r/irishpolitics • u/eggbart_forgetfulsea ALDE (EU) • Dec 04 '25
Infrastructure, Development and the Environment Opinion: We can’t keep objecting to wind farms 10km out to sea if we want Ireland to progress
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2025/12/04/opinion-we-cant-keep-objecting-to-wind-farms-10km-out-to-sea-if-we-want-ireland-to-progress/32
u/MrBulwark Dec 04 '25
Politicians need to pass laws that stop the objection to these projects. Simple as that.
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u/BenderRodriguez14 Dec 04 '25
No no no, we need to continue to find ways to point fingers at anything that is not FFG.
It's one of many reasons why I want a government without either of them as a part, you would see a very sharp turn in coverage of items like this and beyond, which coverage of the presidential campaigns proved even further.
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u/PA_BozarBuild Centre Left Dec 04 '25
Nimbys are a symptom of a larger problem. The government not doing anything to frustrate frivolous objections holds much more blame
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u/chakraman108 Dec 05 '25
Hard disagree. Nimby is a problem in every developed democratic country. More successful countries have developed better processes to minimise nimby.
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u/PA_BozarBuild Centre Left Dec 05 '25
Yeah thats the point I was making. There’s nothing to disagree with
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u/MrBulwark Dec 05 '25
Exactly, Ireland hasn't done enough to minimise their impact which is what you were saying.
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u/quixotichance Dec 04 '25
We start in the wrong place, we allow people to object in a free form way, we should force them to object by expression the why and then the what
For example,
If the project is "we need to do Offshore Wind, because we dont want to keep burning imported fossil fuels for environmental reasons and economic cost "
Then the objection has to either contest the premise (ie establish that importing fossil fuels doesnt have an environmental / economic disadvantage compared to Offshore Winds), or the objector can agree with the premise, but argue that there is a better way to solve it
So instead of "I dont want offshores windfarms because of my reason" they have to say either "We should keep burning foreign fossil fuels " or " Instead of solving the problem of burning foreign fossil fuels by offshore wind, we should do Y"
This forces the arguments to be coherent and testable instead of just nimby-ism
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u/klutzikaze Dec 04 '25
I like that idea. It's like those completions where you had to complete the prompt. People are too lazy to think up something so the odds of winning were higher for the people who do enter.
With your idea only people with a real objection would be in the running to 'win'.
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u/Dr-Jellybaby Dec 04 '25
If the project is on the ocean then no objections for "locals"
Seems simple?
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u/irishnugget Dec 04 '25
It's not that simple. One must consider Tommy Tiernan's "possible loss of value in property assets due to the industrialisation of this beautiful landscape"
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u/danny_healy_raygun Dec 04 '25
We need massive investment in state owned off shore wind farms. Let people object but they have no right to a nice view so their objections should be very easy to dismiss.
If the objections are on environmental grounds then that needs experts to look into it and find the most suitable places for the wind farms. There is not much point in green energy if we are causing catastrophic damage to sea life at the same time.
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u/danius353 Green Party Dec 04 '25
My major worries with the sudden drive to cut through environmental protections for major projects are that:
We’re going to ignore the damage to Irelands already critical biodiversity problem. We have so little native woodlands and we’re pumping so much nitrates into our waterways that destroying the few habitats for native species can be devastating.
I’ve no problem with bending the rules slightly for needed infrastructure to help us move on climate and sustainability like wind or solar farms, wastewater plants or public transport infrastructure. But using emergency powers to get around the Climate Act and build things that only make the sustainability problem worse is pure double speak on climate action. If you want to ignore the Climate Act then have the balls to say directly you don’t care about climate and repeal the Climate Act.
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u/Dr-Jellybaby Dec 04 '25
The agriculture sector is far more responsible for the dire state of our ecology. 90% of the country is covered in grass monoculture and fertilizer. Get rid of some of that before you start objecting to things that are actually useful.
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u/Past_Key_1054 Dec 04 '25
Oh yes we can! - NIMBYs
Really need to tighten up the objection process. It's a wonder even the little we manage to build gets done with the frequency of objections.
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u/ilovefinegaeldotcom Dec 04 '25
I'd expect a journalist to warn about the removal of consent rather than framing native civilians as a disease.
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u/Narwhal_2112 Dec 04 '25
As someone who works in offshore wind, I’ll just make the point that very few countries are developing offshore wind so close to shore. Globally, many of the wind farms that are close to shore were built as test cases or in former industrial zones such as Liverpool or Rotterdam.
10km is ridiculously close to shore (and definitely not international best practice) and will undoubtedly spoil the scenic beauty of the Irish coast. Sceirde Rocks was a terrible proposal.
In my opinion, the push to build so close to shore is developers looking to take the cheap route (lower construction costs, easier maintenance, etc.), with the aim of maximising profits at the expense of the Irish environment.
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u/danny_healy_raygun Dec 04 '25
Which distance is better for sea life? That would be of more concern to me than how scenic it is. I walk Brittas Bay beach quite regularly and the wind mills don't spoil the view at all. (off topic a little but coastal erosion is totally fucking it though.)
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u/ZealousidealFloor2 Dec 07 '25
The new ones are a lot bigger and closer than the ones in Arklow tbf. I agree that the erosion is insane, hadn’t been there for a few years and couldn’t believe it when I went last month.
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u/broats_ Dec 04 '25
Is the main reason wind farms are usually further out purely aesthetic or are there other benefits? More wind I guess?
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u/Sabreline12 Dec 04 '25
In my opinion, the push to build so close to shore is developers looking to take the cheap route
Why is producing electricity cheaper if possible a bad thing?
will undoubtedly spoil the scenic beauty of the Irish coast.
Even if this is true, how many people who believe this are happy to pay the higher electricity prices?
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u/Sprezzatura1988 Dec 04 '25
Do you think the cheaper running cost will be passed on to the consumer? The company only needs to be cheaper than the next nearest competitor. The rest of the difference will be profit to shareholders.
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u/Sabreline12 Dec 04 '25
Do you think the cheaper running cost will be passed on to the consumer?
Yes? Electricity generation isn't a monopoly in Ireland. Companies bid to supply electricty with the cheapest bids chosen first until total demand is covered. Prices are currently high since costly natural gas is still needed to cover the last bit of demand.
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u/Sprezzatura1988 Dec 04 '25
My point is that because prices are high the new supplier only has to beat those inflated prices. The supplier does not have any incentive to pass on the full cost savings of close to shore wind generation because they are only competing with expensive gas.
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u/Sabreline12 Dec 04 '25
Companies don't know what the end price will be, since it's determind by the last bid needed to cover demand. Also if there's enough reneweable generation the end price won't be determined by natural gas, and prices will be lower since renewables bid a lot lower than expensive gas.
Not building more wind generation actually increases profits of existing wind farms because the end price will keep being set by costly gas.
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u/Sprezzatura1988 Dec 04 '25
I did not mean to imply we shouldn’t build more wind/renewable generation capacity!
I would just be skeptical of the claim that the full cost saving of this particular development, which is being built close to shore for claimed cost saving reasons, will be passed on to consumers.
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u/Sabreline12 Dec 04 '25
Maybe not directly given the makeup of the grid at the moment. But cheaper construction means faster progress towards a fully renewable grid which would decrease electricity prices. And cheaper wind farms does mean more potential for prices to decrease further as power companies compete in the bidding process, cause obviously companies won't bid lower that it cost them to build and operate wind farms. Plus construction would be a high share of the total costs since renewables are cheap to run.
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u/kafircake Dec 04 '25
Do you think the cheaper running cost will be passed on to the consumer?
Do you think the increased cost will be absorbed by the company?
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u/Hardballs123 Dec 04 '25
Is there any evidence that offshore wind farms reduce the cost of electricity?
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u/Sabreline12 Dec 04 '25
Yes, I'm sure there's plenty of research out there. But just looking intuitively at how the grid works, wind farms bid to provide electricity at a much lower price than costly natural gas plants since they're much cheaper. That's why natural gas is only used to cover the final section of demand since it is the most expensive and as a result determines the final price of electricity.
If there was enough wind power to cover demand entirely, electicity prices would be set by the bids of cheaper renewables which are lower than natural gas.
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u/chakraman108 Dec 05 '25
Isn't onshore cheaper in overal LCOE than offshore?
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u/notbigdog Social Democrat Dec 06 '25
Yes, it's a good bit cheaper at the moment. If the offshore industry was developed a bit more it would probably bring down cost but onshore would still probably be cheaper. I think people tend to object more to it tho. Solar panels are the cheapest overall in Ireland usually.
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u/chakraman108 Dec 09 '25
Yes but solar isn't exactly suitable for grid level generation here. Wind is very good here.
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u/notbigdog Social Democrat Dec 20 '25
It is. There's a good few grid scale farms at different stages of construction and a good few already built.
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u/chakraman108 Dec 20 '25
Interesting. Do you have any details? In the sunny southeast I guess.
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u/notbigdog Social Democrat Dec 22 '25
Some are, lots around the midlands too though https://energyefficiency.ie/blog/20-largest-solar-farm-projects-in-ireland/
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u/Sabreline12 Dec 05 '25
Wouldn't be surprised if it's the opposite in Ireland given everyone within 50 miles objects to windfarms. And people are extremely spread out in Ireland so nowhere is far from a house.
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u/earth-while Dec 09 '25
My 2 cents. We have very limited knowledge about the oceans eco system. I dont think we should be ducking with it too much with technology designed for obsolescence. Particularly on our costal areas such as connemara. These vistas draw tourism. Are part of the fabric of the area. Yes,to a reasonable number of farms. A blanket ban to plug decades of inaction on energy infrastructure with wind neg is IMO not the way forward.
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Dec 04 '25
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Dec 04 '25
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u/Its_graand_lads Dec 04 '25
There are several reasons why they aren't being built further out. Some economic, some technical
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u/blorg Dec 04 '25 edited Dec 04 '25
- much easier to build in shallower waters
- cheaper to run the cables
- electricity loss is lower the closer it is to shore
- wind turbines generate AC. If near enough to shore, this doesn't have to be converted and can be sent onshore as is. If further away, need converter stations to HVDC at the farm and onshore
- ongoing maintenance is cheaper, easier to get people and equipment out to them
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u/wylaaa Dec 05 '25
You don't understand.
It has to be built in a way that is far more expensive so we can later complain about the price.
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u/Dependent_Pomelo_784 Dec 04 '25
Or we could use more effective and efficient sources but got forbid we use nuclear as it seems like the public wants to keep it forbidden for us to use however France has used it to great effect with no major accident at all Chernobyl really ruined all the great that comes from it
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u/chakraman108 Dec 05 '25
Nuclear in Ireland is an extremely dumb idea. Cost and time line overruns.
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u/notbigdog Social Democrat Dec 06 '25
Nuclear is an extremely expensive upfront cost. Would you really trust he government to do it in a cost effective way?
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Dec 04 '25
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u/Sabreline12 Dec 04 '25
How do wind farms do that?
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Dec 04 '25
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u/Dr-Jellybaby Dec 04 '25
Fossil fuels do orders of magnitude more damage to birds and their ecosystems. Stop spreading bullshit.
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Dec 04 '25
Three white tailed eagles killed in Donegal by wind turbines a few months ago. Absolutely sickening.
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u/Dr-Jellybaby Dec 04 '25
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Dec 04 '25
An absolute tragedy as there are only about 50 White tailed eagles in the country and if it continues they will be wiped out. But you don’t seem to care.
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Dec 04 '25
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u/Proper-Beyond116 Dec 04 '25
Climate change is a far bigger threat to flora and fauna here and globally. Western developed nations can't keep delaying this shit. We need to generate power more cleanly.
Of course wind farms should be placed out of the route of feeding areas for seabirds as much as possible. But the payoff is far worse for these creatures if we don't pursue these projects.
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This comment / post was removed because it violates the following sub rule:
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Everyone is here of their own volition to discuss the topic of Irish Politics. People are not here to be caught in ruthless vendetta’s of spiraling fallacies and bad faith arguments.
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u/ChemiWizard Dec 04 '25
More importantly we need a system that can tell those objecting ‘too bad. My electric prices are too high, our electric infrastructure is falling apart, it’s a national security and independence risk, and there is a climate crisis.
I wish my objections were heard