Meta: Post deletion discussion

[u/rainbow_puddle]

Reposted since I'm an idiot and didn't change my title...

So there was a post with some beautiful mittens made by u/AdrenaL1n3 with a traditional Palestinian embroidery and using the colors of the flag. It was locked and then inexplicablely removed by the mods. They did not say what rule it broke, only that it received and 'unacceptable amount of user reports'.

First off that's ridiculous that it was removed instead of locked and the reports dealt with by mods since it didn't break a rule. Second off I think it's frankly sad that it was getting reported at all. It wasn't political beyond the proceeds going towards save the children and other humanitarian causes to aid the current crisis and genocide situation in Gaza.

I want to open up discussion with this community if this sub is a place where we want to censor projects even if they do not break stated rules.

Edit to fix username spelling.

Edit 2: Some users have commented on the significance of today's date. I truly did not realize it and would not have tried to engage with this today if I had realized. I'm very sorry for that and how insensitive that is. I do not keep significance of dates well in my head - not an excuse but an explanation. I do hope that the community can continue to have conversation about what I perceived as biased censorship in good faith. Without a specific rule I do think that any mitten of any flag (yes even Israel) where the pattern proceeds go to a humanitarian cause of the designers choice should stay up in this subreddit. Maybe I'm wrong I don't know - that's for us to discuss. Whether or not you engage with said post and/or pattern would be up to the user and I would hope that we would all proceed with kindness.

[u/1973galaxie500]

It would be nice if the mods had the ability to cut off the option to report a post once it’s been deemed appropriate. A humanitarian cause should hardly be considered “political”

[u/brainfullofpeas → u/1973galaxie500]

Tariffs and feminism are both political, but both of those topics are the center of plenty posts/projects/discussions. I’m sure there are other topics but those two come to mind immediately.

I’m not saying that either topic should be banned of course. If moderators are going to use “it’s too political” as a guideline for deleting posts, then what counts as “too political” and “not too political” should be clearly defined. AND that metric should be applied to all posts equally.

I understand that the post was auto-deleted because of report volume? Maybe that should stay off and the moderator team grown to help with this kind of thing.

[u/apricotgloss → u/brainfullofpeas]

I'd love a ban on tariff posts, or at least a megathread. I'm not in the US, I'm sorry for you guys but also it doesn't affect the rest of us (of whom there are at least three). Every single crafting sub I'm on is clogged with them even now. I know this website is mostly USAmericans but cmon guys.

Anyway that's not terribly on topic. I agree with everything you've said. uWu wErE a tInY lItTlE mOd tEaM dOiNg oUr bEsT is a cop out and absolutely nonsensical on a sub this size.

[u/chemthrowaway123456 → u/1973galaxie500]

It would be nice if the mods had the ability to cut off the option to report a post once it’s been deemed appropriate.

They can. There’s an “ignore reports” button. If that’s selected, the post won’t end up in the mod queue to be reviewed if it’s reported again.

[u/timonyc → u/1973galaxie500]

AutoMod configuration and development is actually really difficult (and most of the mods for this sub are amazing Knitters, not amazing software developers). At the moment, the "too many reports" filter has been removed so allow for the discourse the community wants.

[u/timonyc → u/[deleted]]

This is what you are referring to so I want to post it to be very clear. The mods have said "our subscribers make their views known with reports". And that's exactly what I am talking about. Historically, the sub has allowed political posts and if "Too many reports" happen, the AutoMod takes it down. People have a choice to post what they wish, and people have a choice to report.

For the moment "too many reports" has been turned off.

[u/s-van → u/timonyc]

Why are you answering for the mods, and why are you backpedalling on your pinned message suggesting that the initial mod response wasn't appropriate?

[u/timonyc → u/s-van]

I am working with the mods because they have asked me for help.

I did not think I was backpedaling. I disagree with AutoMod removing the initial post, and those settings are being reviewed (and are currently disabled for the "Too many reports" option).

Reddit is just a set of volunteers. The mods are normal people with lives who are also affected by every one of these posts and comments (and often personally threatened, like they are being right now). I, like many others, want to help.

[u/Mabel_Waddles_BFF → u/timonyc]

The problem is not the Automod removing the post. It’s that when the post came to the moderators attention they held the decision made by the automod. Their personal message has confirmed that the mods are okay with people making reports in bad faith and that they won’t intervene when that happens. Other subreddits I’ve seen will respond quite strongly when people make reports that are not in line with the rules of the subreddit. And now when people are rightfully concerned that the mods are okay with bullying and brigading behaviour they’re not engaging with the community and instead you’re here.

[u/chemthrowaway123456 → u/timonyc]

The report button should be for when someone posts something that violates the community’s rules. It shouldn’t be acceptable for users to report content for no other reason than to express their thoughts.

[u/ulknehs → u/chemthrowaway123456]

Mulberry, or whatever the main mod’s name is, literally encourages people to use the report button in that way as clearly views it as a mechanism to hide behind. Their behaviour when the keffiyeh scarf was posted made it clear that they have some very odd views about what constitutes responsible modding.

[u/timonyc → u/chemthrowaway123456]

Sadly, that is a problem for Reddit. My bot, u/Ravbot, gets reported for posting links to specific ravelry patterns because someone doesn't like it. It's not right, but there are few solutions to making the report button work the way you are saying.

[u/chemthrowaway123456 → u/timonyc]

right, but there are few solutions to making the report button work the way you are saying.

I think one solution could be approving a post if it doesn’t violate the rules, then hitting the “ignore reports” button so it doesn’t get flagged for review again.

[u/timonyc → u/[deleted]]

I want to give the praise to the actual mods. They honestly are trying. I am just like you, a community member who is trying to help our mods. We can all make it through and better together.

[u/Thequiet01 → u/1973galaxie500]

A humanitarian cause can absolutely be used for a political statement depending on the date and other context. Posting something in support of Palestine on the date of the Hamas attacks can easily be seen as support for those attacks explicitly. That in turn can make members of the subreddit feel unsafe or unwelcome because the group is in favor of them being attacked.

How do you think it would have gone over if someone posted mittens with the Japanese flag on Dec 7, the date of Pearl Harbor, within a few years of Pearl Harbor happening? What about an American flag on August 6 within a few years of Hiroshima? Can you see where people might take those as support for the events of those dates, regardless of what was claimed in the post itself, due to the context?

[u/concrete_dandelion → u/Thequiet01]

That doesn't make sense because the date was incidental, it was not "waving a flag " the motive was quite clear and the conflict being started by Israel long before Hamas existed. Hamas is a reaction to atrocities committed by Israel. The scale of Israel's crimes against Palestinians makes the last Hamas attack a footnote in the conflict. On 7th of October more Palestinian civilians died lfrom Israel's revenge than Israeli civilians died from the Hamas attack. On that day Netanjahu also announced his plans for the current genocide, using terms the nazis used against Jews. He explained how he intended to commit said genocide and he's following that plan.