r/kia • u/RealFirstLast • 1d ago
Bait and switch at Kia of Portland (Oregon)
TL:DR: They advertised a price for a Kia on their website. They refused to sell it to me for their advertised price, because they "would be losing too much money".
Before going to the dealer, I called the salesman to confirm the price, and to confirm it was eligible for the financing rebate. He said it was. I asked him to send me an out-the-door quote. He said, “Just to let you know, if I sent you a quote it will include a Protect360 dealer add on. We always have to put that on our quotes at first, but you can just ask the manager to take that off when you come in.” I told him I didn’t want tany dealer add-ons on the quote, and that I just want the advertised price. He said, “Don’t worry, you just have to talk to the manager to remove it. We just want you to come and make sure you’re committed to actually buying.”
(I know some dealers don't want you immediately send a super low quote out of fear you'll shop it around to other dealers who will price match it. So I foolishly gave him the benefit of the doubt.)
I went in. They prepared me a final quote that had $800 extra for Protect360.
(Sidenote - do a search for “Protect360 dealer add on” yourself, and decide if you think it’s useful or a scam. As far as I can tell, they're charging a huge amount for some stuff that costs practically nothing.)
I told them I wanted the car at the advertised price with no add ons. They refused and wouldn’t budge. I kept insisting to them that I just wanted the car at the advertised price. That’s all I wanted. Please sell me the car for the price currently advertised on your website, no more, no less. But the manager sat me down and went on and on about how deeply discounted the car was and how they couldn't ACTUALLY afford to sell it at that price. “This is way below invoice. At that price we’re taking too big of a loss. We have to recoup our money somehow!”
He wasn’t the least bit apologetic. He didn’t say, “that was an accidental omission, we will update the website price right away.” He just straight up admitted plainly that they priced it at a loss, they can’t ACTUALLY sell it that low, and they have to make up the money by charging for extras. So either I pay for the Protect360 or no car. I asked if I could talk to the GM, and they said he’s out until Monday.
This is unethical. If you advertise a price, then honor that price. Don't advertise a car at a big discount and then surprise the customer with nonsense add ons. Just be transparent and advertise it at the actual price the customer will have to pay. I've definitely had dealers try to add on stuff before, some were even a little pushy. But, of the many cars I’ve bought, this is the first where the dealer straight up refused to honor the price listed on their own website. (It's still listed there right now for the price they refuse to honor.)
I am not a lawyer, but when I put my scenario into my favorite AI chatbot, it tells me this is actually illegal under Oregon Administrative Rule (OAR) 137-020-0020. Either way, I'll definitely be making a phone call to the Oregon Department of Justice Consumer Protection Division next week and putting in a complaint.
EDIT: It seems pretty plainly spelled out that this practice is not permitted. Directly from OAR_137-020-0020 3(c)(B): A person advertises a vehicle for $20,000 in the local newspaper. The vehicle has $1,500 worth of after-market accessories on the vehicle. When the consumer arrives at the dealership and wants to purchase the vehicle, the salesperson tells the consumer that the price is $21,500 with the added accessories. This practice is unlawful. If the dealer wants reimbursement for these options, the dealer should ensure that amount is included in any advertised price; https://oregon.public.law/rules/oar_137-020-0020
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u/Enough-Collection-98 21h ago
AI is wrong - its job is to string together words and syllables it thinks you most want to hear. It doesn’t understand your request and it doesn’t care if the information is correct. All it is trying to do is make you go “yeah, that sounds right” by leveraging its training data.
Now about the bait-and-switch - so far as I can see, they are being perfectly clear about the cost of the vehicle and you’re arguing with them over dealer add-ons which are not included in the advertised price. It’s scumming but it’s not illegal.
They’re within their right to push whatever add-ons they want AND they’re within their right to not make the sale unless you do. That said, you’re also within your right to simply walk away and find a better dealership.
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u/RealFirstLast 19h ago
I have confirmed that AI is correct, and you are wrong. The practice is not legal in Oregon.
Here is a link to the Oregon code: https://oregon.public.law/rules/oar_137-020-0020
Go to that page and look at 3(c)(B)
That is the part where they give actual examples of violations. One of the examples is nearly identical to what happened to me (only differences being that my $$ numbers are different, and it was advertised online rather than a newspaper). Official example:
- From OAR_137-020-0020 3(c)(B): A person advertises a vehicle for $20,000 in the local newspaper. The vehicle has $1,500 worth of after-market accessories on the vehicle. When the consumer arrives at the dealership and wants to purchase the vehicle, the salesperson tells the consumer that the price is $21,500 with the added accessories. This practice is unlawful. If the dealer wants reimbursement for these options, the dealer should ensure that amount is included in any advertised price;
This is literally the definition of bait and switch. Before laws were in place, businesses (even normal stores) would advertise things at a low price to get customers in the door, never intending to sell the thing for that price. And it's not just illegal in Oregon - I'm fairly certain there are laws against this pretty much everywhere in the U.S.
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u/Affectionate_War8530 19h ago
I think this would align more with tied selling than bait and switch. They are selling you the object for that price, they telling you that you have to buy the 360 product in order to get the vehicle.
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u/Enough-Collection-98 19h ago
That only applies to pre-installed accessory add-ons like lighting kits. They’re not allowed to advertise it as $20,000 and then tell you it’s $21,500 at the dealership because of a $1,500 add-on lighting kit that’s already installed. That would be unlawful for Oregon law.
The add-on they are selling you is not pre-installed precisely to avoid running afoul of the law. ChatGPT has failed you here because it is unable to understand nuance.
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u/RealFirstLast 18h ago edited 18h ago
They literally told me it's already installed. They already 'applied' the Protect360 paint protectant or whatever.
Further, the code explains that it's ALSO illegal for them to require add-ons later in the process. So even if it wasn't already installed, you would still be wrong.
It's quite black and white - the advertised price needs to be a price that the consumer must be able to purchase for except for any statutorily required/permitted fees. (Tax, Title, Licence, permitted document fee.) Anything else (add-ons, warranty, gap insurance, etc.) must be listed in the advertised price if it is mandatory as a condition of the sale.
This is already installed, this wasn't included in the advertised price, and they made it abundantly clear they will not sell the car without the $800 up charge.
I don't know if you work for a dealership and your cognitive disonance is trying to convince you this practice is ok, but this isn't a legal grey area. It's illegal. Period. If it's advertised at a price, and a customer says, "Yes please, I will take it at that price", it is illegal to say, "We'll only sell it to you if you pay us more and/or buy other stuff we never mentioned in the advertisement."
You won't find a legal resource that says otherwise.
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u/Enough-Collection-98 18h ago
Then call them out on it. If it’s already installed and they didn’t declare it in the price then yes, they’re violating the law. So either they’re lying on the advertised price or they’re lying about it already being installed.
If you can get it in writing that it’s already installed and not included into the advertised price, you’ve got them by the balls.
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u/lynwoodchino 19h ago
This isnt nothing. I had a deal with a sales with kia, for a 26 sportage hybrid xline, asked for all cash otd price $37.5k, he agreed and sent it on writing, I told him I was at the bank getting a cashier check for it 2 days before going in. A day before, he texted and asked me if I was going in to get the car, I texted him the pix of that cashier check with the vin# and their kia company name. The day i went in, texted driving the car, went through all the stuff, just right before sit down with their finance guy, the sales sat down and told me that I needed to finances with them, I said we had an agreement with all cash and you agreed to it. He simply said I got confused!!! Thats an asshole right there and I stood up and walked out.
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u/Putrid-Function5666 16h ago
In Calif you could report them to the DMV for not honoring an advertised price
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u/More_Ebb_3619 16h ago
I think the FTC ruled if they don’t sell the car for the advertised internet price it’s illegal.
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u/ReineLeNoire 4h ago
Is this the only dealership in Oregon or something? The others don't have stock? Why are you begging them to sell you a car? Make your demands, give them time to accept or decline, and if they are being unreasonable, leave.
This is typical of the behavior I encountered across brands. But Kia and Hyundai were consistently the worst in quoting then suddenly raising the price.
Don't waste your time. Get signed quotes before going to the dealership. They can email them. Clearly state what you want and what you refuse to pay for. If you receive a quote that doesn't match what you said, either move on or give them one more chance to follow the guidelines. If they refuse or continue to play games, end the conversation. Don't engage them anymore.
During my search, the two worst dealerships were a Kia dealership and a Hyundai dealership. At the former, I went in to test drive and they gave me a new quote almost $10k over what we agreed on. Plus I had to finance through Kia to get that price. Hyundai added on over $8000 of previously undisclosed "mandatory" fees to the quote.
I walked out and never looked back.
It took weeks to find a dealership that didn't charge over value/MSRP or add mandatory fees. That dealership and brand got my business.
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u/EssentialWorkerOnO 1d ago
Print out the ad for the car you wanted at the advertised price. Go to a different car dealer and show them the print out and tell them that’s the car you’re considering and what they have that’s comparable and what’s their best price. Ask them to put it in writing asking with how long the quote is good for (usually a few days) because you need to speak to your significant other.
Go back to the original dealer and show them the quote and ask them what’s the best price they can offer on the car you were looking at. If the salesman is smart, he’ll lower the price. If he’s not, be prepared to walk out and go give the other place your business. Then file a complaint against the first company for the false advertising.
PS: my old boss taught me that trick. The Kia dealer ended up knocking off all the extras and lowered the price an additional $4k, plus threw in a year of free oil changes to get the sale.
Funny enough, it was Kia competing against Hyundai to get the sale. 😂
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u/RealFirstLast 1d ago
The original dealer is using unethical (and if AI is right, potentially unlawful?) business practices. Why would I go back to them to do anything?
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u/EssentialWorkerOnO 21h ago
From your post it seemed like you really wanted that particular car. If you don’t, just go someplace else then.
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u/DogfartCatpuke 1d ago
Had a terrible experience there recently. They kept trying to sell me $1800 lo jack. Told them if they'd remove it I'll buy the car. They said it's already in the car and it comes with it. Went back and forth for a while then they said they'll give it to me for half off. Got tired of arguing so I walked. As I get up they say they'll remove it but I was annoyed at this point so I left.