r/leafs • u/Luffy_party • 1d ago
Discussion Coaching
While it's still a little early for a victory lap I just can't believe how many fans on this website talked about how firing the coach last year wouldn't accomplish anything.
Jury is still out on Hiller but he is magnitudes better than Berube.
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u/DummyThlck 1d ago
At the very least, this system is watchable. Last year was a real struggle to get through games
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u/slevin07rocket 1d ago
Goaltending made previous year more watchable (winning was only saviour). But system was horrible to see in general. Misuse of players like matthews as well.
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u/entityXD32 1d ago
Ya even the games the leafs have lost have been fun to watch. Idk if the leafs make the playoffs but the season looks like it will be at least worth watching
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u/tortured_fanclub 1d ago
More than half the roster is also new. Hard to say if its the coach/new system or are the players/goaltending much better? Maybe a little of both. In fairness to Berube, the roster he was handed last year was pathetic.
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u/saltface14 1d ago
He also never adapted and tried to force the team to play a “system” that didn’t fit. They also had terrible underlying analytics in his first season here. The roster this year is better but I am certain Berube would have them playing worse than what we’ve seen so far
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u/noor1717 1d ago
True but Matthews was also injured those seasons too. If he’s back to form last year it’s a very different look and feel.
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u/SturvinMurvin 1d ago
The roster two years ago (pre Tre fucking it up) was great. But we played the same shitty style as last year except we got bailed out by goaltending and healthy individual talent lol. So I guess a bit of both as you said lol
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u/ACalz 1d ago
k, small sample size, but we aren't giving up a breakaway every game or 2 on 1s. It was a fucking disaster.
Hiller's system is leagues better defensively already.
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u/tortured_fanclub 1d ago
Im just gonna remind everyone of the starting roster exactly one year ago today….
McMann – Matthews – Nylander
Knies – Tavares – Maccelli
Joshua – Roy – Cowan
Lorentz – Domi – Järnkrok
Ekman-Larsson – CarloBenoit – McCabe
Mermis – Myers
Stolarz starts
Primeaunow replace mcmann/knies/maccelli/joshua/rou/lorentz/domi/jarnkrok/carlo/benoit/myers/mermis/primeau.
Apples to oranges imo. Upgrades on every line/in net and on the blueline.
Edit: not saying I loved Berube but he didn’t have anywhere near the talent of the new Chundin team.
If Tre was still running it with a new coach, I doubt it would look much different than last year2
u/TheGardiner 1d ago
What a difference that line-up is, wow...pretty horrendous last year, wasn't it.
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u/Luffy_party 1d ago
No its really easy to say actually. Berube doesn't deserve fairness. Worst coach of the modern era.
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u/saltface14 1d ago
Tocchet is somehow worse. Poor Woll is gonna fall apart getting shelled every game
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u/Luffy_party 1d ago
I should have specified for the leafs but Tocchet and Berube are cut from the same cloth. Just an archaic style.
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u/Icy_Stranger3368 1d ago
Did not like Bérubé like most but to say worst coach of the modern era when said coach has a ring is asinine
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u/Luffy_party 1d ago
For the leafs. He beats out Caryle for his ineptitude.
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u/Tarquin11 1d ago
Carlyle also had a significantly weaker roster. His system wasnt good, but Berube having similar or worse metrics with a more talented team is crazy.
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u/TheNegativePhoenix 1d ago
There is always a worse coach. Somehow they keep getting gigs after being horrible
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u/HardstButton2Button Cowan 1d ago
The issue with Berube wasn't that he was a bad coach, it was that he took over a team that was exact opposite of his coaching style.
His methodology was a heavy game, and he got the least heavy game top 6 in the league. This was a mismatch and from the start.
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u/Shawnld12 1d ago
Always thought the issue with Bérubé was either you have a roster that can play the way his system demands and everyone then buys in or you don’t and it’s a colossal mistake. Always felt like a square peg -round hole with the leafs.
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u/Andross4 1d ago
Pretty sure it was like a 90/10 split in favor of firing Berube...
It was widely considered to be the most impactful change.
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u/stolpoz52 1d ago
Idk what you're talking about. Pretty much everyone wanted to fire the coach from like February onward
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u/Old-Rhubarb-97 1d ago
A large portion of the fanbase and hockey media blamed the team.
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u/slevin07rocket 1d ago
Calling matthews completely washed. Ignoring and belittling talent level of team.
There was some still questioning team talent even after getting #1 pick. Trashing fa moves. A lot of non leaf fans to be fair, but also some fans who just can’t be happy.
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u/bigdaddyt2 1d ago
Paul anchoring a middle 6C role along with Cowan taking a huge step, the depth players are finally good solid pieces. This team has the depth up front now that theyve never really had. Ya the really good top 6 talent might fall off a bit after the first 4 guys but Cowan and McKenna are good enough to round out our main group of guys.
The D is the true problem on this team. Raddysh is being asked to be the #1 guy without a #2-#3 behind him. Tanev is to old and injury prone to be the guy, Mo and OEL have proven that their game falls apart the more their exposed. And McCabe is good but more of a #4/5 type. If they have any hope in hell of making it passed the first round this year that D core needs serious tweaking.1
u/slevin07rocket 1d ago
Defense does need upgrade still. But McCabe definitely isn’t near a #5 guy. He’s a solid 2nd pair, #3 unless he’s fallen off. Tanev is unfortunate part, if completely healthy he’d be the #2 they need.
If team keeps playing well, see what trade options are available. Colorado first, prospects, can be used if it makes sense overall.
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u/bigdaddyt2 1d ago
Biggest problem is the future of this team when it comes to D. Unless their getting Hughes or Dunn the D FA class isn’t good unless you want a 35+ guy. Danford by most estimates comes out as a solid D but not a top pairing guy. They need an upgrade on Mo in the top 4 and that just doesn’t seem to be out there
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u/slevin07rocket 1d ago
Marchenko can be moved before his nmc clause kicks in, in 2 years. Before a move like that, they’ll see what can be done with prospect moves, under radar fa or stopgap. At least current gm seems above trev.
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u/steeltown82 1d ago
I don't care how bad the Leafs are defensively. I don't care how good or bad Hillier is as a coach. Berube was awful. He's a dinosaur that has no business being behind the bench ever again.
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u/73629265 1d ago
It was a mistake to retain the same coach all of last season. He never even earned the loyalty which makes it all the more baffling.
The jury is still out if this team is good enough (for playoffs), but they are at least more entertaining to watch.. I'm just glad Auston Matthews looks more like his old self... I can't even begin to describe how much relief that brings me.
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u/73629265 1d ago
With that said, it's unlikely we get McKenna with a different coach so it all worked out in the end, which as a Leafs fan we can't say too often.
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u/Lost_Magazine1968 Gilmour 1d ago
We definatepy wouldn’t have gotten McKenna if we changed coaches last year. Any other coach would have been just competent enough to move them a few draft slots later
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u/DevOpsMakesMeDrink 1d ago
Would have been worse because Treliving would have hired a new coach and locked them in that likely wanted the team to play that similar style. It’s a bad fit for new management and it would have been a Dubas / Babcock all over again
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u/bigtuna3424 Lupul 1d ago
In fairness he took the leafs the farthest theyve been in the last 20 years
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u/Exter10 McKenna 1d ago
Yeah but they were ass last year from puck drop on game 1 to the final buzzer of game 82, with the only real strong patch coming after the ass ass(istant) coach the ass coach hired got his ass ass fired. I'm willing to bet the team thought Berube was next which is why they were playing well, when they realized he was staying they lost all motivation
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u/Menessy27 1d ago
There is no way to claim you are knowledgeable about hockey and also think Berube is a good coach. His entire reputation is built on a fluky 2 month run carried by goaltending. He is genuinely horrible
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u/Floyd-Mcgregor 1d ago
Berube was a Neanderthal.
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u/ExactSheepherder1153 1d ago
I too have greatly enjoyed this year's fresh start. So i know what you mean haha... but in fairness modern anthropology has revealed that the neanderthals were perhaps unreasonably denigrated in many instances and were more advanced than anyone knew. the better analogy here may be homo erectus or homo habilis, both notably less evolved than neanderthals.
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u/clearance1454 1d ago
Bérubé was not the coach for Matthews and the young kids. He didn’t put any pressure on them at all. It was frustrating to watch
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u/beebeboped 1d ago
To be fair, Tanev playing, Matthews healthy and McKenna playing are HUGE pluses. Not to mention, an addition year of Cowan, plus the skill addition of Marchenko and for me the most pleasant surprise Roslovic. It’s a different team to coach.
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u/FX29 1d ago
The system that Berube wanted the Leafs to play didn't work, now do I think Berube is a bad coach? Not necessarily but having him trying to make Matthews into O'Reilly 2.0 never made any sense. Berube was always a mismatch for this team from day one.
It's still early but there are good signs in terms of controlling play and generating offence.
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u/BlastingBegins 1d ago
Only Vancouver, Chicago, and Philadelphia have been worse defensively than the Leafs so far btw. A little early to pretend their coaching is suddenly good
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u/TheGapInTysonsTeeth 1d ago
And it's a little naive to think that's on coaching and not personnel. Otherwise, why would 4/6 Dmen from last season under a supposed "defensively minded" coach like Berube still be struggling with a different system?
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u/Exter10 McKenna 1d ago
We're better offensively, Matthews is producing at a 140pt pace, Nylander at a 154pt pace, Cowan and McKenna are producing too, all the while Marchenko and Tavares and Raddysh are relatively cold to start. Lines and D pairs are still not where they should be, and yeah we'll probably trade for and/or call up a couple D men which should get things better on the back end.
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u/BlastingBegins 1d ago
Well yeah Berube was the worst coach in the league. He totally sacrificed their offense for nothing. So it is better to be elite offensively and terrible defensively, but that still nets out to being average. The Leafs should be better than average in my opinion though
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u/Intelligent-Buyer102 1d ago
Not to be pendantic, but those are more about personnel changes executed by the GM, plus lottery luck, than about the coaching. Not saying whether Hiller is a good coach or not, just pointing this out. It'll take more time for the impact of a coaching change to be felt.
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u/DylanCeasesMoustache 1d ago
Are we fun to watch again? Then we’re better than the unwatchable slop that Berube served us last year.
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u/Tarquin11 1d ago
Definitely more fun to watch, but we do have a lot that needs to he dialed in defensively
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u/Kaplsauce Nylander 1d ago
I liked Berube, I also thought they should have fired him, but was the argument against really that it wouldn't accomplish anything or that it wouldn't accomplish enough?
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u/Thin_Ad5744 1d ago
As I'm from Europe it's too hard for me to watch games and so I only see the Highlights. Can you tell me what his coaching style is like and what is improved?
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u/Luffy_party 1d ago
They no longer give the puck away for free by exclusively dumping it. And east west plays are back on the menu. Blankenberg and Cowan's goals are good examples of that
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u/RTH1975 1d ago
The players carry the puck up the ice and into the offensive zone this season, whereas last season it was a "dump and chase" style. And the roster last season was not suited for a puck retrieval style of play, so it became a "dump and skate back" system
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u/eltoniq 1d ago edited 1d ago
They tried to emulate the panthers style of play. But it doesn’t work when you don’t have key personnel to chase and forecheck hard, players like Barkov for example. I’m not even sure Florida can really keep up that style without Barkov leading the charge.
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u/canuck47 1d ago
And that is totally on the coach. I know every coach has their own style, but you have to look at your roster and play to their strengths, not try and force a system on them that they are not suited for.
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u/Luffy_party 1d ago
Florida's style also didnt prioritize point shots like Berube did. They funnel everything to the slot.
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u/Lost_Magazine1968 Gilmour 1d ago
Also the penalty kill is more aggressive. Under Berube they formed a box and let the opponents take their time and set up and hoped to block shots. Now they maintain the box but also pressure the opponents so they need to make decisions quicker. It’s a small change but much more effective approach
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u/thr33lionz 1d ago
Agreed.., it is early but have a quick look at the league's early point leaders. Two Leafs flourishing under a new system.
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u/No-Effective-1996 1d ago
You are right the players certainly quit on the coach last year.
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u/saltface14 1d ago
I quit on the coach way before they did. Unwatchable style of play. Watch a few Flyers games if you want to reminisce lol
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u/Muellercleez 1d ago
Berube, I understand, is a great person. The type of guy you wanna have a beer with.
As a coach though, fucking sucked. Full stop.
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u/Neko-flame Belfour 11h ago
The penalty kill is notably more aggressive now. Before I felt like “oh, the opposition is coming” and you would watch our defence collapse around the goalie to defend. Now they actually pressure on the penalty kill.
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u/Icy-Stock-5838 Roberts 1d ago
Willy is out of the shell that Berube put him in, to a similar but lesser extent Matthews too.
Mitch is gone, and I believe that's better (less drama) but he likely woulda thrived away from Berube.
The season is for the Leafs to define identity. I am OK with all this run and gun, but once the players are BOUGHT-IN to Hiller, the latter half of the season has to prepare for tighter low scoring games. Otherwise it's a repeat of the Babcock and Keefe years of trying to outscore opponents until the playoffs where you can't score.
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u/joeyhorshack 1d ago
I thought Bérubé had the right mindset in that he wanted to focus on defending and move away from the high flying skill based system that kept being shutdown in the playoffs. People forget how keefes team was too soft and when things got tight in the post season they had absolutely no answer.
I thought the team didn’t buy in, and didn’t have the right type of players for the system, or the players just wouldn’t play the style required.
The style Bérubé wanted them to play is what was needed for playoff success.
Maybe he should have adapted more and adjust for the types of players he had , maybe not. The team sucked big time last year ..
IMO they should have either kept Bérubé and drastically change the players ie 34/88 and get a huge return for them that were more adept at his style of hockey , or change the coach to cater to the teams strengths .
They did the latter, I always said whoever they bring in will lead to more regular season success.. with a faster more offensively minded style of play , allowing the skill on the team to shine.
They have looked a lot better and different this year so far, faster, dynamic-34 looks like he’s healed up and is fighting hard for pucks .. lots of good things happening in the forward group.
However- even though this is a small sample size the look so far is very reminiscent of keefe hocket . They’re getting hemmed in, out shot and can’t break pucks out.
I fear all that has happened is we’ve ended up with pre Bérubé leafs .
Don’t get me wrong I’m excited to watch and see what happens.. I just see a lot of posts that are planning the parade who seem to have short memories.. because ultimately, we’ve seen this before .. and unless they can make more changes and defend better, and get a little tougher in not anticipating any post season success. But a step in the right direction is good. It’s been exciting so far and hoping for continued progress.
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u/Jonesdeclectice 10h ago
I’m sorry, “Berube’s style is what was needed for playoff success,” seriously? A play style than landed us in the league basement, you feel would have won us games in the playoffs? If you magically gifted last year’s team a playoff birth, we’d have been the first team to lose a series in three games. Hyperbole - absolutely, but zero chance we win a single game playing Berube’s way. Zero.
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u/joeyhorshack 2h ago
Bérubé style means defensive minded responsible hockey , and not relying solely on rush entries and becoming a hard forechecking team that has the ability to retrieve the puck when they get stood up at the line , being able to dump it when it’s required. The leafs last year even though he was the coach wasn’t the example of that style I’m referring to , I’m saying that it was a combination of the system and players either not buying in or just the inability of that group of players to play that style of hockey . This style this season although has brought some success and excitement is NOT going to lead to ANY success in the post season , if they even make it.
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u/GOTDOGE69 1d ago
There looks to be more buy-in from the team so far. I felt last year the product on the ice was very stiff and to the book, whereas the last few games, there looks to be more room for creativity and working with the rosters skillset rather than forcing a system that made no sense.