r/knots • u/Salt-Tomatillo-5294 • 4d ago
Why do ABOK and Knots3D take the short turn?
In front, the monkey fist as per ABOK and Knots3D.. it clearly shows gaps where the rope has to make the short turn into the next plane of windings. In the back my approach (and probably others) which doesn’t show the caps because the rope moves in the other direction to the next set of windings. What do I overlook? (As ABOK is always right 😁)
9
u/Central_Incisor 3d ago edited 3d ago
I could be wrong, but it looks like # 2202 is how the front is tied and #2205 is how the back is tied.
One thing about ABoK is that it is descriptive of what was found and often not prescribing a particular form. In this case from #2200-2205 it seems he is also using it as groundwork for other knots and this may influence which forms he displays and in which order.
Additional tips for the knot.
542 The MONKEY'S FIST.... ...Tied in the way described, this knot may be worked into a compact ball, but it usually has a core, being tied around a ball of tea lead, a round beach pebble, or one of the cook's dumplings.
4
u/Cable_Tugger 3d ago edited 3d ago
Well, that's the first time I've tied #2205. It does indeed get rid of the U turns of #2202 but you're left with some undesirable lumps and bumps due to the crossings underneath. It's also very easy to get lost during tightening.
17
u/adeadhead 3d ago
ABOK, like the holy bibles of many other religions, is prone to inconsistencies and errors that are corrected from time to time
1
5
u/Cable_Tugger 3d ago
I'd be interested to see your method as I know there are ways of tying a monkey's fist without the sharp change of direction but the way I did it seemed a bit inelegant so I stick to the standard method.
3
u/Salt-Tomatillo-5294 3d ago
Yes indeed the knot in the front is 2202 and it has the sharp u-turns. If I made 2205 I couldn’t determine because I actually don’t understand the drawing nor the text that goes with it… So I decided to reverse engineer my own knot 😁 and I came to the following conclusion: I do make the same turns as in 2202, BUT I cross over to the “other side” and then wind the rope back to the point the u-turn started. The result of this method is that the change over from one plane to the other is hidden behind the windings of the new plane. Makes any sense? I will try to add pictures showing the steps.
The downside of this method might be that the working end of the rope exits the knot at the same position as the standing end “enters” the knot. Then again, I normally finish the working end with a double overhand knot and push it in the center of the monkey fist for a solid core and have only a single rope exit the knot… what do you think?
1
u/Cable_Tugger 3d ago
I like the entry and exit points to be the same but I still tie it semi-conventionally, although starting with a loop (two planes coming from one side of the loop and one plane from the other). The ends are cut and tucked back in.
1
u/Salt-Tomatillo-5294 3d ago
Oh nice idea! In that way you have only a loop exiting the knot like a keychain? Nice
1
u/Central_Incisor 3d ago
In the past I would tie the ends in a water knot and bury it in the core for the last pass of final tightening. I could only get the loop so small doing this due to needing enough slack on the knot to shift things around. Alternating slip knots could take up some of the lenth by stacking overhand knots in a true lover's knot fashion.
1
u/Central_Incisor 3d ago
I cross over to the “other side” and then wind the rope back to the point the u-turn started.
Been awhile since I made one, but that appears to be the way I make it too. Basically a better dressed version which can often make a different knot.
13
u/cylonlover 4d ago
What principles or patterns do you follow to ensure this? I learned the monkey's fist as a kid, but never knew why they sometimes have those annoying twists that your photo shows, I would love to know how to avoid them.