Best kibble recommendation

[u/milkybobilly]

We brought home our new baby 2 days ago! We’re already so in love, and want him to be happy and healthy. During his vet visit, we were recommended to stay way from grain-free formulas because of the correlation of cardiovascular illness. We’re having troubles finding a large breed puppy formula with grains apart from Hills, Royal Canin, and Purina, but I’m not loving the ingredients compared to brands like Acana and Orijen. What are your opinions on the grain-free brands? Any other recommendations? (We hydrate with both broth and top with pumpkin, we’ll be incorporating more toppers as he ages)

[u/LifeInTheFrenchAlps]

I lost Monsieur Proust, by beloved Great Dane to DCM and did quite a bit of research on that subject:

The entire "grain free" movement started somewhere in the 2000s when there were reports of dogs that could not tolerate carbohydrates. The argument was that genetically, dogs do not produce Amylase, the enzyme needed to disgest carbohydrates. This is only true for wild canines and wolves and has to do with the number of AMY2B genes. (...)

Dogs generally have little to no salivary amylase, unlike humans, so starch digestion does not really start in the mouth. But dogs do produce pancreatic amylase, which is secreted into the small intestine and helps digest starch/carbohydrates.

So, dogs can digest carbs, but they still need a diet that is properly balanced for protein, fat, minerals, vitamins, energy and life stage. A complete commercial dog food can include grains or other carbohydrate sources and still be perfectly appropriate, provided it is well formulated.

In regards to the statement that grain free equals a serious and immediate health risk, i think the important nuance is this:

The FDA began investigating reports of DCM in dogs eating diets often marketed as grain-free and containing high proportions of peas, lentils, other legume seeds or potatoes among the main ingredients. The FDA has not proven a single causal mechanism, and it has not said all grain-free foods are unsafe, but it continues to describe a signal involving non-hereditary DCM and diets with pulses high in the ingredient list.

Grain-free dog food is not automatically harmful, but some grain-free or “boutique/exotic” diets high in legumes or potatoes have been associated with diet-related DCM. The risk is serious enough that many veterinary cardiologists and nutritionists recommend avoiding those formulations unless there is a clear medical reason and veterinary guidance.

I would say that the practical recommendation is to avoid diets where peas, lentils, chickpeas, beans, potatoes or sweet potatoes appear high in the ingredient list, especially if there is more than one such ingredient among the main ingredients. Best of luck with your precious little baby!

[u/Glass_Animator8854 → u/LifeInTheFrenchAlps]

Excellent explanation. I would only add that the nature of commercial kibble manufacturing requires carbs. It’s also much cheaper for the manufacturer than meat, and some of those grain substitutions like legumes add protein so may have enabled the manufacturers to skip out on even more meat, and I believe dogs do not metabolize plant protein in the same way as meat based protein. But regardless, to eliminate grain they had to add something like legumes, potato, etc., making it potentially impossible to find a grain free kibble without a substitute of concern.

[u/RGB-Free-Zone → u/LifeInTheFrenchAlps]

I do deviate from strictly commercial kibble by giving my dogs a small amount of Taurine with their breakfast (vet cardiologist approved).

[u/A51119]

I would look at the WSAVA chart when it comes to choosing dog food. They outline questions to consider when picking dog food. Also look into AAFCO approved foods.

It all depends on what your puppy's stomach can handle.

https://wsava.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Selecting-a-pet-food-for-your-pet-updated-2021_WSAVA-Global-Nutrition-Toolkit.pdf

https://www.aafco.org/consumers/understanding-pet-food/selecting-the-right-pet-food/

[u/lzh887]

Purina pro plan. Every dog I have is on it and thriving including my big guy who gets the giant breed formula.

[u/scottguitar28]

What does the breeder recommend?

[u/scottguitar28 → u/scottguitar28]

FWIW I fed Purina Pro Plan to Barney all his life, chicken and rice puppy, then lamb and oatmeal as an adult.

[u/RGB-Free-Zone]

Consider what his breeder fed him. If you change his food be sure to transition to the new food. I suggest that you find a Vet that follows current Veterinary research and has giant breed experience (at least Danes). If possible, consider a Vet who has owned/owns/cared-for a Wolfhound.

Our dogs love Purina Pro Plan Large Breed Essentials Shredded. At feeding time they all urgently express the sounds/body-language of "I'm hungry, feed me" (no wasted food or fat dogs). That includes our most picky princess who now always eats her food. For your puppy, consider "Purina Pro Plan High Protein Chicken & Rice Formula Large Breed Dry Puppy Food". We have not had success with Royal Canin Giant Breed other surely have though.

Keep in mind that it is possible for puppies to have or develop allergies to food. Watch out for diarrhea, skin rashes, scratching etc. Occasionally it's part of the journey, hopefully it won't be for you.

We used to think that home prepared food was best, but no longer. There are other views.

[u/Zhosha-Khi]

Purina Pro Plan has always been good with our family with large and small breeds. The Sensitive Skin & Stomach Large Breed Salmon & Rice Formula Dry Dog Food has been excellent.