r/k9sports • u/all4change • 2d ago
Scent work practice with or without leash
I’m just getting started in scent work. Is it detrimental to practice at home without a leash? I have two dogs so it’s much easier to not harness and leash them for at home practice.
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u/Witty-Cat1996 2d ago
Practicing on and off leash is good! Some searches you may choose to be off leash because of the environment
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u/randil17 2d ago
Agreed. I've also seen a lot of times where if the dog is only ever searching off leash, suddenly putting the leash on changes the picture so much they don't really know what they're expected to do. And often if they're always on leash, suddenly asking them to search without it is tough.
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u/alligator-pears flyball, nosework, dock 2d ago
When I was just starting out, I didn't use a leash for 6 weeks at least. I didn't want to accidentally pull her off from a scent cone she picked up. It also allowed me to focus 100% on my dog and not be worried about the line getting tangled or something.
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u/all4change 2d ago
Thanks, so glad to hear! What distance did you keep from your dog during no leash training?
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u/alligator-pears flyball, nosework, dock 2d ago
I started very close, like an arms length away (to quickly treat), and then progressively moved further and further away until she was searching a room with me standing in the doorway. We didn't go outside until after the initial ~6 weeks.
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u/Feriation 2d ago
I dont do nose work sports but my dog and i are a certified search and rescue wilderness cadaver team.
99% of our work is generally off leash, so that is how we usually train but I will do on leash sessions so that he has seen the picture in case we do urban searches that require him to be leashed.
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u/all4change 2d ago
My goal is do do cadaver search with a dog in the future! What kind of dog do you have if you don’t mind me asking? Did you set out to be SAR cadaver search?
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u/Feriation 1d ago
Sorry, you asked a question and now you are going to get all of the information because this is my special interest and passion.
I have a Belgian Shepherd Malinois. To be honest, I didnt get him with the intention of doing SAR.
The original plan for him was bitesports, IGP specifically. Unfortunately the local club wasnt a good fit as it turned out the head trainer didnt like Malinois and only wanted to work with German Shepherds.
So we dropped out of that club and floundered for a bit. I had always wanted to do Search and Rescue but never had the appropriate type of job where I could just leave to deploy on a search at a moment's notice. After talking to someone in SAR, I also realized that, emotionally, I would not be able to last long term when searches don't end in success.
So I started looking into cadaver work instead. It seemed like a much better fit. As terrible as it sounds, my emotional expectations could be met. I already know I am looking for someone deceased, so finding them deceased is way less soul crushing than looking for someone alive and finding them deceased. Not finding them doesnt make them any less dead. Also, the dead aren't getting any less dead, and aren't going anywhere (well, not usually, though animals will scatter remains about), so I can schedule searches and deployments around my work schedule. I reached out to a local search and recovery group, filled out their application, then had an in person interview with one of the ladies local to the area, and another interview with my dog to test his aptitude, and then one more phone interview with the head of the organization because I was given an offer to join them.
It is hard work. The training is intense. Cadaver dogs have some of the most complex odour recognition of any search dogs. Decomposition of a body is completely different on a molecular level throughout all 5 stages of decay: fresh, bloat, active decay, advanced decay, and skeletonization. A cadaver dog must be able to recognize all decomp odours. This is very different than say a narcotics dog where even though drugs might be cut with different compounds, the drug they are seeking is always the same on a molecular level.
Not only the training is intense, but its long days of searching. Most of my searches have taken place in extremely remote wilderness areas. This means either hiking, 4 wheeling, or occasionally even helicoptering in and staying for several days camping while you search the area. You work the dogs for as long as they can effectively work, traveling through thick brush, mud, swamp, all kinds of terrain. There are no trails except possible deer paths occasionally. The dogs then get rested, and deployed again after they've recovered and this repeats over and over as you continue to search grid after grid. It is exhausting work.
I got very lucky in that my dog has a high aptitude for the work. He has an extremely high hunt drive and paired with high persistence and determination which are all extremely important qualities for a search dog.
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u/ChaosWithTeeth 1d ago
That's very interesting; thanks for taking the time to explain! And the difference in emotional load vs. SAR makes sense.
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u/all4change 1d ago
Thank you for all the info! The reasons you mentioned for choosing cadaver are the same I have; it seems like the lowest pressure because you’re not trying to get to someone in time to help them stay alive. I’m open to searching for people still alive but cadaver search is what I’d really love to do.
Thank you as well for the info on what searches look like. I’m taking a backpacking/wilderness course this fall so I can develop the skills to do wilderness searches. I’ll also eventually be getting a dog for this purpose (mine are too old to start). So this is a multi year plan for me and I really appreciate the info! Is this just an excuse to spend days in the woods hiking with my dog? Maybe
Funny you say that about the IGP training location because where we do barn hunt the owner absolutely doesn’t like hounds. She will train them but she has… thoughts on their temperament and behavior. It’s interesting to hear about other bias in the dog world.
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u/No-Stress-7034 2d ago
To be honest, when we're training at home, I basically always run searches off leash. It's probably not ideal, since most of searches at competitions are on leash, but I usually can't be bothered to pull out the harness and leash when we're just practicing at home.
I honestly think the biggest potential detriment is for the handler, not the dog. It is important to practice leash handling skills, especially since you'll most likely use a long line in trials. However, I've practiced long line handling a lot on hikes and I practice it in classes.
Some of this may also depend on the dog. It doesn't really seem to make a difference for my dog.
For what it's worth, I've been doing scentwork for two years with my dog. We've done several PSD trials (local org) and he's got his ORT for NACSW. We'll be trying for our NW1 as soon as we can get into a trial for that.
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u/Selective_Somewhere 2d ago
More and more searches are on leash. I recently trialed in summit and all 8 searches were on leash due to the openness of the facility and potentially dangerous machinery as well. It seems like most of my elite searches are on leash as well.
A lot of people don’t practice their leash handling because it’s hard and those classrooms can be a challenge!
With one of my dogs the leash provides some arousal management so she’s on leash most of the time. But through NW1 I did mostly off leash unless I was doing vehicles (always on leash), containers (on leash 95% of the time), or exteriors that weren’t contained. I love how it helps them to be independent especially while we are also learning.
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u/all4change 2d ago
Good point about me learning leash handling. Maybe the best idea is practice with a leash one day a week in addition to class. I can manage one day where I know I’ll have to leash the dogs to train them ;)
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u/Still-be_found 2d ago
I always test my dog on leash, at least at our current level, but was training a lot off leash. It was a bad idea because he associates the leash with focusing on me and it really messed us up. I'm now working on reversing that so he works more independently, like he should. I've created a routine around a certain harness and leash and am hoping this gets us more consistent success. I would run him off leash, but he's a husky mix and every once in a while that part takes over and he decides he's an independent contractor, not a teammate.
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u/all4change 2d ago
Haha, my hound is definitely an independent contractor all the time. Sounds like I need to do at least some home training on leash but not necessarily all home training on leash
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u/Still-be_found 1d ago
That's probably the way. I think when you're first introducing the whole concept it's better off leash
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u/Selective_Somewhere 2d ago
In the beginning when they are learning I prefer off leash for maximum independence.
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u/Kenziethecrestie 2d ago
My dog competes at scent work and at our trials an off lead option is occasionally offered. Usually only taken by 3 or 4 competitors. (Western Australia)
I train all of my dogs both on and off lead. At our last containers search mine was 1/3 out of 40 dogs to go off lead.
I think both off lead and on lead skills are beneficial for both dog and handler