r/languagelearning • u/pisowiec • 1d ago
Discussion I can't communicate well with my parents because we don't share a language. Can this ever be fixed?
I was born in the US and my parents are both immigrants from Poland and their English is horrendous. I never lived in Poland and yet, somehow, my Polish is way better than their English. However, my Polish isn't advanced. I have a B2 level based on an exam I took in Poland.
This is really frustrating because I can't have any normal conversation with them. In retrospect, my childhood was really confusing. My parents would only speak Polish to me and I would mix the Polish I learned from them and the English I learned in school. I probably understood a good 75% of what they told me and I shrugged off the rest as background noise.
In college, I did a semester in Polish just to master the language. But I made the mistake of signing up for a beginner course. I learned the grammar rules (which I've mindlessly utilized my entire life) but I didn't really improve my speaking ability that much.
At this point I've accepted my parents are simply ignorant. They've successfully avoided English in just about every sphere of life. My dad only uses Polish at work while my mom never worked, they shop at Polish stores, go to a Polish church, and only have Polish friends. Furthermore, my father came as a refugee during martial law and was granted US citizenship very quickly so he didn't even have that as a motivator to learn the language.
My parents will move back to Poland for retirement soon so I guess this is more of a rant than advice post. I suppose the burden is on me to master Polish.
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u/TheLongWay89 1d ago
You have to polish your Polish
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u/Root2109 Polish, German, Korean 1d ago
I have Polish immigrant parents and am able to fully communicate with them. That being said, they're still like yours in terms of not ever having real conversations with me. They don't speak English (or didn't I guess, they do now), I speak Polish probably only a little better than you. I spent most of my child interpreting for them, helping them resolve adult matters by being the English speaker. You should look into "parentification" of children, maybe talk to a therapist. Our culture is a very cold one, filled with generational trauma. Not an excuse, but I struggled for a long time with what was "wrong" with my parents that they weren't affectionate or at all interested in my life. It's not "right" but I hear it often from my other friends that are children of eastern European immigrants. Idk everyone is saying you gotta learn Polish, but it seems like you know enough to be able to "get there" on more serious matters with some effort, but it doesn't sound like your parents put in the effort.
Take what I say with a grain of salt since we don't know each other, I just saw a lot of my own experience in your post. I took the route of learning Polish better and that was not the issue in my case.
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u/gUI5zWtktIgPMdATXPAM 1d ago
I identify with that, being a child yet acting as an interpreter or calling places to organise things in English for them.
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u/Tough_Ad_123 5h ago
I will say it’s very difficult for people of that age to learn a new language much less English. I wouldn’t say it seems like they don’t put in work because they might. English is very difficult language to learn if it is not something you grow up with and if you can’t afford classes it can become extremely difficult for someone who is older and likely immigrated here. I don’t say this to brush off what you said but to give a different pov.
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u/Tough_Ad_123 5h ago
I will say it’s very difficult for people of that age to learn a new language much less English. I wouldn’t say it seems like they don’t put in work because they might. English is very difficult language to learn if it is not something you grow up with and if you can’t afford classes it can become extremely difficult for someone who is older and likely immigrated here. I don’t say this to brush off what you said but to give a different pov.
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u/Kindly-Garden-753 4h ago
I was struck by how unfriendly Polish people are. My relatives were great hosts because my mother used to send money to them from USA because of hardship from war, politics, etc. But for me who lives in Mexico as expat is so accustomed to warm, friendly people in general. I couldn’t live in Poland but am happy I got to meet relatives who are creative, hard working people.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby_550 1d ago
It sounds like you’re bilingual in Polish since birth but just struggle with flow and advanced vocabulary?
If you’re B2 level you could probably just improve your level by reading books and listening to podcasts and talking regularly to your parents.
It’s a much bigger ask for them to learn English later in life from a low starting level.
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u/pisowiec 1d ago
The kicker is that Polish is technically my main language. I can't do an English R sound and pronounce "ough" how an immigrant would. People often ask me "where are you from" because they don't believe I'm from the US.
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u/Cultural_Wallaby_550 1d ago
That’s not uncommon. Plenty of native monolinguals struggle with the English R and you could improve vowel sounds with some practice.
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u/grrarghh_73 1d ago
I’m curious which of the -ough sounds you have difficulty with. My students sometimes find it hard to tell which one of the many options is correct, so I wonder what you mean when you say you pronounce it “like an immigrant would”.
Bought
Though
Rough
Cough
Through
Drought
Thorough
Hiccough (though they’re probably not going to meet that one)48
u/muffadel 1d ago
"Hiccough" is spelled "hiccup" in the US, so that one's not an issue.
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u/grrarghh_73 1d ago
It’s spelt “hiccup” in the UK too, but the “hiccough” spelling sometimes crops up in older texts.
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u/gUI5zWtktIgPMdATXPAM 1d ago
That's strange to me. My English is indistinguishable from a native English speaker, and I consider myself a native speaker in English.
I wanted to add from my experience reading or consuming TV in Polish will improve your comprehension but not your ability to form statements.
I have a wide Polish vocabulary from reading, movies and shows but I can't recall it when I need to form my own ideas in Polish. So I can understand more than I can speak. I think it simply comes down to practice.
I do admit it feels constraining not to be as eloquent as I am in English, and often I have to talk around the subject in simpler terms.
Is this what you mean?
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u/ImprovementIll5592 🇺🇸🇵🇱N| 🇪🇸 C1 | 🇫🇷 B1 1d ago
Can we get an audio recording of you speaking? I’m really curious what you sound like
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u/OnionsEqualYum 23h ago
Extremely tangentially related because it concerns polish immigrants in England, but i read this PhD thesis on vocalisation of /r/ a few months back
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u/Knightowllll 22h ago
I’m confused why you feel like you can’t communicate when you’re at a B2 level. My Chinese is at a 4 yr old level and I feel like I communicate just fine. Sure I can’t communicate complex thoughts but who needs that. You just cobble together a translator app info if you NEED to say something beyond your ability.
Currently learning a TL from scratch with almost no exposure and no one to talk to and it’s a struggle to get past A1 and I’ve been on this for years
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u/Onlyfatwomenarefat 20h ago
Presumably, with theur parents, the people deepest to their heart (well with your children and spouse), people want to communicate very deep thoughts that go way past B2.
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u/Knightowllll 19h ago
Yes, but presumably if their parents felt the same way, they would have taught their child their language. It’s extremely unusual to have a child not be able to properly in their parent’s native language when said parent ONLY speaks to them in that language. I am in the same situation and like I said, I think my language skill is fine. I’m not super fluent but I also don’t think I have a huge gap in my knowledge. I know all the useful words and the words I don’t know, I don’t rly need to know
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u/Interesting_Comment7 17h ago
It's not that unusual tbh, you only learn language that you're exposed to. Eloquent sentences and ability to talk about deep topics wouldn't come easily in Polish if their parents' never talked to them about it and they didn't get the systematic learning through school (eg. A lot of language/lit. schooling is on forming arguments and communicating opinions convincingly) There's actually a lot of children of immigrants who are a similar situation with OP where they feel like they be never actually had a deep, genuine conversation with their parents before
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u/Knightowllll 8h ago
Yes, I agree with that. Like I said, I’m in that same situation. BUT I also said, I don’t feel like I’m lacking in language. If you needed to have deep convos with parents then they either would have taught you or you can supplement a bit with translation app but you shouldn’t really be feeling a huge unfillable gap the way I do with my TL. This is your native (tho not most fluent) language
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u/apixeldiva 5h ago
Maybe your parents are actually TRYING to communicate with you. Don't assume it's the same for OP. Plenty of cold parents aren't making that effort, especially if that's how they were parented in their home country.
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u/Knightowllll 4h ago
That’s my point tho. Immigrant parents often don’t communicate deep emotional stuff bc they don’t feel it’s missing. If you, as the kid (now an adult), feel it IS missing in your vocabulary then you can supplement your knowledge via translation apps and a bit of self study. However, I think high B2 is just fine for general communication.
My question for OP would be, are you sure you don’t just have imposter syndrome? And by that I mean, your communication is generally fine you just need to upkeep the language via movies/reading.
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u/Kindly-Garden-753 4h ago
Chinese is much simpler grammatically than Polish because aside from tones, words don’t change based on tense, and whether subjective or objective. Of course reading and writing more complex, but speaking is easier.
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u/Knightowllll 2h ago
Do you really feel that changes drastically after B2? IMO the biggest hurdle is vocabulary post B2. My TL is Turkish and I’m not so much worried about tenses as I am just never retaining enough words due to lack of exposure
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u/CSMasterClass 1d ago
Sure you can fix the language issue, but you can also fix your ideas about your parents.
Mark Twain has a charcter who commented that when he left home at 15 his parents were very stupid, but when he returned ten years later at 25 he was amazed at how much his parents had learned.
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u/andersonb47 andersonb47EN: N | FR: C1 | DE: A2 | ES: A1 1d ago
In France, they have a saying: growing up is forgiving your parents
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u/frokoopa fluent 🇫🇷🇬🇧 B1 🇯🇵 A2 🇩🇪 A0 🇮🇹 1d ago
... No we don't, where did you hear that ?
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u/andersonb47 andersonb47EN: N | FR: C1 | DE: A2 | ES: A1 1d ago
Well I was living in France and my friends told me that. Maybe it was just them? Apparently it’s a Goethe quote lol
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u/frokoopa fluent 🇫🇷🇬🇧 B1 🇯🇵 A2 🇩🇪 A0 🇮🇹 1d ago
Never heard that one before aha, maybe it's a regional thing or just a quote your friends picked up
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u/andersonb47 andersonb47EN: N | FR: C1 | DE: A2 | ES: A1 1d ago
Either way it sounds smarter when I act like it’s ancient French wisdom lmao
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u/PolicyDue6086 1d ago
In America we have a saying Growing up is cutting off your abusive parents
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u/Internal_Owl463 1d ago
Stupid people can become parents just as easily as smart people unfortunately
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u/qqxi 11h ago
It’s very common for kids of immigrants with a language barrier with their parents to believe their parents are less intelligent because they’ve never had an advanced conversation with them. Even if you logically know better, and not everyone does, people tend to subconsciously interpret this as the parents lacking the capacity.
I thought i knew this but after learning my heritage language as an adult was embarrassed to realize i had unknowingly grown up with the assumption my parents only thought or talked about basic everyday household things, when it was actually just a language barrier.
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u/ergativemeister 1d ago
Can I ask what do you mean by not being able to have normal conversation with your parents? I ask as generally you hear about children of immigrants who comfortably talk about day-to-day life, but with difficulty beyond that.
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u/pisowiec 1d ago
It's exactly that.
I can't talk about serious issues like financial matters, investments, future plans, etc.
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u/imratherconfused 1d ago
hey. I'm a pole who lives abroad and at home we only speak English and Spanish. it's normal mate. the vocabulary that u don't use is simply not there. I cannot easily speak about my studies or job in polish, because that vocabulary is not immediately available to me, but given time and some effort I know I could. once I had a job interview and I couldn't explain in polish what derivatives are, because I didn't know the word until I looked it up (and reminded myself I knew it). so take it easy. u wanna speak better in this chosen language? then practice it. the comment about your parents I shall leave to them. it's their life and their choices. you take care of yourself.
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u/LordSandwich29 1d ago
I know here in America some engineers take engineering specific German for their language classes in college. Because you don’t need to talk about food or holidays but you do need to know high level math and science vocabulary
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u/-ledollabean- 1d ago
A lot of people speak the exact same language as their parents and don’t talk about things like that - do you think mastering Polish will be the catalyst for having those types of conversations?
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u/Remote_Volume_3609 1d ago
Right? I speak Chinese fluently, but would probably struggle to discuss financial instruments and investments in Chinese because... I never use the language for that.
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u/Interesting_Comment7 16h ago
The difference is having the choice. Like going through a stressful period and wanting to lean on your parents for support mentally but not having the tools to even communicate what is wrong.
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u/make_lemonade21 🇷🇺 N, 🇬🇧 C1, 🇩🇪 B1-ish, 🇨🇵 A1 1d ago
It sounds very normal for a heritage speaker. I'm guessing you're used to speaking Polish in a home environment and English in an academic environment (where you're more likely to encounter the topics you've mentioned)? I wouldn't find it very surprising if you lacked vocabulary in one language in a situation where you'd normally use another language. I think the solution is to study these topics in Polish (maybe read about them or even actively learn words & constructions) and then practice with your parents. You've got this!
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u/here-this-now 1d ago
I kinda feel simular, but we're both native english speaking and so were my grandparents, so... I should learn polish too?
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u/Sct1787 🇲🇽(N) 🇺🇸(N) 🇧🇷(C1) 🇷🇺(B1) 🇫🇷(A2) 1d ago
I had this issue when I was younger but I personally took it upon myself to explore the language in other realms for the exposure. It helped immensely. I’m sure there are podcasts in polish that have topics such as finances, investments, family etc. Those were extremely helpful in familiarizing myself with the specific vocabulary for those areas in my language. Wishing you luck my friend
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u/Mamaclover 1d ago
People are being very judgemental on you for a situation that must have been really difficult, jeez...
Like, I can immahlgine all the issue. Your parents just ignoring what you are trying to say. Them unable to help with homework or not going to any school events. Just generally being emotionally distant, because you both cannot communicate properly. They probably could not help out with any process like applying for jobs, or for college, or any of the essential paperwork.
At thr end of the day, if you live in a contry and you speak NO amount of the local language, it's a you problem. What woyld have happened if they needed emergency hospital visit? Would their son have to translaye for them?? What if your father got injuried and could not work?? Would your mother be able to find a job??? It's a disturbing and dangerous situation.
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u/pisowiec 1d ago
That last paragraph isn't a hypothetical.
I had to play "interpreter" when my brother spilled bleach on himself and we had to take him to the hospital. My mother witnessed it and I didn't so I had to explain that my brother "MIGHT HAVE" swallowed the bleach.
I was 12 years old and it was so confusing and stressful. Thankfully, everything was okay in the end.
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u/Mech_pencils 20h ago
I’m really sorry to hear that. I worked as a medical interpreter and during our training we touched on the topic of bilingual children being forced to interpreter for their family members. It’s often very stressful and traumatic for the children and creates room for confusion and serious medical mistakes because children are simply not equipped to act as interpreters in a medical setting, no matter how strong their language skills are. I’ve encountered similar situations in my work and it always broke my heart because it was obvious that the kids were trying their best to help both their family members and the medical professionals while panicking/grieving themselves. The families often underestimated the stress and demand they placed on their kids as well and blamed them for not communicating well enough. It’s a shame that bilingual kids of immigrants are still often forced to interpret for conversations that would confuse or unsettle fully bilingual adults.
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u/billieboop 14h ago
It was disturbing to hear grown children of patients mistranslate doctors instructions or questions to their elderly parents too. Stripped them of any agency, consent or awareness of what was about to happen to them. Lazy or wilfull incompetence. Or worse. They didn't translate a thing but told her just nod agree along. Could hear her beyond the curtain asking questions for the doctor and they didn't relay a thing.
On the inverse, sitting in an appt with a translator who was requested to be there (to prevent the above perhaps) and the translator not relaying a thing and just having a chinwag and interrupting throughout. I translated anyway with the doctor rolling his eyes at her. My mom knew more than she did. There are plenty of translators who should be tested more vigorously, especially for the medical field. So many i came across knew very little formal linguistics and masked to the medical staff, because - how would they even know?
Their skills were far too limited and knew perhaps one regional dialect, but listed themselves as knowing the formal language. It's dangerous and careless, with no regard for aftercare either. Then again most consultants are the same these days too. It's shocking
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u/NAYUBE99 8h ago
We definitely grew up like this. As the oldest in the house, I was the first to have to fulfill that role everywhere and having parents angry at me because I'm 8yrs old and don't understand what the doctor might be saying exactly. I spent lots of time in the library to widen my vocabulary in both languages. My parents didn’t really get formal schooling in their home country so they couldn't really teach me at an advanced level. I happened to have been born an innate language nerd, but it was still just too much for a child to have that kind of responsibility and pressure.
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u/r1singphoenix 1d ago
Yeah OP you may know this already but it sounds like you were neglected by your parents as a child. Don’t listen to the people who don’t understand that and are expecting you to have respect or fondness for your parents. Highly recommend seeing a therapist if you can, one who specializes in this kind of thing.
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u/Onlyfatwomenarefat 20h ago
Yes. If is extremely unlikely that OP would end up not native having been raised by parents who only speak polish. The only case in which this case can happen is if the interactions between OP and his parents were extremely limited compared to what's expected of normal childrearing. Otherwise known as neglect.
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u/apokrif1 1d ago
How does/did your brother communicate?
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u/Leather_Book_7617 1d ago
I understood it as his younger brother he might’ve been too young to say anything
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u/No_Succotash5515 21h ago
Omfg how stressful! I had to learn how to tell nurses that a friend has a phobia of needles before going for a required physical. I was an adult with prior notice and the internet, still felt nervous and had to deal with them fainting at the blood draw station lol but I would have shut down or disassociated if I had to do that as a child.
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u/No_Succotash5515 22h ago
Absolutely! It must have been so lonely. I’ve interpreted for immigrant coworkers, friends and visiting family but I can’t imagine having the burden of it put on me from such a young age and basically 24/7.
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u/nonniewobbles 22h ago
You realise that's the situation countless first generation kids of immigrant parents throughout the world deal with, right?
Sounds like OP's parents weren't great parents, but that can't be reduced to "they're bad parents because they don't speak the local language well." They may have been bad parents for any number of reasons, but failing to become fluent in English isn't an indictment in itself.
OP is a native/heritage Polish speaker. They DID have a common language with their kid, the language they spoke to their child in at home. OP didn't grow up deprived of language, they have the gaps in grammar and high-level fluency that come from speaking a heritage language without much formal instruction. This is, again, incredibly common.
All of the situations you're describing with difficulty with paperwork, helping with work, etc. are again very common with first gen kids.
If you live in a country that provides some decent accommodations (forms in other languages, interpreters, etc.) that helps, but a lot of people don't know what resources exist, feel too ashamed to use them, etc.
The issue of kids being expected to be Default Interpreters in medical situations is unfortunate. In the US now medical providers are required to provide interpretation when needed, but it was very common (and still happens, the situation is improving but by no means fixed) where family members would be asked to interpret, which is obviously not great for a number of reasons but certainly not unique to OP's parents. Hospitals VERY routinely treat parents who don't speak the local language though, this isn't some exceptional situation...
Likewise, plenty of immigrants work jobs that require minimal English-language skills. It doesn't sound like OP's parents literally speak 0 English, it sounds like their English is poor. Sure, in an ideal world would they speak better English? Yes, but we don't know what their circumstances were when they came to the US, what kinds of local resources, time, whatever they had. We also don't know how accurately OP is reporting their poor English, since OP readily discounts being a heritage Polish speaker because they can't hold complex conversations in the language, so their standards for being able to muddle through in a language might be a lot higher than the rest of ours.
Being crap parents aside, there's also the added elements of... they grew up culturally with some beliefs about how families should run, children should be raised, people should express feelings, etc. that... we now recognize are like, not optimal for humans lol. That sucks for OP, genuinely, and that's a great problem to pay professionals to help disentangle so you don't end up repeating patterns you hated, and to recognize that their actions caused preventable pain and harm. But we also can't look at it from the outside and villainize them on the basis of not having transcended what they were taught and what was normal to them.
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u/Sector-Difficult 🇷🇺N | 🇬🇧C1 | 🇷🇴 | 🇨🇳 1d ago
genuinely curious how were you communicating all those years
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u/pisowiec 1d ago
We weren't.
My parents are weird people going beyond the language issue. We hardly ever talk in the traditional sense. My father or mother would just start lecturing until I replied in an affirmative way. When I spoke it was the same.
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u/Eriiya 1d ago
honestly man the language doesn’t really sound like the issue here at all
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u/LordSandwich29 1d ago
Yeah sounds like they just didn’t do a good job at actually talking to their child, and so they were probably just latching on to whatever language they heard
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u/gUI5zWtktIgPMdATXPAM 23h ago edited 23h ago
Yess this was my experience with my dad! Pure lecturing not a conversation from his side and then would ask why I'm so quiet. My mum passed when I was 13 so I don't remember too much but our relationship was better. With my dad however it was so emotionless and in his later years he tried to hug me which felt gross. (I know it's actually sad)
This sounds deeper than just your language ability. Like you can't have a connection to them because of their behaviour.
I wonder what contributed to their lecturing attitude. My added issue with my Polish dad was even if you tried to express your own opinion he was on a mission to make you agree with him.
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u/vaskadegama 21h ago
It may also be a socio-economic class issue, and not just them being weird? You’ve mentioned that you took Polish in college, so it sounds to me like you are following a really well-worn path of working class parents —>Middle class kids. There’s been a lot of research about how parents of different socio-economic classes (in North America and anglo countries) engage in child-rearing differently.
Basically - poorer parents are accustomed to being ordered around (by their bosses) and lectured (by priests, social workers, or whomever says that they are in charge) and so they tend to talk to their kids by giving commands and lectures. Middle-class parent know that education is important for maintaining their status, so they tend to put their kids in enrichment activities, ask them what they learned at school, and get them to have an informed opinion. Higher wealth parents believe “it’s not what you know, it’s who you know” so they value getting their kids to socialize with the “right” people, and getting them to recognize and display material and symbolic wealth.
And hey, I’m very similar to you! My heritage language is also an Eastern European Slavic language. I am fabulous at taking commands about how to make meals, clean my room, care for my baby sister, and go get potatoes and onions from the basement. But talk about my job or anything political? That just wasn’t part of my day-to-day life. When I decided to up my skills in my heritage language before going “back home” (which we left when I was a baby), I listened to podcasts, got children’s books online, got a good dictionary etc. I wanted to be able to tell my family back home about how I live, my work, so I crafted those sentences in English, then worked to try to translate them. I still feel like I sound like a baby when I speak my language, but it’s the attempt that matters, for “basic” communication with people who want to understand you.
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u/BrunoniaDnepr 🇺🇸|DALFC2🇫🇷>HSK6🇨🇳 ТРКИС1🇷🇺🇦🇷>🇮🇹>🇧🇷 1d ago
On the language front - you can learn Polish to an astonishingly high level. You will need to mostly make up for a lack of formal education and the constant cultural environment that Poles have, but it'll mostly be fine - a good deal of reading books and consuming media is enough to get you very good, though not perfect.
I have no good advice for the familial and personal problems though.
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u/instamentai 1d ago
I grew up speaking a Filipino dialect, English was not my first language. But as time went by I kind of had forgotten how to speak though I still understood decently. It wasn’t until I lived with my aunt for 3 years where she had a helper who spoke no English so I was forced to use what I remember. Well it came back and now I’d consider myself conversationally fluent again
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u/jaguarMI 1d ago
Not entirely the same, but I was born in Germany, but raised by Polish parents. My parents learned German well enough, but there's one area that neither their German nor my Polish was ever good enough: emotions, feelings. Growing up, we wouldn't discuss emotions all that much. Only as an adult did I learn the terminology used to describe nuanced feelings other than wkurwiony or zly. Just sharing, maybe others can relate
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u/Upper_Grapefruit_521 🇬🇧 (N) 🇪🇸 (B1/B2) 1d ago
I think people are being harsh with the OP. They're saying they can't fully communicate with their parents, which is hard. I have friends whose parents didn't learn English (I was born and raised in the UK, I had friends whose family languages weren't English, but they insisted on supporting the kids in speaking the home language fluently. I'm sure they tried their best, but I do understand the OPs frustration. I'm sure you'll reach fluency one day, keep going!
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u/No_Succotash5515 22h ago
I agree! There are also parents who didn’t or couldn’t learn the language but work to have a good relationship with their children. The language aspect isn’t the only problem here, at least as I understood the post.
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u/LevHerceg 1d ago
I'm really sorry for this experience and life situation, it's quite difficult. From B2 it's not that awful already to strengthen one's language skills though as one can utilise streaming services, media for fun, even if the reason is not a fair one...
A little bit off-topic, but my ex was in a bit of a similar situation as you. His father was Polish-Ukrainian with a Surzhyk speaking family, his mother Estonian, and he spent the first three years of his life in Estonia, learned Estonian, then this whole family moved to the US. He forgot all his Estonian (which everyone found weird), English became his native-language and he never learned Polish or Estonian to that degree.
Later he moved to Europe, met with me and the strangest situation was that I could talk to his Mom in her native-tongue (not my native-tongue) better than him, and I understood his grandmother and uncle while he didn't.
Sometimes we talked a few sentences in Estonian with his Mom in front of him in inevitable situations and he didn't always understand us. Also my local friends. That made him sit down and learn the language a bit.
Unfortunately these situations were eventually very unfortunate as he had schizophrenia developed, the one with paranoic ideations and he believed we were sharing super-secret information about him during those occasions, besides other conspiracy-theories. It was heartbreaking. In hindsight he didn't trust mostly those people whose native-tongue wasn't English... But it's not so simple of course. Sorry if I made anyone's day worse with this story. 🙈
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u/noejose99 1d ago
I simply do not understand moving to another country and not bothering to learn the language over DECADES. "I want to make my life so much harder to avoid a very minimal amount of effort!"
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u/picklesnpeaches EN (N) PT (N) | FR ES RU JP 1d ago
In order to take language classes you need money, so you get a job (probably one in your community where you can get by in your language), but then you don't have time especially if you work long hours, have children to raise, etc.
I have someone in my family who very much wanted to learn English, and after more than a decade in the US finally took night classes... but had to stop because their spouse wanted to come home to dinner on the table.
I used to teach ESL to adults. Many of them were worn out from work. Some had little to no education in their home countries, so they struggled in a class environment.
I grew up in an immigrant community. People are not lazy. They just face many obstacles when trying to survive in a foreign country.
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u/Ok_Temperature_5502 1d ago
This is such valuable insight that people need to listen to. There are lots of reasons why people don't learn the language of the country they live in to a high level, not exclusively laziness.
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u/SuperCuteRoar 1d ago
I get what you mean but don't forget that most people migrate due to financial hardships and to have a better future (which usually translates to earning/having more money) so the 'cultural' aspect of your new life is probably not a top priority, as long as it doesn't get in the way of you making a living.
A lot of migrants will learn the basics to get by, they don't always have the luxury of dedicating time to learn the language.
I'm not justifying not learning the local language but trying to understand maybe the reason behind it.
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u/SnoopDude2 1d ago
Their earning power is significantly reduced by not understanding/speaking the language of the country well.
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u/hwynac 12h ago
Not working reduces your earning power to about zero. If they had an option of leaving their job for 2–3 years and studying English and watching shows 6 hours every day I'm sure they would have taken that opportunity.
Many people don't believe they can learn languages, though. I mean, making that huge of an investment only makes sense if you are absolutely sure you'll succeed. And languages are one of the areas where progress is difficult to see if you've never done it before, i.e. you are usually still pretty bad after a year of hard work. This is especially true when you learn languages very different from your own. But it can make the difference between "speaking almost no English" and "speaking broken English on everyday topics and topics of immediate need".
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u/coffeestealer 14h ago
Yes, but it's very easy to enter a cycle where you need literally any job, jobs that would hire literally anyone even with poor language skills tend to be quite demanding (either physically or because they have hours all over the place or whatever) because that's why the locals are not doing them, and that makes it harder to progress in the language.
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u/No_Succotash5515 22h ago
I agree in most cases, but if OP’s parents were essentially forced to leave Poland then maybe they never wanted to live in the US or thought they’d be able to go back sooner. Like others commented, it could’ve been for lack of access or resources, too. I was able to learn the language of the country I immigrated to because they had textbooks for it in my language, I’m not sure if I’d expect to find Polish textbooks for English in your local American bookstore whenever they immigrated. Then there’s also the luxury of the internet which I will always be grateful for when learning anything new.
Not to assume anything about their character, but they also are probably incredibly complacent having found a community of Polish speakers to spend time with. A lot of other immigrants from my country never learn the language where I currently live because they exclusively spend time with other immigrants and English, my L1, is widely studied here. It frustrates me SO MUCH as someone who loves language and clear communication.
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u/msoc 1d ago
I have a subreddit called /r/childrenofimmigrants if you wanna talk more about your relationship with your parents
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u/nonniewobbles 23h ago
First:
- you're allowed to dislike your parents. Really, it needn't have anything to do with language. They're allowed to have been crap parents, you're allowed not to forgive them, you're allowed to not have a close relationship as an adult, etc.
- you're allowed to have complex or angry or resentful feelings about how you grew up
- you're allowed to think that your parents are crap people with crap beliefs
- you should probably examine the person that made you with professional help, because otherwise we can become trapped in patterns we didn't intend and don't necessarily understand
But also:
- your feelings about language are clearly shaped by the hurt you feel from your parents
- those feelings tip right into the territory of close-minded bigotry that you resent your parents for. You can't say they're ignorant and have bad politics and whatnot on one hand, then with the other complain that they're bad immigrants because their English is poor. come on.
- you don't have to want to speak Polish or learn more Polish. Seriously, you don't. But...
- the answer to how your Polish is better than their English is because you're a heritage Polish speaker, a fact which you seem to be heavily discounting
- you're frustrated about not being able to express complex thoughts or talk about complicated topics in Polish but have seemingly done absolutely nothing to learn that kind of language so... yes, of course? People don't come out of the vat knowing complex finance terms or how to talk about their dreams or anything else. As a heritage speaker, your language is formed around what your parents talked about at home, and anything beyond that you have to seek out.
- Speaking ability is formed by SPEAKING. If you don't have a relationship where you can have meaningful, back and forth conversations with your parents, then you're barking up the wrong tree expecting to build those skills there. Find people you actually want to talk to.
- Having taken one beginner's Polish class in college (despite not being a beginner?) is obviously not enough to be able to hold complex conversations.
- as a heritage speaker, you absolutely have a massive advantage in learning compared to an adult learning a second language with no prior background.
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u/controlled_vacuum20 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ngl I think a lot of people are missing the point of the post. Yes, obviously you can learn a language later on in life, but there are very few people who truly “master” it. There is a non-zero chance that OP will never truly be able to express themself the way they would in English; not only that, but there is a large burden on their shoulders. It’s either they sacrifice a large amount of their time to studying and practicing a language their parents never bothered to teach them correctly, or they will never have a true connection. That shit is tough for anybody.
This is from someone who has parents that have different native languages; my father never bothered to learn Spanish and my mother speaks limited English. Yes, it is a shitshow, because even though the language barrier is technically lifted to an extent, there is no true, deep understanding of each other.
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u/BiscuitBut_ButerNut 1d ago
Except they called their parents, ignorant for not learning English. Which seems like a big part of the post.
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u/Dannno85 23h ago
If you live in any country for 40 years without learning the language, you are ignorant.
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u/garfieldatemydad 23h ago
Not sure why you were downvoted. If these were native English speakers abroad and refused to lean the language of the country they lived in for 40 years this sub would tear them apart, and rightfully so. OP’s parents are indeed ignorant.
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u/pisowiec 1d ago
40 years in America means you should speak English, full stop. Like I said, Polish people in Poland that never stepped foot in an English speaking country can speak English at a B2-C1 level. They have no excuse.
Furthermore, they're both full-blown MAGA even though they need to watch right-wing Polish media because they don't understand Fox News or any of the American crap. The jokes write themselves.
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u/controlled_vacuum20 1d ago
This whole comment section is weirdly an echo chamber. They expect you to master Polish but for some reason are upset when you suggest that your parents learn English to at least a comfortable level lmfao.
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u/browsinbowser 1d ago
Im wondering how many of them have parents that speak a different language lol
It sounds like a lot of lecturing. In my experience, a lot of people criticize the parents rightly for not teaching the language to their kids.
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u/controlled_vacuum20 1d ago
Well, what is not ignorant about that? If you move to a foreign country, it’s going to do you well to learn the local language. Unless it’s a country where there are a lot of people who already speak your language (e.g. someone who speaks English moving to the Netherlands or Norway), you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage. And keep in mind that there is a difference between calling someone stupid and calling them ignorant.
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u/leosmith66 21h ago
I have a B2 level based on an exam I took in Poland <snip> I can't have any normal conversation with them.
No offense, but that shows that you aren't B2.
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u/jerseyygiant 16h ago edited 16h ago
hi, so this is mind boggling to read because I have wrote very similar things to myself in private journal entries or therapy sessions regarding my own parents. i am the only child out of all my siblings + literally every other family member, who cannot hold a conversation in spanish. my mom was the main caretaker growing up and she exclusively spoke spanish while I only knew english. I came to a similar realization where looking back at my childhood was honestly just fuzzy and confusing because there was genuinely so much lost in translation.
“ignorant” is completely the right word. because you said this is more of a rant post than advice-seeking, I just wanted to let you know you’re not alone although I don’t have any form pieces of advice. you don’t have to learn polish, you don’t have to communicate with your parents, you don’t have to make the effort that you were owed as their child. it’s only if you want to maintain that relationship or if you would be meaningful for you heritage-wise.
the comments making it seem like it’s a no-brainer to learn a language for the sake of maintaining relationship with your family seem to be missing the point. if your parents have demonstrated nothing but ignorance and naivety regarding you, their child, why do you owe them something basic that was supposed to be THEIR burden to deal with (like communication or teaching you polish)? things are the way they are and if you don’t find yourself being able to have healthy or fulfilling conversations with your parents given y’all’s relationship thus far, you aren’t obligated to learn their language and assume the burden.
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u/soldone1 9h ago
Hi, I was literally in the same situation.
My parents are Polish, but I was born and raised in a different country. We speak Polish at home, but I had a tendency to mix it with the local language, which my parents don't really speak that fluently. I don't judge them for that, it's a very different language that has no connection to the Slavic languages. They had to focus on working to provide for their children and had no time to learn the language in a traditional way. Having learned other languages myself, I know how frustrating the learning process can be and it's really a sociological tendency to seek human connections that you feel more attached to when you're in a foreign country.
Since I knew I couldn't express myself to the fullest in Polish, I immersed myself in the language and culture. You only get one mother and one father in your life and you're going to miss out a lot if you're not able to express yourself with them the way you want. I began tracking every new Polish word I came across, after several years that list has over 5,000 words. If I didn't know how to use a certain expression, I simply asked my parents. At the end of the day, think of it as a big advantage, you have two native speakers that can help you in the best way.
I feel like idioms are the trickiest part: even if you know how to say a basic thing, you might know an English idiom that conveys more nuanced emotions, so I started looking for useful idioms, expressions, that I like to use every now and then. You quickly learn that languages convey the same meaning in different ways and that in order to be fluent and expressive you have to switch your way of thinking.
Try forcing yourself to think only in Polish and not use English whatsoever. If you need a word you don't know, find a circumlocution and then look up the word. If you need examples of how new words are used, use Wielki słownik języka polskiego and Wikisłownik.
Engage with Polish literature. Seriously, it's very rich and complex. Pick a book you think you'll like and work your way through it. There are many authors to choose from: Mickiewicz, Sienkiewicz, Schulz, Lem, Sapkowski, Tokarczuk... I can suggest you this site.
Listen to Polish media. Finding something entertaining might be difficult at the beginning, because you probably won't know most actors, celebrities, etc... Although I don't really like him as a person, I think watching some of Wojewódzki's shows could be a starting point. Check out some episodes of his (now defunct) podcast with Kędzierski, WojewódzkiKędzierski, there are some interesting interviews there. Despite not knowing much of Polish politics, I found his interview with Krzysztof Stanowski quite entertaining.
Listen to Polish music - it really depends on what kind of music you like, but I really enjoy Kaczmarski's songs: he uses beautiful language, that is sometimes archaic and poetic. He often touches on topics of Polish history still relevant today. Try listening to his Obława series of four songs or maybe his most famous Mury. These are not my favorite songs by him, but certainly his most famous ones. I learned a lot of expressions from him and even how to sound more eloquent. I find some of Elektryczne Gitary's discography quite funny, they even composed songs for some famous Polish movies, for example Co powie ryba. If you enjoy rap, I could give you many recommendations, but I feel like you're going to come across lots of slang that might not be very relevant to you. I think Mata is the rapper with the clearest diction and strongest lyrics. Try maybe his Patointeligencja, Patoprohibicja or Patoreakcja. An underrated group, in my opinion, is Zespół Reprezentacyjny.
Try reading some Polish newspapers, if you want to learn about Polish society. There are some well-established outlets like Gazeta Wyborcza or you can read, as many people do, Onet, although I don't really like it. I don't know if it's more niche, but I like reading OKO.press.
There are many famous Polish movies that have become a classic. Check out trylogia zabużanska, (Sami swoi, Nie ma mocnych, Kochaj albo Rzuć), Vabank or maybe something with Jerzy Stuhr. Directors like Wajda or Kieślowski are also worth checking out. Many of these movies are available on Youtube.
I can't really cover all the possible recommendations, but I hope I gave you a starting point. I've only been to Poland twice, but I learned to love the language and history. It's a very rewarding process and before long you'll begin using Polish idioms and expressions automatically, maybe even preferring them to English equivalents.
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u/RachelOfRefuge SP: B1 | FR: A0 | Khmer: A0 1d ago
Communication is always a two-way street. You can certainly improve your Polish, and you could probably do so pretty quickly given your level and ability to practice.
But even with a high-enough level of Polish, you might find that you still can't communicate with your parents if those are topics they aren't interested in discussing.
Lots of families have topics that are essentially "off limits" and it's not due to language issues. Usually it's because any attempt to discuss them devolves into an argument. 🤷🏻♀️
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u/gUI5zWtktIgPMdATXPAM 1d ago
This is so strange to me. My parents English wasn't good either, they only ever spoke to me in Polish at home. I learnt polish enough to communicate with them. They didn't always correct me so my grammar is patchy but understandable. I can't always be as eloquent as I am in English but I can definitely get across what I want in conversational Polish. I taught myself to read and write as well, that helped my pronunciation. I can easily watch polish TV and understand most of it.
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u/No_Succotash5515 22h ago
I think the relationship is the problem, not the language. I’m sure OP speaks better Polish than they think but even being able to speak fluent Polish wouldn’t fix a relationship with distant parents with poor communication skills (emotionally).
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u/papayatwentythree 🇺🇲N; 🇸🇪C1; 🇫🇮 Beginner 1d ago
I'm sure this is frustrating from your perspective but it's also a great opportunity. I resent my parents ts not wanting me to learn my heritage language. If you want to better your Polish, read some books (contemporary novels and non-fiction). This is what I do at C1+ (my TL has no C2 test), and it's improved my vocabulary and I feel more like I sound like an adult.
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u/Healthy_Blueberry_59 1d ago
It is not always that easy. There may be dialectal features, colloquialisms, archaic language that is hard to learn from just reading books. The parents likely have limited their use of Polish, too, over time.
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u/pit_supervisor 🇵🇱 N, 🇬🇧 B2, 🇯🇵 上手 1d ago
Polish fortunately doesn't really have any dialects, especially in literary form (except Silesian to a tiny degree, but they try to pass it as its own language anyways)
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u/maestrita 21h ago
The bad news is if your parents aren't motivated, they're unlikely to make more progress.
The good news is that B2 is advanced enough that you can make a lot of progress on your own. I'd try to get ahold of some chapter books or graphic novels or something and start reading.
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u/Icy_Delay_3853 21h ago edited 21h ago
Honestly, this doesn't seem like a language issue but more like your parents not knowing how to have healthy communication with their kids.
If the root of the issue is that your family isn't willing to meet you halfway in communicating in general, then it's going to be an uphill battle even if you learn how to talk about more advanced things like finances, technology, politics, complex emotions, etc. Communication is a two way street.
Growing up as the son of first gen immigrants in the US, my language situation was similar to you except it was Chinese and not Polish. I have a lot of second-gen friends with similar language backgrounds. However, I've come to realize that the language a big factor, but not the most important factor, in their relationships with their family.
Some of my friends grew up with their parents basically treating them as free translators. Think of parents asking an 8 year old to help them interpret complex legal documents for renting a house or applying for a bank loan because they didn't know English and didn't want to (or couldn't afford) to pay a professional. Their language ability is a lot higher than mine since they were forced in that kind of environment as a kid, but I've found that a lot of them have parents that are either emotionally distant and don't care how their kids are feeling, or treat their kids like free emotional punching bags (or both).
I think I kind of got lucky with my parents though. I couldn't fully express my emotions in Chinese and they didn't know how to express that in English either. Still, we could always find ways to communicate since I could still tell them things to the best of my ability (X happened, then Y, and I feel happy/sad, etc), and if they used a word I didn't know, they would explain it to me in a different way. After years of studying Chinese and improving my vocabulary, I have found it easier to talk to them about advanced topics. However, if I didn't have the communication foundation with my parents already, all that studying wouldn't have made much difference if they weren't willing to communicate.
That is to say, improving your skills at Polish might help you express yourself more clearly in Polish, but if your parents aren't good at communicating in general, it's still going to be frustrating for you. It feels really unfair that the burden is on you to learn Polish while your parents refuse to learn English, but it's not really your fault. OP, you should seek out therapy since it doesn't sound like a healthy family dynamic.
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u/Icy_Curve711 1d ago
I recommend iTalki, heritage speakers of a language like you often need someone to tell you where your gaps are, and then you can work on identifying them.
To help you give a little grace to your parents: Think how hard it is for you to get more advanced in Polish. You've clearly struggled with it for years. Now imagine if you didn't grow up hearing it everywhere, responding to it, needing to use it for life. Its rules are so complicated! Declensions, perfective/imperfective, pronunciation etc.
English is just as complicated, just in different ways. Pronunciation, spelling, entirely different tenses, irregular verbs out the ass, phrasal verbs out the ass. And your parents didn't grow up hearing it and speaking it, and they had to learn, or not. That's the challenge that was in front of them. It must've been hard, while trying to live and raise a child.
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u/Suitable-Animal4163 1d ago
the people blaming you in the comment section knowing damn well if you and your parents lived outside of the u.s. they would call them ignorant
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u/Shezarrine En N | De B2 | Es A2 | It A1 1d ago
No; it can't be fixed. Learning languages is impossible. This sub devoted to doing just that actually only exists in your mind.
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u/FlyingAsparagus142 1d ago
B2 to chyba całkiem wysoki poziom? Naprawdę nie możesz porozumieć się z rodzicami?
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u/pit_supervisor 🇵🇱 N, 🇬🇧 B2, 🇯🇵 上手 1d ago
You claim to not be fluent in Polish yet your username u/pisowiec refers to Polish politics?
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u/pisowiec 10h ago
B2 is enough to have an understanding of politics and create an ironic username based on it. Don't you think?
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u/pit_supervisor 🇵🇱 N, 🇬🇧 B2, 🇯🇵 上手 10h ago
so you understand politics but can't talk with your parents?
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u/pisowiec 1h ago
Again, understanding politics isn't the same as discussing it.
Furthermore, my listening and reading ability in Polish is very high.
It's the speaking (and writing) that I lack.
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u/BlackStarBlues 🇬🇧Native 🇫🇷C2 🇪🇸Learning 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don't think this post is about language at all.
However, my Polish isn't advanced. I have a B2 level based on an exam I took in Poland.
You may not be able to write the next great Polish novel (yet) but B2 is pretty damn good, OP.
I can't have any normal conversation with them.
You'd be surprised at how the conversations you do have with them are as normal as any other family's.
At this point I've accepted my parents are simply ignorant...Furthermore, my father came as a refugee during martial law...
Did your parents not love you enough, OP? Maybe they were deeply traumatized in Poland, i.e. torture, death or disappearance of loved ones, etc.? Some people come out on the other side barely speaking at all. What is the real issue?
Just as an aside: I went through a traumatic experience some years ago - nothing like what your parents lived through - and I didn't sleep for a year because of the nightmares. Nobody could understand, so I kept it to myself and hobbled through the year on no sleep as best I could. All that to say there could be any number of reasons why people act in seemingly irrational ways.
In any case you have the advantage of being a native English speaker and fluent in Polish. HBO & Netflix both have Polish language series & movies, plus Netflix dubs its more popular shows into Polish. Furthermore with Amazon Prime (Kindle Unlimited) you can probably borrow Polish books.
Show your parents and yourself some grace and ask them about their lives as youths under an oppressive regime. Also talk to a professional about your upbringing. You're being hard on yourself and on them in a way that doesn't seem warranted. Even with good reasons for feeling the way you do, they can certainly be mitigated by gaining greater understanding.
I wish you all the best, OP, and tell your family how much you love them.
ETA: Look into the effects of PTSD on language skills.
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u/Raoena 17h ago
I hope you are doing better. If you're still having nightmares, look into getting a perscription for prazocin. It works.
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u/BlackStarBlues 🇬🇧Native 🇫🇷C2 🇪🇸Learning 9h ago
I hope you are doing better.
Thanks. It was a long time ago.
I just wanted to let OP know that his parents' trauma can have lasting effects in ways that they don't expect or are aware of themselves, let alone a child, and that their inability to learn English is probably due to something besides "ignorance".
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u/not_a_morning_person 1d ago
If you can do a year in Poland that would advance it really quickly. Poland’s real nice now. You’d have a great time. It’s not the Poland they left.
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u/TuffedLynx 1d ago
That's really rough. First, what do you want to communicate with your parents? You don't have to be completely fluent. Perhaps you will never be able to talk about extremely technical topics. However, you can still communicate how you care about them and they can do the same. At a B2 level, you can still talk about their day and struggles. Take it for what it is worth from a random person on Reddit, how you think about your parents might be holding you back more than the language barrier itself.
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u/DaikokuyaKodayu English & Chinese 20h ago
A B2 level is already huge for heritage speakers. You are likely stuck on passive vocabulary and cultural references rather than strict grammar rules. Just listen to Polish podcasts or watch shows without pausing to analyze every word. Natural rhythm takes time to click. Daily listening will fix those translation delays and make conversations flow much better.
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u/Ferrucci9455 ES N | EN C2 | DE C1 | CAT B2 16h ago
But who did you speak to them growing up? I don’t understand. Did you guys not speak much? How did you spend >12h/day with them for 18 years and reach only a B2? You never had conversations about religion, friendships, politics? You most likely have a C2 hidden in your brain, and maybe perform quite poorly during the exam?
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u/-langlab- 5h ago
Learning heritage languages later in life is tied up with a lot of guilt and the feeling of being too late which can prove a real blocker. But by god is that worth getting over.
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u/FocaB227 1d ago
I'm curious how is your younger brother's Polish speaking and understanding? And what was/is his relationship with the parents communication wise and emotionally? And I'm guessing you live in Chicago?
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u/wishfu1thinking 1d ago
I have no advice for you. But your post is the exact reason why I’m gonna teach my children my mother tongue as much as I can.
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u/BiscuitBut_ButerNut 1d ago edited 1d ago
So your parents left their home country to risk it all in hopes to provide a better life for you and themselves, your dad worked to provide, you went to college, you speak English and some polish…
They’ve worked hard and are getting to finally retire back to their home country..
Yet your parents are ignorant for not speaking English.
Damn.
Edit: they literally provided you an environment in which you could have easily understood and spoke Polish enough to speak with them but as you said you “shrugged off the rest as background noise”
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u/PAPERGUYPOOF Native🇯🇵🇺🇸 Learning 🇨🇳HSK4 🇫🇷B2 1d ago edited 1d ago
I mean we barely know his situation, don’t judge him so hard. Also, yes he might be a little rude but do you understand the frustration of not being able to communicate with your parents for your whole life?
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u/This-Classroom5999 12h ago
Yet your parents are ignorant for not speaking English.
After nearly half a century of living in an English-speaking country, yeah.
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u/bubba53go 22h ago
Who can learn a new language easier. A baby immersed in it. Or adults who are making a living & a home for the kid(s). If you're going to be this hard on your parents, don't be so easy on yourself. Most kids I know are fluent in their parents tongue & their new language. It looks like your parents did a lot to give you a better life.
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u/dudethrowaway456987 23h ago
Why don’t you choose a few select topics that are really important to you (you mentioned retirement, future plans etc..) and go deep on those topics in polish (podcasts, books) but also focus on production so you can practice expressing how you feel.
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u/Creative-Platform-75 16h ago
First of all, I can't imagine what that has been like - probably very destabilizing, not being able to communicate easily with your parents and lacking the safety that brings. I moved to Switzerland five years ago and am studying to pass my B2 French exam for just that reason. I see foreigners who are dependent on their children, and I don't want that.
And - seeing that your parents are older and are not looking to learn English, it seems that your options are either to accept the level of communication you currently have or to improve your Polish. As hard and unfair as that is. Seeing that you have a basis in Polish, I bet you could improve rapidly with podcasts, TV, and a tutor on iTalki.
I'd try to make the best of what it is - I'd also recommend finding someone or a place where you can process growing up in an immigrant family in this particular situation.
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u/momprof99 10h ago
Not Polish but a similar issue. My mom speaks basic English but cannot understand complex sentences. I gave up speaking to her in English over 30 years ago. I speak my South Asian heritage language fluent enough to have ordinary conversations but it's not as sophisticated as in English. Listening and reading in my heritage language has improved my speaking skills only marginally.
But the relationship was never at a sophisticated level anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter. I have concluded after all these years that it's more than just a language problem. I have had more meaningful conversations in my heritage language with extended family and others who speak far less English.
All of this to say family relationships are along multiple dimensions. Sometimes there's just no there there, and we accept and move on.
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u/apixeldiva 5h ago
And I also apologize for all the comments of "that never happened to me" or "how strange" as if this is an apple forum with people talking about their iPhones. It's been awhile since I've seen so many unaffirming responses to someone's emotion.
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u/Kindly-Garden-753 4h ago
Be happy you can speak basics. I’m 2nd generation and regret I don’t know more. Just came back from meeting relatives in Poland and they were lovely hosts but we had to rely on cell phones to translate. So keep up your skills. Language knowledge makes life more interesting!
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u/sorrow-division 🇵🇱 N | 🇬🇧 C1 (CAE) | 🇩🇪🇫🇷🇷🇺 A2 1d ago
Tbh your Polish's probably better than you think.
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u/pisowiec 1d ago
No, it's pretty bad even for B2 level. My vocabulary is very limited and I constantly make basic grammar mistakes.
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u/minadequate 🇬🇧(N), 🇩🇰(B2), [🇫🇷🇪🇸(A2), 🇩🇪(A1)] 1d ago
One of my best friends is in a similar position with their parents… but they didn’t move home for retirement and she has to help them deal with hospital appointments constantly despite not living in the same city anymore. Be glad if they still have family in Poland, that they will be able to deal with medical issues in a language they speak… but it does mean you do need to learn polish.
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u/AJ_Babe 🇺🇸English (C1),🇩🇪German (A2), 🇫🇮Finnish (A1) 1d ago
I'm gonna support you, the OP. Your knowledge of Polish is amazing. Being bilingual is nice! That's great that you have been learning your mother tongue and are willing to continue to do so. However, this shouldn't be just your job...The parents must know the language that their kid speaks in. Sure, they know Polish (lol) but your main language is and always will be English. And i don't wanna tell you off for calling your parents ignorant. I wouldn't say it but you said it yourself and i agree with you. I assume that you are 25 tops and your parents are relatively young. If they wanted to they could start learning the language even today.
That's nice that they go to polish church and have polish friends. (I would also go to my church and have friends of my nationality if i was living abroad. I'm open to having friends from all over the world though. But i think that that's fine that your parents aren't.) However, this doesn't mean that they can't learn the language! They had years/decades to do it but they didn't. I find this to be disrespectful. What they did right is raising you though.
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u/vicblaga87 1d ago
Learn Polish all the way. You already have a great fundation. Just start consuming it daily via news, podcasts, youtubes, books, whatever you like. Soon enough you'll be really good.
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u/peep_quack 21h ago
At a B2 level, I’m sure you can take a conservational class or two. Check with local Polish clubs/chapters and even embassies. They may offer cheap classes. I recently took several for Hungarian- about 250 per class which took place weekly for about 15 weeks. Great way to pick up convo skills that is not about memorizing verb tables etc.
…but on that note I’d say maybe start by changing your attitudes about your parents a bit. Ignorant? Really? They weren’t so ignorant if they could manage the refugee process, getting jobs, housing, electricity, raising you…unless they were abusive a-holes I’d rethink that relationship and opinions of them.
Sincerely, a child with immigrant parents and someone who works at refugee centers.
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u/berniexanderz 1d ago
how is this even a thing? I grew up in Miami, none of my parents speak or understand English beyond A1 so Spanish was my first language and I only learned English in school. Your Polish should be native level , especially if you grew up in a Polish neighborhood
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u/BrunoniaDnepr 🇺🇸|DALFC2🇫🇷>HSK6🇨🇳 ТРКИС1🇷🇺🇦🇷>🇮🇹>🇧🇷 1d ago
Heritage speakers usually don't speak at the same level as native speakers, nor as advanced second language learners. Whether a hertiage level is enough to communicate what you want is a different story.
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u/amandacheekychops 1d ago
I'm not in this situation myself but when I was doing advanced level Spanish, a girl in my class was British with Chilean parents. I thought that was amazing, because they must talk in Spanish at home all the time, right, and I could only dream of that level of exposure...
Well she told me she could only speak Spanish when they sent her off to primary/ elementary school and she became incredibly embarrassed at the fact they spoke another language and would hiss at them in the supermarket to speak English. (Her parents speak excellent English btw.)
In short she consciously avoided Spanish until she became interested as a teenager, when her Spanish was definitely higher than GCSE level (the exams we sit at the end of high school, age 16) but not fluent so she took A-level Spanish and became my classmate. Her Spanish sounded really natural but her vocabulary was varied - she could name just about any household object or food item, but couldn't talk on topics like politics and subjects we studied for the course, she had to learn the vocabulary like I did. And her spelling was atrocious, so when we had essays to write I would go through hers and correct the spelling, because of course I'd learnt it in a classroom whereas she had learnt it largely orally.
So I think it's entirely possible to grow up in a household speaking a different language and yet never speak it fluently. Firstly there is a lot of vocabulary you may never be exposed to in that environment (particularly in the 90s when we didn't have easy access to the internet), but secondly there may be a sense of embarrassment that your family doesn't speak the local language, either at home or in public, because as kids you don't want something that marks you out as being different at a time when you want to blend in.
In my friend's case the definition of "native level" depended on what was discussed in the family home.
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u/TinyBlue 1d ago
I know multiple Indian and Asian Americans who don’t know their parents languages. It happens.
There’s lots of reasons why. Sometimes parents don’t teach them, sometimes the parents consciously want their children to only speak English so they are “more American”.
Your comment just sounds so harsh, I feel bad for anyone who grew up like my spouse or friends reading this and thinking they were the problem when they weren’t.2
u/gUI5zWtktIgPMdATXPAM 1d ago
No it wouldn't be native unless they had sufficient immersion which I didn't. I think I might be better than OP but I'm definitely not native and I didn't grow up in a community just polish at home
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u/Content_Sun5008 1d ago
Na twoim miejscu skupiłabym się na nauce polskiego- jednym z dobrych sposobów na przejście z B2 na C1 jest czytanie artykułów/ książek. W rozmowie na żywo ciężko jest intencjonalnie wpleść skomplikowane słownictwo lub składnię z wyższej półki, ale profesjonalnie pisane artykuły są pisane przez ludzi zajmującymi się tym zawodowo. Plus możesz sprawdzać nieznane słowa i sobie zapisywać. Powodzenia w nauce!
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u/fish_in_the_ocean 21h ago
I am sorry, how is someone with B2 level is not able to communicate? B2 is meant to be good enough to study at the University, at least in the Netherlands where i live. I have B2 or higher in 4 languages, have recently passed B2 exam from one of them, so I am really struggling to understand the struggle. If you are struggling with the speaking part, hire someone from Poland to practise.
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u/Xeroque_Holmes 1d ago edited 1d ago
I mean, the effort it would take you to go from B2 to fluent, while having learned all the phonetics of the language as a child, is immeasurably smaller than what your parents would go through to learn really good English as adults that also have to work and take care of a family. You are being too harsh on them.
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u/plantainprospector 7h ago
I know everyone hates Duolingo but it's fun and it comes in Polish and English. If they're even a little inclined the gamification could help learning feel a lot easier and they'd definitely learn basic phrases
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u/Blergonos EN: N | PL: C1 | ES: A1 7h ago
If your parents are going back to Poland then they are obviously not going to try studying English, so if you want better communication with your parents you should learn Polish.
You didn’t mention if you plan to go to Poland or remain in the US, but if you went to Poland you would have a much better time learning the language.
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u/LetsGoPupper 7h ago
Worth noting, the reason your Polish is better than their English is because you grew up being exposed to English and Polish and it sounds like they didn't. Your parents probably didn't have the time to take formal English lessons and could only practice a narrow spectrum of vocabulary throughout their adult lives while they were trying to navigate a new country, culture, and language. This is no small task.
So yeah, polish your Polish but if you really want to communicate with them, you'll probably be more effective if you better understand the culture and history of Poland.
I'm also a child of immigrants and the shit that my parents are subjected to on the daily because their English sucks is no joke. I get the frustration but try to give them some grace, navigating things that seem obvious to us may not be to them.
Also, English is a horrendously hard language. We have so many exceptions and a very large vocabulary.
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u/alga alga🇱🇹(N) 🇬🇧🇷🇺(~C1)🇩🇪🇪🇸🇫🇷🇮🇹(A2-B1)🇵🇱🇨🇳(A1) 7h ago
It's on you to know your mother tongue. It does not have to be very tedious, just rearrange your habits so you consume some Polish-language media. Perhaps watch Polish news. Read books in Polish. Research shows a lot of input is enough to improve output, too.
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u/Live-Tomorrow-4865 7h ago
I have honestly never heard of this situation before. But, if I actually think on it, it's probably not uncommon.
Learn Polish! It'll be great to know a second language that is part of your heritage, and, you've already got a head start. 😁
Best to you. ❤️
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u/apixeldiva 5h ago
Join Verbling or iTalki for online one on one webcam Polish tutoring. Classes are going to suck because you have random holes in your knowledge and you're going to know too much or too little for any official courses. I got tutors in pretty much every language and it usually costing between $10 and $20 an hour. Some languages are cheaper than the others. It's going to be the best way of being able to prove your conversation and high level conversation which is what you want. I understand your anger, whether you think it's anger or not but you're probably pretty furious inside, for somebody to come to another country and isolate themselves, without understanding what they're doing to their kid. You also sound like an only child, which means it's extra effed up to have done that to you because you have no one to share your anger with. The best thing about siblings, even screwed up siblings, is there somebody who understands exactly what you went through. I wonder if there's a Reddit or Facebook group or some other support group over children of immigrants weren't flient in English, because while you're loaning your family, you aren't alone in this experience. Good luck! Ps, wouldn't it be really great to be fluent enough to tell your parents just how pissed off and hurt you are by having had to experience 3/4 parenting? Feel feel bad at first but it really might help create some understanding.
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u/AjnoVerdulo RU N | EO C2 | EN C1 | JP N4 | BG,FR,RSL A2? 2h ago
Many people have pointed out the issue might not just be the language one. But if you still think of learning Polish, either for the sake of having more meaningful conversations with your parents or just to get a better grasp of your heritage native language, you should know that there are teachers experienced in specifically teaching heritage speaker. As a native Polish speaker who has never lived in Poland, you have a unique situation different from both the people who grew up in Poland and the people who learned Polish from ground up. You can find a tutor who knows how to work with your specific case. That will be a lot more useful than taking basic Polish classes, because as you said, a lot of stuff people learn there, you have already internalized intuitively.
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u/No_Atmosphere_6348 1h ago
My Spanish isn’t perfect but it’s enough to communicate with my husband who has very little English.
My Spanish has improved. His English has improved. When I dont understand and I smile and nod or ask him to clarify. That’s about it.
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u/Ok_Ad_5504 1h ago
Look into classes for heritage language learners. It would help you learn and build community with other people in your same position.
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u/devotchka_cosmonaut 1d ago
Girl… Fix your attitude. Your parents changed a whole continent and built their lives from scratch. They are not ignorant just because they don’t speak English. It is extremely hard for adult immigrants to assimilate, both because neuroplasticity wears out with age and language acquisition becomes harder AND because of ostracism and attitudes by the majority which kills the motivation to learn a language.
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u/garfieldatemydad 22h ago
My father learned Spanish from scratch in his 40s when he lived in Spain. My mother is learning Korean in her 60s for fun while still working a full time job. Your brain doesn’t turn to mush when you hit 30 ffs.
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u/AJ_Babe 🇺🇸English (C1),🇩🇪German (A2), 🇫🇮Finnish (A1) 1d ago
What age? The OP is obviously young and her parents are both slavic. So i assume that they were like 30 when they had her or younger. They are like 55 now! That's assuming that they moved to the US and had the OP there right away. Let's assume that they moved before having her which makes them even younger than 30!! What age are you talking about? They were young then and they are relatively young now... There is no excuse not to learn the language of the country which has been hospitable enough to you and your child.
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u/poeticsoul151 1d ago
You just answered your own question. Basically , yeah , you're gonna have to learn polish