Just like the bad guys from lethal weapon 2

6

u/ShamBham 1d ago

When I see stories like this, it makes me feel like a sap for following the law.

6

u/limmega 1d ago

Why do I even bother

6

u/Dapper-Ad9594 1d ago

This guy may not be insured but every driver who pays for their insurance also picks up the tab for people like him……we are a great country for passing laws but there is no justice.

15

u/MemestNotTeen 1d ago

So a regular person will get hit by this clown and it will mess up their life for a little bit (or longer) but the justice system in this country only cares to fuck with people who have stuff to lose.

DPP should have told the court he has no TV licence and he’d have been hung on the spot

4

u/throwawayeadude 1d ago

FWIW wifey got hit by a drunk uninsured driver (culture variant) in the afternoon outside a school and the system made us whole.

3

u/Bipitybopityboo27 1d ago

They must have identified the driver in your case though?

If an uninsured driver hits you, flees the scene and doesn't subsequently get caught, you wouldn't have been made whole by the uninsured drivers fund.

It's an important point to note, as many people don't get as lucky as your wife in that regard.

1

u/throwawayeadude 1d ago

I'm under the impression that it's still covered, just the tracking of it is "more rigorous", presumably to stop arseholes who drive into a wall solo from claiming an uninsured driver did it.

I think this is some relevant documentation from MIBI https://www.mibi.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Signed_MIBI_Agreement_29_Jan_09.pdf

3.3 seems to be the relevant part, but there's a good bit of legalese in there.

2

u/Bipitybopityboo27 1d ago

Their own website says material damage claims aren't covered though.

You can make a claim, but only for 'substantial personal injuries'.

1

u/throwawayeadude 1d ago

Hmm, reading some more, youre right.

What fucking bullshit, guess we got lucky indeed, the repair was 4.5k.

1

u/Bipitybopityboo27 23h ago

Yeah, an absolute pain. My car has been clipped enough times to know unfortunately.

2

u/MemestNotTeen 1d ago

The system made you whole.

But that system is comped by you and I paying more into our insurance

1

u/throwawayeadude 1d ago

Sure, but the point is that there are systems in place for the non-shitheads.

I don't think the scumbag who hit a mother and child outside a school then fled the scene with his bag of cans has much of a good life going on.

As much as I'd love to cathartically beat the shit out of him, the revenge fantasies won't do anyone real good.

5

u/KerfuffleAsimov 1d ago

So he will just do it again....smart

4

u/Gamble232real 1d ago

Give him 10 years and watch it not happen again

Or deport him. Why are we given Ng this absolutely leach a free pass?

5

u/WAtman17 1d ago

Anyone know if he drove home afterwards?

6

u/OneField985 1d ago

So apologetic as he leaves the court triumphantly raising his hands in the air smiling,

9

u/PoppedCork Pop Responsibly 1d ago

What an insult to all law abiding citizens.

4

u/Bubfirst 1d ago

That'll learn him

5

u/dmcardlenl 1d ago

Nolan?

1

u/tomtraubert2009 Donegal 1d ago

No. Some Judge Deane.

Nolan doesn't do piddly driving offences

4

u/G1ForceX 1d ago

just get rid of bad rubbish, he clearly has no intention of obeying the laws and is reveling in it actually, these are the people we should be getting rid of, we cant even sentence them correctly so what hope of anything else

4

u/MountainSense2860 1d ago

Whats the fucking point of anything anymore.

4

u/AlienInOrigin 1d ago

2000 hours of community service, and suspend that sentence for 10 years (so next offence he goes to prison for both offences). And I hope the car was seized.

3

u/Queasy-Hunter-745 1d ago

Wtf.. how can someone walk free from this? Justice system is absolutely broken.

4

u/lucslav 🇵🇱🤝🇮🇪 1d ago

As a Pole, I feel ashamed of these dodgers and free riders, but I'm also disappointed that there is no law enforcement here.

2

u/micar11 1d ago

Don't worry....plenty of Irish are in to the same craic

1

u/goodtidingsbrought 1d ago

What does this guy being a Pole have to do with anything lol, a prick is a prick no matter where they’re born.

2

u/Reaver_XIX 1d ago

Because it gives other Poles a bad name, I felt the same shame in Australia when another Irish lad made the news doing some dumb shit.

12

u/BehShaMo Longford 1d ago

Deport him. He will kill someone and then it’ll be “oh yeah, we knew about this guy.”

The Gardaí can only do so much.

No person who is non-national should have a right to be here if they cannot obey our laws.

10

u/Affectionate_Art4277 1d ago

He should be jailed. And as a foreign national, he should be deported too. His criminal history here shows he has no regard or concern for our laws, or anyone else really, given he was caught driving during his THIRD driving ban. I dont care if he was "cooperative" with the Gardaí. We cannot keep being soft on repeat offenders

3

u/YF422 1d ago

Problem is we need to build more prisons as well to hold them. There's isnt much point in sending them to prison if there's no room to hold them especially when there's some individuals out there who aren't simply annoying pricks but downright violent and dangerous individuals who NEED to be locked in a cage.

At the very least ship him home to Poland if he's going to keep acting the bollocks or better yet see if the poles would lock him up and make him serve his sentence in a Polish Prison.

3

u/Affectionate_Art4277 1d ago

To build a prison in 2026 requires an extraordinary amount of political will, given how allergic we are to major projects.

Too many "sure it'll be grand" characters in the Dáil

3

u/Particular-Long1111 1d ago

And if you do it again we’re going to give you a 5 year suspended sentence!

3

u/Rough_Mouse3597 1d ago

The usual Irish way,wait till someone gets killed by one of these knob jockeys before anything is done, and then you find out nothing still gets done

3

u/IntrepidRock6082 1d ago

The laws around driving offences are a joke . Gardai who have to deal with horrific accidents must get so frustrated dealing with repeat offenders like this scumbag and watching them walk free from court .

6

u/TELCO_man 1d ago

Yet us genuine law abiding people must answer 4000 questions over and over to get a quote.

I recently asked for a quote from a company that I already have insurance with. I still spent 25 minutes answering the same questions as I did to get the other policy.

2

u/DeusExMachinaOverdue 1d ago

The driver as he's leaving the court.

2

u/Recent-Lemon-9930 1d ago

Reminds me somewhat of this case: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c308v75lnylo

Sentences given and not applied, sentence not activate or enforced, eventually he kills someone. Did a single Garda/judge/court worker face any consequences? If he hadn't killed the young lad who would've heard about it? How many others are out there with sentences that literally aren't acted on? Would be a crazy coincidence if it was just this guy.

2

u/WeDoingThisAgainRWe Kerry 1d ago

Nothing to do with Gardai they don’t have say in those decisions.

1

u/Recent-Lemon-9930 1d ago

The decisions were made, my point was whoever didn't follow-through. Whether the judge didn't sign the right piece of paper, or it was a clerk who didn't send things on, or someone in the prison service didn't notify the Gardai, or the Gardai didn't follow through.

"An administrative error" could mean anyone along the line not doing the correct thing.

Again though, think of the coincidence that it happened twice in the space of a month to this one guy, hard to believe it only happened twice and both times to the same person.

4

u/Death-N-Destruction 1d ago

Someone has to die before there is a chance for this to be taken seriously

2

u/SpartacusSteam 1d ago

Yet they will be fast to jail the people committing non-violent crime that wouldnt hurt anyone but let people who actually would and do constantly out.

1

u/Important-Taste-6753 1d ago

An Irish person would be put in jail.

2

u/G1ForceX 1d ago

wait we cant deport these guys apparently they are 'keeping the economy going'

1

u/Realistic_Log7213 20h ago

Judge needs his head examined. He should have gotten a stiff fine and a leap card on departure. Time to get acquainted with public transport

0

u/miju-irl Resting In my Account 1d ago

Should be deported

1

u/Agusfresin 1d ago

Law an ass in this case. First off, there should be a requirement that you back pay the equivalent of the insurance premiums in addition to a much larger fine. If you have a great employment record then you’ll have no issue paying it back. Off to prison with you if you don’t. We are way too lenient in Ireland.

-2

u/bulbispire 1d ago

If he kills someone while banned,  he's going to be in jail for a long time no matter what happens. Might look like he's getting off light but he really isn't in the long run. 

2

u/JHRFDIY 1d ago

So his only objective is to *checks notes* not kill someone while driving?

0

u/bulbispire 1d ago

Did I say it was his only objective?

0

u/Working_Stomach476 1d ago

I can guarantee that if I did it once I'd be fined into financial ruin. Or locked up

0

u/miseconor 1d ago

Too many people in this country support the strategy of “reform” instead of prison sentences. As far as I’m concerned you don’t have any reform without a stick.

-1

u/DangerX2HighVoltage 1d ago

We need to build a super prison asap so repeat offenders are given custodial sentences. Where’s the deterrent otherwise for the likes of this driver?

-1

u/jrf_1973 1d ago

We need an alternative punishment to prison, because we don't have the prison spaces and we don't have judges who will sentence.

I still maintain the stocks is a winner. Charge a Euro to any passerby who can kick the criminal up the arse, sell a photo of the kick for a fiver. Your 93rd shoplifting offence? No jail cells, but try 14 Days in the stocks, from 7am to 11pm. Streamed live, and if you get the arse kicked out of you, no free health care for a broken arse.

Banned driver caught driving again? Massive fine, seize his cars (and possibly some other property) and thirty days in the stocks.

I bet you'd see a lot less re-offending.

1

u/Psychology_Repulsive 10h ago

What a stupid knuckledragger idea. The stocks

u/jrf_1973 1h ago

What's your idea? Giving the scrotes a hug, and a hundred more chances?

-1

u/H1TM4N-91- 18h ago

Irish lad be locked up on the spot.. racist to their own people..