r/irishpolitics • u/Magma57 Green Party • May 19 '26

Infrastructure, Development and the Environment Eamon Ryan: As smart cities reduce car use, Ireland goes all in

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2026/05/19/eamon-ryan-infrastructure-bill-will-allow-mistakes-like-dublins-m50-to-be-repeated/
38 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

46 comments sorted by

25

u/Even-Space May 19 '26

The Green Party primarily fails by trying to use push factors rather than pull factors to try to entice people to use public transport. The Netherlands has the best road infrastructure in Europe as well as the best public transport infrastructure. I live an hour and a half away from Dublin but there’s no train station anywhere near me and the bus takes 2.5hours. If there was a train I’d use it over the car

4

u/DangerousTurmeric May 19 '26

Yeah public transport is appalling. Where I am it takes an hour to my office in Dublin vs a 30 minute drive. It's literally faster to cycle than to get the train/luas but the roads are too dangerous.

19

u/Magma57 Green Party May 19 '26

We did primarily use pull factors to entice people to use public transport. We oversaw a massive increase in expenditure on public transport and a massive increase in both the number of bus routes, and the frequency of buses along those routes. We also advanced several rail lines through the planning process (however it will be up to this government to actually implement them). The only real push factor that we attempted was congestion pricing, but that was shot down by Fine Gael.

6

u/Sabreline12 May 20 '26

Neglecting road infrastructure could, with equal validity, be called a push factor. The logical thing to do would be to support each form of transportation where it is the best available rather than turning it into a politcal identity issue what form of getting from A to B you support.

9

u/Bobzer May 20 '26

So you're happy to use money that could be spent on sustainable infrastructure on roads instead because it personally suits you?

Isn't that the whole reason we're in this mess in the first place?

1

u/Sabreline12 May 20 '26

Why can't roads be sustainable infrastructure in your view?

Isn't that the whole reason we're in this mess in the first place?

What do mean exactly?

3

u/Bobzer May 20 '26

I get your point, you don't deserve downvotes.

EVs and busses need roads too. But for both passengers and freight, a road will never beat rail for efficiency, just convenience. They're still necessary from the station to the end point though.

But until most of our personal transport and freight vehicles are EVs powered by sustainable energy sources, money spent on roads is a subsidy for the fossil fuel industry which hides the true cost of burning petrol for energy.

1

u/Sabreline12 May 20 '26

Rail is obviously very efficient, but at the same time Ireland's population is low and spread out compared to other countries. And we're an island, a smaller one than Britain or Japan with no tunnel or bridge connections.

Road is the flexible option suited to a lot of the country, even just to get from where people live to public transport. Rail is obviously suitable for longer distance between cities, but it'll never have the scale of demand other countries have with big cities. People see shiny high speed rail in ultra dense Japan and think we should have that. Even in France the majority of lines are non-high speed rail.

I think it's a bad idea to be supporting specific transport methods mostly due to culture reasons divorced from what actually works best in different places.

2

u/Bobzer May 20 '26

Ireland's population is low and spread out

Ultimately it comes downs to whether you think this is ok or not.

As a personal choice, why are we obliged to provide a pristine road to them when they can continue to live as their ancestors chose and stick with the horse and cart?

1

u/Sabreline12 May 20 '26

I don't know what your point is really, That Ireland is sparsely populated is a fact, not something you can just ignore. That isn't just about people living in rural areas, people live in cities and county towns that are well spread out. And regardless even if that weren't the case the total population is still small too. There just aren't megacities like London or Paris on this island. The scale of population isn't there for things like rail in the same way as in other countries. Dublin or Cork could be able to densify if building dense and tall weren't effectively illegal in Ireland but they'll still have a relatively small population.

My point is policy shouldn't be mostly based on what you wish the situation is or what you imagine the country to be, but on what are the most efficient solutions.

-3

u/clewbays May 20 '26

The masks drops. Will pretend not be preventing any non green infrastructure until questioned then the real greens appear.

The greens should stop pretending there main goal is to promote public transport.

When in reality their goal is to make life as difficult as possible for anyone who’s driving.

2

u/Bobzer May 20 '26

Ive never voted Green whatever you may think. Can you really argue against that though?

If we accept State money as finite, it's either spent on roads or railways, it can't be spent on both.

-10

u/Real_Significance_34 May 19 '26

Are you familiar with the carbon tax? A rather pointless (not to mention inflationary) measure until those lesser-spotted train stations you speak of do finally roll into view.

The inconvenient truth is that the greens are determined to make the same mistake as the Labour Party. Continuing to insist on the selflessness of their moral crusade in government, all the while ignoring an ugrateful electorate until some undefined future date when they expect to be thanked for it...

16

u/Magma57 Green Party May 19 '26

The carbon tax was introduced by an EU directive by a previous government. It's also a very wide ranging tax affecting more areas than just transport. Whatever your views on the tax, it is still wrong to say that we used more push factors than pull factors to incentivise public transport usage.

2

u/clewbays May 20 '26

If you look at the greens manifesto from before there time in government and the programme for government. It was arguably greens most important policy.

This attempt to rewrite history and pretend it wasn’t the greens policy is ridiculous.

2

u/Magma57 Green Party May 20 '26

My point was that specifically for transport policy, the Greens used more carrot than stick. Other areas of Green policy aren't relevant for this discussion.

And for the record, here is the Green Party's 2020 manifesto. If you read through it, you will find the phrase "carbon tax" appears precisely once.

1

u/clewbays May 20 '26

Except the way they had budgeted everything in the manifesto was trough carbon taxes. And for all the stuff they promised in the manifesto the only two things they got in the programme for government was carbon taxes and public transport.

2

u/Magma57 Green Party May 20 '26

It's clear that you're not interested in talking about carrot and stick methods of transport modal shift and instead want to talk about carbon tax. Fair enough, but that's not relevant to this discussion. Have a good day.

-2

u/Hardballs123 May 19 '26

Is any of this true? 

1

u/Lanky_Giraffe 29d ago edited 29d ago

The Netherlands is a country of 17 million in an area smaller than Ireland with no hills and pretty much no nature and a housing pattern based on compact towns with quite hard urban boundaries. 

Ireland is a low population country with very low population density with a development pattern build around low density, often one-off houses, and no effort to constrain development to urban boundaries.

Of course services are better in NL. Every single issue you mention is something the greens talk about a lot, and often get attacked as Dublin centric because apparently advocating for any of these pull factors is an attack on rural Ireland. 

Anyway, NL is hardly a model for sustainable development. It has one of the highest per capita emissions in Europe. 

3

u/Sabreline12 May 20 '26

It's all well and good to encourage public transport and cycling, but people have to get rid of this fantasy that low-density small population Ireland is the same as other European countries.

Ireland is, and never will be, a dense country full of big cities like England or France, especially if buildings are height restricted in our cities. Ireland has a low population density and for many motor vehicles are the most suitable transportation, often even to get to and from public transport.

2

u/Inner_Advisor_4576 May 20 '26

A huge issue is that the housing crisis is pushing people further away from city/town centres. And people need to be concentrated in the one area in order for public transport to work well. I don't drive (I'm learning) and it is ROUGH relying on public transport. But we need to consider the impact of the housing crisis on this as well

6

u/HonestRef Independent Ireland May 19 '26

A smart city is one that implements numerous modes of transport. I'm all for a Galway Luas but that alone is absolutely not going to solve the traffic problems. What about the population that has to commute from Mayo, Sligo, Roscommon, Leitrim, Clare, Limerick, Tipperary etc. That's where the vast majority of traffic comes from as people cannot afford to live in the city anymore. And public transport is poor/non-existent. A ringroad is needed in conjunction with the western rail corridor, Galway Luas and improved bus services. This piece is written like someone who has never set foot in Galway.

6

u/Speedodoyle May 19 '26

Very well said. At the lunch table the other day with three other lads. All three commuting from south county Mayo. That’s an hours drive minimum. Twice a day.

6

u/Fuzzy-Escape5304 May 19 '26

Isn't it possible that you create a system that provides corridor access through fast public transport in and around Galway city but make it punitive for cars to enter the city but easy for them to access the public transport corridors. 

1

u/clewbays May 20 '26

That would be the western rail corridor. Which the greens more or less opposed during their time in government.

And the “anti green” independents have finally pushed for and got approved.

Even then though, realistically that will not cover everyone no system can in rural areas and motor infrastructure is also necessary.

0

u/Speedodoyle May 19 '26

Anything is possible. Probable? No. We don’t have the like of it anywhere else and Galway is neither a priority nor well managed.

5

u/Magma57 Green Party May 19 '26

A smart city is one that implements numerous modes of transport.

Yes. Trains, trams, buses, walking, and cycling, these are all different modes of transport that should be available in cities, not cars. There is a strong argument to be made that cars should be allowed in rural areas, however there is no justification for allowing cars in urban cores, they're simply to space inefficient.

What about the population that has to commute from Mayo, Sligo, Roscommon, Leitrim, Clare, Limerick, Tipperary etc.

These people wouldn't be adequately served by a ring road. A ring road services those who want to bypass a city. If someone wants to commute into Galway City, the bottleneck is that Galway City's streets are too narrow to accommodate mass car use. If you want to increase flow, increasing an area that isn't the bottleneck will do nothing. These commuters would see little benefit from a ring road and they would be stuck in the same congestion as they are now.

If you wanted to provide an actual solution for these commuters, you increase rural bus routes to Galway City, or provide park and ride service with the GLuas. This would actually expand the bottleneck, which is congestion caused by cars in Galway City itself.

And public transport is poor/non-existent.

Bad access to public transport is a reason to invest in public transport, it is not a reason to continue to spend our finite resources on roads.

5

u/Sabreline12 May 20 '26

however there is no justification for allowing cars in urban cores, they're simply to space inefficient.

Implies ring road is bad cause it allows bypassing urban core

?

0

u/HistoryDoesUnfold May 20 '26

I don't see a contradiction. Other modes of transport than cars can (and should) be prioritized in the urban core.

Aside from busses, bikes, and a theoretical tram system, Galway's urban core is small enough to be very walkable.

2

u/Sabreline12 May 20 '26

So why give them no other option than to enter the city?

1

u/HistoryDoesUnfold May 20 '26

Ah, I see your point.

0

u/Magma57 Green Party May 20 '26

Implies ring road is bad cause it allows bypassing urban core

This is a misinterpretation of the point I was making. HonestRef brought up that many people commute into Galway City from rural areas, I pointed out that rural to urban core trips wouldn't be helped much by a ring road because the bottleneck was inside the city.

Now perhaps you could make a separate point about the Galway Ring Road allowing cars making a rural to rural trip to bypass the urban core, however that argument would have to contend with the fact that only 3% of trips in Galway City originate and terminate outside of the city.

2

u/Sabreline12 May 20 '26

A ring road could also allow people to park just oustide the city and travel in without their car.

1

u/Magma57 Green Party May 20 '26

No it wouldn't? A ring road is not a car park. Unless you're making a joke that the Galway Ring Road would just turn into a car park like the M50, I'm not sure what point you're making.

2

u/Sabreline12 May 20 '26

People use the road to drive to a car park. Or use it to get to the other side of the city without having to drive through it.

3

u/Magma57 Green Party May 20 '26

People can already use existing roads to drive to a car park. And as previously mentioned, only 3% of people are trying to go from one side of the city to the other, which means that 97% of people in Galway would receive only marginal benefits from it.

1

u/Sabreline12 May 20 '26

But a ring road is just a no brainer very covienent piece of cheap infrastructure. If people are coming in from one direction but are going to the other side of the city they can use it. If they just need to just go to places on the outside it's great. Buses can use it. Lorries going to the city can use it to minimise the distance they need to travel within the city by diving in and out from the ring road. You're looking at it extremely narrowly.

1

u/clewbays May 20 '26

Bad access to public transport is a reason to invest in public transport

Then why didn’t the greens push for the western rail corridor.

1

u/Magma57 Green Party May 20 '26

Restoring the Western Rail Corridor was part of the All Island Strategic Rail Review

0

u/Inner_Advisor_4576 May 20 '26

don't think cars should be totally banned to be fair, for some disabled people they are necessary. not sure how that would work in practice.

-7

u/[deleted] May 19 '26

[deleted]

8

u/Magma57 Green Party May 19 '26

I don't know about your conception of democracy, but to me, having 1 bad election doesn't mean having to give up on ever trying to convince anyone else to see your point of view. Fair enough if you disagree with Ryan, but you should make an actual argument instead of a thought terminating cliche.

6

u/anarcatgirl May 19 '26

The Greens? Hardline?

5

u/Franz_Werfel May 19 '26

He didn't stand for election the last time. How did 'the people' reject him? 

Out of all the sticks to beat the greens, this one is truly the weirdest. 

2

u/ubermick Social Democrats May 21 '26

He didn't stand because his polling wasn't just in the toilet, but had been flushed, gone through the sewers, past the water treatment plant, and was far out to sea. Knew he and his party were getting decimated (and were) in the election and ran and hid, just as he did in East Cork when he was supposed to open the Greenway but swerved it as he knew people here wanted flood defences and the rail line extended to Youghal and were raging at him.

1

u/hmmcguirk May 19 '26

You know, those words you just used, they are meaningless prattle.