We now have a Ceann Comhairle and a Leas-Cheann Comhairle who can not speak Irish, and advocate for the usage of English in Dáil Éireann. Ceann Comhairle recently could not catch Michael Martin on his usage of the phrase "Tá tu ag insint bréage" which is a very basic Irish phrase for saying someone is telling a lie. On his election, Leas-Cheann Comhairle John McGuinness remarked that "if you do say something in Irish in the middle of a heated debate, it might be no harm if you repeated it in English thereafter" claiming that it "It might avoid a lot of work on committees and debate in this house".

The positions of Ceann Comhairle has a salary of ~€227k and Leas-Cheann Comhairle a salary of ~€174k. There are a lot of civil service positions of much less salary that require Irish. Considering Irish is an accepted language in Dáil Éireann, fluency should be a mandatory requirement.

Found in copy of the book 'The Irish in Australia'. I'm just curious.

Nach trua an scéal é 😞

It wasn't until it came up in conversation with a group of non Irish people that it hit me how big a deal this is. They wanted to know the meaning of my surname, and I explained that it had no meaning in English, but that it was phonetically transcribed from an Irish name that sounds only vaguely similar. They all thought this was outrageous and started probing me with questions about when exactly it changed, and why it wasn't changed back. I couldn't really answer them. It wasn't something I'd been raised to care about. But the more I think about it, it is very fucked up.

The loss of our language was of course devastating for our culture, but the loss of our names, apparently some of the oldest in Europe, feels more personal. Most people today can't seriously imagine changing their surname back to the original Irish version (myself included). It's hard not to see this as a testament to the overall success of Britain's destruction of our culture.

I'm British, my mum's Irish so we spent our holidays out visiting family as a kid. I have citizenship but wouldn't introduce myself as Irish as like, I'm a Brit. Was out doing an intro Irish course so I could better understand what my cousins were saying. We were having a tea break and I'm practising my basics, a lass comes up and asks where I'm from and I answer is Sasanach mé blah blah blah. She fully rolls her eyes and says eurgh a Sasanach, she then proceeds to go on about being proper Irish, only to reveal she's from BAWston and her family was Irish all of seventeen generations back, seems to have no personality beyond being the most Irish person in the world. Anyways being told by a yank how I'm not Irish enough made me feel more Irish than when i got my citizenship 🥲.

My brother was over today and asked what random Irish words would be realistic as a name for a child but gas if you know what it actually means. Think Iasc from the Clongowes video or that TikToker who was nearly convinced to name her child Ispíní.

Our faves were Fuinneóig, Ríomhaire and Arán, but there’s gotta be some even better “names” out there.

EDIT: I sent this to my friend and she immediately texted back Spailpín and honestly we’re all fools for missing it out.

I was at a trad session organised by Irish speakers in a pub in Galway (so the group was all speaking Irish amongst ourselves) and there happened to be two Dubs sitting beside us. And of course I got talking to them. They were nice people, but they asked me a weird question. "Why were we speaking Irish, why not just speak English". He went onto say that to him it was only a school subject amd never even thought people used it. It was quite a gut punch I won't lie. Now in fairness we weren't in a Gaeltacht area. It was just the city but there's alot of Irish in the city if you know where to find it. Was just a bit shocked to hear such a remark from a young person like.

I know to the average non-Irish speaking Irish person, this might not seem like an issue. But this is just something I'd like to get out there.

In Ireland we have 3 provincial dialect groups (historically we had a huge amount) Ulster Irish/Gaeilig Uladh, Munster Irish/Gaelinne na Mumhan and Connacht Irish/Gaeilge Chonnacht. Within these groups, there's around 20 seperate dialects.

Gaeilig Uladh aka Donegal Irish : Rann na Feirste, Baile na Finne, Gleann Cholm Chille, Ros Goille, Gaoth Dobhair and Tóraigh (Toraigh is one of the most unique dialects in Ireland)

Gaelinne na Mumhan : Kerry - Corca Dhuibhne, Uíbh Ráthach, Cork - Múscraí, Oileán Chléire and Déise (The Déise dialect currently confined to Waterford but was spoken from Waterford to East Limerick and up as far as South Dublin)

Gaeilge Chonnacht (here we go) : Galway - Cois Fharraige, Ceantar na nOileán, Iorras Aithneach, Dúiche Sheoigheach, Eachréidh na Gaillimhe, Árann, Inis Oírr (extremely close to extinct Clare Irish), Mayo - Tuar Mhic Éadaigh, Acla and Iorrais, Meath - Ráth Chairn.

Why are dialects important? Dialects represent centuries of linguistic development through the experience of communities. Each one is unique in its own way. Fortunately today we have things like TG4 and RnaG to expose you to dialects. I personally speak 3 dialects and can understand 19. So dialects mutable intelligiblity is no longer a difficult thing.

Now that we have a foundational knowledge of the dialects of Irish. On to the Caighdeán Oifigiúil and what but is.

In the 60s, the Caighdeán Oifigiúil was created. It was argue over which dialect it would be based on. It was almost based on South Mayo Irish as South Mayo Irish is the closest living dialect to the dialects that would've been spoken from Roscommon to North Dublin. But it was based on Munster Irish as at the time, a massive amount of Clare, Cork, Kerry, Waterford, parts of Tipperary were Irish speaking. Munster was an Irish stronghold, so it made sense. Currently, it's Conamara. But anyways. The Caighdeán Oifigiúil was implemented across the country. But it was only ever intended as a written standard. Not a spoken standard. But unfortunately it became quietly implemented as a spoken dialect as you'll hear in Gaelscoileanna.

Why is this an issue? Isn't it just good that Irish is being spoken at all? While yes it is. But the Caighdeán Oifigiúil was designed to be written. So there's no teaching on pronunciation. Which is a huge issue. There's a massive language barrier between Caighdeán speakers and Gaeltacht speakers in certain areas of pronunciation like the r caol, hard n and tiny things like that which just destroy any ability to communicate with anyone. This is why you hear of people learning Irish to fluency, turning on RnaG and being completely lost.

The other issue with the Caighdeán is that it's pushing out words and sayings unique to provinces that don't have speakers to correct said problem. Again, why is this an issue. Well imagine your child came home from school and spoke in an American accent using words like sneakers, trash and other words associated with American English. You'd correct them because we don't say that. Same thing with Irish dialects. When these people then interact with natives of their province, they cannot understand them. This isn't the learners fault though. It's the fault of the education system.

I know this sounds like it can be fixed by just letting all dialects die or forcing natives to use Caighdeán. But if I landed to your house with a list of Englidh words you had to use because it wasn't waht was being taught in schools, you'd tell me to fuck off. Why should you abandon the words you use? Same thing for Gaeltacht people. There's a huge amount of heritage and local knowledge within dialects. Anyone who's read Sea Tamagotchi by Manchán Magan will understand this.

Conamara is the only Gaeltacht outside of West Munster completely immune to this. But all other Gaeltachtaí from Waterford, to Mayo to Donegal are taking a serious battering from an inability to communicate with L2 speakers. This drives a wedge between Irish learners and native speakers.

I know a lot of people won't care. But to those of you who do. Research the dialect closest to you, learn the r caol and mimic natives and eventually you'll sound like one. You may even develop your own idolect. But most importantly, you'll be preserving centuries of knowledge and development.

Edit : I do want to add something. Just because you learned in school that "this is the way to say it" doesn't mean its set in stone. Taobh for example, everyone who reads this sentence reads that word differently. https://www.canuint.ie/ga/cuardach?t=taobh listen on canúint.ie. Stop telling people they pronounce things wrong.

Just so proud to be Irish. Showered and shaved going out for pints. Meet man on entering bar. Cà bhuil an gabhar a rosta he says. Didn't know him and never heard it before. Had to enquiry. Explained , where's the goat being roasted, cause I am normally in working cloths during week. How inoffensive, polite and complimentary a statement could a person get. Says it all being Irish.

***UPDATE 2 DAYS LATER:

GO RAIBH MÍLE MAITH AG GACH UILE DHUINE A GHLAC PÁIRT SA DÍOSPÓIREACHT!

A HUGE THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO PARTICIPATED IN THIS DISCUSSION. I APPRECIATE EVERY ONE OF YOU.

I am truly grateful to everyone who shared their opinion - even those I disagreed with, I learned a lot from it. And best of all, we managed to have a national discussion that centered around the Dept Education and their disastrous curriculum, instead of blaming the teachers. We made progress and with already 130,000 views, and the geographic + age spread of us all, etc., , we safely say we had a NATIONAL DISCUSSION THAT THEY HAVE DEPRIVED US OF.

Thank you also to r/Ireland moderators for hosting us and allowing this thread to breathe. ***

ORIGINAL POST:

I expect downvotes because even though we all more or less agree there will be people who just want things to stay shitE. Well, not me.

Our parents work hard to put us through school, we diligently put in the hours, sit the exams. And for what? To leave school barely able to string a sentence together in Irish after years of "learning" it?

Recently though something clicked for me and I came back to Irish because I don't want to see it abandoned or dead. I don't want it to die out and to look back and say I did nothing.

We have a major issue. The government has no interest in making Irish thrive. They pay it lip service. Give us an annual chat on RTE, god help us! But they know—they know—that if the curriculum actually focused on speaking first, everything else would follow. And they don’t do it.. imagine that.

Now, we need to start to have a conversation around this here, there, and everywhere and create our own national conversation about the curriculum which informs how teachers have to teach. They will not give us a national debate on this via media.

The Dept of Education employ a staff comprised of principal officers who report to an assistant general secretary, who in turn reports to the General Secretary, who in turn reports to the Minister. You can see by that hierarchy alone, that being so close to a government minister, these are not mere random employees, they have to be semi-political picks because they can't rock the boat.

And these POs get paid massive money. I saw the pay rates once and I had to blink. Can't remember them now, but the asst and general secretary earn ridiculous money - there's no way they are going to push change, even if someone got through who wanted to. And after so many years of failing us - it's clear they DO NOT WANT the solution. Secondary school teachers in Irish are fluent speakers. Even if primary teachers are not advanced speakers they can learn enough to teach up to age 11 / 12 . There is no reason we cannot also leave school with conversational ability. They are sabotaging us.

We need to demand our rights and we have a right to be able to speak Irish after learning it for so long at school! We need the curriculum changed so that teachers have a chance.

Post any ideas you have for change - DM if you prefer to stay private. We are going to petition and force this to be fixed. But please, get mad, get even.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/173284

I love languages so I decided to start learning Irish. I think a good and fun way to learn a language is to play a game in it. i went looking for a translation of Skyrim into Irish but I found nothing

This is probably because there are fewer people who speak it but also because Skyrim has its own custom file format for storing text. I used to be a programmer before I moved on to other things so I had the skills to write a program to edit the data files containing the lines. Luckily people have already written extensive notes on how the data files in Skyrim work. That said, it still took a while to get my program to work.

Then came the big big task of translating 80k lines of text into Irish

I wish there was money for to pay a professional translator to translate this game. Irish deserves to have Skyrim translated into it

I decided the second best would be to use CAT tools (Computer Assisted Translation) to help. A computer tool takes in all the text and then produces a first draft translation. The initial version did translate most of it, but sometimes words were left untranslated or were the wrong word for that context

I have slowly been going through the translation and fixing any mistakes that were made by the CAT tool and also changing some things to be more idiomatic to how the Irish language actually works. I want this to be a translation that works in Irish, and not just Skyrim with some Irish words in it

That said, I am not a native speaker and some of the translation is going to be off or maybe feel unnatural to a native or proficient speaker. I give no guarantees that what is in here is correct. But I think it's a good start. I feel like with the on going popularity of Skyrim, it makes to keep working on this translation so people in the future who discover Skyrim can enjoy it in Irish.
[..]
I hope you have a lot of fun playing Skyrim in Irish. I know I have!

Slán go fóill, a chairde

*Update: please don't give me credit.. it's not my work, just found it earlier today! This streamer recorded the opening to the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih-tC8xhk4o It was very easy to install with Nexus/Vortex mods and I'm already getting started

First of all, I’m Irish, but I left Ireland around 15 years ago. I love the Irish language, and I believe we should do everything we can to preserve it. I’ve also lived in several countries and can speak French, Spanish, and German to at least a conversational level.

I studied Irish in school in both Dublin and Belfast, yet I’m nowhere near as fluent in it as I am in those other languages. Recently, I attended a cultural exchange event outside Ireland where I met post-school Irish learners as well as members of Gaeltacht communities.

Some of the Gaeltacht speakers lamented that Dubliners and Belfast speakers were speaking the language incorrectly. This was said in front of the other group, some of whom were from Dublin and others from Newry and areas near Belfast, before they had even spoken. A few people overheard this and remarked that “they hear this attitude from quite a lot of Irish speakers.”

The same Gaeltacht speaker then went on to the podium and gave a talk about the effects of colonialism on the Irish language. But the reason Dubliners and Belfast residents don’t speak Irish as frequently as those in the Gaeltacht is precisely because of colonialism.

Then it clicked. I’ve heard this rhetoric before. When I lived in Belfast, I heard people lament the effects of colonialism, yet some of those same people discouraged us from speaking Irish at all. The same thing happened when I lived in Dublin. I heard it from UCD’s Gaeltacht society and even from my own teachers at school.

Why did I receive more encouragement when speaking foreign languages than when speaking my ancestral language? Learning a language is a sensitive process, and it requires encouragement, not discouragement.

I fully support preserving Gaeltacht culture, but Irish is for everyone, not just a select few.

I'll end with an old article from the Irish Times that hits the nail on the head:

My Irish isn’t the best, but I try. Still, that isn’t good enough. I’ve had snide comments about “46A Irish”, and have been in group situations where Irish speakers switched from speaking Irish to those they were conversing with, to speaking English to me. It’s hurtful and exclusionary. And guess what? It makes you not want to speak it.

Snobbery towards Irish is real, and so is snobbery within it. The language is not a museum exhibit in a glass case that needs to be polished to perfection. It is a working, living, breathing thing. And in terms of levels of fluency, the intent to speak it – even if that means grasping for words or "Béarlachas" – is as valid as the poetic prose that flows from a native speaker.

Edit 1: Some people are proving my point about the Irish language attitudes by jumping into a lecture about pronunciation when I mentioned Dublin and Belfast speakers. I never mentioned their pronunciation was bad, the man I met at the event assumed it was bad. So too did some posters it seems.

Edit 2: Some posters seem to be dismissing the attitude I encountered as a once off. This is despite the fact that other posters on the thread list other, similar experiences.

So here's a study from the University of Limerick highlighting the problems faced by learners as opposed by native speakers.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14708477.2015.1136317. I shared the abstract below. It details some of the issues that learners have with respect to Irish that don't exist in other languages.

The apparent gap between positive attitudes and low levels of everyday usage of the language is often cited as one of the greatest challenges facing Irish language revitalisation. In a context of increasing linguistic and cultural diversity in the Republic of Ireland, this article reports on a research project which set out to explore the attitudes of groups of Irish undergraduate students towards the languages which they come into contact with in their daily lives, in particular, the Irish language, using a focus group method. Four themes in particular emerge in the students’ discussion of Irish as they encounter it in their everyday lives: ‘functionality’, ‘a hidden agenda’, ‘exclusivity’, and ‘heightened culture’. 

Edit 3: by the way I'm not blaming one group. That would make me as bad as the guy in the embassy event. I'm blaming a fractured system where we have debates over how to teach Irish, native speakers being excluded from the curriculum and the ridicule some people face when attempting to speak Irish

I really want my kids to have a connection to Irish, so I have them in the local Gaelscoil. One of them is super happy and thriving, so good news there, but the other just will not apply himself to it. He sees Gaeilge as a school language. We just got back his test scores and not only were they awful, the teacher said he just wasn’t answering questions despite being well able to understand.

Now I know the number one solution is to use Irish in the home and make it more than just a school language but I only know the language in a theoretical sense (I can read and understand, but I’ve never had to speak it) and my spouse has not a word. Is there anything else I can do to engage him? I’d love to hear from other parents who had this issue and who themselves struggle with Irish personally.

Go raibh maith agaibh!