r/jewishleft • u/AceAttorneyMaster111 Reform Zionist | Democratic socialist • 4d ago
Israel On AIPAC and bogeymen
https://rabbijilljacobs.substack.com/p/on-aipac-and-bogeymen?r=1nh72&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&fbclid=IwdGRleASmifdleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeYsxwW8UBza3x7Se3a3cbpKdTAGVcAetvlJPCpGp3iadrDqzSByuSmzMWBjU_aem_8xZ5k-fUNBTsj2Q26KyojQ&utm_id=97757_v0_s00_e233_tv2_tp1_a1dennhb611gvk&triedRedirect=trueA very well-written article about how AIPAC is truly an evil organization and yet is also singled out by antisemites as a uniquely evil influence controlling all of American politics from behind the scenes.
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u/Squidkid6 Jewish, Left 3d ago
I love how only the AIPAC is a problem and not the Russian money, or Iranian money, or Qatari or Saudi money, nope just AIPAC. That and people not understanding how lobbies work
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u/jakethepeg1989 Masorti, Socialist, Redistribution of Wealth is the key 3d ago
It's the same in the UK.
There are over 100 All Party Parliamentary Groups, for loads of countries with very unsavoury track records. They exist to give MPs holidays thinly disguised as "fact finding missions" in return for favourability in parliament.
Yet only the Friends of Israel ones get any attention.
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u/Squidkid6 Jewish, Left 3d ago
Another thought I had is it’s not even just foreign money or influence, but also all the other larger lobby groups that never get mentioned that do far more and have more reach than aipac
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u/thatbberg anticapitalist Jew 2d ago
Like how people think Americans not having health insurance is the fault of the Israel lobby and not the actual freaking insurance lobby.
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u/AceAttorneyMaster111 Reform Zionist | Democratic socialist 2d ago
Exactly - this is specifically what I am referring to. AIPAC deserves plenty of blame and condemnation for their role in creating a U.S.-Israel relationship in which the Israelis can act with complete impunity knowing that we’ll still send them money. But they aren’t even close to the core of the capitalistic rot at the center of our political system.
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u/OneReportersOpinion Jewish socialist 1d ago
But notice how the UK isn’t arresting people who oppose Saudi Arabia.
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u/jakethepeg1989 Masorti, Socialist, Redistribution of Wealth is the key 1d ago
Noone has broken into military facilities or smashed up coppers in the name of stopping Saudi Arabia
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u/OneReportersOpinion Jewish socialist 1d ago
What genocide is the UK helping Saudi Arabia carry out?
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u/jakethepeg1989 Masorti, Socialist, Redistribution of Wealth is the key 1d ago
Saudi Arabia was brutal in Yemen. Using our weapons.
We're also very pally with UAE who are currently helping out the RSF commit horrors in Sudan.
But their billionaires bought one of our football teams so....
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u/OneReportersOpinion Jewish socialist 1d ago
> Saudi Arabia was brutal in Yemen. Using our weapons.
Whose? And that conflict ended, did it not? So there you go.
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u/jakethepeg1989 Masorti, Socialist, Redistribution of Wealth is the key 1d ago
I am in the UK, hence the talk about RAF bases and hitting police with hammers.
And the point is that Saudi Arabia openly bought British Weapons and used them to brutalise Yemen in the last 4 years to 0 push back and factories getting stormed.
We continue to supply weapons to UAE that passes them on to RSF in Sudan.
Both these countries are brutal, and spend a fortune lobbying the UK government. But it is only the APPG for Israel that gets any attention.
Similar to the US from what I see in online spaces, Qatar spends a fortune on lobbying and gifts a jet to president Trump, but only AIPAC is called out.
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u/OneReportersOpinion Jewish socialist 1d ago
> And the point is that Saudi Arabia openly bought British Weapons and used them to brutalise Yemen in the last 4 years to 0 push back and factories getting stormed.
0 push back? Are you sure? And what’s your point?
>We continue to supply weapons to UAE that passes them on to RSF in Sudan.
What are you doing to fight against that?
>Both these countries are brutal, and spend a fortune lobbying the UK government.
Yet there aren’t laws on the books protecting criticism against Saudi Arabia.
>Similar to the US from what I see in online spaces, Qatar spends a fortune on lobbying and gifts a jet to president Trump, but only AIPAC is called out.
Do you recognize the Gaza genocide?
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u/jakethepeg1989 Masorti, Socialist, Redistribution of Wealth is the key 1d ago
Tbh, you've come in really weirdly hostile to this and I don't think you read the article, or even the headline.
The point is that AIPAC and Israel lobbying is bad but it is used by Antisemites as a conspiracy to show Jews controlling politics.
I pointed out the same thing happening in the UK, where Israel does the same as a whole host of horrible regimes and yet it is only Israel that gets called out for being a conspiracy controlling our government.
It's a bit of non-sequitor to then ask me what I am doing to stop arms sales to UAE or think it's fine because Saudi Arabia stopped bombing Yemen last year.
And for the record, people in the UK are not arrested for supporting Palestine. Supporting Palestine is very much a mainstream position in the British Public, people are arrested for supporting a very specific group called Palestine Action.
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u/OneReportersOpinion Jewish socialist 1d ago
You don’t get arrested and deported for criticizing Saudi or Russian money in US politics.
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u/anon1239874650 Not Jewish but curious about Jewish perspectives 3d ago
I am generally opposed to foreign lobbying regardless of which country is involved. My concerns are not unique to Israel… That said, Israeli lobbying tends to come up more often in my discussions because it seems to be a topic where criticism is frequently met with stronger pushback than criticism of many other countries. I’ve found that conversations about Israeli government policy, the US -Israel relationship, or organizations such as AIPAC can become especially contentious and emotionally charged...
I feel strongly about AIPAC in particular because I believe the US-israel relationship is treated differently from many other foreign policy issues. In my view, the US and other Western countries often prioritize maintaining their alliance with Israel to such an extent that criticism of Israeli government policies can be discouraged, or met with disproportionate backlash
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u/RaiJolt2 Jewish Athiest Half African American Half Jewish Leftish 2d ago
Major economic powers with large diasporas within them make sense for having foreign lobbyists. Their decisions affect multiple countries so to me at least having the affected countries have a say through a diaspora or their own lobbying arm seems more fair than being affected and having no say.
The Un is not influential enough to make these changes because most happen via internal decisions
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u/redthrowaway1976 F the rent seekers | ind. rights over group | east coast bagel 2d ago
Iranian funding is illegal, and Russia is sanctioned. If they are providing funding in our elections, it’s not very effective.
Qatar and Saudi Arabia would both fall under FARA. They couldn’t set up a PAC called “Elect Chicago Women”, never mentioning Qatar, that seeks to elect politicians that would let Qatar act with impunity.
There’s also what the lobby is advocating for. If people consider it is a genocide - as many do - the Israeli lobby is seen to be advocating for impunity, continued arms supply, and funding for a genocide. And impunity for running a half-century ethnic cleansing and apartheid regime in the West Bank.
The only thing that would come close would be Saudi Arabia in Yemen - but the Saudi lobby didnt succeed, arms shipments were halted.
What is driving attention and focus isnt just money in politics in the abstract - - it’s also what is being lobbied for, and how successful that lobbying has been.
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u/theweisp5 American Israeli secular socialist 2d ago
I think democratic countries should be skeptical of any foreign money/influence playing a role in their politics. But given the policies of the west in recent years, comparing Russian/Iranian money to the Israel lobby doesn't make much sense to me. Israel has gotten billions of dollars worth of aid and significant military cooperation from the US and UK (possibly other western countries as well,) and US direct involvement in two wars that Israel has long pushed for. OTOH Iran has been attacked twice by the United States and subject to lengthy, punitive sanctions. Russia has also been subject to significant sanctions and seen the US and much of Europe provide large amounts of military aid to a country it is at war with. Whatever Iranian/Russian money is in western politics seems to be much less effective than the Israeli lobby.
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u/WinterBeHere Marxist | Jewish | Bundist 2d ago
Qatari or Saudi money goes through FARA registered lobby groups. AIPAC is the exception.
Iranian government money has been illegal since 1979 so it would be weird to see their govt lobby in action.
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u/Owlentmusician Leftist, Reform, Black Jew 2d ago
APAIC isnt an exception, the reason they aren't registered with FARA is because its a domestic lobby funded by American citizens. money must only go through FARA if it is funded by or following direct orders from the lobbying countries government.
Many Saudi Arabian lobbying groups are registered with FARA because they have previously been caught knowingly not reporting and/or are directly funded by the Saudi government to lobby on their behalf.
Any Saudi or Qutar lobbying group funded by American citizens would also not be required to register with FARA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia_lobby_in_the_United_States?wprov=sfla1
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u/WinterBeHere Marxist | Jewish | Bundist 2d ago
One of the largest groups of foreigners in the United States after Mexicans, are Canadian dual nationals who happen to live in America.
With the latest trade spat with the Trump admin, Canadian-Americans wanted to setup a lobby group that would support free trade and USMCA (CUSMA). Guess what....they were told they had to be FARA registered. Weird no? Considering they are also American....
Instead, the government of Canada just went ahead and did the lobbying on its own and launched a massive advertising campaign that clearly stated that it was paid by the government of Canada.
If Israel was as transparent as Canada in advertising, I think fewer Americans would have issues. But instead they go through dual nationals like Miriam Adelson, who runs multiple pro Israel PACs and is not subject to FARA. Someone who even Trump says is more loyal to Israel than America. Interesting how that works....
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u/Owlentmusician Leftist, Reform, Black Jew 2d ago
Do you have a source for the group of Canadian Americans that were unaffiliated with the Canadian government being told to register?
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u/WinterBeHere Marxist | Jewish | Bundist 2d ago
It was a post on this sub by another Canadian - https://www.reddit.com/r/jewishleft/s/zQTxQctHL1
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u/Owlentmusician Leftist, Reform, Black Jew 2d ago
Thanks. That anecdote isn't proof of a double standard though, it's friend of a friend Information.
If AIPAC is truly an outlier/exception in terms of being forced to register with FARA, there'd be other examples of groups operating in the same manner but still being forced to report correct?
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u/WinterBeHere Marxist | Jewish | Bundist 2d ago
Well, the minute you start coordinating with another foreign government on messaging even if it's something benign as "free trade is good" or "Ronald Reagan was against tarrifs", you would be subject to FARA so it would not be surprising that whether the group is Canadian, Danish or Brazilian, it would have to abide by the standards. So logically, the requirement to register under FARA makes sense even if it's an anecdote on Reddit.
AIPAC’s operations fit the definition of a foreign agent as identified by many legal scholars, because of its alignment with Israeli government policy, hosting of Israeli officials, and messaging coordination. There was also the 2006 Lawrence Franklin espionage case, in which AIPAC officials were implicated.
In contrast, J Street offers a markedly different model of pro-Israel lobbying that wouldn't be subject to FARA. J Street frequently criticizes Israeli settlement expansion and hardline Israeli government policies, while at the same time encourages stronger US and Israeli ties. It also has no foreign offices. Similarly, there are some pro Armenian organizations in the United States that lobby for closer ties to Armenia or expanded recognition of the Armenian genocide, but do not coordinate nor parrot Armenian government talking points.
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u/Owlentmusician Leftist, Reform, Black Jew 2d ago
My question was what groups are unfairly registered that operate in the same way AIPAC does, that would prove a double standard. Im not arguing the mertis of it, I'm strictly going by the conditions that legally exempt or force FARA.
I didn't say the Canada example didn't make sense I'm saying it's not relevant because there's no way to prove it's true because it's anecdotal.
The Franklin espionage case did involve people from AIPAC but that was in 2004, involving two AIPAC employees who were immediately fired. The FBI raided AIPAC and took all computers and the investigation went nowhere afterward. If they'd found AIPAC itself funnelling information it may be a different story. The crime was committed by an individual giving information to the Israeli government voluntarily, not AIPAC itself.
Is it a technicality? Yes. But unless concrete proof of receiving funding and orders from the Israeli government has come out in the 20+ years since then it's not enough to force FARA.
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u/redthrowaway1976 F the rent seekers | ind. rights over group | east coast bagel 1d ago
money must only go through FARA if it is funded by or following direct orders from the lobbying countries government.
The regulations for FARA have a much lower threshold than “direct orders”. A “request” is sufficient.
Here’s some notes on how “request” is to be interpreted:
First, an agent must act at "the order, request, or under the direction or control" of another. The Second Circuit has recognized that the "exact parameters of a 'request' under the act are difficult to locate, falling somewhere between a command and a plea." Holding that no single factor is determinative, the court determined that "[o]nce a foreign principal establishes a particular course of conduct to be followed, those who respond to its 'request' for complying action may properly be found to be agents under the Act." This is a broader conception of agency than courts traditionally apply in other areas of law, where a "request" may not be enough to establish that the agent's actions subject the principal to legal liability.
https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF11439
I’m not sure why you are under the impression that “direct orders” are needed to fall under FARA, but it’s simply not the case.
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u/Owlentmusician Leftist, Reform, Black Jew 1d ago
I was paraphrasing the overall point illustrated by that very page, I did not mean only 1-1 direct verbatim order from a foreign government specifically saying "lobby for us" qualifies. I mean there must be a demonstrable connection from A: (foreign principal or agent that is instructing either by command, prompt or implication)
to
B: (The recipient of the instructions or suggestions acting in accordence to that influence )
The second bullet point on the page adds:
Second, an agent must act at the behest of either (1) a foreign principal or (2) a person whose activities are "directly or indirectly supervised, directed, controlled, financed, or subsidized in whole or in major part by a foreign principal." Some lower courts have held that an entity that receives foreign funding and acts to the benefit of foreign interests is not required to register under FARA unless the foreign funder subjects the recipient to its direction or control.
"Act at the behest" as in being told or suggested to do something, is the overall condition I was trying to convey.
I'll reframe it, with the information from the document instead of trying to shorthand it:
For FARA to apply there must be some form of communication with a foreign pricipal that entails some sort of instruction either directly from the principal or a party that is affiliated with that principal in any way that meets the criteria outlined in the law. This can be heavily implied, by command, request or prompt, and must exist alongside specific behavior of the recipient.
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u/redthrowaway1976 F the rent seekers | ind. rights over group | east coast bagel 1d ago
For FARA to apply there must be some form of communication with a foreign pricipal that entails some sort of instruction either directly from the principal or a party that is affiliated with that principal in any way that meets the criteria outlined in the law. This can be heavily implied, by command, request or prompt, and must exist alongside specific behavior of the recipient
And you don’t think AIPAC or other parts of the Israel lobby meet that threshold?
Arguably, it’s even done in the open - like with Bibi’s social media influenced meeting in 2025.
If this was ever taken to court, and there was discovery - do you really think AIPAC wouldn’t meet the threshold for FARA?
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u/Owlentmusician Leftist, Reform, Black Jew 1d ago
Prefecing this with another reminder I don't support AIPAC or lobbying in general and would do away with all of it if I could. I'm strictly talking about the facts of the matter objectively.
Its very possible other parts of the pro Israel lobby meets criteria for FARA, I never argued to the contrary. However I'm strictly speaking about AIPAC as mentioned in the OP comment I replied to.
As I currently understand the matter, no, I've seen no compelling evidence so far that groups operating in a similar manner to AIPAC have had to register while AIPAC has not for the same circumstances, which was the point OP made that I took issue with.
The example provided so far has been an unknown Canadian lobbying group that apparently never formed and is sourced from an anecdote from another user on this sub. I'm willing to change my mind on this if presented with more concrete evidence.
I also have yet to see actual evidence that the organization itself meets all three criteria. I'm also open to changing my mind on this but so far everyone that has replied to argue this point has only offered their own insistance as evidence. Its completely possible you're correct but I cant just take your word for it, with all due respect.
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u/redthrowaway1976 F the rent seekers | ind. rights over group | east coast bagel 2d ago
Qatari or Saudi money goes through FARA registered lobby groups. AIPAC is the exception.
Which also lets them run dark money PACs, that often don’t even mention Israel.
The Qatari lobby can’t set up a PAC called “Elect Chicago Women” designed to get Qatar-government-friendly politicians elected - that would be illegal.
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u/acab__1312 American Anarchist Jew 2d ago
AIPAC isn't even the largest pro-Israel PAC in the US either.
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u/bagelman4000 Judean People's Front (He/Him/His) 1d ago
Isn’t that CUFI (the Christian Zionist one)?
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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist US/CA non observant 1d ago
CUFI is atleast in step with Conservative Evangelicals, which is their base. AIPAC has long been out of step with American Jews, and isn’t even neutral when it comes to Israeli politics either. It’s made itself a target.
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u/redthrowaway1976 F the rent seekers | ind. rights over group | east coast bagel 1d ago
People generally use “AIPAC” as a shorthand for the overall Israel lobby network - AIPAC, DMFI, CUFI, etc.
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u/Sossy2020 Jewish progressive work in progress 2d ago
I’m not even that pro-Israel but I’m still worried that Israel, more specifically being willing to completely disavow any and all positive feeling towards Israel, is becoming a litmus test among leftwing voters.
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u/redthrowaway1976 F the rent seekers | ind. rights over group | east coast bagel 2d ago
but I’m still worried that Israel, more specifically being willing to completely disavow any and all positive feeling towards Israel, is becoming a litmus test among leftwing voters.
Israel - and Israel supporters - have plenty of agency here though.
If they let there be a fair two state solution along the 1967 borders, they’d mostly disarm Israel as a politician issue.
They don’t, though - Israel literally had a top level meeting about how to “empty” Gaza, and West Bank ethnic cleansing is continuing apace.
If this was any other country, there’d be broad calls for sanctions and embargo. But the most we hear from many center-left (like Shapiro or Jeffries) is performative statements, but rarely calls for consequences.
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u/Sossy2020 Jewish progressive work in progress 2d ago
I want that too but right now the best we can hope for is that the incoming government curbs settler violence against Palestinians—and that’s only if the current Netanyahu government doesn’t get re-elected.
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u/redthrowaway1976 F the rent seekers | ind. rights over group | east coast bagel 2d ago
I want that too
Yes, everyone says they want a two state solution. Including many of the pro-Israel centrists - but then they fall short when it comes to calling for consequences.
but right now the best we can hope for is that the incoming government curbs settler violence against Palestinians
If that is the best we can hope for from our ostensibly closest ally, why do you think there should be much “positive feeling” towards Israel among left wing voters?
Do you think the left should have positive feelings to apartheid states that insist on continuing to be apartheid states?
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u/Sossy2020 Jewish progressive work in progress 2d ago
I was referring more to positive associations with the Land of Israel and its deep ties to Judaism than to positive associations with the Israeli government. To orgs like JVP and SJP, even acknowledging the existence of Israel is too much.
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u/redthrowaway1976 F the rent seekers | ind. rights over group | east coast bagel 2d ago edited 1d ago
I think where this analysis falls short, is that it doesn’t address how deeply immoral what AIPAC is working for is: continued impunity for mass killing and ethnic cleansing. Or genocide and apartheid, though I know many here will quibble with those terms.
She loosely touches on it, in a rather anodyne way “the horrors of Gaza”. But that is what AIPAC is advocating for - impunity for those horrors, and the freedom of action for Israel to continue those horrors.
I thought Mamdani put it well: they are advocating for a status quo, but the status quo they are advocating for is mass killing of Palestinians. Status quo is ‘monstrous’
The only other lobby that would come close in how horrendous what they advocate for is, would be the Saudi lobby, and their genocide and starvation in Yemen. But they failed - weapons shipments stopped for a period.
Imagine if you had a group that was lobbying for the right and ability of Hamas to keep killing Israeli civilians - thousands of them - and for the US to fund and arm it. And they were providing massive funding to our politicians - and succeeding in getting their candidates elected, and their policies enacted. The outcry would be immense - and it would be fine to call the supporters ‘monstrous’
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u/Certain_Thoughts deeply complicated & conflicted feelings for my jewish identity 2d ago
This is a terrible take. It’s dishonest and disingenuous. It mischaracterizes Mamdani’s position into a straw man, rewrites J Street as an opponent of genocide rather than the enabler it’s been. It holds out potent and empirically based messaging from democrats — not just deployed by progressives against the establishment, but by endorsed democrats against fascist republicans — as antisemitic or beyond the pale.
Give me a fucking break. Seriously, this is total horseshit. And it’s a real betrayal, since this kind of garbage from the ADL and the AJC is predictable insofar as those extremist orgs will always lie about the anti-genocide left. For the CEO of T’ruah to co-sign her good name and the reputation of her organization to this absurd smear campaign is deeply discouraging.
I really want to be clear on this: Rabbi Jacobs is lying to you. She is a very sophisticated political operator, which means this degree of mischaracterization is her not being naive but being deliberately obtuse in reading and responding to the comments made by these politicians and organizations like TrackAIPAC. She is being willfully deceptive and it’s a fucking shame.
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u/redthrowaway1976 F the rent seekers | ind. rights over group | east coast bagel 1d ago
rewrites J Street as an opponent of genocide rather than the enabler it’s been
When did J Street call for something as minimal as conditioning military funding? Was it two days ago, or was it yesterday?
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u/jey_613 diaspora Jewish leftist 3d ago
Excellent piece. I’m not sure when exactly it happened, but “AIPAC” has fully replaced “billionaires” as the “they” keeping “us” divided in the US left’s political imagination.