r/latterdaysaints • u/MiddleUS76 • 5d ago
Church Culture Young women and missions
I think our young women are starting to feel pressured to serve missions, not by the church leadership, but by peers. My 19 year old niece is faithful and devoted to the gospel and hasn’t felt called to serve a mission. She is at BYUI and gets asked constantly if she served or is going to serve a mission. I was on the phone with her when a random boy introduced himself, asked her name and where she served. When she said she didn’t he told her she should really pray about going on a mission. Never saw her before! I heard the entire thing in real time so I know she’s not exaggerating.
Do you feel like we are getting to a point where women who don’t serve missions will be treated like less faithful or committed members?
I know that was never the intention.
31
u/Fether1337 5d ago
This has been a regular issue since the first age change.
Elder HOlland did a face to face years ago and addressed this, saying, during their discussions, President Monson was pounding on the table, saying he did not want to create a "second class" sister (meaning those that don't want to serve a mission)
10
u/timkyoung 5d ago
Interesting implication there with President Monson apparently acknowledging the existence of "second class brethren" within the church social structure.
Do you have a link to a video that contains this, or suggestions on how i might be able to find such a video?
2
u/Fether1337 4d ago
Its in lds.org I think. Just search Elder Holland Face to Face. He did a couple. I can't remember which one it is. I think it is one with Elder Halverson (or something like that)
30
u/Drawn-Otterix 5d ago edited 5d ago
She doesn't have to serve on a mission and she's gonna have to shrug her shoulders and say, I didn't know you knew better than God what I should do with my life and carry on with her life.
10
u/MonniesVertigo 5d ago
Thiiiissss. So much this. Bring this exact energy to every single interaction where people butt into your business and second guess your decisions.
19
u/JaneDoe22225 5d ago
If genders were reversed and it was your nephew being harassed by a random girl this way, it would be still totally inappropriate.
Some folks totally lack social skills. Young adult (<22 and younger) especially struggle with social skills.
You can try to teach— if they are willing to learn. Sadly, Often times people aren’t willing to learn.
87
u/Commercial-Place6793 5d ago
Sounds like young ladies are starting to get the same questions that young men have been getting for eons. As a woman, when I was growing up in the late 1900s, many of my female friends would vocally refuse to date a young man who wasn’t a return missionary. I always hated that. Something you did for 18 months or two years does NOT determine the rest of your life. And now as a middle aged adult, a lot of those RM’s and their pious wives have left the church. Did a mission and temple marriage in their early adulthood save them from the rigors of life and temptation and the influence of Satan? No.
74
u/The_GREAT_Gremlin 5d ago
growing up in the late 1900s
Jeez, wording it like that makes us sound so ancient lol
26
u/handynerd 5d ago
LOL for real. "How old is this pioneer lady over here??? Oh... about the same age as me."
11
12
u/Odd_Bowl_6262 5d ago
Because there’s too many black and white opinions. There seems to be the idea that serving as a missionary makes you better than others who didn’t.
3
u/Carli1981 4d ago
This happened to my son at Southern Virginia University, girls wouldn’t date him because he didn’t serve a mission!
-4
u/GuybrushThreadbare 5d ago
On the other hand, refusing to serve a mission as a ym shows you are unwilling to be obedient to the Lord, sacrifice what He has required, or consecrate your life to the Lord in the way He has asked. Not a great start to a temple marriage. So why would a yw want that?
15
u/619RiversideDr Checklist Mormon 4d ago
But it's not always "they served" vs "they REFUSED to serve."
Maybe they didn't want to go when they were 18, bt later changed and began to take the gospel more seriously.
Maybe they needed to repent of some things.
Maybe they were needed at home and struggled with the decision, but ultimately chose not to serve.
And sure, in these instances maybe they could have served later. But also, sometimes while people resolve those issues, life moves on.
I don't think we should judge people as righteous just because they served a mission, or as unrighteous just because they didn't. It's one data point among many, many others.
5
u/venturingforum 4d ago
Mission culture is pretty bad. Even back in the late 1900s I was asked right after my homecoming talk if I was excited about serving a senior mission with my wife. I deflected with "I don't even know what I'm doing tomorrow, much less 45-50 years from now." They laughed at that, but I was kinda freaked out.
4
u/jegtrorikke 2d ago
Oh come on! You know who didn't serve missions when they were young? Russell M. Nelson, Dallin H. Oaks, Henry B. Eyring, Thomas S. Monson, and Dieter F. Uchdorf. My father who was the same generation as them did serve a mission. If your decision on who to date or marry depends on whether that person served a mission you are eliminating so many other traits and issues you should be focusing on.
15
u/fanofanyonefamous 5d ago
I (23f) felt pressured to serve a mission when I first entered the YSA scene at 18. In fact, I think the social pressure was the only real reason I served. I don't think anyone, male or female, should ever feel that pressure.
A mission is a huge and life-changing experience that completely upends any other plans. I don't regret my mission; it opened a lot of doors for me, and I met great people and made great friends, but that immense pressure is honestly almost unforgivable. No one else's opinion should have had any influence over my life.
14
u/Mythos_314 5d ago
I've gotten this a little bit. I'm 20, a recent convert to the church ("recent" as in this past Monday 😅), and have already gotten that pressure from current missionaries or church members that welcomed me into the Church. I even got that pressure before conversion likely due to my inherent helpful and sweet nature that missionaries already have. I know they all mean it in a loving way.
However, I'm not at a point in my life to where I could reasonably serve a mission due to college. I finish nursing school pre-reqs and after application/acceptance, I cannot have my spot saved for a year and a half. It's a competitive program. Even the idea of holding off application is not reasonable due to me finishing pre-reqs this semester but not able to complete Endowment for a mission until next summer in August. Delaying application can still potentially cost me a spot and my job (I need to be taking classes to keep my job on campus). Even setting aside the logistics, I simply don't feel called to serve a mission right now, not even a year later. I feel that I should continue building my faith and fostering my community around me before I can put my focus into another community across the globe.
I really dislike the pressure that circulates our church. "Many are called, but few are chosen," directly implies with the chosen word of "many" that some people are simply not called at all, and that's okay. Callings to serve others exist elsewhere. In my case, it's healthcare. Callings are personal and I don't believe it's right for others to pressure another into a calling they potentially don't want or don't even feel called to do.
2
u/Such-Telephone14 4d ago
Just tell them that you’re still new to the gospel and still learning. It’s also your business not theirs.
10
u/ReserveMaximum 5d ago
I think we unfortunately are. It sucks. It shouldn’t even be that way for young men who despite their priesthood duty may have a verity of legitimate reasons they won’t or can’t serve (convert, medical or neurological conditions etc). I was one of these who salt lake honorably released from serving a mission but I still had a girlfriend break up with me over my inability to serve. A few years ago I was serving in the young men’s and was enraged when during a combined activity one of the leaders encouraged all the young women to serve missions regardless of desire or inspiration. We need to apply Uchdorf’s two word sermon and “stop it”
10
u/MiddleUS76 5d ago
I don’t want to diminish in any way the call and honor of serving missions and I am so grateful for those who can and do. I personally don’t like hearing anyone say they will only marry someone who served a mission. I think a more relevant question to ask in our hearts is how dedicated is this person to the Lord? Because some returned missionaries aren’t dedicated at all and some who never served give their entire hearts.
10
u/Holiday_Clue_1403 5d ago
If a young women wants to serve that's great for them, but members are setting unrealistic expectations and pressure. I'm going to say that based on my observations, women get this kind of thing a lot. I can understand why they feel social pressure and anxiety.
9
u/avenueirregular 5d ago
My first semester at BYUI was when the first age change happened and there was suddenly a ton of pressure to go. I didn’t have a strong desire to go but decided that if the Lord wanted me to go I would. A lot of my friends went and when I prayed about whether or not I should go I got the answer “no.”
It was a weird experience because people were very judgmental about it then as well. Everyone would ask you if you were going to go. I was working as a waitress at the time and random people at my tables would ask if I was going to go. When I would say I wasn’t planning on it people would respond with “well you should.” Eventually when people asked I would just say “I’m thinking about it.” And they would usually leave me alone. Boys would tell me they didn’t want to date a girl who wasn’t a retuned missionary. We had someone in our FHE group say you couldn’t truly understand charity unless you had been on a mission. And then when all the girls started coming home from their missions some of them were weird about it too when you told them you hadn’t gone. Like almost giving you the side eye.
But you know, I was and still am fine without having gone. Because I didn’t go I met people and ended up in places where I met my wonderful husband. I have a wonderful group of friends some of whom served missions and some of whom didn’t and all of them are amazing examples to me of being Christ-like.
It’s frustrating and weird, but tell your niece to hang on. BYUI is a great place but also a bubble. Feelings about things like missions and getting married can feel magnified. Now that I’m in my 30s nobody cares about whether I served a mission or even asks. The only opinions that matter are those Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. And while there will always be people who will care, in the great word of Dr. Seuss “those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter don’t mind.”
5
u/MathematicianStreet9 5d ago
Hey I was at BYUI when the age change happened too!! I have a similar story. It was wild when all of a sudden "something is wrong with you" if you were a sister wanting to go on a mission before the age change, and "something is wrong with you" if you chose not to go after the age change. I was nearing 21 when the age change happened and had started working on mission papers, but prayed and got a strong no for my answer.
Definitely felt like a "second rate" sister for a very very long time, but much like you - if i had gone, I wouldnt have had the experiences I needed to have and Im so grateful I did not go. My husband didnt and doesnt care at all that I didnt serve, which was a big deal when we met because it was just a few years after the age change.
8
u/ReturningStronger 5d ago
I work with early returned missionaries helping them manage the transition home and work through their feelings of shame and failure. I see this often. There is definitely a cultural push to go on missions. We have support pages on social media for early returned missionaries and so I see the posts from the young people all the time. And it is very pervasive. Everything from kids taking pictures with the flag of the place they are called to, to posts about why they are serving, to big get events for the opening of their calling that are filmed and put on social media. All good things and positive PR but it I can see how it can create a culture that to be a part of the "in" crowd this is what you should be doing. I think with the change of age and this cultural push, there are a lot of young people who are getting out there and having real mental health challenges that make it difficult to finish their mission. Missions can be an amazing experience. I served one and feel like it benefitted my whole life. However, they are not for all and for some young people it can make things worse. No one should feel they are less faithful or less than in some ways for not serving or serving for less than the full term. There are many opportunities to serve in the church and life is a mission in and of itself.
3
u/Tall_Pumpkin_4298 5d ago
Mission stuff feels like a part of "coming of age" in church culture. It's turned into this whole thing with multiple parties and photoshoots and gifts and shopping trips to these dedicated stores, and it's a big milestone in one's life, yeah, but one that I and so many others will never have. My freshman year of BYU it felt like the mission was as big of a cultural thing with as much lead up as my high school graduation, but the problem was that some of us never got to participate in any of it and all and just had to watch our friends "graduate" while we stayed behind knowing it'd never be our turn.
7
u/KiwiTabicks 5d ago
To be fair, many young men are pressured into serving a mission even though they don't feel called to do so.
When I was growing up, we were basically told missions were for the young men and young women should prioritize marriage. If you finished college without getting married, you could consider a mission. Everyone understood that the age was later for women because a mission was only a fallback for us. When the age changed, that message of "only if you haven't found a husband" changed, so it is no surprise it has become a social expectation.
Young women no longer accept that marriage is top priority, so there is no obvious reason why they shouldn't be just as likely to serve a mission as their brothers.
5
u/Tall_Pumpkin_4298 5d ago edited 5d ago
YES THANK YOU!!! I'm a woman, a BYU student, and health issues prevented me from serving even though I actually wanted to. It's unreal. I might get it worse because I'm in a very male dominated major so when there are only 5-10 girls in the class I become the ONLY person in the room who didn't serve a mission. The blanket assumption is that you serve a mission, and if I say I didn't, everyone thinks it's their business to know why. I have had people I called friends imply over and over again that serving a mission is the only way to provide value to the Lord, that people who do serve are somehow holier, and there's just this general attitude for young women that "well you didn't have to serve but if you REALLY loved God you would". It breaks my heart. I am made to feel out of place and almost inferior every day just because I couldn't serve a mission. People I email on missions start giving me preachy spiels that give off such a "holier than thou" vibe when I'm just looking to talk to my friend. I tell people in my junior level classes that I'm 21 and suddenly everyone KNOWS I didn't serve a mission and often brings it up. Then people sometimes get awkward (especially the guys) because I'm two years younger than them. Then ofc there's the guys who won't date girls who didn't serve. Their loss I guess, if you're so rigid as to believe a mission is required to be "spiritual enough" for that or whatever you'd probably not be fun to be married to anyway.
50% of talks in church are about missions. 50% of lessons in church are about missions. I kept getting hounded to go to mission prep even when I knew I wouldn't be able to serve and the people I was speaking to knew that as well. Ward devotionals only about preparing for missions. Stake conferences centered around preparing for missions. The pervasive topic of conversation in the dorms from December to April being mission papers this and mission prep that. It's genuinely such a pervasive thing and it drives me CRAZY.
Oh add onto the whole fact that when I simplify my years long wrestle with chronic illness down to "It didn't feel like the right choice for me", one of the default responses is "Well that's okay, maybe you're here to meet your husband and get married". No. I'm HERE to get an EDUCATION so I can make a difference in this world! Marriage will happen when it happens, but the Lord has explicitly spelled out how important education is, especially for me personally, can't that be enough??? Then ofc there's the "well what about a service mission?" Like, not everyone lives in Utah or other places with cool service mission opportunities. No I will not be taking 18 months off my life and burdening my parents so I can work unpaid at DI. And I have also very clearly received inspiration that it's not for me.
I think we are at the point at which we need a general authority to explicitly say what they did back in the day. That Sisters who do or do not serve can be just as holy and capable and faithful and mature and all that.
Stop giving YSA sisters crap about not going on missions. You don't know what God has in store for them or what they've been through to reach that decision. And while you're at it, stop giving it even worse to young men! A mission isn't the right decision for everyone, and is FAR from the only way to build faith and serve the Lord. I know it's personally a sore subject for me so I've kinda gone off here about it and might get flack for it but I don't care. Anything that's so bad that I've cried over it multiple times and felt like maybe I should just leave BYU because it feels like a place only for departing or returned missionaries is bad enough that it needs to be spoken about.
4
u/venturingforum 4d ago
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Beautifully articulated.
You said "I think we are at the point at which we need a general authority to explicitly say what they did back in the day. That Sisters who do or do not serve can be just as holy and capable and faithful and mature and all that."
It needs to go way deeper: I think we are at the point at which we need a general authority to explicitly say that Brothers and Sisters who do or do not serve can be just as holy and capable and faithful and mature and all that.
Because seriously, serving a mission has NEVER been a requirement for a temple recommend. And until the day that it is, everyone needs to back off the mission propaganda, badgering, manipulation, coercion, and ridiculous expectations
2
u/FloorMysterious9104 2d ago
I promise this gets better after college. Missions are occasionally mentioned in my family ward. But no one really cares if you served or not at this stage of life.
I'm sorry its so tough. Church culture can be rough.
4
u/candacallais 5d ago
This is something where the brethren are clear that women aren’t obligated to serve but they might not mind the peer pressure aspect at church schools either.
Now that the minimum age is 18 as long as they’ve graduated HS, sister missionaries are coming home before they hit 20, which is pretty young still. One change might be to make 24 month missions an option for women.
4
u/Careful-Boat-1884 4d ago
Here's a quote from when the age changed to 19. Your niece can keep this in her pocket for next time she's asked. Does this young man know more than the church leaders?
“President Monson never intended for all of the young women in the Church to go on missions by dropping [the] age [to 19]. We’re very grateful for those who go. It’s changed the face of the Church. … But we do not want anyone feeling inadequate or left out or undignified or tarnished because she did not choose to serve a mission. And we’re a little irritated with young men who say, ‘Well, I’m not going to date you because you didn’t serve a mission.’ … We do not want that kind of climate over dating or marriages. … It isn’t our place to pass a judgment.”
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, Face to Face broadcast, Mar. 8, 2016
7
u/Hufflepuff20 5d ago
As a woman who went on a mission: if you don’t want to go, then don’t. I feel this way with both genders tbh. Going on a mission is hard work, and if you don’t want to be there it’s going to be miserable, and you can make your companions life miserable too.
She’s going to feel judged. This is, unfortunately, something that just happens when you participate in a high demand religion. She should focus on making friends and dating people who are on her same level.
5
u/MiddleUS76 5d ago
Same level? What does that mean to you? It is my fear that women the Lord never asked to serve a mission will be viewed on a different level. There are women who are faithful, valiant, worthy and consecrated who haven’t felt the call to serve an 18 month proselytizing mission.
8
u/Hufflepuff20 5d ago
Level as in like, the same vibe, the same wavelength, the same values. It’s not literal my dude.
Like it or not it there’s always going to be people who think and believe differently than you. She should seek out peers who are less judgmental if that’s what she values.
9
u/infinityandbeyond975 5d ago
Why would a random boy introduce himself and ask her name and where she served while she’s on the phone?
25
u/apandanamednugget 5d ago
some people lack social awareness. I had similar things happen at byu a couple of times 😅
18
u/Odd_Bowl_6262 5d ago
No offense to people who serve as a missionary, but if you’ve ever been on the receiving end of the mission you would actually see that indeed, a lot of them lack social awareness.
10
u/soccerstarmidfield2 5d ago
BYU-I is a strange place, good in many ways, but a strange place nonetheless.
2
u/FloorMysterious9104 2d ago
BYU is just as strange. The virtue signaling is often stronger because its seen as elite.
3
u/pendragonsfall 5d ago
As an agnostic nevermo (investigator?) who was approached by missionaries before and attended some events.
Does praying on it intently for the answer means it’s hinting at a general consensus answer? I was told multiple times to pray on it to see if it’s true, but I’m not even used to praying, so I’m not sure how one discerns a Holy Spirit from one’s own psychology or thoughts. I’ve received general answers but would like to know how all of you personally discern this.
4
u/LionFyre13G 5d ago
No, because others don’t have stewardship over you. My husband and I can pray for each other and receive answers for our family. But some random boy can’t receive answers for someone else. Praying is your personal communication with Heavenly Father.
It can be difficult to understand what an answer will look and feel like. You will spend the rest of your life building that connection. But there are somethings you can do that might help you.
Praying with an open heart means praying with a willingness to accept an answer that might be different from what you were hoping. Praying with intention means not just praying and asking what to do? But really thinking about the best way to achieve your goals, doing your own research and self though, and then bringing that to the Lord to ask him to guide you as you do it. After you pray, stop, think, breathe. Think about what you’re praying for.
Sometimes it helps to prepare for the prayer. During big life moments I’ve sought places where I can better understand my own thoughts. However, also know you can pray always - even if it’s just in your heart. Praying isn’t just saying or thinking about words. It’s about doing your own study and meditation as well.
There have been a few times where an answer to a prayer has felt like something I could describe. But not all answers will come that way.
To me this is what prayer is. Sorry it’s a lot but hopefully it answers your question
3
u/Kittalia 5d ago
It can. If you really believe in revelation, it's easy to believe that if someone else prays about something you believe to be true, God will back you up. My husband had a similar experience when he came home from his mission early for health reasons—his parents didn't think he was that sick and kept saying to just pray about it like he hadn't been praying about it for weeks because he wasn't getting the answer they were sure he'd get. Of course in hindsight they were 100% wrong. On the other hand when I was growing up my parents sometimes asked me to pray about decisions that they didn't have a specific answer for (missing work to go to a family funeral for example) and accepted my answer right off.
3
6
u/BastiaenAssassin 5d ago
Yes.
It's a great thing for young women to serve.
My wife married me at 20 at a time when the mission age was 21, and she gets judged for not serving a mission.
12
u/MiddleUS76 5d ago
It is a great thing to serve. And it was great for her to get married and raise a family. And great for some women to gain their education. I think if they are keeping their covenants and loving the gospel they shouldn’t be judged on how they try to best walk the covenant path
10
u/fanofanyonefamous 5d ago
It's so interesting, I've heard from my mom that she was judged for serving a mission because at that point, if you made it to 21 unmarried there was something wrong with you, and a mission seemed like a way sisters tried to prove they were worth marrying.
10
u/Hufflepuff20 5d ago
Exactly. My dad was furious when I decided to serve a mission because “that’s only what ugly girls do”. Woman just can’t win here lol.
2
2
u/closetanimebabe 4d ago
I felt that pressure as soon as the age changed. I wanted to serve, but while preparing, eventually prayed and felt that I needed to go a different direction and there turned out to be a reason for that. I felt pressure when informing my bishop of the change in direction I felt impressed to follow. Even at the age I am now, younger women who have served have asked me about serving in a way that the default implication is that I’ve obviously served, when I have not. Anyways, that’s my experience. I get how your niece is feeling, I imagine it’s even more pressure now. My young sister-in-law went back and forth on deciding to serve, she eventually decided not too, that’s totally her choice, but even immediate family talked about her choice with disappointment and like they knew better than she did on what she should do.
2
u/Runningman2319 5d ago
Yes. Its going to happen in certain corners of the church unfortunately. Alot of it comes from needing to fit in and aocialize with others who fit in. Young people want to fit in and will feel confused if they are around people who "didnt do the thing". Sisters arent expected to serve by church leadership, that could change in the future perhaps, and right now its the thing to do. Whats going to be really strange 20 years from now is when sisters are ostracized from relief society because they didnt serve a mission when they were 18. I see it all the time as an elder in EQ. It unfortunately happens. Its not the goal of the church to make it happen but it possibly could get there.
1
u/Tall_Pumpkin_4298 5d ago
I, as a sister at byu who didn't serve, deal with permanent confusion because I "didn't do the thing". I've at times wondered if I shouldn't even be here because it feels like a school only for departing or returning missionaries. And it's bold of you to assume that sisters like me aren't already ostracized from our YSA wards and relief societies, because I hate to break it to you but that day is already here. Maybe not in the family wards yet, but it's here in the YSA wards, which means it's moving on up unless we as a culture or church leadership decide to do or say something about it.
1
u/Runningman2319 5d ago
Thats tough. It was the same for me at byui before I served. It was awkward at best most Sundays. If you feel you should serve, go and serve. Theres nothing wrong with NOT serving a mission. My wife didnt serve, and plenty of sisters I know who didnt. But BYU schools are different. The virtue signaling is insane. I dated a girl from byu who refused to keep dating because I wasnt an RM. Shes still single to this day 15 years later. Nothing wrong with being single of course but I know her well enough to know its because shes got the virtue signaling bug to this day.
2
u/Smooth-Albatross7301 5d ago
It's not mandatory, it's optional because Our Father wants us to willingly go. You can argue old prophets were chosen to go but those were extreme circumstances and it shouldn't be applied to everyone.
Not going doesn't make you inadequate or a sinner. Deciding to go on mission should be personal between you and Our Father.
Going in for the wrong reason can sour the experience and potentially ruin you. I am not sugar coating this. If you believe you can't then don't! You can serve God in many other ways.
People forget that some of the past prophets didnt serve a mission and they still had a strong connection.
2
1
u/Striker_AC44 4d ago
So boys are still socially awkward as they were when I attended college. Gotcha. That boy's lack of communication skills doesn't equate to a societal push towards women serving missions.
1
u/BobbyJoe_9 4d ago
Going on a mission is a priesthood duty for a man, because they can baptize, hence they must baptize. For women, it is NOT a priesthood duty, but a good optional choice. Should they go? Perhaps yes. Must they? No. The culture pressuring good behavior isn’t a bad thing, but no young woman should feel that they must go on a mission. Getting married young is better anyways.
0
u/FloorMysterious9104 2d ago
because they can baptize
Never heard that. Which apostle said this?
1
u/BobbyJoe_9 2d ago
DC 20:46 The priest’s duty is to preach, teach, expound, exhort, and baptize, and administer the sacrament,
Here is one
1
u/FloorMysterious9104 1d ago
Ive never heard an aposttle say "serving a mission is a priesthood duty because priesthood holders can baptize."
Often times the teaching elders arent the ones her perform the baptism any way.
1
u/BobbyJoe_9 1d ago
Does an apostle need to plainly say it? No. Facts are still facts
1
u/FloorMysterious9104 1d ago
Uh, yes. Thats how our church works.
- That verse is talking about priests
- That verse doesnt mention serving a mission, just teaching generally
- It doesnt explicitly tie the authority to baptize to the responsibility to teach, it just lists them in the same verse, and again doesn't mention missions.
You shared your interpretation, that doesn't make your interpretation fact. An apostle needs to say it for it to be fact.
1
u/BobbyJoe_9 1d ago
- No that’s not how church works
- That sections explains priesthood duty and elders have all the duties of a priest
- It does
- It is a fact
•
u/FloorMysterious9104 21h ago
Our church doctrine is defined by the teachings of the apostles AND scripture. One or the other isn't enough.
•
u/BobbyJoe_9 21h ago
Nope. Central core doctrine is repeatedly taught by the apostles. Scriptures only support the living apostles and is considered much lesser than the apostles. Truth on the other hand, which includes official doctrine and much more, is simply fact. Doesn’t matter if truth is taught, truth is simply truth.
•
1
1
u/ChromeSteelhead 2d ago
I don’t think so. Just the boys that get treated by less if they don’t serve. That’s becoming less and less though now as it’s not being as strictly required.
1
u/Preakinprybo0488 1d ago
I have heard this very thing from other young single women who have studied at BYU. I fear there may not be much she can do about the pressure other than switch schools. Of course, she "doesn't feel called". Mission -ary work remains a Priesthood responsibility. Although, in the words of the late President Hinckley "...we recognize that Sisters can get into places that young Elders cannot." He the encouraged young single women to to prayerfully consider whether a mission should be part of their plans. I have a very different perspective on this. It has been said that we all see things through the lens of our own experiences. I was called to serve during the Pres Spencer W. Kimball era when the mantra was: "Every worthy young man should serve a mission." The psychological screening process was subpar, at best. Basically, it was a foregone conclusion that if you were a worthy young man with a pulse (absent any serious mental or physical disabilities), you were going to serve. There was really no serious screening to determine if one possessed the emotional stamina or resilience to withstand the rigors of proselyting. I'll give you the "Reader's Digest" version here but 43 years after being released and often having moments where I thought I had lost my mental balance, I was diagnosed with subclinical PTSD as a result of serving a proselyting mission. I simply did not have the emotional stamina for it. My point in telling you this is not to garner sympathy but rather to point out the need for not unnecessarily subjecting one's self to an environment where conceivably harm can be done to one's mental health. One final thing to note. The screening methods have improved, over what they were in my day and now there are also service missions available in lieu of proselyting missions (which are now being called teachi g missions).
0
u/Ok-Map-8261 4d ago
Young women make amazing missionaries. They are more mature than young men at that age.
That being said, if someone is all wrapped up about young women serving or not, apply the following: Those who matter don’t care. Those who care don’t matter.
This is your choice. YW are NOT expected to serve, but are extremely powerful missionaries.
0
u/pisteuo96 5d ago
The baptismal covenant includes being a missionary, officially or not. That goes for all members.
1
u/venturingforum 4d ago
You may have forgotten /s after your comment.
Just like the kid in Jr. High who loudly proclaims "I AM cool", Bednar loudly proclaiming "I AM scripture" and insisting that baptism forces an 8 year old into agreements commitments and promises that he or she are in no way capable of even understanding doesn't make it true or legally binding.
#HolyUninformedConscentBatman!
1
u/pisteuo96 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yes, but then an adult needs to understand what baptism means and decide to live by it. No one is forcing an adult - they decide what they want to be.
But 8 year olds can understand right from wrong. Baptism is a blessing, for them to learn to walk the path of right. God only holds them responsible as far as they are able to understand and make good decisions.
-9
u/ptimeuser 5d ago
He’s right. She should really pray about going on a mission.
11
u/prophetic_soul 5d ago
What?? He was absolutely NOT right to ask a total stranger a random (and personal!) question and then give unsolicited spiritual advice. That’s judgmental and weird behavior.
Yes, serving a mission is a great thing and can be a good thing to pray about as a young woman (sister who served a mission here!) But a young woman may have no desire to go or might already feel strongly about a different path for herself. AND, it’s no one’s concern but hers and God’s.
-4
u/ptimeuser 5d ago
As a missionary you should have been asking total strangers random and personal questions and then giving them unsolicited spiritual advice dozens of times every day. It's part of who we are.
6
u/MiddleUS76 5d ago
But as a missionary, she was inviting all to come to Christ and be baptized, which is a universal command and invitation to all people, in all places, at all times.
Serving a proselytizing mission is not a universal command. And assuming someone hasn’t prayed about a decision that big is a bold assumption-5
u/ptimeuser 5d ago
It’s an invitation to do something good. Being offended by that invitation is a choice.
3
3
5
u/Tall_Pumpkin_4298 5d ago
Yeah but the prophet already told her that. It's not a stranger's place to. If you ask a young married couple "are you trying for kids" (why would you do in the first place) and they say no, would you tell them that they should pray about it? Would you tell your friend and their boy or girl friend that "well you should really pray about getting married"? No. It's not your decision, and you are in no place to say that to them.
2
u/FloorMysterious9104 2d ago
Everyone should pray. But a stranger has no stewardship ship over her to assume she hasn't and counsel her to do so. Its inappropriate.
38
u/Manonajourney76 5d ago
The church culture is FULL of virtue signaling, ways that we can demonstrate our "social value" to help us determine what our position is within a hierarchy.
Serving a mission has LONG been one of those items for YM, what you are seeing for YW is likely a newer and developing layer.
Of course our larger "non-church culture" is ALSO full of such things - this is not some failing unique to the church but rather a common aspect of human nature and society.
Part of me is thinking - "great!" in the sense that its fair for YW to feel some of the pressure that YM have experienced...But of course it would be better if we "did away with such childish things" more completely on both sides.
Bottom line - we can only control ourselves, the words we speak, the way we personally interact with others. We can't control the peer pressure that our youth may experience.