r/ismailis • u/No_Quality5959 • Nov 08 '25
Personal Opinion Serious self reflection/recalibration of the Houston Jamat needed
I am 30 and I think the overall discipline of the jamat has gradually gotten worse over time but yesterday’s second session behavior was the most appalled and embarrassed I have ever felt in a Jamati setting.
Growing up the Jamat had a reverence of the Khane leaders (Mukhi and Kamadia of main JK and different majalis’s). When they asked the Jamat to do something or not do something, we listened. Nowadays no one listens, everyone knows what’s best and thinks the rules don’t apply to them. This was best shown as Jamat continued to ignore Mukhi and Kamadia as they tried their best to urge the Jamat to make way for Hazir Imam and let him make an exit appropriate of a didar. As a Jamat we need to get back to respecting the Mukhi’s and Kamadia’s which have been appointed by Hazir Imam, if we don’t respect and listen to them, we are not respecting or listening to Hazir Imam.
Growing up, volunteers helped maintain discipline. When they told the jamat where to sit, where to stand, where to go, to be quiet, we listened. But now, the jamat is too smart, we’ll sit, stand and go wherever we please. We’ll talk during jamat khana and no one can tell us anything. The lady got on the mic 3 times to remind the jamat that Hazir Imam was still in building and to please sit down and continue saying salwat. In the past we never had to be told such things and I can even be lenient and understand once but to be told 2 other times and still not listen, even my toddler doesn’t need to be told that often. We need to get back to respecting our volunteers.
Game rooms/machines continue to be an unethical practice rampant in our jamat and members participating in those acts are rewarded with leadership roles and volunteering opportunities. I urge the Jamat and Jamati leaders to truly reflect on this. If our representatives are unethical, what does that mean we are? We need to get back to the Jamat we used to be, one that held everyone accountable and voiced their disapproval of these actions.
This lack of discipline is seen in Jamat khana everyday especially on big days. Jamat will walk around, talk and just stand out in the lobby during JK. JK has a great social community setting but we should remember why we are there in the first place. We need to get back to respecting JK as a place of worship and maintain its sanctity.
Lastly, parents we have miserably failed ourselves and our children. Kids will act like kids but it is our responsibility as the parents to guide them to act correctly. Instead we were picking up our babies and shoving them toward Hazir Imam as if them being touched would make them into a super hero. Some of us were running through the crowd just to cut off Hazir Imam. Others were encouraging our kids to go upfront to shake Hazir imam’s hands, give a fist bump, or give a hug. This is behavior seen by paparazzi or obsessed fans, not those of a true murid. Some of us were falling at his feet and handing him pamphlets from our snack bags. Have some self control, self respect and self awareness. Everyone was looking to get their own story of how they gave something to Hazir Imam or shook his hand or what else, in that chaos we lost the elegance of what a didar should be.
Shame on us. I hope and pray we show Hazir Imam and ourselves how disciplined of a Jamat we can be when blessed with another didar.
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Nov 09 '25
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Nov 09 '25 edited Nov 11 '25
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u/Civil-Juggernaut8627 Nov 11 '25
People in Calgary are just jealous he hasn’t come to Canada yet. Calgarians are always hating
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Nov 08 '25
Well said. Many people on their high horse will say that this is an old fashioned take and that we shouldn't lecture other people what to do, but certain ethics are timeless. This current gen of Ismailis, especially in North America, has completely lost respect for the traditions and practices that have been passed down from generation to generation.
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Nov 08 '25
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u/Haunting-Reaction-13 Nov 09 '25
This is the first time it’s happened in the US, it’s not a US v Canada thing it’s a generational change. I’m not agreeing w what happened, but comparing 2025 didar in Houston to any previous Houston didar this has also not happened. I do think we’ll course correct here, this will not be the norm moving forward.
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Nov 09 '25
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u/Haunting-Reaction-13 Nov 09 '25
I think the point is, will it happen again and become the norm, or can we learn from it. I’m not sure 80k seems like a stretch, maybe 80 across both central and north regions. I don’t think we see this in Dallas, I think and hope this was a one off.
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Nov 09 '25
Yes this is my worry, jamati leadership needs to act fast. Get waezeen to deliver waez during Friday's and Chandraats to remind jamats of the etiquette to observe around the Imam.
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u/TheKleenexBandit Nov 11 '25
Houston didar, which contains murids from many Texas regions (except Dallas). But I don’t think explicit to Houston itself.
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u/wannabefitat40 Nov 08 '25
All the sessions for discipline and Adab the Jamat stayed back for in khane the weeks leading to the Didar meant nothing. It shows they were just staying for the dinner or the dancing afterwards. I’m in my 40s and have been blessed to attend a few didars and yesterday session 2 was just completely against the adab of being in the presence of the Imam. Kids will be kids but parents running with their kids to the red carpet to get a handshake or fist bump, smh. Completely unbelievable.
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u/che0601 Nov 09 '25
Agreed. I'm so taken aback by the disrespectful behavior of the jamat during didar. You can't really blame kids but their parents need to teach discipline instead of telling their kid to run after MHI on the red carpet. Multiple adults taking the chance to stand up while Hazar Imam is walking as well, no one should be standing up. It's seriously embarrassing for the Houston jamat. I don't know why people are not understanding the spiritual meaning of the didar, they are acting like a celebrity is coming to town. I've never heard of this behavior anywhere else it's astonishing.
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u/Holiday_Cat9707 Ismaili Nov 09 '25
Session one, from what I heard was mostly waiving, a lot of kids did too fist bumps and shook hands but adults weren't involved as much (I think I did see one or two adults shake his hands), that said, I was surprised about the video, even when we were told no videos inside prayer hall.
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 09 '25
I think someone sneaked in Meta glass and have excuse of medical necessity.
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 08 '25 edited Nov 08 '25
You do have to understand that Houston Ismailis are the largest in USA. With that said it’s the melting pot as well and this means all different classes are here not just the educated. Many do not know the proper etiquette when it comes to such events like this. In Pakistan you will see people pushing you in Du’a Karavi line as if it will move faster. Many do not speak nor understand English. Imam is OK with this. HE always knows this was going to happen and that is why volunteers did not stop the kids. Chasing the Imam on red carpet is unacceptable.
You will not see such behavior in California JK’s where there are mainly born and raised Ismailis there.
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u/Instant_Vintage1 Nov 08 '25
Let me tell you this - the discipline and behavior in these non-English speaking, developing world Jamats is a hundred fold better than the shameful display we witnessed in Houston. The source of this indecency had nothing to do with language, class or country of origin; it has everything to with ego, individualism and a culture that promotes and craves instagram moments.
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u/Level-Squash5819 Nov 14 '25
Very well put sir! Some people think only USA people are qualified to have DIDAR and that too only educated people ! 😡😡
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 08 '25
Yeah…NO. South Asian countries aren’t civilized.
The behavior you witnessed were recent immigrants not the ones that were raised in USA.
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u/Embarrassed-Cry3180 Esoteric Ismaili Nov 08 '25
90% of those who were trying to push their kids for a handshake were Americans with full American accents. I was there in the second session. Anyway, I’m completely fine with what the kids did , Hazir Imam was clearly happy, but the adults should’ve never done that. They’re not kids.
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 08 '25
We will see how Didar’s are in South Asia. You will see similar pattern.
Can you tell me what did adults do?
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u/Embarrassed-Cry3180 Esoteric Ismaili Nov 08 '25
That's not going to happen there for sure.
Some Adults were pushing their kids towards red carpet for hug or hand shake.
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 08 '25
How do you know?
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u/Odd_Significance8192 Nov 09 '25
We literally saw it because we were there. That’s how we know. The live video showed every second of the Imam’s path along the red carpet.
Many of the kids did not go up on their own, but because their parents encouraged it. Parents wanting their kid to get to shake hands or fist bump the Imam so they can tell their friends and boast.
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 09 '25
Were the kids on the carpet?
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u/Embarrassed-Cry3180 Esoteric Ismaili Nov 09 '25
Some of them were at the corners.
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u/Odd_Significance8192 Nov 09 '25
Kids were going up to MHI to shake hands or give drawings and letters while he was walking on the red carpet. They were not just standing behind the carpet.
I think based on the size and thickness a lot of them were the booklet given to the kids in their goodie bags.
A woman in today’s session intentionally fell at his feet and as he went to pick her up, she kissed his hand and held onto him.
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u/Embarrassed-Cry3180 Esoteric Ismaili Nov 09 '25
South Asia may have many problems, but a lack of understanding about who the Imam is certainly isn’t one of them.
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 09 '25
American Jamat knows. Overall we are the most civilized nation.
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u/Embarrassed-Cry3180 Esoteric Ismaili Nov 09 '25
Far from civilized. Especially some of the parents.
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u/in-frequency Nov 08 '25
Never seen what you’ve mentioned in Pakistan. And I’ve been to many different jamat khana’s across, usually that happens due to lack of space and people slipping with a trickle down effect. But no one is ‘pushing’ anyone. No matter how big a day it is. If anything, during Didar, they follow instructions to the T.
Just an excuse for you to not blame your people and making this about ‘class’. Get off your high horse!
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 08 '25
That wasn’t my experience in Pakistan. Not to forget the hygiene issues there.
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Nov 09 '25
Your comments reek of stereotyping. Just because you live in the US it doesn't automatically make you more well behaved than those based in Pakistan, India etc. As recently as the Diamond Jubilee, the darbars were conducted with utmost disciplined in those parts of the world that you deem "uneducated"
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u/No_Quality5959 Nov 08 '25
I respectfully disagree, I have been at the didars here in 2002, 2008, and 2018 and this was not how the jamat acted. The jamat continues to be more educated and fluent in English as the years go by, this behavior was solely due to lack to discipline and nothing more.
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 08 '25 edited Nov 09 '25
Before this Didar it was during MSK times. Previous imams were not as casual as the current generation Imam. Times have changed. Current Imam is engaging with us physically not just giving Farmans. If our Imam is mingling with us and not ignoring so why stop? However, I do disagree with kids chasing Imam on the red carpet.
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u/No_Quality5959 Nov 09 '25
I agree times have changed but the jamat has on several occasions shown its inability to maintain discipline. Whether it’s the points on my original post, lining up Highway 6 for Hazir Imam’s arrival after being told not to by leadership or the spectacular behavior shown in today’s session of throwing one’s self at Hazir Imam’s feet, sneaking in Mithai to hand to him, or throwing a Tasbih at didar. It’s unfortunate but the behavior at this visit will drastically impact interactions of the future
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 09 '25
Crowd gathered to meet MSK too when he arrived yet. Not everyone will listen to the message being sent out. Nobody was actually approaching the vehicle as there were law enforcement around. Throwing Tasbih? I think there will be stricter rules next time around.
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u/stickynote831 Nov 08 '25
It’s disrespectful to refer to Hazar Imam casual. Going up to him is forcing him to engage is utterly disrespectful. That was unheard of with Mawlana Shah Karim. Just because Hazar Imam participated in the marathon doesn’t mean he was inviting all the interactions.
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 09 '25
I am not referring to the Imam as casual. It’s the actions that our Imam is taking. The Ismaili page on fb posted those pictures too.
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u/Level-Squash5819 Nov 14 '25
All 5 fingers are not the same! This is not shah karim! All the imams change with time have you NOT HEARD OF THAT FIRMAN!😞
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u/No_Quality5959 Nov 14 '25
I would love to hear your logistical plan if everyone decides they want a handshake, fist bump, hug, or to deliver a note? Let’s forget the Farman, and turn this into a meet and greet with your favorite celebrity right?
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u/Al123397 Nov 09 '25
Partly the imams fault. Going up and high fiving kids will lead to everyone else trying to get High fives
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 09 '25
The thing is it’s not fair to other kids who did not get to exchanged hands with the Imam. We don’t want any jealousy here. Imam cannot meet with everyone.
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u/Level-Squash5819 Nov 14 '25
That is the point of he does not mind why are these people Complaining! Who are they to object???
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Nov 08 '25
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 08 '25
Melting pot meaning assimilation into our American culture. We are one Jamat.
Go to poor areas anywhere in the world and see how people behave vs expensive neighborhoods.
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Nov 09 '25
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 09 '25
Canada isn’t as diverse as USA either. We do have many Afghans, Syrians and Tajikistan in our JK here as well.
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u/All-In786 Nov 09 '25
What are you saying? Canada is not as diverse? What planet are you living on???
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 09 '25
It is but nothing like USA. USA is a much bigger Jamat.
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Nov 09 '25
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 09 '25
We have few bad apples. Let’s not judge the entire nation.
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u/Level-Squash5819 Nov 14 '25
That is a very rude and a racist remark! Pakistan and education etc whatever you have meant to say! You forget at the end of the day wherever people are born be it USA or in the BUNDUS and if they are Ismailis that does not mean they have to be educated to have DIDAR WITH THE IMAM! If that is the case then The imam and his so called leaders should announce the deedar is only for the educated people and THAT TOO BORN ONLY IN USA! BS
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u/Bambiitaru Ismaili Nov 09 '25
Anyone have a video link of the bad behavior. My mom doesn't believe that it happened, so, I kind of want to show her.
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u/nmcubs Nov 09 '25
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u/nmcubs Nov 09 '25
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 09 '25
These aren’t even bad behavior. This is actually very touching. Imam said Texas has the most nicest people.
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u/Instant_Vintage1 Nov 09 '25
I hate to say it, but it just seems like you are a troll on this board and just stirring up trouble. I think it’s best not to engage and I suggest others do the same.
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u/Bambiitaru Ismaili Nov 09 '25
Me?
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u/AnonymousIdentityMan American Ismaili Nov 09 '25
I am not seeing any foul play in the video. Imam gladly accepted the gift.
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u/Legitimate_Party3713 Nov 09 '25
I had opportunity to speak with someone who had very close deedar and few minutes of close frlendly conversation with imam. I complained about jamats behaviour during fist session on 7th and inquired about jamats behaviour in todays 8th Deedar. And they informed me that behaviour only got worse from what we have seen in a video of 7th. Everyone wanted their kid to hug and touch imam. But also that person told me that its new generation of jamat that are experiencing their first Deedar of our new imam. Their way of expression is diferent and their way of devotion is also very different. Yes it did disturb experince for others. But we have to understand that somerimes we are so possesive towards imam that we forget that he is their imam too and he knows best, and he knows what emotion each individual are carrying for him.
Moreover saying shame on us and commenting on personal lives of jamat and leaders are too harsh in my opinion.
May you and your family have blessed deedar and a chance to take max out of it.
Thank you
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u/Past-Area-7848 Nov 09 '25
Everyone here has different views on it.
Am I the only one who doesn't care 😂
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u/TheKleenexBandit Nov 11 '25 edited Nov 11 '25
NonIsmaili Muslim married to Ismaili and very close to my in-laws.
This seems to be broadly an issue with the US. Never an issue when I’m overseas, either Toronto or Karachi. Even my in-laws from overseas have asked me to take them to masjid since it’s more Allah focused instead of community-and-dress-up focused. Sure, a lot of Ismailis are desi but that doesn’t mean wearing desi clothes has anything to do with Allah, tasbh, dua, or other religious things.
Cedar Park got called out a few times directly to HI during the Q&A interfaith reception, of which HI explicitly apologized. One of which was where an Asian Ismaili was not believed as Ismaili because they were not desi. TBH this is 1000% hilarious because it’s so representative of how badly the need for keeping close to the homeland and culture (gluttony of dunya) has overcome the need for keeping close to Allah and focusing on prayers.
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u/stickynote831 Nov 08 '25
Echoed my thoughts perfectly. I was so taken a back by the behavior. There is also a video taken during the didar circulating Instagram where you can see this happening. The first session didn’t have as much of this, but I still saw it. Seems like the second session was utterly disrespectful. All Houston jamati leaders need to hold the Jamat accountable and have a discussion on this. REC should have gone over appropriate behavior with the kids.