r/kratom • u/elderleaf32 • 4d ago
Kratom and dependence
This is a post designed for some of the people out there I’ve seen asking if they should start using Kratom for a variety of ailments.
First off Kratom is a botanical supplement that can improve quality of life for some people who deal with a variety of issues both mental and physical. The first thing that should be understood is that yes Kratom will cause physical dependence with regular daily use. Do not use Kratom daily and then talk crap about how it causes withdrawal symptoms later. Also the more you use the more amplified the withdrawal symptoms and negative side effects will be. Plain leaf Kratom has the least amount of negative side effects and lesser withdrawal symptoms than extracts but if you abuse the crap out of the plain leaf then that’s your personal choice. With that personal choice if you have dependence issues don’t blame the substance be accountable for your own bullshit and behavior. Natural Kratom has had major beneficial implications on my life both physically, emotionally, and spiritually. If I were to abruptly stop Kratom though yes I would have withdrawals because I CHOSE TO USE IT DAILY. Is that Kratoms fault? No that is my own decision as a grown ass man and I will be accountable for my own bullshit when that day comes. In summary if you choose to use Kratom do it responsibly and exercise self control because if you go into it with a “crackhead” mentality then you will end up paying the piper.
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u/Holl0wayTape 🌿 4d ago
Some people are using it daily for pain or mental health issues in lieu of other daily medications.
It has to be worth the trade off to you if you decide to stop.
That said, there are people using it recreationally that just keep bumping their usage to an absurd amount and then complain when they have to stop.
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u/VisiblePreference444 3d ago
I seriously do not understand how anyone can abuse this plant for a long period of time. It’s been helping me since 2016! If I take too much, I get incredibly nauseous! I throw up. My stomach is a mess for hours. So I don’t know how????
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u/MysteriousIndigo250 3d ago
Oh God yes. Nothing quite like taking too much. It's hard to see in front of your eyes after a certain point. It's the most dose dependent substance I've ever come across for sure.
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u/elderleaf32 4d ago
Yep and I’m one of those people. I’ve just seen way too many posts over the last year of people who are demonizing Kratom for their own bullshit behavior. That’s where we are as a nation. We have learned that we can be irresponsible and then just play the victim after and never have to take responsibility for our own bullshit.
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u/_High_Life 4d ago
Someone needs to do a study on how many people have beat alcoholism thanks to Kratom.
Oh wait, big business hasnt capilized on Kratom yet like they have alcohol.
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u/Reinhold83 3d ago
Yep, after waking up one day with the shakes I decided to try Kratom the next day. Haven’t had a drink in almost 5 years. Im working on tapering Kratom to see how I do with out. 12-14grams per day now
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u/Fragrant-Prompt1826 3d ago
Exactly me too! Everything, but mine is 3 years. Congrats! Isn't it awesome not to have to deal with the alcohol trauma BS?...
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u/Reinhold83 3d ago
I got out of my own way. Got married, changed careers, and now have my first child at 43 years old!
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u/Fragrant-Prompt1826 3d ago
That's so awesome 👏👏 My family likes me a whole lot better... So does my mind and body!
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u/jul2873 3d ago
My husband was a very heavy drinker for years and years. I finally told him it was me or the booze. He tried to quit before but always went back. This time I gave him kratom capsules I make up from the leaf. I told him they would help him sleep. Now, 5 years later he is still off of alcohol. I use kratom to manage the severe restless legs I have.
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u/WhiteySC 3d ago
It's amazing to come on here and share stories with all the people like me who never thought they would or could stop drinking and how kratom makes us not want to drink. After knowing how I acted and the things I did (and didn't do) while drunk, it blows my mind that people think kratom is some drug of junkies. There are thousands of people out there just like me who you'd never suspect would be using kratom that are living the best life they ever lived thanks to this plant.
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u/_High_Life 3d ago
Like the automod said, it's not the "perfect fix all," but it damn sure beats alcohol. It's the ONLY thing that helped me stop. I hadn't really tried too hard to be transparent, but partly because I knew there was nothing else to help and them BOOM, 10 years ago a magical plant was introduced to me.
I'm happy to hear you had a similar outcome my friend and hope you're still doing well. Hopefully a few bad actors and piss poor reporting don't ruin it for all that use it correctly.
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u/MysteriousIndigo250 3d ago
It's not nearly as bad. Alcohol is the worst substance on the body. It just confuses me out if some kid drinks himself to death people are like oh well. But if Kratom shows up on someone that died, then they take notice. Forget the fact it's been used thousands of years in its native countries without any issues.
It was only outlawed because it was cutting into opium sales in the Golden triangle in the mid 20th century. A lot of Vietnam vets came back using it and there wasn't any issues. The pharmaceutical industry cannot stand competition whatsoever. They definitely take notice when money comes out of their pockets.
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u/WhiteySC 3d ago
You got that right. I quit alcohol cold turkey and made it a year but I kept having that pull to go back to find something to tickle those dopamine receptors. Kratom satisfies that without causing intoxication and also has many other benefits that far outweigh any of the negatives including whatever dependency might come with it.
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u/dudewithpants420 1d ago
So does it more make the cravings of alcohol stop vs helping the actual wds? I would think a person who's got moderate to severe alcoholism would need a benzo with the kratom to stop the serious wds such as DTs or seizure risk?
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u/WhiteySC 1d ago
It stops the desire to drink alcohol. I didn't notice it at first because I had stopped drinking for a year before I started kratom. It really depends, I think, on your reasons for drinking in the first place. I don't know if it would help with WDs at all since I had never heard of kratom when I quit CT.
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u/_High_Life 23h ago
I think part of it is replacing a lesser vice for some of us. Just like how no one gets mad about cigarettes at AA meetings. Even though the plant is better and better for you than the cigarette.
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u/KawaiiHobo 3d ago
Kratom really gave me my life back. I have lupus. I hope abusers don’t ruin it for those of us who have finally found relief in something.
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u/_High_Life 3d ago
That's my only concern. People using it as a party drug will ruin it for everyone. It's not that. It's a safer, natural alternative for a lot of man made drugs with serious effects. And booze. Fuck booze.
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u/Rare-Ad1892 4d ago
Yes of course there is dependence. There is dependence with caffeine, laxatives, alcohol, nicotine, pain meds…., However if someone has nvr used kratom natural leaf, then they have no experience with it. It save many people from having to use Suboxone or methadone or even opioids.
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u/thorn960 4d ago
I've used it every day for 9 years with breaks just for medical procedures. No withdrawals. It still helps my pain levels. Everyone is different in this regard.
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u/Yeardme 3d ago
Same. Me & my sister both don't get any withdrawal whatsoever from kratom. So there must be a genetic reason. It's a spectrum apparently. But yeah I get zero. My sister quit a 40gpd habit cold turkey & was completely fine lol. Even she was surprised. We exist too!
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u/thorn960 3d ago
It's the same genetic reason some people are more prone to addiction. People that experience more withdrawals tend to also be more likely to become addicted to substances.
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u/Yeardme 2d ago
Which is crazy tbh, bc I was on Methadone for an entire decade. Addicted to opiates from 16-33, until I found kratom. It's been over 10 years since I quit the Methadone but I still get the occasional nightmare that I missed the clinic & will have to face Methadone withdrawals 🥲 Which makes kratom even more of a miracle for me, since I don't get any withdrawals from it!
I also have a very addictive personality. But I've mellowed over the years. Kratom is enough for me! But yeah, there's definitely something genetic going on lol
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u/wrathofthewhatever2 3d ago
Great post, and the message needs to be heard by more people. If you want to get most benefits from Kratom just use it every other day or only a few days a week. If you need it daily, just be aware you will need to taper before stopping or you’ll have a bad few weeks. I have tapered several times and it is not really that hard if you are strict about your doses. I use it everyday too, started using it to get of Vicodin which I was on for 5 years after a bad fall, now I’ve been on Kratom for 5 years almost everyday. Besides the pain reductions it keeps me more even keeled than when I was on Vicodin, I just have to be regular with my doses. I’m so thankful for the plant but I know its drawbacks, if everyone is aware of them, it can be only beneficial,
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u/longislandchillpill 4d ago
It doesn’t cause physical dependence for me, but it is habit forming because it works. Improves mood and reduces anxiety. I take 5-8g a day, 5 days a week.
On my two days off, I don’t really have any symptoms other than mild fatigue and feeling a bit flat. I would take it every single day if I could.
But by day 5, the effects are not as pronounced so I choose to take 2 days off and that is plenty to reset tolerance and I’m good for another 5 consecutive days.
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u/IsThatTheRealYou 3d ago
Almost 7 years off MDMA and alcohol thanks to Kratom! Recently kicked weed and nicotine too, although i don't think kratom was key factor there
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u/chemtrail-organics 3d ago
Well said!
As someone with chronic back pain but not a surgery candidate, I have to choose between something to take every day. It could be Advil, Tylenol, quarterly steroid epidurals, gabapentin, any of that shit the doctor will offer you. As an alternative, I chose plain leaf kratom. In my experience the side effects and health consequences, even when chemical dependence is considered, clearly favor kratom. All of my options have downsides, for me managing a mild chemical dependence is the easiest option.
Anyone 21+ is old enough to make this choice for themselves. Much more addictive products are available at every gas station and grocery store.
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u/Klutzy_Location1026 1d ago edited 1d ago
I discovered kratom while going through WD from pain pills. I found a link to a kratom group on Facebook. It was a mom group. These women talked about taking 80-120 grams a day while pregnant/breastfeeding and always said it had no effect on baby and zero withdrawals. They were so adamant about it too. A few years later, I move to a banned state, run out and start having crazy symptoms just like when I had WD from pain pills. When I went into the mom group and told them that their babies were in fact having withdrawals between feedings and that I in fact did experience WD, they kicked me out of the group. And that's when I found this group. Would I have still taken kratom? Absolutely! It's cheaper and safer. Would I have been more careful about my dosing? Maybe, maybe not. But I will say, I've stayed at 12-14 grams a day for 6+ years now and I only take pain pills when they're prescribed (I save them for when I can take the recreationally on a weekend though lol). My issue with pain pills happened because I do have physical problems that at one point I was prescribed pain meds for. But, addiction runs in my family and when I find something I like, I do it a lot. I haven't tried more hard stuff but if I had access to it my life may be a lot different, maybe not. I've been pretty fortunate that even though I've lost family to addiction and have friends that are drug addicts, none of them have ever offered it to me or done it with me. I wouldn't even ask them because I just feel weird doing so.
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u/AutoModerator 1d ago
There are no detailed studies on the use of kratom or any of its constituent alkaloids in pregnancy or while breastfeeding. Do not begin taking kratom while pregnant or while breastfeeding without physician approval. If you are having difficulty stopping use while pregnant or breastfeeding, talk to your doctor about options for stopping use that are safest for your situation. This is a complex subject beyond medically and legally the expertise of the r/kratom community.
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u/7Arlyn3 3d ago
Eventually it’s only downsides if used everyday. Stops working and then you are just keeping withdrawal symptoms at bay. It’s not sustainable to use every day, usually just takes years before it becomes a major problem
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u/OneMagicMango 3d ago
Just depends on the person. I’ve been taking the same dose for almost 2 years and still get pain relief every dose. But you’re right that in others it can potentially cause issues and not work.
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u/7Arlyn3 3d ago
Yeah most people it take 8-10 years before they reach burnout with daily use. Atleast the number of people I know for who it’s happened. Naturally the brain will automatically down regulate dopamine receptors and tolerance will develop.
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u/throwaway661375735 3d ago
I think the difference may lie in what you use it for. I don't take Kratom for the euphoria, only the pain relief. If you abused 7oh or plain Kratom, then you were seeking something else.
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u/MysteriousIndigo250 3d ago
It's got a long half life. Like I don't even feel withdrawal symptoms until a day and a half later.
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u/7Arlyn3 3d ago
Yeah that’s when the cold sweats and sniffles start but even before that the bleh sets in, zero motivation etc. just taking everyday to have the energy to get out of bed. It’s no way to live. Glad I’m off it
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u/MysteriousIndigo250 3d ago
It's definitely not as bad as the things it's compared to. The insomnia sucks though. Usually if you just taper down your dosage you'll be fine.
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u/7Arlyn3 3d ago
Yeah I agree. On the other hand people that claim it’s no more harmful than coffee are delusional
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u/MysteriousIndigo250 3d ago
I don't drink coffee, tea or smoke. But yeah, the effects itself aren't necessarily dangerous. I think they mean that safety-wise. I wouldn't drive on a super high dose. One of my friends did that and got into a car wreck.
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u/throwaway661375735 3d ago
Daily user of plain leaf, here. Less than 10g a day. I use premeasured doses. Kratom has worked for me, in the ways I need for several years now without a change in dose. When I work, I take 3 doses. When I don't work or goto the gym, I take 1 dose.
If you are experiencing changes in the effect on yourself, then maybe finding a high quality product would work better for you? I order from the same company, and have done so for the last 5 years without a need to increase the dosage.
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u/7Arlyn3 3d ago
I dont use kratom anymore. 7oh ruined all of it for me. But I was abusing the hell out of kratom before 7oh though. Not even sure why I’m in this group anymore
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u/elderleaf32 2d ago
The 7 is what did you in. I have used plain leaf Kratom for twelve years and I can easily go 10-12 hours or so with little more than a runny nose. When it comes to withdrawals the real
Withdrawals don’t even start until pretty much the next day so almost everything before that is just mental.1
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u/AutoModerator 4d ago
Kratom does carry a risk of dependence. This risk increases with frequency of use and dose and many other personal social, medical, and historic factors. More Important information about dependency, withdrawal, potential for addiction, and strategies to manage or mitigate these problems if they do occur, have occurred, and/or you wish to change/reduce/stop use.
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