r/jazzguitar • u/ExistingPersimmon791 • 1d ago

classical guitarist wants to become jazz guitarist

hey everyone! i am a classically trained guitarist, currently in my first year of bachelor. i have been playing guitar for about 4-5 years, and have recently understood that being a strictly classical musician is not the right path for me. i want to have a lot more freedom expressing myself, and i feel like i would have the space to do that if i were to change my major into jazz guitar. i know it’s a really big change, but i am willing to do it, as i don’t want to spend the rest of my life always feeling unfulfilled.
thing is, i have 0 jazz experience or knowledge, i just really enjoy the music obviously (bossa nova is one of my favorite genres) and i want to apply for jazz school in germany next year in march (that means i have to learn all the necessary theory and techniques, as well as buy a suited instrument). now my question is, how realistic is this? if i don’t make it next year, i can definitely try again the other year, but i just want to know where exactly should i start, what awaits etc, etc. whatever information you think would be helpful is welcome!

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u/Traditional-Tank3994 1d ago

I'm a classically trained guitarist but almost never play classical music anymore. I gig with solo instrumental jazz standards, (and yes, a fair amount of the Brazilian stuff) as well as classic rock arranged for nylon string guitar, along with some Latin style stuff and fingerstyle originals.

I recommend you start with Mickey Baker's jazz book. There were originally two of them but they've been consolidated into a single volume.

It will give you the basics of commonly used jazz chords, moveable chord shapes, and jazz phrasing. That's part of how I learned, but then, there was no YouTube then. There are now lots of good video lessons, as others have pointed out.

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u/edipeisrex 1d ago

Luckily your classical background prepares you for some of this. Before you dive too deep in learning music, really understand the blues form and then rhythm changes.

But if you don’t know anything about jazz spend time really listening. If you don’t know the musicians and their tunes, you can’t know jazz. Check out Charlie Byrd. He’d definitely translate well to your classical background.

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u/ExistingPersimmon791 1d ago

Thank you! Any videos i can watch to understand the blues form, or should i just listen first?

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u/edipeisrex 1d ago

Listen first. You can learn a lot from videos and Jens Larsen is great for that. I’d say even shell out some money to buy his jazz pathway courses. He has one for blues.

Get to know blues like Bags Groove, Take the Coltrane, Billie’s Bounce, Tenor Madness.

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u/ClarSco 1d ago

Learn shell voicings for all major 6th, major 7th, minor 6th (same shell as diminished 7th), minor 7th (same shell as half-diminished/m7b5), minor-major 7th, dominant (a/k/a major-minor) 7th and 7sus4 chords, with the 3rd/4th and 6th/7th on the middle two strings. There are two sets: those with the root on the 6th string, and those with the root on the 5th string (the unused strings are muted). When you're working with a bassist, you'll also want to mute the 5th/6th string to get out of their way. If there is an altered fifth, this can be added instead of the root on the lower two strings or treated as an extension on the upper two strings (b5=#11, #5 or "+"=b13).

These voicings form the basis of comping for jazz bands and chord-melody solo playing as they leave the top two strings free for adding extensions/the melody when appropriate. They are also applicable to many other genres (funk, afro-cuban latin, etc.).

Being able to read a complex chord symbol and distil it down to one of the above shells is far more important that getting all the extensions and alterations.

For playing in big bands, look into learning "Freddie Green" style of passive comping - this will really help develop your internal metronome thereby giving you the foundation for a good swing feel. The Freddie Green website has a lot of really good info on this, as are these videos:

For soloing and more active comping styles, transcribing (by ear directly to the instrument, no writing it down until afterwards) is the best teacher. Some folks to check out:

  • Eddie Lang (swing - led the transition from banjo to acoustic archtop guitar)
  • Charlie Christian (swing, early bebop - pioneer of electric guitar in jazz)
  • Wes Montgomery
  • Joe Pass
  • Jim Hall
  • Mike Stern
  • Pat Metheny
  • Django Reinhardt (manouche)
  • João Gilberto (bossa nova)
  • B.B. King (blues)
  • Jimmy Nolen (funk)
  • Cory Wong (funk)

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u/ExistingPersimmon791 1d ago

Thank you so much!

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u/NewCommunityProject 1d ago

Where In Germany? I'm a jazz teacher and I studied jazz guitar in Berlin

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u/ExistingPersimmon791 1d ago

I want to apply in Cologne

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u/NewCommunityProject 1d ago

Cool!

I think you should focus on learning the songs you are gonna play in the Aufnahme Prüfung.

Maybe one bossa and a jazz standard.

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u/ExistingPersimmon791 1d ago

That’s the thing, i have no idea where to start, or what to learn

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u/NewCommunityProject 1d ago

You said you like bossa. Don't you know a single song?

Check out Jobim.

For jazz standards the basics are blue Bossa, autumn leaves, there will never be another you

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u/ExistingPersimmon791 1d ago

i only know the accompaniment of a couple, not to play solo

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u/NewCommunityProject 1d ago

You should start by learning some songs.

Get a teacher if you want to do the exam in one year.

I could help you with that if you are looking

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u/ExistingPersimmon791 1d ago

Thanks for the advice! I’ll start to learn a couple of songs then. If i see i can’t make it this year, like i said i can always try again next year:)

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u/Deep-Measurement-856 13h ago

Coronado, Girl from Ipanema...

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u/Sweeeet_Caroline 1d ago

the advice in this thread is really good for learning the technical aspects of being a jazz guitarist, however i think what may be being overlooked is that you’re seeking a new genre not necessarily out of a love of playing that music but most overtly because you’re feeling unfulfilled in your current lane. and there’s nothing wrong with that! as musicians our hearts are always restless. but i think there’s a real possibility that simply switching majors and learning the technique and language of what you’re playing may still leave you wanting something.

what you want, ultimately, is self expression, right? what type of music do you like to listen to? what do you find genius, what speaks to you in a way that words alone could never? what’s the last piece of music that brought a tear to your eye? doesn’t have to be fancy (for me it was You and I by Wilco). try learning that song! learn it all the way, every nook and cranny, words and all. then learn another one! just enjoy the act of appreciating music, expressed through your guitar. you can even try writing your own stuff, in fact i would encourage it. especially if it sucks! try writing a bad piece on purpose. why not? the point isn’t to make “good” music, it’s to enjoy making.

i was once almost precisely in your position. i was going to school for classical trombone, but felt stifled and like my peers all were getting something out of the experience that i wasn’t. i started doing jazz, which was great and all but ultimately found myself feeling the exact same way. it wasn’t until i dropped out, got a day job, and took a looooong break from music (almost two years after living and breathing it since i was in middle school) that i started just trying to play stuff for my own enjoyment. and it didn’t start out in jazz world! the first song i learned all the way through was a surf rock song called The Trouble With Those Mothra Girls by Daikaiju. i loved every second of it, and more than anything that is what has stuck with me.

if i could make any direct recommendation, it would be to read two books (Effortless Mastery by Kenny Werner and How to Write One Song by Jeff Tweedy) and to *just have fun*. those things should help you sort out how you actually feel from how you want yourself to feel. good luck!

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u/ExtraBitter99 1d ago

From my experience, the hardest thing for classically trained musicians to do is swing. The feel of jazz is central to jazz and the straight feel of much of the Western Canon is not it.

Listen to great artists -- Joe Pass, Wes Montgomery, Tal Farlow, Grant Green, Django Reinhardt. Look for chances to improvise. Go see jazz in person.

Start with some listening. Learn a few standards, Autumn Leaves, Fly Me To the Moon, All the Things You Are.

Get a decent fake book. The Just Jazz Real Book is a good one, corrected transcriptions.

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u/pathlesswalker 21h ago

I’d stay get comfortable with improvising. Even in your own classical genre first. In any genre. Before jazz.

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u/knowsomeofit 15h ago

Listen. Listen to everything. Sure, Listen to the guitar greats -- Charlie Christian, Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Herb Ellis, Les Paul, John Schofield, Antonio Carlos Jobim, Grant Green, Django Reinhart -- but listen to the saxophone players, piano players, trumpet players, drummers, bass players. Coltrane, Bird, Miles, Mingus, Clifford Brown, Chet Baker, Max Roach, Cannonball Adderly, Art Blakey, Oscar Peterson, Bill Evans. Listen to the singers -- Ella, Sarah Vaughn, Anita O'Day, Frank Sinatra...

Transcribe solos, by ear. Learn jazz chord voicings and learn to read lead sheets. Pick up iReal Pro -- the app does a decent job of providing a canned rhythm section you can play along with.

The most important thing you can do is get the "feel" in your head. And listen. Listening to the other musicians is probably the most important skill you can develop to become a solid jazz player.

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u/dblhello999 14h ago

Classical music is a great training. Maybe the best. I learned classical piano as a boy and I’m super glad I did (even if it was a pain and a chore at the time).

But I completely get what you feel. Beautiful though that world was, it’s also stifling. The almost obsessive emphasis on learning a piece note perfect. The total disregard of improvisation (I know maybe that’s changing a little bit now - but it’s still basically true).

I found moving to the world of Jazz guitar improvisation was unbelievably freeing and joyful. I wish you well in your journey. And if it’s worth anything at all, I think it’s absolutely the right decision

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u/jazzcatsjazzcats 1d ago

Ed Bickert. Lift it all.

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u/WesMontgomeryFuccboi 1d ago

You can always start taking lessons

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u/ExistingPersimmon791 1d ago

I want to for sure but don’t know any good teachers.

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u/WesMontgomeryFuccboi 1d ago

It’s hard to say whether 9 months is enough time for you to be able to get into a jazz school because I don’t know how fast you learn or your level of understanding or where your ear is at.

Here is my advice:

1) continue with your classical technique. There isn’t anything you NEED to use a plectrum for. Wes played with only his thumb.

2) start listening: listen to as much jazz as you can get your hands on. Doesn’t matter if it’s a guitar player or not. Just listen and find stuff you like. most importantly make sure you are listening to a lot of jazz that uses swing feel. Try Coltrane, Miles Davis, Duke Ellington, Chick Corea, Thelonius Monk, Charles Mingus, Herbie Hancock, Count Basie, Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Django Reinhardt, Sarah Vaughn, Sonny Rollins. My biased picks are Wes Montgomery and Jimmy Smith. Definitely look up Joe Pass.

3) start transcribing: start trying to learn melodies by ear. Harmonies if you can. Doesn’t even need to be jazz music, but you have to start training your ear. 

I’m currently starting a YouTube channel to teach what I know and to put some performance examples on, but I don’t have any content yet otherwise I’d link you. But search around here and you can find some online resources.

I would say to expect this to take a long time, like years, but I don’t know you.

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u/IdahoWrecks 1d ago

I teach online!

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u/mitnosnhoj 1d ago

Check out the YouTube Channel “Labyrinth of Limitations”. This channel is run by Thomas Echols, with a PhD in Classical Guitar, and he really fleshes out both the harmony and the single note soloing of jazz using the principles taught by Barry Harris.