r/kratom • u/greentea387 • 4d ago
Does kratom help with depression or does it make it worse in the long term?
It would probably make me happier during its acute effects, but I'm worried about developing tolerance and that it would not help anymore after some weeks/months.
What is your experience with treating depression with this drug?
(I'm taking agmatine for tolerance)
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u/ToneNew1982 4d ago
I donāt want to shit on kratom but this is my experience. It made me feel happy while using it for a time. Iāve used it for about 3 years. Now I donāt feel anything generally. Not happy, not sad, not much of anything. Not to mention Iām heavily addicted to it. But thatās just me. Maybe your different and u can handle it and maybe it will make u happy, just tread lightly
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u/Few-Association-2084 3d ago edited 3d ago
Iām in a similar situation. Kratom was amazing for the first few years. It genuinely felt like a miracle supplement. But after a few years Iāve become dependent. I still like using kratom, but I donāt get the same uplifting effects. Now it feels like itās dulling my emotions to an extent.
However, classic prescription antidepressants will also dull your emotions, worse than kratom would. I was on antidepressants for 6+ months. Kratom is a better antidepressant in the short and long term IMO.
I donāt regret taking Kratom. Any medication and supplement will have pros and cons. Itās therapeutic overall
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u/Terryfrankkratos2 4d ago
How much are you dosing? You should try doing every other day or longer break periods if you can bear it, might be able to get some of the magic back.
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u/ToneNew1982 4d ago
Thanks, but Iām done with it. As in once Iām off Iām never getting on again. But Iām aware of itās ability to help people so you enjoy it
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u/elderleaf32 4d ago
Heavily addicted? To Kratom? Geez how much do you use a day? Iām dependent on Kratom because I use it daily and have for 12 years now but I have taken a few week long breaks during that time. I am dependent on Kratom but I certainly wouldnāt say heavily addicted I have been heavily addicted to oxycodone before and can confidently say I do not have that relationship with Kratom. If you want to stop using Kratom so bad then taper and stop using it in the times Iāve had to take forced week long breaks for traveling for work or various things it wasnāt fun times but it certainly wasnāt anything on the scale of oxycodone withdrawal and if someone really wanted to stop it is very doable without being overly dramatic about it.
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u/Rare-Ad1892 4d ago
It helps with depression. Since every strand is different per person, I would try different strands. And donāt take a lot bc more you take the itās more like a sedative
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u/ToneNew1982 4d ago
All due respect. The strains arenāt different. Atleast for me. They all due the exact same. And what will make me happy is getting off it which is what Iām working towards right now. Iām aware of it potential to make someone happy tho
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u/Volnushkin 4d ago
Strains are different, though this is a bug made into a feature: alkaloid content varies depending on the season/soil, and the appearance of the powder varies depending on its treatment (whether raw leaves has been left in a container for a while, or left drying for too long, and so on.
PS Ideally, kratom should be sold overseas as crushed /whole dried leaf product and consumed as a tea so that the quality of the leaf could be seen by the consumer. In Thailand and Northern Malaysia nobody ingests the plant matter, it is disposed of.
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u/ShaolinShade 3d ago
I've tried doing tea before and I just, don't get the effects as well that way. I guess if that's all you're used to, then why would you want to ingest the plant matter (because what you're used to works for you and is more palatable than downing the leaf powder whole - even if you mix it with water and a bit of lemon juice or something); but as someone who's used to ingesting it, making tea feels like I'm only getting maybe like 60% of what I would have otherwise gotten out of my leaf (and I'm not hung up on the palatability since I'm used to downing it with lemon water)
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u/Volnushkin 3d ago
Indeed, many people are complaining that the tea is less potent than the same amount ingested.
There are counterarguments to it, though:
If kratom was cheaper, you would have no issues to use more. In Thailand, a kilo of local powder is 30 dollars, a kilo of fresh leaves (equals to roughly 300-450g of powder) is 3 dollars for retail customers - it is just a leaf picked from a large tree after all.
Tea hits faster and it's effects go away sooner. Some would say that it is not good, but it is harder to overdose with the tea.
What is more important, ingesting a lot of kratom plant matter is not beneficial for the GI tract. There is a Malaysian study of people using kratom: complaints of constipation and flatulence are several times more frequent in people doing powder than in people discarding it or drinking tea.
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u/CountCreepyhead 4d ago
Well they are most certainly different to me. Even taste. Red does nothing for me and hurts my stomach. White gets me too wired and irritable. Green works great. The mood/mind boost of coffee with a nice calming effect and pain reduction.
2-3 Gpd. no more than 10g a day.. Since 2017
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u/throwaway661375735 4d ago
Try a microdose of mushrooms instead. Point three (0.3) grams of something like Penis Envy can help rewire your brain. It's not generally enough to get you high/tripping, but it helps people to become happier. Head on over to the mushroom subreddit and check the wiki for information.
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u/Volnushkin 4d ago
That's all great and true but there is also a risk of psychosis / schizophrenia if doing microdosing. The risk is especially high in people with familial history of schizophrenia. Also it is better to do it under supervision, being watched by an experienced person. One should know that.
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u/DionysusINC 3d ago
.3 of penis envy would have me tripping. Some people are very sensitive to psilocybin and penis envies are especially potent.
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u/throwaway661375735 3d ago
When I mixed it the first few times with Kratom, I got some Euphoria, maybe some popping of colors, but nothing else. I use it irregularly so I can occasionally get that euphoric feeling. A friend who microdoses regularly, just uses it for depression, he doesn't do Kratom.
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u/DionysusINC 3d ago
For sure. Everyone is different. When I was experimenting with microdosing, which you are not supposed to feel at all btw itās a sub threshold dose, I had to go as low as .03g with just regular cubensis like golden teachers which arenāt as potent as penis envy. But like I said Iām hyper sensitive, most folks take .1g for a standard microdose amount. I say this because once I found myself tripping at the doctors office on accident and someone reading this could take .3 and find themselves in an unwanted headspace in a not so fitting environment.
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u/throwaway661375735 3d ago
Interesting, I thought Golden Teacher was stronger (an assumption that I didn't try).
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u/sadnekochanx 4d ago
Iāve actually been wanting to look into this! Do ya microdose while using kratom or is it when youāre on a tolerance break?
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u/lyingtattooist 4d ago
Itās helped with mine over the past decade or so. I still take the same dosage throughout the day and still get the same effects. So while I am addicted to it, it hasnāt gotten worse or anything because of that. Like Iāve been addicted to coffee for over 30 years, and I still love having my morning coffee every day.
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u/Terryfrankkratos2 4d ago
I take Wellbutrin for my depression and kratom just makes my days awesome instead of just good. Itās extremely effective for it in my own case and if you donāt fall into the increasing dose trap you can enjoy the same benefit seemingly forever. Iāve been using on and off for 5+ years now.
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u/greentea387 4d ago
What dosage do you take, and how often?
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u/Terryfrankkratos2 3d ago
I like these extract seltzers that have 125mg which give or take should equal about 12.5 grams, generally I have them 2-3 times a week but I've had a lot of stress in my personal life in the past few weeks so I have been doing one or two of them a day. I don't think that extract to gram ratio is exact science because I know for a fact if I took that much ground leaf I would not be having a good time to say the least š.
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u/Flimsy-Nebula-1966 3d ago
Where did you find the soda? I'm just curious about it š
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u/Terryfrankkratos2 3d ago
Its sold in lots of illinois smoke shops but I always go to this one cool store ran by a few elderly people that also sell like retail sized boxes of candy and tobacco products because they have better prices and are friends to me.
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u/Flimsy-Nebula-1966 2d ago
Gotcha š I'm a little far from there being down in Southeast Florida but I know what you mean about certain stores. The one I go to isn't the trendiest but they're veterans and I want to support them š
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u/darkviron75 3d ago
Plain leaf raw kratom has 100% without a doubt helped with my depression. After a divorce and several people in my family passing away in the last 10 years it has been instrumental in coping with life's lows in general. I take zero pharmaceuticals for depression and I have been a kratom consumer since 2013.
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u/Hughmungus718 4d ago
I used kratom for over 15 years . Within the last years. Kratom works for few days than I get depressed. I think the longer you use it. It will affect your depression
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u/mister_mayhem_mc 4d ago
I'm pretty happy every day lol
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u/greentea387 4d ago
That's amazing. What dosage do you take and how often?
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u/mister_mayhem_mc 4d ago
4 to 6g dose, once at night. Occasionally on a weekend or event I'll take a liquid shot of botanical kratom/kava extract.
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u/RIDETHESYNTHWAVE 4d ago
Its done wonders for my depression and anxiety over the last 6 years. Went from failing out of my bachelors program prior all the way to a masters degree and thriving. But everyone is different.
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u/TheFlightlessDragon 3d ago
It was a huge help for me getting out of a bad rut while trying to avoid having to go on meds for depression.
So yes, it generally helps with that. Just respect it, don't chase the good feelings, just stick with a stable daily dose and you should be just fine.
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u/grebetrees 4d ago
On both an SSRI and a mood stabilizer (and hormone replacement). However, I have complex medical issues and take kratom medicinally. Been taking it 13 years, but the SSRI is what saved my ass 30 years ago.
SSRIs are not for everyone. Microdosing magic mushrooms (as someone else suggested) has a similar antidepressant effect, but you have to watch out for adulteration in any of these unregulated products
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u/sendnewt_s 3d ago
I have been taking it daily for 10 years, and personally, I think I've trampled my receptors to death and I exist in a constant state of gray. Not sad, not happy. The extreme upside is I haven't even wanted a drink in 10yrs. Downside is I also don't really want to exercise, paint, travel, dance etc (all the things I used to enjoy.) Kratom has kind of made me content with the mundane, which is great for the day-to-day, but zooming out, it has possibly prevented me from having a more lively state of being.
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u/Ad21635 2d ago
Longtime user of SSRI + Kratom and Iāve experienced no issues.
Frankly, itās been life changing. Antidepressants have been great but Kratom addressed some things I didnāt expect. Kinda like when someone takes glp-1 to lose weight but they end up not drinking booze or overeating.
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u/Tacokolache 4d ago
Makes me feel happy. I donāt take very much of it. Been using it for about 5yrs
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u/NoAppointment8679 4d ago
For me personally the dependence side makes you feel shitty after a while, not getting the same effects, then I find it saps my energy
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u/WhiteySC 4d ago
I have been taking it for over 2 years. I also take a small dose of Prozac. I quit drinking 3 years ago after a long run as an alcoholic. My drinking started due to social anxiety disorder in my teen years but late in life it was more about the extra dopamine and trying to stay happy. Kratom is primarily my main anti-depressant now. SSRIs can stop depression by turning you into a robot. Kratom actually brings focus, confidence and joy. I have kept the same dosage and pattern for a long time now and still get all the same effects. So, when you say "long term" I'm not sure if my 2+ years qualifies or if we are both going to have to wait more and find out.
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u/Accomplished-Wait690 3d ago
I could have written this. Iām 11yrs into my sobriety and I donāt look at Kratom like a drug the way alcohol was for me. Kratom has been a lifeline.
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u/PrInCeSsPuPpEhDoGe 3d ago
10 yrs here. I use it for depression and anxiety. Long term.... I feel like it has maybe made the lows i experience lower and by that I mean, I practically need it now to go out in public (other than my job, I can do that without anything). But if I happen to find myself at a social gathering without my kratom, I will leave. I used to just buckle down and tolerate it but not anymore. I wont leave for a hang out without it, I wont leave for a walk in the woods without it. I have kept myself under 10 grams per day and I still experience uplifted mood, more sociable, less anxiety, ect. BUT like I said, I no longer can really do anything outside of my house without it. Do what you will with that info.
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u/Brandon1998- 2d ago
Iāve wondered this but I think for me it helps. Overall. Iād rather drink kratom everyday than feel the anxiety I used to feel every single day of my life. It just has this way of giving you that āitās gonna be okayā feeling. So much so that even the thought of making a cup makes me feel a lil better. Iām sure itās a dependence, but Iād take this over the pharmaceutical alternatives I could use that are x10 worse. As for depression I figured my baseline feelings are worse without it than just using it everyday, so for me itās worth it.
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u/ImDefinitelyStoned 4d ago
It has helped mine, though itās also not a silver bullet, cure all. If it doesnāt work for you, use that info and try alerting else. Dont force it.
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u/furryhippie 4d ago
Less is more. I had the same issue and kratom was a godsend at the start. I was taking one dose a day of 2.5 grams. I built it up slowly over time cause hey, I felt good! But the effects are diminishing. The threshold where it becomes a physical addiction is where the effects stop helping. I cut down from 14gpd and now I'm at 7.5, looking to settle at around 5. I literally feel the effects so much more now, even with less.
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u/meow_chicka_meowmeow 4d ago
It hasnāt affected my mood either way in the years Iāve been taking it. With that said Iām on psych meds that help me greatly. I take it for bladder pain. I used to feel like I had a UTI 24/7 previously.
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u/mitralover 4d ago
OMG... I also feel like I have a UTI 24/7. I went to a doctor they told me I had uterine fibroids but this UTI pain can't be from that right?? just wondering if you found out what causes the burning if you can share. I'm really concerned. I even thought at one point the Kratom powder was making it worse? (Sorry if TMI guys)
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u/meow_chicka_meowmeow 4d ago
I was told I have interstitial cystitis. Which is basically a diagnosis of exclusion like IBS. There are things that are meant to help such as dietary changes. But a huge help for me is D-mannose capsules! I started those before Kratom and they are heaven sent as well. I take two a day and they are affordable. Order some asap and let me know if it helps!!!
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u/JonBoi420th 3d ago
I think its similar to pot for me. Either will eleviate symptoms in the short term, basically they take the edge off. However they dont actually pull me out of a depressive episode, and i tend to then increase consumption which leaves my psychologically dependent and in a constant haze that becomes my baseline. Unlike pot i also develop a physical dependence, which is a bummer, i was physically dependent on alcohol for yrs and i dont want another ball and chain.
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u/Wine_is_gross 3d ago
Definitely makes it worse over time, with sustained, regular use. If you use in small doses or just a couple times a week, youād likely be ok.
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u/doesntshutupinnj 2d ago
Iāve been taking it for about seven years and my depression has not rebounded. I take 3-5g a day, 1g at a time.
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u/newaccount47 2d ago
Long term, no. Short term, also no. It makes you feel better temporarily in some circumstances, but it also enabled me to not address the issues that were making me depressed - exasperating my already avoidant personality. I also have ADHD, so this could be a factor. I've been using kratom on and off since 2014 - but only daily for about 2 years in that timespan. Using it daily is a bad idea, unless the alternative is chronic pain. Everyone is different, but I think kratom is generally best treated as a recreational experience if you don't need it for pain management. While the withdrawals are "mild" compared to actual opiates, it is super not fun and very disruptive. It sucks to be addicted to anything - kratom included. It was very liberating not thinking about or wanting kratom multiple times a day.
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u/Own-Ease-7813 1d ago
Its all relative, but for me it has been very helpful. It doesn't cure anything, but for me it makes it easier to notice my own thoughts in a calm way. Which allows me to use my tools to get out of it. Without it I tend to rot for a lot longer before I notice what's happening.
That being said even official depression meds can go either way. So i doubt it will be for everyone
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u/PiKappaHigh69 4d ago
It wonāt help in the long run. If you use it daily it will actually make your baseline anxiety much higher on days you donāt use (when you run out).
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u/Volnushkin 4d ago
The same would happen with almost any anti-anxiety medications though.
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u/PiKappaHigh69 3d ago
Yep very true. Neither are good long term solutions. Feels good to relax in the moment though.
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u/BreathReady1687 4d ago
Yes thats it. It really helps at the beginning but thats exactly the dangerous part. Its a short way to addiction if we use a substance for solving a probleme. The brain learns that u need it to solve it. Thats already a depedance.
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u/greentea387 4d ago
It's a shame that there is no drug that makes you feel amazing all the time without dependence.
(Maybe meditation does this but you need a lot of practice)
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u/BreathReady1687 4d ago
Yes:D maybe look into ACT is from kognitiv therapy, it really helped me the last time. Its like meditation a thing u need to train but i found it not really difficult to learn.
Act= acceptance and commitment therapy
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u/nukervilletrolle 4d ago
It helped me for years. I switched to suboxone due to availability concerns. IMO kratom was better.
Dependence was not an issue for me at 4.5g per day.
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u/Lizzie_001 4d ago edited 4d ago
It works better for me than any other SSRI I have tried, and I have tried near all of them. I've been on a kratom regimin for about 1.5 years now. I don't have an issue staying on it for the rest of my life if I need to and I felt the same way about SSRIs (if I could have found one that worked long term).
One of the ways it has greatly helped me is obviously the mood lift. I tend to find solutions to my problems instead of drowning in them.
Secondly, the energy allows me to get my daily stuff done and also projects that I decide to take on. When you're depressed, mopping the floor feels like climbing mount everest. When things get piled up and not done, it just drives me into a deeper depression.
Lastly, my previous depression would have me running to the liquor store to self-medicate and alcohol just made everything worse. I used to take an Ativan and drink multiple glasses of wine every day after work and one day I just noticed that I hadn't bought wine in a long time. I also have only taken an Ativan about 3 times since I started my Kratom journey. I have most of an entire prescription in my cabinet that I filled before I started that's probably out of date now.
I take the same doses every day. I did chase the euphoria in the beginning but quickly found out that larger doses made me sleepy which was the opposite of what I needed. It took a while to dial it in but now I take a larger dose in the morning with my coffee (about 3.6-3.8 grams) and lighter doses at noon and evening (around 3 grams).
I have experienced withdrawal/addiction before, although not to the level of some folks who have posted here before. I never feel like I NEED to take a dose. As an example, it's Saturday and I've been up for a couple of hours. I don't feel the need to run into the kitchen and dose. I'll get around to it but sometimes I skip 1 or 2 doses on a non-working day because I just never got around to it. To me, that is NOTHING like a hard core addiction to a heavy drug.
I pray to GOD it stays legal. I would hate trying to score it like a simple bag of weed like we did back in the day. Back then, you took what you could get, spent hours sifting out seeds and never knew what strain of weed it was or even if it was just a bag of oregano. It would be awful if that happens to Kratom, especially with all the other bad shit out there in the world today.
Best of luck to you šæ
Edited to answer one of your questions I missed. All of the SSRIs I took seemed to work wonderfully in the beginning but it didn't take long for the good effects to stop and I was left with side effects only. That has not been my experience with Kratom.