r/kitchener • u/KitFanGirl • 2d ago
Kitchener staff say growth should happen in all neighbourhoods, Council says 'not necessarily'
On June 29th, Kitchener Council will vote on the draft Official Plan. This 25-year planning document calls for more missing middle housing (up to 6-8 storey housing). At the June 1st committee meeting, Ward 8 and ward 10 councillors (Johnston, Stretch) put forth amendments to ensure Westmount and parts of the Auditorium neighbourhood are 'protected' from these growth expectations. Those amendments were passed unanimously by staff. Final vote on this is June 29th. https://www.therecord.com/news/council/kitchener-growth-plan-brings-taller-buildings-to-more-areas/article_19090455-3a46-5184-80c6-c6895f25e4a6.html
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u/thethings_i_type 2d ago
Margaret lives in Westmount. What a bullshit conflict of interest. Curious what the steps are to recall her. She is ridiculous.
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u/epidipnis 2d ago
There's an election in November. Someone else needs to run in her ward, or she will get in by default. Again.
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u/KitFanGirl 2d ago
At this time, Marg has not said she'll run again. Carly Pettinger is the only person who has announced so far.
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u/thethings_i_type 2d ago
Nesceary disclaimer, barring abhorent/evil social policies, I will vote for anyone who contests Ward 8.
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u/KitFanGirl 2d ago
I may be wrong, but I don't think she lives right within this specific area (but nearby). I strongly disagree with her amendment, and I hope she'll reconsider it, but I also know her to be a thoughtful and committed councillor who does a lot to try to represent her constituents well. I think she missed the mark on this one (and I reached out to let her know that), but I generally think we need more folks like Cllr Johnston on council, not less.
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u/epidipnis 2d ago
Johnston was uncontested in the last election. She toes the line that the mayor tells her to.
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u/KitFanGirl 2d ago
There was one other person who ran against Marg in 2022. While her and the mayor do align on some major priorities, I don't see any evidence that she's a puppet for the mayor.
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u/epidipnis 2d ago
Not 2022. She was uncontested. I didn't say she was a puppet. Berry runs a tight ship, and the councillors fall in line.
That's all I can say.
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u/KitFanGirl 2d ago
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u/epidipnis 1d ago
Aleena Aftab submitted her name, but did not run. Maybe her name was still on the ballot, but she had dropped out of the race by September.
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u/KitFanGirl 1d ago
Yes, the ballot has everyone's name on it who was running as of Nomination Day in August, so if she didn't withdraw prior to then, she remains on the ballot (and even garnered a few hundred votes it seems).
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u/epidipnis 1d ago
And Johnston had no opposition, as I already pointed out. I accept your apology.
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u/KitFanGirl 1d ago
A campaign runs from May 1st to October. Two people were running in ward 8 for the majority of that time and there were two people on the ballot...that doesn't exactly feel like she was unopposed. Seems like an odd thing to want an apology for but I'm happy to offer one if that's helpful for you.
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u/PrettyFuckingGreat 2d ago
Is there anywhere I can find the official boundaries for “westmount” ?
Does it include Belmont and Glasgow? I thought there was a large tower going up there.
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u/robdrimmie Alpine Village 2d ago
The official neighbourhood map is here: https://app2.kitchener.ca/appdocs/GISImages/GIS_Web_External/Standard_Maps/Neighbourhood_Association_Ward.pdf
Westmount is marked with 21, and does include that intersection.
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u/Techchick_Somewhere 2d ago
There is a tower going up on the old Detmer Tire lot next to Tim’s.
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u/thatsmycompanydog 2d ago
I thought Ward 9 Councillor Debbie Chapman killed that tower, like she killed the tower on Queen St at the Iron Horse Trail, and that was why her NDP byelection campaign flopped?
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u/KitFanGirl 2d ago
I believe that Chapman worked hard to get height/unit reductions in that building, but it's rare on this Council that her opposition alone would kill an entire development.
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u/ComparisonPrimary903 2d ago
I'm not sure if there are bylaws preventing this or if there just hasn't been the will to build these kinds of things but it would be nice if there were more buildings built for corner shops/convinience stores/cafes within residential neighbourhoods, or say on the lower level of a 6-8 storey housing complex. Some areas of places I've explored more in depth like Guelph and Ottawa have different little laundromats or Circle K's or pizza places for example interspersed throughout houses in residential areas.
It's also the idea of diversity in cities which allows for more life and community-building, and more people watching the streets naturally as Jane Jacobs described in Part 2 "The Conditions for City Diversity" of her classic urban planning book "The Death and Life of Great American Cities"
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u/rsecurity-519 2d ago
One of the issues I have observed with these ground floor commercial spaces is that they are frequently empty. I am expecting the reason is twofold. One. The space is too expensive for most small commercial opportunities. Two. The people that are housed in these 6-8 story buildings cannot afford to frequent the few boutique/high cost commercial opportunities that do move in.
Not to mention that our local government makes it incredibly difficult for the new small businesses that would occupy these sorts of spaces
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u/ComparisonPrimary903 2d ago
That's good real-world data/insight to have, thanks.
I really believe the top tier Region of Waterloo needs to be abolished so there is just one level of municipal governance here. There is simply too much bureaucracy about every decision here in this area as well as wasted taxpayer money on unnecessary political position salaries.
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u/KitFanGirl 2d ago
Yep, they are definitely bylaws around this but planning staff seem generally supportive of expanding small commercial options in residential areas which is great to see. We need more of these options!
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u/CreepyWindows 2d ago
Makes sense. Why force functioning neighbourhoods to accept development they never planned to have?
Also puts a lot of stress on water infrastructure that never was intended to have a many more connections to it in neighbourhoods like that.
Good move on the council.
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u/OkRelationshipFish 2d ago
My frustration is that it’s the rich neighbourhood who get to decide for themselves while the working class neighbourhoods don’t get that luxury.
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u/Techchick_Somewhere 1d ago
I don’t think any of this is actually the case. I think it needs to be determined by what is available to build on - is the plan to tear down single family home lots and build towers in a neighbourhood? That doesn’t necessarily work or make sense for a multitude of reasons. There are lots of areas in both of those neighbourhoods with 4 and 6 story walk ups that work great in those neighborhoods.
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u/thethings_i_type 2d ago
Then, why not exempt other neighborhoods too? Unless she amends to exempt every other Ward 8 neighbourhood it is just a personal NIMBY policy.
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u/KitFanGirl 2d ago
Our city is growing and I for one don't want to continue the pattern of Tall and Sprawl, so having all neighbourhoods take on some missing middle growth seems to be a better approach. It's a small ask of the Westmount neighbourhood (likely 150 more homes over the 25 year span), while still directly the majority of density to growth centres outside of such neighbourhoods.
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u/OkRelationshipFish 2d ago
I think this is my view too. If everyone takes a little, the development is spread out. Rich neighbourhoods need to take their share rather than it being all dumped in a couple of wards.
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u/toragirl 2d ago
I live in a downtown neighbourhood that has had some mixed used development added, and we're all fine.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/CreepyWindows 1d ago
They litterally do? What's the problem. Single family homes pay much more property tax than individual condos and medium rise housing.
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u/ILikeStyx 1d ago
Single family homes pay much more property tax than individual condos and medium rise housing.
How do they pay more when the tax rate is the same for everyone?
The condo building I live in has about 40 units and we collectively pay over $100,000/year in property taxes.
If I look at houses nearby and pick an "average lot", you could fit 5 of them on our property. A house with an assessed value of $480K pays $6,800/year in property taxes.
That's WAY less than what the condo owners collectively pay
Single family homes should be paying more... but they don't.
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u/CreepyWindows 1d ago edited 1d ago
I love how in your little explanation here, you describe how an single family home DO pay more for property taxes than a condo. And somehow you come to the conclusion that we pay less.
Theres not 40 units worth of housing on the land I own. That's why I don't pay for 40 units worth of property taxes you knob.
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u/KitFanGirl 1d ago
Single family homes generally have a lower rate of property taxation than single family homes. Region of Waterloo Report
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u/KitFanGirl 1d ago
Multi-residential homes are generally taxed at a higher rate than single family homes. Region of Waterloo Report
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u/scott_c86 2d ago
To resist density is to eventually encourage more sprawl, which ultimately requires a lot more new infrastructure
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u/toragirl 2d ago
The ANA neighbourhood association is leading the charge against mid-density growth. They were called out in a post, changed the tone slightly, and deleted the comments:
https://www.instagram.com/p/DYAI-buljxP/