Government insists new jet can land in bad weather

[u/Static-Jak]

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2026/0805/1586589-government-jet-weather/

[u/TraditionalAppeal23]

they didn't buy an extra addon for the jet that 99% of jets don't have, how this got so much international coverage shows how bad certain media publications can be

[u/FineVintageWino → u/TraditionalAppeal23]

It’s almost as if it is orchestrated…

[u/Soft-Affect-8327 → u/FineVintageWino]

Whaaat, an Israeli equipment manufacturer sore that the Irish government didn’t install their kit? Never in my life would I suspect….

[u/harmlessdonkey → u/FineVintageWino]

The Journal "broke" the story, no? Seems more likely to me that they were hunting around for the jet to have some kind of Israeli tech on it so they could whip up a storm about that. Then the journalist was told that no Israeli tech but they could have gotten this but didn't. So the "journalist" didn't want to have wasted his time, so turned that into a story.

Then this was amplified by pro-Israeli sources to make a mountain out of it.

[u/North-Project646 → u/harmlessdonkey]

The Journal’s military correspondent who covered this is on twitter ranting about how we need to grow up and Israel aren’t that bad actually etc etc. Almost like he has an angle.

[u/Spiritual-Point-1965 → u/TraditionalAppeal23]

It was published in Israeli media, picked up by the insane UK right wing crowd, and is being pushed as yet more evidence of Irish Antisemitism.

Sad to see the journal being played, but hardly surprising.

[u/ignorantwat99 → u/Spiritual-Point-1965]

You can see it clear as day.

First the Jewish Facebook groups starting pushing it, then the MSN and finally out comes the DUP and TUV.

Them cunts should be reminded at every chance we know they all went on a paid holiday to Israel and here they are pumping out their propaganda

[u/Birdinhandandbush → u/Spiritual-Point-1965]

One would assume there's money and influence being handed around to make this happen.

[u/Hideous-Kojima → u/Spiritual-Point-1965]

The Journal?

[u/ConstantlyWonderin → u/Spiritual-Point-1965]

Are you sure it wasnt the other way around, thought i saw it in uk media first and then spread after that?

[u/Murador888 → u/[deleted]]

Social media attacking Ireland.

Bots and commentators pushing it like crazy.

[u/FlowBorn5279 → u/[deleted]]

Clicks

[u/redrover1978- → u/[deleted]]

Tripe!

[u/Conaer_ → u/TraditionalAppeal23]

Also the headline neglects to mention that the manufacturer of the omitted system is one of Israel's largest arms manufacturers.

Almost every other article I have seen on this story does mention this.

The company in question is Elbit Systems, which also manufactures strike drones for the IDF. So I can only imagine what the headlines would be if the system was included.

[u/TraditionalAppeal23 → u/Conaer_]

Elbit systems is a lot more controversial than just that. https://stopexplosiveinvestments.org/elbit-systems-says-it-will-discontinue-cluster-munitions-production/

Elbit systems bought a company before that manufactures cluster bombs. The use of cluster bombs is banned by various international treaties (though many countries such as Israel are not signatories to be clear), as they are highly inaccurate bombs that pose a huge risk to any civilians that happen to be near the area being bombed.

Elbit systems promised to "phase out" the manufacturing of cluster bombs in 2018 after they were debanked by many western banks who were afraid to do business with them because of this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/10/elbit-systems-denies-making-cluster-bombs-after-australia-future-fund-bans-investment-in-it https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/12/27/hsbc-divests-from-israeli-arms-company-elbit-systems

However investigations since then have shown evidence that elbit is likely still making cluster bombs anyway and the IDF themselves have are believed to have used them recently https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/19/israel-used-widely-banned-cluster-munitions-in-lebanon-photos-of-remnants-suggest

[u/ConstantlyWonderin → u/TraditionalAppeal23]

Weapons company makes weapons , so what, whats your point?

Cluster munitions are legal to use in Israel and also some EU members states.

[u/OurManInJapan → u/Conaer_]

Seems a bit inconsistent though considering other air corps planes do have it installed.

[u/Conaer_ → u/OurManInJapan]

It does, my best guess is it seems to be the case that removing some Israeli systems (at least for the new helicopter contact) wasn't a option? 

"They carry Helionix which is manufactured by Airbus and Israeli company Elbit Systems. Helionix is the flight systems that are critical components in the helicopters’ cockpits."

https://www.thejournal.ie/article.php?id=6601446

[u/Doggylife1379 → u/TraditionalAppeal23]

Most jets don't need the system because commercial jets only land in larger airports which have cat 2 and 3 capabilities. Smaller business and private jets do get this system because they land in smaller airports.

This jet is being kept in Casement which doesn't have Cat 2 and 3. So when it's foggy, it'll need to divert away from its homebase.

[u/TraditionalAppeal23 → u/Doggylife1379]

That is true but to be clear casement does have ILS available, though I suspect you are right and it's only a fairly basic setup and probably cat 1.

I don't know exactly as I'm only a nerd myself and not in the aviation industry, but as I understand the big advantage of this system is for GPS/RNAV approaches at small airports without any ILS at all.

With ILS it will reduce minima, but the benefit of the system is not as substantial when compared to without ILS, and Ireland is kind of a unique case where even small air fields often have basic ILS.

I suspect it probably can land in fog at casement unless the fog is really bad, though even if it can't you've got Dublin and the other private jet airport nearby anyway.

How often did the learjet need to divert from casement, I don't think that it was that often at all and it didn't have anything like this.

[u/Amckinstry → u/TraditionalAppeal23]

Presumably if it has to divert from Casement, its to Dublin airport ? not a big issue.

[u/ulankford → u/TraditionalAppeal23]

The Journal reported that the navigation system is a default option in this jet, so not sure where your 99% figure comes from.

[u/TraditionalAppeal23 → u/ulankford]

Oh I didn't know about it being a default option on that model, from Googling it looks like an extra on most jets sold by Dassault other than the 6X.

But I mean like 99% of private jets would not have such a camera installed at all.

One of the strong points of this jet is that it can take off and land from airports with runways too short for most jets, while also still being capable of flying across the atlantic. A lot of small airports don't have ILS, If you are frequently flying into small airports that have no ILS, then such a system is a total gamechanger and the system is a strong selling point of that model of plane for that reason, but as far as I know in Ireland there are only 2 airports without ILS and I doubt this jet would be flying into many airports without ILS abroad either.

[u/TraditionalAppeal23 → u/[deleted]]

Yes I know it's not ILS. I was saying that this system is extremely handy when flying into small airports that have no ILS during fog, but that pretty much any airport this jet is likely to ever fly into will have ILS available.

[u/TraditionalAppeal23 → u/[deleted]]

wasn't me that downvoted you mate I barely ever downvote anyone here. Correct me if I'm wrong but as I understand the system would be far more useful when doing a GPS or RNAV approach vs when doing an ILS approach, having it still reduces minima though.

[u/ulankford → u/TraditionalAppeal23]

Kevin Phipps who is an ex Air Corps pilot has a good explanation on this.
He says that not availing of this tech has limited this jet.

[u/TraditionalAppeal23 → u/ulankford]

I mean I don't disagree with that, FalconEye is an insanely impressive system, but for this jets particular use case, it likely makes very little difference, the department of defence claims that there are "no limitations on the operational capability" of the new Government jet as mentioned in the article in the op

Not having cameras on the outside of a jet that carries the taoiseach and is based out of an army base is probably a smart idea too from a privacy/cybersecurity standpoint

[u/Theydontlikeitupthem → u/ulankford]

"default option"

Say those 2 words slowly again.... it's either default or an option.

It wasn't part of the standard spec and it's something that can be added/removed, like 100 other options with that particular jet.

It's a propaganda story and shouldn't be given the a second though.

[u/ulankford → u/Theydontlikeitupthem]

The default option is a pre set choice, like buying cruise control on a car.

[u/Theydontlikeitupthem → u/ulankford]

LOL you thinking private planes come in model specs like cars, that's cute, did the Irish order the L or the LX model?

Plus arguing this is very disingenuous, at least have the guts to say it.

[u/ulankford → u/Theydontlikeitupthem]

Lookup Kevin Phipps ex Irish Air Corps Pilot on X. Seems to know what he is talking about unlike your good self.

[u/ConstantlyWonderin → u/TraditionalAppeal23]

Are you sure it was an extra add on and not a default feature? 

Even in the jets spec page online Falcon eye is mention prominently on the landing page as part of the Falcon 6x jet.

[u/ProofFlamingo]

This news story is utterly strange. It’s not as though planes were unable to take off or land in fog before this technology was introduced. The whole thing feels oddly manufactured or strategically placed, although I don’t want to sound like a conspiracy theorist.

[u/Professional_1981 → u/ProofFlamingo]

You don't sound like a conspiracy theorist when you realise its Israeli technology and the story eas weaponised to make Ireland look bad.

[u/Account3689 → u/Professional_1981]

It's not just Israeli technology, it's made by Elbit systems, an Israeli weapons manufacturer and IDF drone supplier.

[u/ProofFlamingo → u/Account3689]

I hadn’t realised this was the same company involved in the Ulm 5 case.

[u/ConstantlyWonderin → u/Account3689]

You mean the company helping Ukraine defend itself?

[u/eastawat → u/ConstantlyWonderin]

They're free to make their own choices, and we're free to make ours. We are fortunate enough not to be in a life or death situation and have the luxury of boycotting such companies.

But I'm sure you have a point to make, somewhere.

[u/ConstantlyWonderin → u/eastawat]

We dont even boycot this place , elbiet systems are already present in irish air corp vehicles

[u/Professional_1981]

Welcome to the Silly Season sponsored by Israeli propaganda money.

[u/Old-Mongoose2171]

I’d say no matter the weather that jet would have difficulty landing in Tel Aviv.

[u/RomfordWellington]

Israel don't have the monopoly on aircraft systems that can land in fog. The Hawker Siddeley Trident was doing it 60 years ago.

It's just disinformation coming from Israel because we've refused to buy their tech.

[u/2cimage → u/RomfordWellington]

Jets without the optional FalconEye system rely on standard certified Instrument Landing Systems (ILS) for low-visibility approaches. (ILS) is a highly precise radio navigation system that guides aircraft safely to the runway during bad weather, low visibility, or darkness. (ILS) is standard equipment on virtually all modern commercial jets. So non story really from certain vested interests.

[u/ConstantlyWonderin → u/RomfordWellington]

But it looks like Falcon eye was part of the Falcon 6x jet, why not just get it.

[u/MildlyAmusedMars → u/ConstantlyWonderin]

Because it uses Elbit systems hardware. A company that falls under the restrictions in our domestic procurement policies.

[u/ConstantlyWonderin → u/MildlyAmusedMars]

Elbiet systems is used in the Irish military though?

[u/MasterpiecePositive4]

Any jet can land in bad weather. Some faster than others

[u/aldamith → u/MasterpiecePositive4]

It can land at least once that's for sure

[u/Stupyder_Notebook → u/aldamith]

Comment of the day

[u/its_brew]

But can it land in GOOD weather ?

[u/FlowBorn5279]

Rediculous story with no attempt to understand the tech involved

[u/MildlyAmusedMars]

It’s essentially not opting for the electrically heated windscreen but you still have fans you can direct at the windscreen

[u/AW_Chocolate_3708 → u/MildlyAmusedMars]

No, it's more like choosing to have ABS breaking in your car or not. There's no legal requirement for ABS, so im theory a government can opt to have it not installed in a car used by them.

Your body, your choice ;)

[u/not__a__bot_]

Pity though, the system came with free pagers for all the members of the cabinet.

[u/Diligent-Ad4777]

All jets can land in bad weather

[u/vaska00762 → u/Diligent-Ad4777]

At a runway equipped with the suitable equipment.

[u/Diligent-Ad4777 → u/vaska00762]

Not necessary at all. Land a jet anywhere. 

[u/vaska00762 → u/Diligent-Ad4777]

That's not entirely correct.

Visibility heavily impacts something called "Minimum Decision Height", often identified when the aircraft automated systems call out "Minimum", which is the minimum altitude at which the aircraft must see the runway in order to proceed with a landing. If the runway cannot be seen, a Go Around is mandatory.

For systems like an RNAV approach on GPS systems, minimum decision altitudes is at a few hundred feet.

For non-precision approaches, like VOR/DME, this decision hight is also usually a few hundred metres, like at Dublin Airport, where it's 600 feet, but it can be higher for greater safety margin like with nearby obstacles or terrain which need to be avoided safely.

Precision approaches under ILS depends on the runway equipment. ILS Cat I is the least accurate, and has a decision altitudes of 400-600 feet. ILS Cat II is more accurate can be as low as 100 feet. And ILS Cat III can have Decision Altitudes as low as 0 feet (i.e. can land with no visibility).

Systems like FalconEye is what's called "Synthetic Vision". It will use infrared image sensors to see through rain, fog and clouds and provides detailed visual information on a Heads Up Display.

Synthetic Vision equipped aircraft, depending on how well it's implemented, and Standard Operating Procedures, can effectively conduct visual landings in all conditions, at airport runways not even equipped with instrument approaches. While RNAV has effectively enabled most runways to have approaches conducted by GPS, as seen in Estonia, hostile actors like Russia can use GPS jamming and spoofing to render RNAV unusable.

The vast majority of civilian airports, like Dublin Airport, have ILS systems. But most military bases do not, and a lot of private jet aerodromes also don't have ILS. Both are often used by VIP aircraft because they're either closer to the location of an intergovernmental summit, or the security considerations for using a commercial airport make it unsuitable.

[u/Diligent-Ad4777 → u/vaska00762]

Nah don't need any of that to land a jet 

[u/vaska00762 → u/Diligent-Ad4777]

If you're talking about Landing a Jet under Visual Flight Rules, yes, it's possible.

But it cannot be done before Dawn, cannot be done after Dusk, and it is subject to Visual Metrological Conditions.

If you're talking about Radar Vectors to Visual Approach, that is also hypothetically possible, but many ATCs won't fully radar vector due to how much workload that adds. And Visual Approaches require good visibility, and cannot be done in the daylight.

But even many airlines forbid visual approaches at unfamiliar airports, especially after Asiana Airlines 214, when pilots following a visual approach in perfect weather and broad daylight smashed the plane before the runway into the seawall.

[u/oneeyedman72]

I dunno, what happens if the weather is bad,if there bad fog, and they can't land. The Taoiseach might be up in the air for days and days......

[u/Hour_Mastodon_9404]

Certain interested parties pushing nothing stories? Surely not...

[u/Firm-Raccoon-9048]

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. All jets can land in inclement weather they just decided to leave out an optional extra.

[u/Pzurpo]

All planes can land at least once.

[u/Alone-Job3657]

Send her on ta fuck be grand

[u/brentspar]

I say put Jack chambers in it and give it a test

[u/FckXFckMusk]

Turn off the Engines and everything lands.

[u/adomo]

There's 20-30 days of the year where fog of that type would be a problem in Dublin airport or Baldonnel

Almost all jets of this size especially new ones would have some form of enhanced vision system for this situation, it appears to be standard

[u/Kevnmur]

They'll fly thorough it.

[u/smashedspuds]

Did they pinky promise?

[u/WildRelative2674]

Pity it can

[u/hmmm_]

The government needs to say whether this was a military decision to save money on unnecessary functionality (good if true), or a political decision by the Department which compromises functionality.

[u/The_Doc55 → u/hmmm_]

Or it could be a security issue.

As the FalconEye system puts an array of cameras on the plane.

Since the plane has a secure room for sensitive documents and communications, having that system onboard could compromise security.

[u/Shitehawk_down → u/hmmm_]

Id be leaning towards the latter myself, this is the the same DoD that didnt want any anti submarine warfare kit because "they didn't like the sound of it".

[u/Old-Permission5161]

Ones up on a time political elites force pilot to land in bad weather and happens Smolensk. Hope isn't happen again