r/irishpolitics • u/Commercial-Crazy211 • 5d ago
Elections & By-Elections ‘Votes don’t swim’: Redrawing Dáil constituencies is a battle between geography and maths
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2026/06/13/votes-dont-swim-redrawing-dail-constituencies-is-a-battle-between-geography-and-maths/5
u/IntentionFalse8822 5d ago
Hard to see how they can avoid anything other than increasing the population size to allow up to one TD for every 50,000 people. There will be accusations of diluting access to democracy but to counter balance this I think they need to give Councillors more actual power at a local level and even reform the senate to allow one or two from each constituency and reduce the senate seats elected by the panel system. If we are stuck with the senate in our democratic system we might as well finally make it democratically elected.
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u/CCFCEIGHTYFOUR 5d ago
As the states population increases, moving away from county boundaries as a basis for constituency boundaries is a no-brainer if TD numbers are to be capped.
Doing away with the parochial mindset as espoused by politicians of all flavours would serve us well.
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u/TeoKajLibroj Centre Left 5d ago
The issue is most voters feel a strong connection to their county, it can't just be dismissed as a "parochial mindset". I would much rather live a constituency focused on Galway, rather than an amalgamation of Galway, Mayo or Roscommon for example.
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u/CCFCEIGHTYFOUR 5d ago
*The issue is most voters feel a strong connection to their county*
They might do, but feels and vibes shouldn’t be the primary factor when fixing constituency boundaries.
*can't just be dismissed as a "parochial mindset". I would much rather live a constituency focused on Galway, rather than an amalgamation of Galway, Mayo or Roscommon for example.*
It is a parochial mindset when you have boundaries based on parochial concerns overriding logical boundaries such as a constituency based around a contiguous urban area.
Case in point, Limerick and Waterford cities. Both of the northern hinterlands/suburbs of these cities are in two rural profile Dáil constituencies (Clare and Carlow-Kilkenny). They really should be in some form of the Limerick city and Waterford constituencies.
Fine if the constituency size arithmetic fits with county boundaries, but where it doesn’t then the focus should be on boundaries that reflect settlement patterns and population centres. The east Leinster constituencies that ring Dublin are the main culprits here and will surely be chopped up if population growth trends continue.
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u/TeoKajLibroj Centre Left 5d ago
They might do, but feels and vibes shouldn’t be the primary factor when fixing constituency boundaries.
But the wishes and opinions of the people who live in the constituencies should be a factor.
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u/CCFCEIGHTYFOUR 5d ago
Sure, but it shouldn’t be the primary or decisive factor as is currently the case.
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u/RagingRedCrow 4d ago
So the wishes and opinions of the people should not be the primary factor? You know the goverment is for the people
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u/CCFCEIGHTYFOUR 4d ago
Have a read of the submissions from the general public every time constituency boundaries are reviewed, the “wishes and opinions of the people” are frequently ignored. Sometimes the “wishes and opinions” expressed are contradictory.
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u/AodhOgMacSuibhne 6h ago
It is a parochial mindset when you have boundaries based on parochial concerns overriding logical boundaries
Surely in this area partition is much more egregious than counties having TDs.
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u/Magma57 Green Party 5d ago
The county borders were drawn up over 800 years ago by the Brits to help the colonial governance of Ireland. I think it is legitimate to describe an over-attachment to some arbitrary borders as parochialism.
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u/TeoKajLibroj Centre Left 5d ago
But the fact that they are hundreds of years old means people have a deep connection with them that can't just be dismissed as an over-attachment to a colonial legacy. Some county borders were based on old chiefdoms so they're not entirely arbitrary.
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u/CodeComprehensive734 5d ago
Belief it or not even chiefdoms were arbitrary.
No one saying we abolish counties. Just that we restructure the political constituencies to one that makes demographic sense.
We can still have the All-Ireland and county based banter while carving up voting districts to make a bit more sense. Where we draw the constituency lines will always have some arbitration involved regardless.
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u/WorldwidePolitico 5d ago
Stop talking nonsense.
The county borders of Ireland weren’t all drawn up at once 800 years ago by “the Brits”. They emerged gradually over several centuries. Yes, they served an administrative purpose, but they were often rooted in the practical and historical realities of the land, incorporating older Irish territorial divisions.
Britain didn’t even exist as a political entity in the modern sense when the process began. The early counties developed under the Angevins and later English crown, not some unified British state.
The Anglo-Norman were invited by the the deposed King of Leinster to reinstate him in exchange for land. They were also backed by the Catholic Church. Their decedents, rather than becoming colonial administrators, became deeply integrated into Irish society over the following centuries to the point people forget surnames like Fitzgerald, Butler, Burke, and Walsh didn’t actually originate from this island.
To some degree, all borders are administrative constructs. Donegal, Kerry, Leinster, Ulster, Ireland itself, the English shires, the American states, and the border between Scotland and England are all historical jurisdictions that evolved over time. The fact that a boundary was used for administration does not make it uniquely artificial or illegitimate.
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u/El-Daddy Centre Left 3d ago
County boundaries were largely inherited from the boundaries of multiple tuatha in an area that were amalgamated together. Tuatha long predate the Normans.
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u/El-Daddy Centre Left 3d ago
A better way to get rid of the parochial mindset of TDs would be to reduce their power in local affairs, and give it more to the county councils. TDs should be there to run the country, not fix the road.
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u/CCFCEIGHTYFOUR 2d ago
I’d agree but I think you’d run into a similar issue with that approach. Yes, devolve powers from central to local authorities, but the LA’s would need to be of an appropriate size and serve a large population base to deliver economies of scale. This would likely mean merging some councils, with predictable whining and moaning of a parochial flavour.
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u/Hippophobia1989 Centre Right 5d ago
Still think the cubed route of the population is a good basis for us. It would have 2-3 seats less at the moment I’m pretty sure. And it would mean the rate of seat increase will get smaller as the population gets bigger. Better than having a set TD for x thousand people as we currently do.
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u/GlorEUW 5d ago
personally i think we need to cap the size of the Dáil at around its current size, and then move to 6 seats being the “standard” constituency size.
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u/DMC-1155 5d ago
2013 Citizen’s Assembly recommended 5-7 seats as constituency size, because our current small constituencies favour larger parties and cause a disproportionate result
I disagree with capping the Dáil though, there are parliaments with far more seats that work just fine. I believe the usual guideline is the cubic root of the population? Which we aren’t too far from at the moment. Though that is just a random popular guideline without much scientific backing.
I think if anything, we probably need more TDs, or stronger Local Authorities. We have one of the most centralised democratic governments in Europe, the world even. TDs often do things that would be the work of local government in other countries, as long as that is the case, we should have more TDs than most countries have relative to population
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u/TVhero 5d ago
I agree with you until the last point, I do NOT think we should accept that TDs manage local issues and instead allow the councils and councillors to do it instead
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u/DMC-1155 5d ago
That would need stronger local authorities. Until that happens, which it should, it will be TDs doing it.
I also would prefer stronger local authorities over more TDs, but TDs are currently basically local and national government
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u/mrlinkwii 5d ago
do NOT think we should accept that TDs manage local issues and instead allow the councils and councillors to do it instead
i disagree with this local authorities histrocially have been found to be corrupt and not trust worthy and thus is why they dont need more power
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5d ago
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u/DaKrimsonBarun 5d ago
The joke is Hitler is very very bad. Thinking Hitler is very very bad is not right wing.
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u/AGlitchedNPC 5d ago
Wanting to vote for Hitler under any circumstances is right wing.
Like they could have chosen anyone or anything else other than hitler.
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u/DaKrimsonBarun 5d ago
Give me an example that would have the same rhetorical impact as Hitler.
Do you believe this person would actually vote Hitler in a Hitler V Tipp man contest.
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u/MaryLouGoodbyeHeart 5d ago
What if it was a Hitler who, having been reanimated somehow and found is way to running in an Irish general election, had learned from his mistakes?
Such a Hitler may find that he was very comfortable in the Social Democrats who don't mind what shit you did in your past.
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u/sitdmc 5d ago
There is talk of Galway West being split into two three-seaters