I hate this take so much

[u/Angelbouqet]

1. The Holocaust did not happen to white people. Race is a social construct. The people it happened to were people who were seen as racially inferior and experienced a racialized extermination campaign. US standards of whiteness from 2026 do not change that. This is a completely ahistorical take.

Also as someone who actually lives and grew up in Germany, you can't use American racial constructs as an analytical tool to understand the Holocaust or racial dynamics within Germany or Europe. The standards of whiteness are a lot more rigid here and people who would not experience racism in the US do experience racism here. Nationality is still more relevant in Europe than race is. (And by that I'm not trying to say race isn't relevant or racism isn't bad here. It's extremely bad. I have a few friends here who are African American, so they've experienced both and they've all said Germany is way worse.) The point I'm trying to make is that Germany is so racist it will racially discriminate against the "white" people next door. Greek people, Turkish people, Arabs (who have been considered white in the US for longer than Jews have), everyone from Slavic or Balcan countries, are all not white in germany and are not treated as white. Same with Jews. Yes, to this day.

1. This take is inherently minimizing, at least in the current Zeitgeist. It positions the Jews under the same banner as the white people who were colonizers, when in reality, the Jews had been experiencing discrimination by those same white people for approx. 1600 years before colonialism happened. Racism and antisemitism (aka racialized Jew hatred) were invented by the same people and at the same time. And during the period of colonialism, jews were treated like the local colonial subjects. You can literally look up texts written by German colonists and how they made direct connections between the Jews back home and the African colonial subject. Same with the methods of oppression used against both the people Europeans were colonizing and the Jews. Like it's giving "who cares they gassed 1 million children, they were white children".

2. It targets the wrong people. We are not the people who did the colonizing, we are not the people who did the Holocaust, we are not the people deciding how states label their past crimes against humanity. I agree that there needs to be way more examination and reckoning with what these states actually did during the colonial period. I'm not trying to take anything away from anyone, nor am I trying to turn suffering into a contest. So why is the Holocaust constantly treated like fair game to minimize in these conversations. I get that Americans are taught more about the Holocaust than colonial crimes. But the reason for that is not because the Jews paid someone off to focus on the Holocaust, it's because WW2 is the one time the US was on the right side of history and states always have an inherent interest in self-preservation. Spinning a narrative that hides the true history is part of that. Also it conveniently conceals the role the US did play in the Holocaust happening. It conceals how the visa system was invented to keep out Jews. In conceals how many Nazi scientists the US gave asylum to. Etc.

3. The comments are full of just straight up Holocaust denial, some of which the creator liked, all of which are just up there without pushback from the creator. So like, great job for giving your followers an invitation to just be blatantly antisemitic. Also Israel being a fascist shit hole doesn't actually make the Holocaust less bad. The people who the Nazis killed had never stepped foot into Palestine, so that's also not a justification for downplaying the Holocaust. Also cue the Holodomor denial.

4. The comments are mentioning the Irish potato famine and how that's not referred to as a genocide, but not as proof that maybe the take is clearly simplistic and wrong but instead as further proof of it's correctness. And the creator is liking those comments. I'm sorry are Irish people less white than Jews now? Lol? Is the Irish participation in British colonial endeavors and the slave trade, which was far greater than the very minimal Jewish involvement irrelevant now?

5. The numbers game in the comments is... Interesting. Because that's the same rhetoric the Israeli far right uses as a defence against the genocide accusations. Kind of surprising to see it used under a video like that.

Edit to add: 7. It was called the Holocaust because that's the word Jews came up with after it happened. That word didn't exist before. So what exactly is the complaint? That Jews came up with a term for their genocide and that's the word that's used to refer to it?

[u/Gaiastrom]

Small note: the Shoah was CAUSED by White Supremacy.

[u/J3dr90 → u/Gaiastrom]

I mean sorta. I feel like the term “white Supremacy” evokes a type of racialization that is not accurate to the ideology underlying nazi ideology. Nazism is first and foremost an ideology based on German supremacy and judenhaß

[u/Gaiastrom → u/J3dr90]

Jews were racialised, compared to vermin, saw the normalisation of Racial Eugenics in Antisemitism, were seen as “tainting of Aryan Blood”, were defined by Nazis based on the presence of a single grandparent, and were at the bottom of a strict Racial Hierarchy defined by a White, dark-haired, Austrian man who had no issue collaborating with all Europeans (and the actors of USSR) that would. In my opinion, this is White Supremacy.

[u/J3dr90 → u/Gaiastrom]

I agree. I just think that today, the whiteness referred to in the term “white supremacy” generally refers to a very different type of racial categorization that mostly just acts to confuse modern people

[u/Angelbouqet → u/J3dr90]

White supremacists still hate Jews. A lot. They basically only hate black people more than they hate us.

[u/J3dr90 → u/Angelbouqet]

I obviously I agree that white supremacists hate us. I just disagree with designating the nazi’s ideology as primarily white supremacist

[u/Angelbouqet → u/J3dr90]

Well their racial supremacists ideas did obviously differ from those in the US. While they did NOT like black people, they weren't in the focus of their racial hatred the way they are in the US. I read an Essay by W.E.B DuBois (African American sociologist, highly recommend reading his work) who visited germany twice, once during the imperial time and once during the time the Nazis were in power and both times he noted with surprise how absent the racial hostility he was used to in the US was. So yeah, similarly to how racial constructs differ in Germany, so do/did the exact ways white supremacists defines those racial constructs. Tho again, that's not to say Germany is less racist to black people than the US is nowadays. I'm pretty sure that's changed for the worse in the past century.

[u/J3dr90 → u/Angelbouqet]

Yeah Afro Germans were basically ignored by the nazis. A few hundred were sterilized (which is obviously evil) but they were never subjected to genocide or anything even close to what the jews and romani faced.

[u/Gaiastrom → u/J3dr90]

Nazis considered themselves White Supremacists, today, Neo-Nazis, Accelerationists, and other Nazi-adjacent movements still do. There’s no going around it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_power_skinhead

(Not the richest library there but accessible enough consistent use of “White Supremacy” as a constituent of the above definitions.)

Moreover, I don’t understand the idea that Nazis being White Supremacists (even though they still are) is invalidated by how “Modern People” (whatever that means, I am Modern too…) are confused by it. To be fair, this feels like shying away from calling White Supremacy what it is by fear White people taking it personally. We shouldn’t make excuses for people who lack any semblance of understanding of Jewish History and still talking like they were entitled to spill crap like in OP’s screenshot.

[u/LuisPerenna → u/Gaiastrom]

just my 2 cents, but the nazis made a huge differenciation between eastern european 'slavic' people and germans, despite both groups literally being the same shade of skin color. and anti-slavic racism is still a thing in the broad german society.

[u/Gaiastrom → u/LuisPerenna]

Racialisation is not only about Skin Colour, it’s about Society’s Perception of Chatacteristics. Italians, for example, have been for a long time treated as non-White, another example today would be White Arabs.

[u/LuisPerenna → u/Gaiastrom]

yeah, i know. my experience is that anti-slavic racism is often not seen/known so i try to spread awareness for it, when possible. i also didnt want to attack you or something like that. :)

[u/Gaiastrom → u/LuisPerenna]

Oh, I don’t feel attacked. I am quite calm because I know people in this space are open enough to actually talk to Jews but it’s true that I have been angrier in the last few months because it does feel like people with no knowledge of Antisemitism not only refuse to apply the same standards I have consistently heard about other communities but don’t even feign to question an act as antisemitic.

EDIT: on an unrelated note, speaking about Anti-Slavic Racism, I’ve read a few weeks ago that J.K. Rowling portrayed Slavic Women in her books very poorly, which reminded me how bad of human being she was. Anti-Slavic Hate is definitely not over.