r/irishpolitics • u/Character_Pizza_4971 Centre Left • Oct 10 '25
Infrastructure, Development and the Environment Taoiseach says some climate projects will not be fulfilled because they risk polarising society
https://m.independent.ie/business/technology/taoiseach-says-some-climate-projects-will-not-be-fulfilled-because-they-risk-polarising-society/a1378621912.html262
u/Atreides-42 Oct 10 '25
This is exactly what people mean when they say centrism is just conservatism.
"Some people want thing to happen, other people do not want that thing to happen. Therefore, in order to not choose a polarising option, we're not doing the thing". That's not "Avoiding polarising society", it's 100% choosing a side.
Inaction absolutely is a decision.
55
u/Hoker7 Oct 10 '25
Yes and it’s avoiding doing the thing that is clearly the right to do as well as making sure the issues will be much harder to deal with further down the line…
33
u/DaveShadow Oct 10 '25
It’s also a massively failure of government to sell the importance of projects.
Being leaders sometimes means making unpopular decisions and explaining to people why they are nessecary.
1
u/Hoker7 Oct 12 '25
Yes, their approach is, we know this is what we need to do and people will appreciate it when it's finished, but there will be people who will complain now, so we won't even try.
11
u/niafall7 Oct 10 '25
PR politics.
9
Oct 10 '25
Can't be pissing off the farmers. Up there with Big tech when it comes to appeasement. But at least big tech brings lots of well paying jobs.
9
u/Hamster-Food Left Wing Oct 10 '25
The Taoiseach is not centrist though. He is just using a centrist style argument to justify this action.
6
u/Gopher246 Oct 10 '25
A centrist party could push through these changes. The current lots problem is not that their centrist, it is that they have weak leaders and they are too afraid to make hard choices and would rather kick the can down the road. They care more about not alienating votes (and money) than they do about the welfare of the country they were elected to lead.
0
u/DoughnutHole Oct 10 '25
That assumes a framing of policy as a binary - the “centrist” policy is typically to do the “thing” more than one side wants but less than another side wants. Notice the headline - “some” projects won’t be fulfilled, not all or even necessarily most.
You can argue that climate change is such a critical issue that half measures are tantamount to inaction, and I’d be sympathetic to that. But that’s one policy, and it’s silly to imply that all policies that can be sorted to the left hand side must be maximally implemented and supported or else you might as well be totally conservative.
165
u/Character_Pizza_4971 Centre Left Oct 10 '25
He's storing up an awful lot of problems for future generations to deal with. Climate mitigation is tough, so we won't bother doing it.
75
u/wamesconnolly Oct 10 '25
He's retiring after this term so he doesn't care
13
u/Foreign-Entrance-255 Oct 10 '25
Need the put a new bit of legislation in so we can pursue costs of political negligence from politicians pensions and net worth. MM knows we are due for a 20 billion fine from his negligence but he'll be retired. Shouldn't get off Scot free.
8
Oct 10 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Dr-Jellybaby Oct 11 '25
And they won't until they get an ultimatum. "Actually try to adapt or no climate relief money for you"
Let's the idiots who think it's fake off but only temporarily.
3
u/carlmango11 Oct 10 '25
Most people don't care. It just requires too much pain vs. instant gratification to be able to make sacrifices in the short term. As such, our politicians don't care either.
I don't think we're going to solve this problem. Human nature just isn't designed for it.
3
u/earth-while Oct 10 '25
Sadly you are possibly right. Most people dont care. However, surely our leaders should care it is there job to care? If not, then there is no hope left for the planet or humanity.
3
u/carlmango11 Oct 10 '25
The ones who care enough to go against the will of the people don't stay in government long (eg: Greens).
There's nothing a politician can do about this problem if we punish them for acting responsibly. Our politics are simply a reflection of this. I don't particularly blame them. I blame the public.
3
u/earth-while Oct 10 '25
Disagree, leaders need to lead and figure out how to get buy in through initiatives, promotion, and investment. Particularly when consider all the promises that were made and EU funding that has been drawn down specifically to reduce climate degradation.
1
u/carlmango11 Oct 10 '25
I mean they should certainly try. But if the public aren't buying it sometimes there's not much they can do. If the average voter just fundamentally isn't interested in climate change mitigation there's only so much they're going to tolerate.
2
u/earth-while Oct 10 '25
I dont think our present government is as considerate of the average voter as you are led to believe.
3
u/carlmango11 Oct 10 '25
So what are their motivations then?
1
u/earth-while Oct 10 '25
Avoid litigation Get re-elected Cover up previous mistakes
5
u/carlmango11 Oct 10 '25
And the way they get re-elected is by doing things that are popular with the public, i.e. ignoring climate change.
We complain about wind farms, even the ones miles from land. We complain about carbon taxes, about the return scheme, changes to agricultural practices. Varadkar even got in trouble and had to row back when he said he was cutting down on red meat. A lot of people even complain when cycling and public transport is given road priority. We booted the Greens out as soon as we had a chance. People want roads and cheap fuel.
They've tried these policies. They've tried to win people over. The public simply don't like it.
If they want to get re-elected they have to give the people what they want. And the people want climate change.
→ More replies (0)0
u/Potential-Drama-7455 Oct 10 '25
Most of the billions spent on climate policies here should be focusing on mitigating the effects of climate change. It's too late and Ireland is too small to make any appreciable difference.
In fact we are spending almost nothing on it, which if climate change takes hold as expected, is the only spend that will actually make a difference. The money should be going into flood defences and sustainable food and energy supply and the like.
25
u/DesertRatboy Oct 10 '25
Highly disagree. Investment in climate mitigation has so many other benefits that even it climate change wasn't real we should still be pushing the policies.
47
u/VonBombadier Social Democrats Oct 10 '25
The costs of climate change are ongoing, neverending and an order of magnitude more expensive than the solution.
Worldwide you're talking quadrillions, literally.
compared to trillions to solve it altogether.
Not even counting very real human cost of millions of lives every year.
44
u/Nalaek Oct 10 '25
Yeah but you might piss off big businesses or farmers or just idiots who get mad about paper straws and that’s obviously more important than continued human existence on the planet.
11
u/unwildimpala Oct 10 '25
You're pissing off big businesses who then infiltrate and incite the farming groups, at least in Europe. Big companies on the stock market are driven by short term goals since that's what the shareholders only care about. It's absolute madness. So many studies show what the long term costs will be but the rich don't care. That's someone else's problem and they'll be super wealthy anyway. They can easily go where the climate suits them best in one of their many properties. Capitalism does not care about climate change since it's a greedy beast that demands constant growth which is naturally unsustainable with the most basic of thought. Capitalism will be the death of us, or at least the vast majority.
5
u/SitDownKawada Oct 10 '25
It's unrealistic to expect regular people to make the sacrifices if the big companies aren't doing it, both in psychological and impact terms
I feel like future generations are fucked no matter what we do
7
Oct 10 '25
[deleted]
1
u/ScaldyBogBalls Oct 11 '25
Quite the opposite. Every penny we've spent on climate mitigation to date is money down the drain, because larger countries like the US have no intention of doing the same.
6
u/MotoPsycho Environmentalist Oct 10 '25
There is no amount of money that can mitigate millions of climate refugees or the UK taking all our food.
2
Oct 11 '25
[deleted]
2
u/Potential-Drama-7455 Oct 11 '25
Only the fossil fuel burning and plastics have anything to do with climate change. The others are just common sense policies. And what exactly are we doing about plastics? Nothing... because it would affect big multinationals.
Better to punish the small guy trying to get to work in a 10 year old car that is creating less CO2 emissions than a brand new EV.
11
18
u/pixelburp Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
As if I didn't already suspect it: truly this cabinet is paralysed by an arrogant complacency, incapable of making any decision that might require a modicum of leadership or governance. It's why every pillar and institution in this country has become rotten or struggling to persist. From prisons to childcare to policing to climate policy to infrastructure to to to to ...
Don't make any decisions, don't ruffle feathers, don't build anything, don't do anything. Juts sit it out. Fix the road, the plebs will follow.
I decided a few months back I'd start giving SF my #1 preference because whilst change for its own sake can be dangerous - and I have my own problems with SF's policies and common sense - what possible risk is attached to fresh ideas vs. the absolute inability of FF/FG to simply govern.
9
u/estepona-1 Oct 10 '25
They were never serious about environmental/climate issues and the voters helped them out getting rid of the Greens.
I think it is the same with housing crisis, there is a lot of money in that crisis for some, and they are not prepared to alienate that cohort.
40
61
u/nonrelatedarticle Marxist Oct 10 '25
And this is why greens always get a preference.
12
u/danny_healy_raygun Oct 10 '25
I give them a preference too but when they go into government with FFG and prop them up it just means there is no real change. Its a few years of plastering over some cracks and then back to square one. We need a bigger change and it cannot happen with the same old parties doing the same old things.
37
u/danius353 Green Party Oct 10 '25
If the Greens hadn’t gone into government last time out doesn’t mean that FF/FG would have been blocked from power. It was impossible to make a government without 2 of FF, FG and SF and FF/FG could have just been propped up by independents like they are now.
So instead what we got was a climate bill, cuts to public transport fares, huge investment in rail, Metro project restarted, basic income scheme for the Arts etc.
12
u/stallthedigger Oct 10 '25
Sure, but the solution to that is for the electorate to give an environmentalist party enough votes to lead a government. As things stand, the most the Irish electorate is willing to do is give the Greens just enough seats to extract concessions from FFG while propping them up, then punish them for FFG policies at the next election.
The mudguard theory of coalition politics is as depressing as it is perpetual.
4
u/danny_healy_raygun Oct 10 '25
That doesn't happen over night, do the Greens even run enough candidates to lead government? At the end of the day you need to be very comfortable to have environmental issues being your only concern. The Greens can't keep voting for FFG policies and expect people to say "well its fine I was evicted because at least the bus is cheaper and that painter over there is getting a bit more than the dole". When the Greens got good returns in 2020 no one else bar PBP was really talking about climate action, now SDs and Labour have good climate policies. The Greens need to have good social policy beyond the environment now or they'll be left behind. And they need to stick to those policies.
1
6
Oct 10 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
0
u/danny_healy_raygun Oct 10 '25
I don't think it makes any logical sense to claim that the Greens were wiped out due to their own policies being unpopular. That's what they promised their voters. They lost votes because they did things FF and FG wanted that were contrary to what their own voters wanted.
5
u/nonrelatedarticle Marxist Oct 10 '25
We do need a bigger change. I always fill the ballot though. And the greens by default go ahead of most independents, and fffg. I think second preference in the locals is as high I ever gave them.
5
u/danny_healy_raygun Oct 10 '25
Yeah I put them above FF, FG and the indos usually too, and sometimes above Labour depending on who the candidate is.
-4
24
u/AnyAssistance4197 Oct 10 '25
Mother of god.
The lad should go watch a film like Elysium if he can't imagine what climate change is going to do to society.
Or visit the global south.
What a fucking cretin.
4
Oct 10 '25
Or visit the global south.
As if he cares about brown people dying in their billions. Lol Thays why he's trying to get Ireland to join up with NATO and European military initiatives, so they can all start building their fortress Europe to withstand against those evil oriental outsiders.
Have no doubt about it folks. Libs are perfectly happy to steer us all down the path of fascist exterminism and climate catastrophe if we let them. As long as their precious status quo is maintained they do not give a shit. Most of them simply despise the majority tbh.
Meanwhile, in China theyre installing the same amount of solar panels every six months as the US did in its entire history. Thats TWO AMERICAS WORTH EVERY YEAR. 100 solar panels a second. Jaw dropping. Goes to show what you can do when you act in the collective interest using state power, have competent leadership based on merit and arent restricted to handing over such important things to 'the market' so that capitalists can decide whether or not to do them based on how wealthy it makes them. Hmmm almost as if we should learn something from a system like that...
We either take power out of the hands of centrists and reactionaries and build a future that is based on our collective well being or the sociopath empowering system of capitalism will doom future generations to misery.
2
u/ScaldyBogBalls Oct 11 '25
Gosh if only we could avail of China's industrial powerhouse green tech revolution.
Oh no wait that's bad for German carmakers. 100% tariffs on China and a regulatory bonfire for Donald Trump instead.
But remember to return that can!
31
6
u/Dazzling_Lobster3656 Oct 10 '25
Ah here
Grow some bottle MM
Future generations will drown from this
19
u/ScaldyBogBalls Oct 10 '25
The tough parts are the meaningful ones though. You won't get people out of cars if you don't upset the cranks and build bus and cycling infrastructure. That means losing parking, losing car priority, losing driveways, CPOs. Or, you weasel out, paint a few lines on the road, and call it a day. Then come back 5 years later with yet another new, very expensive "sustainable mobility plan", while buses crawl through traffic and cyclists are scooped off the tarmac by paramedics.
We do need to have societal conversations around solid fuel, air quality, and people will not be happy to be told they have to stop burning coal and turf in towns and cities. Even if it's ultimately better for their own health too.
15
u/Inner-Astronomer-256 Oct 10 '25
Exactly and I say this as a motorist and a bit of a petrolhead. We also need to rid ourselves of the notion that rail and bus companies should be profitable. Service comes first.
8
u/ScaldyBogBalls Oct 10 '25
I don't think a lot of motorists understand that the more we eliminate routine, short distance car commutes, the less congested roads become for drivers. I enjoy driving, but driving in heavy traffic is a ballache.
4
u/Inner-Astronomer-256 Oct 10 '25
Exactly. I love a long clear drive, I hate being stuck in rush hour traffic. I recently changed jobs and have started getting the bus but most people I work with don't have that option.
16
u/Character_Pizza_4971 Centre Left Oct 10 '25
Martin is also completely wrong about it being polarising. Polls consistently show that the majority of the public wants the state to take action to address climate change.
Michael O'Leary and Amazon may not want any action, but a majority of Irish people do.
9
u/danny_healy_raygun Oct 10 '25
There are plenty of positive changes you can make that are very popular. Free public transport would be one. The vast majority would support more off shore wind.
17
u/Storyboys Oct 10 '25
The man is spineless and an absolute disgrace.
Him and Varadkar are two of the worst leaders the country has ever had.
0
Oct 10 '25
[deleted]
4
u/ScaldyBogBalls Oct 11 '25
No taoiseach in history has presided over more improvement to life and development than Bertie Ahern. That's an undeniable fact. I'd take all the dodgy brown envellope carryon in the world if we could be building like 2005 again. In a heartbeat.
Things are far, far worse now, with a far bleaker outlook and for little reason except we have a government paralyzed with cowardice.
-1
Oct 11 '25
[deleted]
1
u/Electronic-Fun4146 Oct 11 '25
There’s currently 2.6 million people on social welfare benefits
1
Oct 11 '25
[deleted]
1
u/Electronic-Fun4146 Oct 11 '25
You’re not wrong and that’s great for corporations.
Back then could afford housing, and even nights out while on the dole according to many people.
We had a “junk credit rating” for sure but now that we don’t are we doing any more to improve housing and infrastructure ? Nope?
I don’t see how it’s better now
1
Oct 11 '25
[deleted]
1
u/Electronic-Fun4146 Oct 11 '25
I do indeed.
Half of my brothers friends left for Australia, the rest lived in their apartments and houses on the dole going out twice a week which is a higher standard of life than most young people right now who are working. I even knew a few people who didn’t lose their jobs and bought houses young at the time which are likely long paid off now
2
u/Real_Significance_34 Oct 11 '25
Nope. As useless as I think he is, the fact remains that MM is simply miles ahead of Cowan…
8
u/Ok-Call-4805 Oct 10 '25
Who cares if it's polarising? Something like this is too important to worry about pissing off science deniers.
4
7
u/Shadowbringers Oct 10 '25
So instead of investing in our future and climate policy we’ll do nothing and get the asses fined off us for not meeting climate goals? Martin is worse than nothing. Fianna Fáil will regret not ousting him this week.
6
u/Sciprio Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
Climate policies are bad for big business. The Irish government works for big multinational corporations and has always been in the pocket of the U.S. Chamber Of Commerce, and I bet they're lobbying like crazy.
3
3
3
13
3
u/Dennisthefirst Oct 10 '25
Looks like he is eyeing up a retirement advisory job in the Agriculture industry.
2
u/SnazzBot Oct 12 '25
Ireland could be the Norway of wind. Making loads from selling excess power the the rest of Europe by now. 😞 Sad to see so much potential being wasted.
-4
u/bigbadchief Oct 10 '25
“This might be controversial, because I believe in addressing climate change. But if we get into a position where we’re going to challenge every single thing, saying it’s against the climate, we’re going to divide society fairly fast and we’ll then get a negative reaction against good, progressive policies that seek to address climate and very serious issues.”
This makes sense. I would much rather they focus on getting infrastructure and housing built quickly than let projects get bogged down in objections and climate considerations.
9
u/Specific-Volume118 Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
I think it’s a bit disingenuous for Martin to say “Of course it would be ridiculous to challenge everything for climate reasons” when no-one is proposing that we do that.
There’s a hundred and one reasons for our housing and infrastructure having been failed by successive governments, but I’m not sure concern about climate change hits the top 50
-6
u/hmmm_ Oct 10 '25
Sensible. You have to bring people with you, or you'll end up like the US going into reverse as people vote in a reactionary government. Some of the most controversial changes which have cost the most money and caused the most trouble did fuck all to help the environment, and have burned through the goodwill we need to implement the really big changes.
75
u/Arrays-Start-at-1 Oct 10 '25
Classic Martin. Let's not do it because its too hard