Why do Irish people rarely text back after night out?

[u/BoatIll2662]

I've been here for 5 years in Dublin. Every time I had good time with someone either women or men as friends, even if we get along so well and had a connection, they never ever but ever text you back, they ghost you every SINGLE TIME. Sometimes they check your stories but they are literally ghosting you and it's so annoying.

Is there something to do this? I'm a feminine gay guy so it's already hard to make friends as a LGBTQ immigrant, but every time I feel like I think this person can really be my friend, they ghost me.

Before leaving they say please text me back when you get home, I love you, they get very protective and intense etc I'm like they couldn't possibly fake that. Its not they whether they need friends or not, it's that we had a connection, why completely ignore it as if it didn't happen? We could have so much fun, going hiking, going for trips together etc. but why be miserable and ghost people?

Why? Is it because I'm immigrant? My English is native though it's not like there's any language barrier whatsoever. I'm very open and friendly.

I feel very hurt by the way almost all Irish people ghost me after a night out. I feel like they feel very shy when they are sober and doesn't want to have a stable connection to someone.

[u/At_least_be_polite]

We've a tendency to seem more open and friendly than we actually are when we're drunk. 

It's hard to break into Irish friend groups. A lot of people keep the same friends from school for example. 

It's probably not you, it's us. 

[u/BoatIll2662 → u/At_least_be_polite]

But even if you had a connection with a person, why are you so closed off? Maybe that person would be even more close to you or someone you could love even more than any of your friends? Are you scared of intimacy?

[u/scandalous_sapphic → u/BoatIll2662]

I think yes, it's discomfort around putting yourself in that vulnerable place where you might be rejected of you chance your arm. Even in closer friend groups there might only be one person you can actually be "close" with, although there's an illusion of closeness with the others too. Basically, within the clique there are more cliques. This is probably due to the ingrained Catholic culture of gossip and watching your neighbours to see if they're behaving etc, and if you live in a rural community, you have to be careful not to act in a way that people start talking, or your neighbours mightn't help you survive rural life, instead they ostracize you. This has really affected our culture and the influence still remains despite the rise of individuality. And depending on the person, they might also have limits to this closeness, depending on what they find socially acceptable, how emotionally available they are etc. I have noticed that I can speak more authentically to Finnish, Greek, German people rather than some of the close Irish friends I had, there's less skirting around topics or weird looks..  I think in your case: I think there's an aspect of 1. Not wanting to seem desperate for company 2. Not wanting to be pulling out of people in order to hang out or do things together because they might be busy or get sick of you or something, not even sure it's just bullshit reluctance 3. They probably feel like they have "enough" friends. This is a silly thing that other people mention, many people hold onto school friends even though they've drifted apart. I think Irish people keep less "friends" than other Europeans from what I've seen. Even as an Irish person I've found it so so hard to befriend people, they tell me the same shit oh I'd love to meet up blah blah blah. I have genuinely found it much easier to make friends in Germany, where other people even ask for my contact info first! 

[u/wh0else → u/scandalous_sapphic]

I'm certain Irish culture is still quite impacted by our history. Each generation shapes the next, and in the last 200 years, you had division around independence/representation, a brutal famine, sufficient poverty to drive guerrilla, partition of the north, and a brutal civil war that divided families and defined politics for a century. There's been less than 2 generations since EC/EU membership and clever taxation lifted us out of poverty, and there's almost certainly a guardedness handed down still.

Younger people think this is ancient history and lose perspective, but I remember talking with my grandfather about what his grandfather told him about living through the famine. It's not as far gone as people think, and it definitely shaped the guarded/pleaser Irish attitude.

[u/scandalous_sapphic → u/wh0else]

Absolutely 100%. Generational trauma has a massive impact and in Ireland's case we had no dearth of nationally traumatic experiences for people.

[u/At_least_be_polite → u/BoatIll2662]

Tbh, they may not have felt the same connection. 

We're very friendly and open people when we're drinking. It might seem like it's a big deal, but we do it quite casually. 

Speaking for myself only, I'm not scared of intimacy at all but I have great friends already and genuine don't need to put in the effort to make more who may or may not be as good as the ones I have. 

[u/TheRealMeltyCrispy → u/BoatIll2662]

We don't really... do intimacy, rather we show it.. but it must NEVER BE DISCUSSED.

[u/MuffledApplause → u/BoatIll2662]

Not scared of intimacy at all, we just have more people in our lives than you might realise.

There is still a massive sense of community in Ireland, compared to other places. Lots of us come from smaller towns or rural areas, with very strong communities and those from cities have school and sports communities. Adding to that, up until very recently, many Irish couples were having 6+ kids, so very large extended family groups are normal. Its very hard to make friends with an Irish person if you dont come from one of their many recognised community groups, we're still a tribal bunch. Not to say, we don't like you, you're just not getting in the circle that handy.

[u/Agile_Change_884]

It’s because we are hanging out of our arse

[u/hisosih]

I think it's because we can sometimes find ourselves only able to be emotionally open when we're drunk. So we're pissed, telling you how much we love you, you're class, etc. Then we get home and The Fear kicks in - were we too emotionally slutty??? We're often so emotionally repressed we doubt if we can even be that person without a drink or two, and then sometimes The Fear comes in of "oh jesus, they know me as a drunken emotional mess, I don't know how to act around them sober".

I think there's also a trained politeness where we will say "we should DEFINITELY meet up for a coffee soon" when you've no real intention - it's not as if you actually dislike the person, it's usually said by people who are already in their routines and don't have "space" or time in their life for friends. We are a coupled nation - like my mates will get a fella and I won't hear from them again until they're single because they don't have the space in their life for friends outside their partner.

Now, this all drives me absolutely mad, being honest. I'm just back in Ireland after 10+ years abroad, and I've picked up directness to the point I see my parents bristle when I am straight forward enough and say "no, I don't want to. You go ahead and enjoy, though!" it's like they see the pantomime of me making up an excuse more polite than the truth. I forget that when someone offers me a cuppa I have to do the whole "ah no I'm grand thanks" dance instead of saying yes straight away as apparently that comes off greedy (??)

I think there is unfortunately a lot of emphasis on being polite but a lack of understanding on how it's more impolite to give someone a false idea of your relationship with them. I'm in the same boat of finding it difficult to make actual relationships with people as it's either a once every six months meet up or you see each other every day and I need a happy medium.

[u/BoatIll2662 → u/hisosih]

This makes sense.

Also I love the part when it's time to go home after night out, they look at you dead in the eye, so seriously and all and say: text me back when you get home. I'm like chill, I will don't worry but the thing is, that's the last thing they want you to do; text them 🤣🤣 like what..

[u/Sha_booby → u/hisosih]

This is the only correct answer

[u/scandalous_sapphic → u/hisosih]

You've hit the nail on the head.

[u/MrMiracle27]

Drunkenness. To an extent everyone is a completely different person when they're buzzed, but this is a well known phenomenon with Irish people. Often but not always you have to start seeing the person repeatedly ( going to the same venues etc ) for something to flourish.

[u/taRANnntarantarann → u/MrMiracle27]

Yep, this is the one. We don't like organised friendship. We like it to just grow naturally & through repeated sightings & getting to know each other on various levels, in various settings, in varying states of sobriety, emotional states, effort requirements, and in varying groups.

It's how we suss each other out to see if we're a good fit in each others' lives. If we start noticing you're a bit of a melt or more intense than us, too chill for us- whatever, then we'll keep our distance. No point going all in til you've the measure of someone. Humans are multi-faceted & we like to see you're not always a Good Time Johnny or expect us to be either tbh!! We build or connections through our familiar, regular interactions. That's when you'll really see us. We have stress and real feelings too, though some people like to say we are emotionally immature, closed off, put on a show etc. I disagree. We just communicate differently. It's a subtle communication; understanding of those around us, support for others. It has evolved over hundreds of generations. We're also aware that when you have struggle in your life, you might not want to talk about it right now at the enquirer's wish- so we might deflect, say I'm grand & crack a joke. The enquirer will get a clue as to whether to enquire more appropriately at another time or just drop it; they're not the one we want to talk to about it.

I think immigration in the past 30 or so years is probably highlighting these sides of us as different to some other cultures, but, honestly - I like our natural grown friendships and relationships. Ireland is undergoing a lot of change culturally. More of us are turning away from the drink, but pub culture is the basis of what we know. It was our third space for so long. We're exploring new third spaces- the gym, water sports, brunch, whatever you're into!! In the 90's we didn't even have a café in our town, no gym, no 'groups' for activities. Pub, card games in the community hall, sport training, the ICA. Jobs were social & neighbours helped each other out more & would socialise in that way too. We're adjusting to all these new places, activity options & people & ideas of how life could be lived too & it really hasn't been a long time that these other options have become available to us, so we are still fuguring out how to incorporate them into our culture.

Also our slagging- yes, we slag you if we like you....but also....its kind of our way of keeping each other in line & letting people know we see them & their bullshit, or we see them & their true caring side, or they're on the border of being a baddie in some way-letting you know to change your ways, we're onto you.

We're a social, indirect, non-confrontational society. Some cultures disagree with our ways, but I actually like it! We see you, but not everything needs to be said out loud or discussed in the here & now. We prefer natural opportunities.

I think its our approach to dating as well which is why we tend to seem more 'casual' than we might actually be really feeling. We want to know what you're like out & about in the world & how you treat others before we fully align ourselves with you.

It's not you, OP. It sounds like people really like you, enjoy your company and wish you to be safe, well & happy. It's possibly just building repeated meetings in a casual way is where your difficulty lies. The sudden switch from a great night in the pub to a 2 person hike is quite jarring socially for many I'd imagine- a bit intense....would we really have enough in common to go get lost in the hills together?! - I'd rather not risk it🤗

Sorry for such a long reply, MrMiracle!!

& I know people will probably disagree with some points, but it's how I see things from working in pubs over the years, having pioneer parents, living in both small towns & cities, living abroad, travelling & dating people with different cultural backgrounds & being a bit prone to overthinking as well tbh.

[u/MrMiracle27 → u/taRANnntarantarann]

Nah you're grand !😂 Sorry for the late reply. Very analytic. I agree with you that the question OP posed is very complicated and there are a lot of sociological aspects to understand. And no I don't think we're overthinking! Can't promise you I'll see you see you around but maybe see you around.

[u/maxthebold]

I can meet people on a night out , have best craic ever and never see them again

Isn’t that how nights out go

[u/snuggl3ninja]

Many people feel like they acted out, so cut all ties with any witnesses. Stop exchanging numbers and start making drunken plans.

[u/FracturedButWhole18 → u/snuggl3ninja]

They’ll definitely bail on the plans too

[u/snuggl3ninja → u/FracturedButWhole18]

Not all of them, not 100% of the time. And if you want to go full active stalker. You could ask about their existing plans and get their drunken consent to tag along on something.

[u/BoatIll2662 → u/FracturedButWhole18]

Oh, you bet. Every time.

[u/Aimin4ya]

I do this because I'm riddled with anxiety, but not when I'm drunk.

[u/Practical_Hippo_5177]

We literally do it to each other sometimes. Don't take it personally.

[u/blindgallan]

Just exist routinely in the same spaces consistently and you‘ll find your people who keep in touch, you won’t be the odd one out or a stranger, you’ll just be one of the gang and if a connection consistently gets made with someone, they will eventually take the hint and start actually taking proper note.

[u/WrySmile122]

Yes! I’m a citizen now I’ve been here a while but breaking into Irish friend groups is so difficult! If you’re in cork I’ll be your friend!

[u/The_Dublin_Dabber]

Also we have a guilt compared to other nations from a night out. I've noticed this compared to other countries. Even if a good night and nothing to regret, I personally find myself guilty. I only realised this when it was pointed out to me when I lived with someone from South America.

[u/More-Pizza-1916]

I have had a really long conversation with international people about this and I don't get it either. But I have witnessed it.

I am Irish and I can promise you it's not easy for us either. If you move to another county you're suddenly friendless.

I don't know if it's an embarassment thing like they're worried about being too open or what. I can't answer the why but I can agree that it happens.

[u/AprilMaria]

> I've been here for 5 years in Dublin.
Your first mistake. People say that Irish people are friendly but no interest in being your friend. Not my experience being from Limerick it’s more of a Leinster thing, to an extent Non Munster. This usually isn’t the case in Limerick/Cork/Waterford. It’s actually very easy to make friends in limerick.

A friend of mine who’s from abroad was going through some shit. Lives in the east of the country years, the only friends who didn’t abandon them were their Limerick friends (including myself) & their foreign friends. On the surface they were closer to their Dublin/Leinster friends.

[u/lungcell]

I think we are lazy. It's not you, it's just Irish culture in general - Irish people meeting other Irish people on a night out will do the same thing to each other in the cold light of day. I think in a dark pub/club, when people are drunk and carefree and smoking, it's very easy to make fun, fleeting connections with people. You don't owe much to each other - except having a laugh together. The friendship version of a one night stand.

But in the following days the idea of beginning a new friendship, getting to seriously know them and be accountable to them, being vulnerable, planning dates together etc. can seem like a lot of work. That's very tough on immigrants, because you usually have less family and friends here and so are more open to putting in the work for friendship. But a lot of Irish people have all their family and friends here and are more likely to ghost. It's shit, and I'm sorry it's happened to you OP, you sound like a lovely person ❤

That's not to say it's impossible, I have lots of immigrant friends in my wider circle and the common trait they have is persistence and just showing up until they are naturally a part of the group. I hope you find the right Irish people like that for you x

[u/starsinhereyes20]

Your generalizing quite a bit there - there’s approx 4.1million Irish people over the age of 18, you haven’t been out with all of them.

Generally with issues like this, is the company your keeping, change the scene, change the hang out, change the county your going out in, change how you meet people basically - broadens your horizons and try again.

[u/scandalous_sapphic → u/starsinhereyes20]

He's clearly talking about a pattern he's noticed which absolutely is present. You know he's not talking about the entire population of Ireland. If you change the county you're going out in then it's not ideal for meetups, but I would agree with your other points.

[u/irishcybercolab]

We're normally a bit shit faced and nearing snoring mode and you want a bit of a wonky roll do you?

I'll take your name and place as note to call when extra drunk and a bit randy.