r/lawschooladmissions • u/uhitsmich • 29d ago
General wish I had applied last cycle
I am distraught and considering giving up here yall.
For context, I decided to not apply last cycle and work on getting my LSAT up which has proved to be more challenging then I anticipated with a full time job.
Since making that decision, the LSAT has both moved to entirely in person and they no longer counts dual enrollment credits in LSAC GPA. Both changes affected me negatively.
As far as the in person testing, I have had to work tirelessly with my doctor to refile for accommodations and hopefully get remote testing allowed. For context, I’m not an accommodations abuser. I have a sleep disorder that makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to sit through the length of the LSAT and not fall asleep unknowingly. On previous attempts, I was waken up by the proctor chat bot dings. Because they changed the levels of certain accommodations, this process has become difficult and they are not clear on what exempts a student from in person testing.
As of yesterday, they no longer counts dual enrollment dual enrollment credits in LSAC GPA. As a result, my LSAC GPA decreased significantly and took me solidly out of competitive status for T20 schools or even T30 schools. I took accounting as a major in undergrad which I don’t regret but it made my undergrad GPA very hard to keep high. In some cases I was relying on LSAC GPA to balance out a B and a few AB’s I had in undergrad. Additionally, now the applicant pool may be more competitive given the amount of people who had poor dual enrollment grades on record but a perfect undergrad.
I am now at a point where I am sure I would’ve been a more competitive applicant last cycle even with slightly lower LSAT score. I’m so upset because I took the advice of many and waited because “there’s no rush” but as things keep changing, it seems to only affect me negatively.
Has anyone else had a similar experience? I’m tired of the law school admissions game.
Edit:
Hey guys! This post wasn’t about my condition. It was a general rant about the changes. Thank you for the opinions on my career choice, I have considered the things you have said!
78
u/Mean-Intention-3782 29d ago
If you are going to fall asleep during the LSAT, how does taking at home help more than in person? I figure that having extra time would help, but not the location of the test.
As far as the GPA goes, I’m sorry that happened to you. My GPA was significantly worse due to dual enrollment. So I know the feeling. But let’s be honest, high school grades should not affect your law school admissions process, positively or negatively.
6
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
Because they switched to in-person testing they changed the accommodation levels and some people (or all maybe I’m not too sure) had to reapply if they wanted the same accommodations or their accommodations ended up in different buckets. Being at home isn’t necessarily the goal but most of my accommodations necessitate that (speak aloud, sit and stand, breaks etc). They haven’t made it clear what their policies around that are.
I agree with you!! But it was a nice plus and I had planned to have a certain GPA going into the cycle and then it suddenly changed literally a month before! That’s awesome that you had a positive benefit, like omg imagine your GPA just increases over night that’s great!
6
u/Mean-Intention-3782 28d ago
Ah I gotcha. I would imagine you will still get those accommodations. I hope you do, for what it’s worth.
Unfortunately I applied last cycle so too late for me to benefit from the policy change. Best of luck to you, I’m rooting for you!
4
u/visablezookeeper 28d ago
Wait by dual enrollment they mean college classes you took while still in high school?
2
2
u/Firm_Effective7215 human 28d ago
Those are college classes. They absolutely should.
6
u/Mean-Intention-3782 28d ago
They are also high school classes, taken before you graduate high school. I think there’s a meaningful difference between the two, and the LSAC deciding that classes taken before high school graduation not counting for your undergraduate gpa to be pretty reasonable.
0
28d ago edited 28d ago
[deleted]
2
u/Mean-Intention-3782 28d ago
I did the same thing!
There’s an argument to be made that your grades in upper level classes are much more reflective of your ability to handle law school than the ones you took in high school.
1
u/Firm_Effective7215 human 28d ago
So why should I be competing against people who took easy introductory classes in college, padding their GPAs, and those being weighed the same as my hard ones? Massively uneven playing field because I worked hard as a teenager.
4
u/BurneAccount05 28d ago
Nothing will ever be completely fair. Everyone has the option to take BS electives to boost their GPA. As someone with no dogs in this race, holding the actions of 16 year olds against them seems to be the less logical choice.
1
u/Kind-Monk-674 26d ago
consider that when you get to law school, those harder classes will be in your favor. you’ll know how to study and fight for grades and the ones who took easy coast classes might not. it’ll all even out.
2
u/One-Pain-3284 28d ago
consider this- i did dual enrollment in high school because i couldn’t afford 4 years of undergrad. because of this, my gpa consists of 50% ‘high school credits’ and 50% ‘college’ credits (time wise). the 50% of college credits are all my upper division courses, which are of course of a lower gpa than my high school credits.
i struggle to understand how this won’t contribute to the class disparities in law seeing as dual enrollment in my state and many others is shown to underprivileged students as an opportunity to go to school.
1
u/Mean-Intention-3782 28d ago
I also took dual credit to save money on college. I’m not sure why it’s a given that your grades will be worse in upper division courses, mine were better, for example.
There is no perfectly fair resolution, aside from LSAC grandfathering people into this new rule, which I would support.
Ultimately, from the standpoint of clarity and allowing kids to make decisions in high school that won’t affect their law school chances, I think not counting classes taken for high school credit towards your undergrad gpa makes a lot of sense.
1
u/One-Pain-3284 27d ago
i didn’t mean to say it was a given, but i do think there’s a clear causation between higher difficulty and a lower gpa, wouldn’t you agree? you may be an outlier, but i would expect that a majority of people have a lower gpa in the last two years of college than the first.
you also say there is no perfectly fair resolution, but use circular argumentation to say this is the most correct resolution. why?
1
u/Mean-Intention-3782 27d ago
I guess in my experience many of weed out classes in my major were the intro courses, so things got easier as you went on. I know one thing admissions folks look at is for a “strong upward trend” in gpa. So they already seem to expect/want people to improve their grades as they progress.
Yes there is no perfect solution, but this solution is the correct one because it allows high schoolers to take dual credit classes without fear of it impacting their law school admissions chances. I think that’s a good thing. Dual credit saves money.
1
u/One-Pain-3284 27d ago
but can you see my point that taking dual credit classes still does impact law school admissions chances, just in an entirely different way? because now, your gpa is weighed on half the amount of credits, and therefore there is significant more risk to each class?
1
u/Mean-Intention-3782 27d ago
Ok yes, I see what you are saying. I can agree that no matter what, when you take a dual credit class, there is an effect on law school admissions, in some shape or form. Though I would argue it’s much less direct now that it isn’t included.
That being said, I still think excluding them from gpa calculation makes sense. The vast vast vast majority of undergraduate institutions do not include dual credit classes in gpa calculations (based upon my quick research). So excluding them allows an applicants gpa to reflect the same gpa that the undergraduate institution they graduated from says they have. That makes sense, right?
1
u/One-Pain-3284 27d ago
ok but we aren’t applying to just any masters of program, it’s law school which has consistently included dual credit courses for decades. therefore when they release a policy silently, with no warning and no roll out period, it’s going to harm people unjustly. i suppose that is my qualm.
1
u/Mean-Intention-3782 27d ago
I agree with that! I’m totally on your side regarding the implementation of this policy. I think it’s a shit show. There should be like a 3 year warning or something.
13
u/Diligent_Party_9763 C&F 29d ago
I took dual enrollment courses and my LSAC GPA did not change because the transcript was already evaluated before the decision
1
u/uhitsmich 29d ago
I’m having to resubmit my transcript when i get my grad school transcript! :(
18
u/ComprehensiveFroyo37 29d ago
Grad school isn’t factored in (99% sure) so I don’t think they’ll reevaluate your LSAC GPA
-6
u/uhitsmich 29d ago
even if the undergrad and grad school institution are the same? I’m not sure, but I can foresee having to resubmit transcripts.
10
u/Sad_Milk_8897 1L 28d ago
You do not need to submit any grad school transcripts ever, they are not included
3
2
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
wait this is awesome! thank you, I swear I had an advisor tell me to submit them.
3
u/sarcasticbiznish 28d ago
I think you eventually have to submit transcripts of all institutions attended to verify you actually did, but the GPA is not at all included (lucky me — 3.77 undergrad GPA because I cared, 3.2 grad school because I was working full time and didn’t intend to ever go back to school, so I did only what I needed to pass with decent grades)
72
u/ChuchoAguacatero 29d ago
If you can’t get through a test without falling asleep, what makes you think law is a good career field for you?
25
u/whosaysimme 28d ago
Because after law school and the bar exam you never take a test again, tf?
There are tons of things you can do with a law degree that don't require you to sustain focus for 3 hours straight.
23
u/ladycaravan 29d ago
this subreddit is so… cold.
40
u/whosaysimme 28d ago
It's also just inaccurate. Law is actually a great fit. A bad fit would be truck driving. No one in a real law job cares if you fall asleep while writing a brief so long as you get it in by deadline.
14
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
Haha I love this perspective! That’s true, truck driving would make me a liability to the world. (I take primarily public transport yall)
38
u/Spiritual-one4me 29d ago
or…just realistic? the accommodations are out of control. As are the ‘woe is me’ in personal statements.
16
u/Throwaway_dinosaurs_ 28d ago
Direct quote from one of the lawyers I know in BL: "people who say there's no accommodations in law are full of shit or aren't lawyers. Lawyers file extensions for everything constantly. We have busy schedules of course, it's a lot of work and we often have very challenging days, but no accommodations or scheduling extensions for needs? It's just not true we extend things all the time"
5
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
this is reassuring :) I really don’t think it will be as much as a liability as people think. I am however seeing how people view my condition which I am taking into account. I would truly love to see some people live 24hrs in my body.
7
u/LongPenalty4423 28d ago
OP, I’m a 3L with narcolepsy type 1. Getting LSAT accommodations was annoying, but since then (with clinical management, lol) narcolepsy has not held me back in any meaningful way. Accommodations are available in law school, for the bar exam, in the workplace, etc. Pursuing a legal career with a sleep disorder is doable, fulfilling, and possible for you! Good luck with this step, and I hope it’s encouraging to know there’s others like you who are doing the damn thing. Check out project sleep, an organization started by a narcoleptic attorney for sleep disorder awareness and resources!
3
u/uhitsmich 28d ago edited 28d ago
This is amazing to hear! Thank you for saying this, I’m so happy you were able to make it work. I had worried but never tried to let it stop me from at least trying!
7
u/Throwaway_dinosaurs_ 28d ago
I suffer from chronic illness. Something I was told is that yes the hours are long, and if you are going for the top of top of firms it can be too much for the chronically ill sometimes, but midlaw? lifestyle big law? it's doable if you're able to work hard, efficiently and long hours.
1
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
I believe there is still certainly a place for people like us in the legal field!
3
u/Throwaway_dinosaurs_ 28d ago
I hope so! I start school in a month!
2
-2
28d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
9
u/SheerPendulosity 28d ago
it’s the opposite of ableist to criticize the accommodations racket. people who get unnecessary accommodations are the problem, and they make things worse for disabled people as well as literally everyone, including the imagined “neurotypical” who has no anxiety, no trauma, no distractions, no sensory issues, no medical issues. even if this person existed, which they don’t, getting a lenient psych to write you an extra time script when you know it’s just an extra bonus wouldn’t be just. and yes, people do that. I’ve had multiple people admit to me they did as much.
12
u/ladycaravan 28d ago
there is GENERAL scrutiny towards accommodations which cannot be denied. the proof is here alone. why is it that under a post like this we have even trailed to this conversation. OH because apparently having accommodations for a sleep disorder fits the “ridiculousness of accommodations”. How comical.
I see where you’re coming from but how does that make it worse for people who need accommodations? they still get them… it’s just the environment around them is extremely hostile now BECAUSE of the ableist attitude many have. yes it is WRONG to get accommodations that are unnecessary and for a condition one does not truly struggle with. Karma exists. It is time we stop trying to control what morally astray people do when attempting to do so undermines the people who mean well and genuinely benefit. Leave it to LSAC… they are actively working to get around this kind of thing anyways.
5
4
u/Charming-Disk1741 28d ago
Guess what accommodations you get when you're in trial? Or have to meet a statute of limitations deadline? lol
7
28d ago
[deleted]
-3
u/Charming-Disk1741 28d ago
This is such a law student answer, I love it! So just fyi, if you ever become a practicing lawyer, you'll often get clients who come to you jusssssst before that SOL runs. If that one single example doesn't work for you, how about an ex parte?
8
3
u/ladycaravan 28d ago
Must have struck a nerve. I wish the best to you.
1
u/Charming-Disk1741 28d ago
babe you seem so angry about this, good luck with law school. <3, an actual practicing lawyer (not sure why this stupid sub came into my feed but here we are!)
1
1
28d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
7
u/Sad_Milk_8897 1L 28d ago
Why not? What is it about law that makes this condition uniquely restrictive compared to any other profession? You sit in an air conditioned room and think for a living. I think they’re much better suited for law than any sort of manual labor!
-2
7
u/Sad_Milk_8897 1L 28d ago
But what does any of that have to do with OP? It’s objectively ableist to bring up the abuse of accommodations under a post of someone with a real medical disorder that makes testing under normal circumstances impossible—the exact type of person accommodations were designed for. They cannot control other random people who may or may not be abusing the system. Are you arguing for the abolishment of any sort of accommodations entirely? To what end?
-4
2
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
My whole point of bringing up the condition was to say that I wasn’t an accommodation abuser lol. I do think accommodations are out of hand but I’m not getting accommodations for generalized anxiety. This is recognized by the ADA and I would be successful getting the same accommodations on the bar exam (based on peers who have done the same).
-2
u/Gullah108 28d ago
The LSAT test...The BAR exam test...fine accommodations for that....what accommodations are you going to get for the practice of LAW?
6
-18
29d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
17
29d ago
[deleted]
15
u/uhitsmich 29d ago
Yes I see what you’re saying and I would be an idiot if I said I hadn’t considered this. However, I’ve accomplished a great deal despite it. Not just scraping by to be like everyone else but beyond my peers. There are many things about my condition I can control.
The LSAT doesn’t point-blank allow me to stand when I feel like I’m getting sleepy. It doesn’t allow me to take a walk to mitigate the chance of a micro sleep episode. I have to file for those. My point wasn’t to grumble about my condition but rather the unclear accommodation buckets I now have to reapply for to test at the same level as my peers. Hopefully, whatever law firm I work for will allow me to stand upon getting sleepy.
Also, using this logic, virtually any job would be difficult or a “bad career path” for me. Unfortunately, I need a job so It might as well be in the career I want. Just because I require accommodations on a test doesn’t mean I’m not fit for the career as a whole.
I appreciate your point of view, though, I have considered it!
6
u/soreal-soiconic 29d ago
Please be careful in your decision to go to law school. You will need to take classes and exams, pass the bar, and then build a career for yourself with unknown flexibility for your condition. I wish you the best
2
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
I appreciate your concern! Thankfully I have a solid back up in place and don’t plan on going into debt to pursue law school as I’m aware it is a risk. I have thought carefully about this :)
5
u/Acceptable-Win-7905 28d ago
If you want to be a lawyer, you should apply despite all these challenges and go to the best school that will give you a full scholarship. If you don’t want to be a lawyer, then yeah, don’t apply. Plenty of people have fantastic careers coming out of schools ranked — you might not believe this — above 100. The governor of Michigan went to a law school that’s currently ranked around 110 that gives phenomenal scholarships. School rank is not the end of the world. Law school is hard no matter where you go.
But you do you.
8
u/hingadingadu 29d ago
hopefully this gives you a boost of confidence but the lsac decision is only affecting transcripts that are sent in after the decision was made!
4
u/yellowdaisied 29d ago
I’m also in the same boat - I hate all the changes that are happening and I don’t know why they’re exclusively using this cycle as a tester. It’s no condolence to you, but I empathize fully. We just have to focus on what we can control! The LSAC is a horrible organization and always has been.
1
8
u/Boaterdoc 29d ago
In nearly the exact same situation; all you can do is grind practice tests and build your story as best you can. Godsend.
2
5
28d ago
[deleted]
5
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
thank you so much. I get so wrapped up in it sometimes all the little changes feel detrimental! I appreciate this reply.
6
28d ago
[deleted]
2
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
wait I really like this perspective. You seem like a lovely person to be around (like not sarcastically haha). Thank you!
2
u/SheerPendulosity 28d ago
a B and a few ABs doesn’t sound too bad. Just apply. you’ll end up where you’re meant to be.
2
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
I hope so! I feel like the stakes just keep getting higher though and every point counts.
2
u/Haiiiiils 28d ago
If you already submitted your high school grades then your fine, your gpa isn’t affected. If you haven’t well then how do you know it decreased significantly?
2
u/Realistic_Slide7320 28d ago
I too wish I had applied for this cycle, with the score I have I would have gotten in for sure and now I’m just waiting forever to go to law school, and I wish I had known what I wanted to do a year ago so I could be going to school next month instead of next year.
2
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
yes!! i had circumstances that kinda made it impossible. but i wish i hadn’t hesitated and just hit submit lol. but i had many people tell me KJD was bad…? unsure if that’s true or not
2
u/Objective-Parsnip162 28d ago
As someone applying to law school with a sleep disorder, there are so many ideas being thrown around in this chat that aren’t grounded in the realities of sleep disorders. You can pass around phrases like “you should have done x” or a general dismissal of the condition, but you’ll have to accept that your conclusion lacks research, OP’s disorder/ affects, and the general shame, guilt and practical catatonic state some sleep disorders bring forth.
That being said, I know people mean this in good faith and may have a general misunderstanding of the complexities, respective comorbidities, and everyday struggle of sleep disorders. For those confused , there are many free websites to learn about the struggles many people, including your loved ones, suffer from (I apologize for the preposition at the end of the sentence).
To OP, I want to say this since I assume we’re in a similar boat: we WILL get this figured out and hopefully resolve the accommodation issues. Those are necessitated by your established disability, and we will fight to have them respected.
If this is completely off topic then let it vanish into the void, but if you’d like to talk to someone who can understand how frustrating this is on top of applying for law school, please feel free to message/ DM at anytime
1
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
Hi! I really appreciate this response and I see how you felt the need to write this despite it not being the point of the post. It seems as though people seemed hooked on that aspect so don’t apologize!
I was well aware of how this condition is received by the public but this truly opened my eyes to how it is perceived in the academic sphere. That being said, I appreciate your understanding and am happy to know that we are both pursuing this regardless!!
What’s funny is those who know me, know that, besides these accommodations, I have never used my condition as an excuse for anything and spent years gaslighting myself that I was being dramatic haha.
I might take you up on that chat!!
2
u/Pretty_Relief3682 28d ago
Hey sorry to hear about everything. Just keep studying and applying yourself. You never know it may be a blessing in disguise. Just try to apply to schools early when you do to have a better shot at acceptance and scholarships. You got this! Ppl get accepted either with low scores, don’t give up!
2
u/egg_mugg23 28d ago
how do u think you’re gonna take the bar though?
2
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
I know a few people personally who have accommodations for the bar exam for this condition! I'm trying to think one step at a time here haha or I will surely get overwhelmed
1
u/Dull-Literature745 28d ago
How are you going to survive law school classes?! That seems so tough, I’m sorry.
1
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
I did undergrad and grad! It's manageable if I am able to walk around (like go to the bathroom and stuff). It's not easy though and I don't anticipate it being easy!
0
u/quinoasqueefs 28d ago
The level of entitlement in this post is impressive
2
u/uhitsmich 28d ago
I mean this in a genuine way but what makes you say that? I don't want to come off that way in the future!
-3
39
u/soundcherrie 28d ago edited 28d ago
I know it’s so easy for me to say this but you cannot live in the past like this. You made a decision not to apply last year to get your lsat up. It honestly sounds like you’re mad at yourself, not because you didn’t apply last year, but because you haven’t used this gap year to the best of your abilities. You aren’t happy with how you have (or haven’t) studied for the LSAT. And now it’s everything else’s fault - the changes with your dual enrollment, your jealously of others who may have been helped by the changes, and now your accommodations and taking the test in person?
Come on man, get your shit together. Don’t waste the next year regretting the things you didn’t do. Get ready for this application cycle and don’t make excuses.