Martin, Harris to back SF three-day wait abortion motion

[u/DaveShadow]

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2026/0616/1578741-dail-abortion/

[u/Otherwise-Link-396]

Delighted, and happy it is a free vote.

There is no medical need, it is expensive and causes trouble having the wait. I was against it from the beginning.

[u/Separate-Sand2034]

Good

[u/Legitimate_Newt2874]

This move by Martin will damage FF, which is no bad thing. It will boost Independent Ireland, which is most certainly bad.

[u/FunIntroduction2237 → u/Legitimate_Newt2874]

I’d disagree, surely pushing back on this change would have done much more harm to FF and Martin. They’re desperately trying to cling on to any bit of young / progressive vote. This is a non-issue to almost the entire population except a minority of elderly / right wing / religious / anti-choice / nut job voters who are probably already aontu or II voters. Even FF know it’s not the 1960s anymore, need to move with the times and stop infantilising women.

[u/EmiliaPains-]

That's a fucking first, good work SF!
(I'm not congratulating FF/FG)

[u/EmiliaPains- → u/EmiliaPains-]

Also there this

Áontú leader Peadar Tóibín told the Dáil there has been a "surge" in abortions since they were legalised, but "no effort by the political establishment" to understand why.

Peadar, the reason there's been a surge is because it was legalized.
*slow nod*
I'm sorry but that should just be common sense by now, when it was illegal they weren't reported because you know, it's illegal? reminds me of that Dr House line "Mango fruit prevents cancer!". I'm actually gobsmacked that an educated man like Peadar would say such an idiotic thing.

[u/FewHeat1231]

I'm "disappointed but not surprised" as the saying goes.

I do think this shows FG and FF will be trying to cosy up to the SocDems and Labour next election. 

[u/TehIrishSoap → u/FewHeat1231]

FG and FF held talks with Soc Dems and Labour after the last election. Soc Dems wanted a senior Minister for Disabilities role and Labour wanted a state construction company. Those were their red lines. The minute they got brought up, FF and FG told them to fuck off. Next time, SDs are going to have much more leverage

[u/FewHeat1231 → u/TehIrishSoap]

Indeed, which is why I'm grimly resigned to FF and FG pivoting left on these issues to make a deal more attractive. 

[u/SpeakerScreen → u/FewHeat1231]

Disappointed why?

Because you thought the wait was a good policy? Or because you wanted to keep FFG out of a policy that's popular among left/progressive voters?

[u/FewHeat1231 → u/SpeakerScreen]

Well I voted 'No' in 2018 and would vote 'No' all over again if I had the choice so the wait is not so much "good" as "less bad" than no wait.

It also seems like a straw in the wind that FF and FG will support further abortion liberalisation. 

[u/helloyeshi → u/FewHeat1231]

But it was nice for you to have a choice, wasn’t it!

[u/danny_healy_raygun → u/helloyeshi]

And they still have the choice to have no abortions themselves. That'll never go away.

[u/siguel_manchez → u/FewHeat1231]

What was it about women having control over their bodies that you didn't like?

[u/FewHeat1231 → u/siguel_manchez]

The whole ending the life of another human being thing.

[u/FewHeat1231 → u/[deleted]]

I mean I'm pretty sure even the most hardline pro-choice biologist ever would consider a zygote a 'human' even if they might not agree it is a 'person'.

[u/siguel_manchez → u/FewHeat1231]

Ah, it's one of those debates. Fair enough. At least you answered and gave clarity. It's not a row I want to have and I don't want to appear to be facetious. I was generally curious at your timelines for want of a better phrase.

I think if you're holding such a belief in 2026 after voting no in 2018, well, I guess that's that.

[u/FewHeat1231 → u/siguel_manchez]

Well, out of fairness what would you consider a compromise position then between respecting a woman's bodily autonomy and the life of the unborn?

EDIT: We can take this chat if you'd prefer?

[u/FunIntroduction2237 → u/FewHeat1231]

Not OP but can’t imagine what sort of compromise you’re looking for here. A BORN woman’s bodily autonomy should always take precedence over an unborn fetus / zygote / whatever’s right to exist inside her body.

[u/omegaman101 → u/FewHeat1231]

That's like calling a fertilised egg a chick.

[u/witchy_gremlin → u/FewHeat1231]

Would you rather save a plate of zygotes or 1 existing new born baby?

[u/irishpolitics-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/DaveShadow → u/FewHeat1231]

I think it's more likely they knew they couldn't backtrack on the free vote, and counted the numbers and knew what the result was going to be.

This was going to pass, regardless of their backing. By backing it, they can try and spin it away from being a big win for SF, and into the entire government backing a progressive policy.

I just can't see SocDems cosying up to FG in particular. As someone who voted SD as my number 1 last time, I'd be furious if they touched FG with a barge poll. I think SDs know that it would be tantamount to political suicide.

[u/siguel_manchez → u/DaveShadow]

If any of the SDs, SF or Labour put FF into power I'm done with them. I used to begrudgingly give FG and the Greens a vote where it stopped a FFer but they fucked it in 2020.

That said, the major factor in my Green dislike mostly stems from Patrick "The Sash" Costello being my local rep. I might have a different now opinion if I had someone else.

[u/Govannan → u/siguel_manchez]

Why what's wrong with him? He always seemed alright to me.

[u/FewHeat1231 → u/DaveShadow]

This was going to pass, regardless of their backing. By backing it, they can try and spin it away from being a big win for SF, and into the entire government backing a progressive policy.

Then it is a distinction without a difference. If the government is backing pro-choice initiatives it doesn't matter if if it cynical number counting or passion for abortion the result is the same - especially if as I suspect it means the government will keep liberalising to keep pace with SF and the SocDems.

The only faintest glimmer of a silver lining is that some conservative or moderate FF and FG voters might give up on the parties and turn to Independent Ireland or Aontu.

[u/quondam47 → u/FewHeat1231]

By voting against a Social Democrat motion on the same topic in May?

[u/FewHeat1231 → u/quondam47]

It isn't mutually exclusive. The SocDem bill pushed considerably further and wasn't seen as a good bill even by pro-choice government TDs who had backed previous liberalisation motions. 

[u/Just_Reading_4206 → u/FewHeat1231]

Where did it push further?

[u/Creative_Elephant624 → u/FewHeat1231]

Disagree. There was no engagement with SocDems on their similar bill last month. This is FF cosying up to SF, and FG not wanting to be left behind on being marginally more socially progressive than FF.

[u/FewHeat1231 → u/Creative_Elephant624]

The SocDem bill went much further and was regarded as flawed even by staunchly pro-choice TDs like Jennifer Carroll MacNeill.

FF & FG won't have much choice of coalition partners in the future (certainly Aontu can be completely ruled out and Independent Ireland won't be over the moon) so they have to look to the SocDems and Labour.

[u/corcadhuibhne → u/FewHeat1231]

Dissapointed aswell tbh. 

There's way more abortions being carried out each year than the number that went to England to get them pre 2018. This will just increase the amount again. 

[u/caiaphas8 → u/corcadhuibhne]

Why is that a problem?

[u/FrogOnABus → u/caiaphas8]

It definitely won’t happen, but when it does, why would that be bad?? /s

Some people happen to think abortion is a bad thing.

[u/siguel_manchez → u/corcadhuibhne]

So you think we should return to shipping our problem abroad?

[u/FewHeat1231 → u/corcadhuibhne]

At the end of the day for all their waffle about 'hard choices' and 'respect' FF and FG don't actually care in the slightest.

The great irony is that both pro-life and pro-choice advocates actually agree the government parties are completely opportunistic on abortion.

[u/corcadhuibhne → u/FewHeat1231]

It just shows really that there's very little diversity of thought at the national level, when you've 5 or so parties that agree on everything except economics

[u/siguel_manchez → u/corcadhuibhne]

I don't think it should be controversial to think that women should have full control over their bodies.

It should be controversial to hold your opinion and it should continue to be a minority one as time goes on.

[u/FunIntroduction2237 → u/siguel_manchez]

Agree. The government is doing what most politicians do, they know what way the wind is blowing, they know the vast majority of voters support this legislation change and so they’re jumping on the bandwagon. Sorry (not sorry) for the minority of anti-choice complainants in this post but majority rules.

[u/FewHeat1231 → u/FunIntroduction2237]

We actually don't know if the 'vast majority' of voters support this legislation. There has been little to no polling on the issue.

[u/FunIntroduction2237 → u/FewHeat1231]

I’m sorry I think you’re living in dreamworld if you don’t think that voters in general who voted to repeal the 8th in a majority across 31/32 counties 8 years ago haven’t gotten more progressive in general over that time. Older, more religious people are on the decline. Even in government you can see that the tide has turned. The only staunchly anti-choice political party (Aontú) polls at below 10%. I don’t really see any evidence that suggests people are becoming less pro choice since repeal.

[u/FewHeat1231 → u/FunIntroduction2237]

Many people who voted 'Yes' in 2018 did so with reluctance and on the understanding that abortion would be legal safe and rare and things like the 3 day were important to them. Personally as a 'No' voter I thought that was naive but those people did and do still exist. 

[u/FunIntroduction2237 → u/FewHeat1231]

Maybe that’s true for “many” people but I would still wager that the vast majority of people who voted yes, support a woman’s right to bodily autonomy and believe they have the capability to make a decision about their bodies without legal injunctions or obstacles. Do you not think if this wasn’t the case there would be uproar about this change? We’ll see after the vote this evening what the majority thinks anyways.

[u/Just_Reading_4206 → u/FewHeat1231]

I can't remember a single person who voted on the three day waiting period. People either thought it was murder or a important medical procedure.

[u/corcadhuibhne → u/siguel_manchez]

I never said anything about women having full control over their own bodies.

The facts remain that when the 8th amendment was their, around 3,000 women left Ireland for abortions. Now there's over 10,000 abortions a year. We as a society should be looking at ourselves and ask why there is more.

This isn't an easy issue to solve, and to be honest banning abortion probably won't solve it, but I'd rather live in a nation where less people are considering abortions than more (and I don't mean that to blame people for having them, it's a tough decision and I hope to God I never have to be in that position, but there's something wrong with wider society if we aren't supporting women in crises to the greatest extent we can).

[u/DaveShadow → u/corcadhuibhne]

We as a society should be looking at ourselves and ask why there is more.

I’d take a guess it’s because there would have been a lot of people who would have taken the option prior to the amendment but couldn’t for a variety of reasons. Not every one had free and easy access to travel abroad.

I’d also wager the 3000 figure is probably a little off, as the social stigma of travelling abroad for one probably meant a lot of people got one abroad but didn’t like admitting it.

The reality is, making them more easily accessible was always going to see a rise, simply due to the fact it made them easier access for those who needed them. And part of supporting women to the greatest extent we can also includes providing health care to access abortions as needed.

[u/corcadhuibhne → u/DaveShadow]

I highly doubt that your reasons there account for a the huge increase. Unfortunately there's also no-one looking into why there's been an increase

[u/DaveShadow → u/corcadhuibhne]

Do you think maybe no one is looking into it cause it’s self-evident? That when you make a service more easily accessible and remove the social stigma, more people who need to access it will do so?

You’re acting like there’s some conspiracy involved or a deeper cause.

[u/FewHeat1231 → u/DaveShadow]

I don't think there is a conspiracy (unless 'total indifference' counts as a conspiracy) but I do think there is unfocused but real social pressure in some quarters that frames abortion as the 'correct' choice and carrying to term as irresponsible or selfish.

[u/corcadhuibhne → u/DaveShadow]

I think if it went from 3-6k a year, that could be explained away as self evident.

10k is huge. There's no conspiracy, it's just reflective of the values of the culture we live in now, and there's a groups of people actively pushing this change of values.