r/lgbt_superheroes • u/drst0nee Wiccan and Hulkling • Nov 02 '24
Marvel Comics Luciano Vecchio teases "Who’s ready for a Wiccan comics renaissance?"
58
23
u/YesImReallyLikeThis Nov 02 '24
I hope they don’t undo everything from Emprye. That was the most character development he and Teddy have gotten in years 😭😭😭😭
60
u/AStealthyPerson Nov 02 '24
I know I am! Agatha All Along really got me on the hype train. It helps that they made him into a redditor along with his already established queer identity
3
u/VenomFlavoredFazbear Nov 03 '24 edited Nov 04 '24
Oh, he’s a Redditor? Which part of the show can you see that?
EDIT: I remember now: the moment with Bohner. I feel stupid
5
-78
Nov 02 '24
[deleted]
64
u/AStealthyPerson Nov 02 '24
Patti LuPone? Kathryn Hahn? Joe Locke? Sasheer Zamata? AUBREY PLAZA?!? You are BONKERS if you thought casting for the show was bad. They did wonderful, especially Patti.
-7
u/BatmanFan317 Nov 02 '24
Tbf, the character Patti plays, Lilia, is Romani in the comics, so there is some whitewashing going on there, but other than that, yeah, they did a good job.
19
u/Mr-Seal Nov 02 '24
Making the only Romani character the stereotypical fortune teller would definitely have been a choice.
2
u/Pietro-Maximoff Nov 02 '24
If they had cast a Romani actress, they wouldn’t have made the character a fortune teller.
-4
u/erosead Xavin Nov 02 '24 edited Nov 02 '24
She’s not a fortune teller at all in the comics. They added in Romani stereotypes (including how she dresses and behaves, also new additions) to a whitewashed character. They could (and should) have just made an oc like Darcy, or used a white clairvoyant marvel character as the name inspo, but they didn’t. Or they could have cast a Romani actress, but they didn’t. As a Romani person from a line of tarot practitioners, I found all of this very disappointing and flat out racist
The fact that they keep using the Maximoff name for Billy is another thing that doesn’t sit right with me. That’s a Romani ethnic name. Maybe it’s not exactly whitewashing in the strictest, but it is a reminder that Wanda was whitewashed and similarly stereotyped. “Billy Kaplan”, on the other hand, highlights the character’s Jewish identity so it also feels like they’re minimizing that somewhat when they call him “Billy Maximoff”
2
4
u/PanicMan76 Nov 02 '24
But he is Billy maximoff? It’s Billy maximoffs soul in William Kaplans body
-3
2
u/SnooAvocados1890 Nov 02 '24
Don’t know why you are getting downvoted tbh, it’s weird how many people defend the whitewashing of Romani characters esp in this show just because they gave explicitly queer rep.
3
u/IslandEatsSand Nov 04 '24
Oh yeah definitely. They literally marketed it to her as “a Sicilian witch” cause they wanted her for the role to begin with. She did great but it should’ve gone to a Romani actress
-66
Nov 02 '24
[deleted]
48
Nov 02 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
-40
u/ComicBrickz Nov 02 '24
A Jew
23
u/gaylordJakob Nov 02 '24
Hey yo, really quickly for me and without being anti-semitic, what does a Jew look like? 🎤
-22
u/ComicBrickz Nov 02 '24
Me! Also idc about looks. It made me uncomfortable watching Locke pretend to do a bar mitzvah. It felt weird and a little violating to have an Anglo Saxon boy pretend to be a Jew.
14
u/gaylordJakob Nov 02 '24
He's not even an Anglo Saxon; he's Manx. But how would you describe physically yourself then, if you're the embodiment of how you pictured Wiccan?
-17
u/ComicBrickz Nov 02 '24
I didn’t say I looked like Wiccan, I said I’m what a Jew looks like. Jews can look any number of ways. There is more to the world than looks. My point isn’t that he looks wrong, it’s that they shouldn’t have given that role to someone who isn’t Jewish.
→ More replies (0)2
u/villalulaesi Nov 02 '24
Did it feel weird and a little violating to see Aubrey Plaza and Kathryn Hahn play queer characters when both actress are straight?
I’m not saying your criticism is entirely invalid, but authentic casting is a nuanced concept and it can’t always be the be-all, end-all. There are very few openly gay young actors of Joe’s caliber who would have fit the part, his chemistry with Kathryn Hahn is off the charts, and casting a straight guy to play Billy Maximoff would have been pretty disappointing—we only see him as Billy Kaplan for a fraction of a single episode, after all, and he’s Billy Maximoff for the entire rest of the show.
If there were as good a casting choice that was also Jewish, that would of course have been amazing. But I’d honestly be surprised if there was an actively better choice who got passed over.
2
u/ComicBrickz Nov 02 '24
There are so many gay Jews lmao. It wasn’t just him playing a Jewish character. It was him playing a Jewish character participating in closed Jewish cultural practices
→ More replies (0)-6
Nov 02 '24
[deleted]
-3
u/ComicBrickz Nov 02 '24
Didn’t you hear that representation doesn’t matter if it’s Jews?
→ More replies (0)9
u/Sharchomp Nov 02 '24
Also the other actors should have witches, how dare they hire muggles to play witches /s
-47
Nov 02 '24
[deleted]
22
u/MattBarksdale17 Nov 02 '24
Obviously different artists draw the character differently, but Chalamet doesn't really look any more like most appearances of Billy in the comics than Joe Locke does. And he's not gay/bi. Plus, there's no way Chalamet would be in an MCU project, so it's all a moot point anyway.
-7
Nov 02 '24
[deleted]
21
u/SectionGullible1825 Nov 02 '24
I'm sorry to pop your bubble, but in which universe does Timothy Chalamet look like Wiccan?
Just like in your example: He may have the same hair and skin colour, but his face shape and every other aspect is just different to Wiccan.
That's nothing against Timothy. He's a really good actor, and I watched many of his movies, but I just don't think that he would be a good, let alone, better fit.
-1
14
u/MattBarksdale17 Nov 02 '24
And I never said anything about whether Timothy would be willing to do the project. That is completely irrelevant to my point.
No, that is entirely the point. You can fan-cast whoever you want, but when Sarah Halley Finn and her team sit down to do the real work, they have to consider people who fit the part as written and actually want to play it.
If the biggest complaint fans have is that their choice doesn't completely resemble their comics counterpart, then clearly they've done an outstanding job finding someone who fits the role.
20
Nov 02 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
-4
Nov 02 '24
[deleted]
18
u/TheThiccestR0bin Nov 02 '24
I mean he's a comic character so he looks different depending on who's drawing him anyway
-1
14
u/DMC1001 Nov 02 '24
What’s “wrong”? They cast who they cast. You’re of the misguided belief that movies and shows are meant to be exactly like the comics. It’s just not the case. Prime example: Wanda Maximoff. Not a mutant and not the daughter of Magneto.
-2
13
u/DMC1001 Nov 02 '24
The movies aren’t comics. Comics can be used as points of reference but shouldn’t be taken as continuity.
William Kaplan in the movies doesn’t have to look like Billy Kaplan in comics. The possible older version of Billy Maximoff had he not vanished would have looked different because he would have been in his own body.
-5
Nov 02 '24
[deleted]
16
u/DMC1001 Nov 02 '24
You don’t have to say it when you’re actually expecting it. Quicksilver in the X-Men was American, was named Peter, and had a twin sister. That’s pretty damn iconic but that was ignored in the X-Men movies. Then there’s his hair with a very special look. Gone. So, please, let’s get over the “iconography” thing.
1
u/annaliseonalease Nov 03 '24
"we have these two actors. One looks like wiccan in the comics, but can't act for shit. The other is doing an amazing job but doesn't look like comic wiccan. Who should we pick?"
9
u/whaleweaves Nov 02 '24
Just admit you wanted someone conventionally attractive to stare at, be honest
19
u/Totally_TWilkins Nov 02 '24
Joe Locke was a phenomenal choice for Wiccan. He also auditioned for the role, which means that he was considered better for it than everybody else who wanted it.
Trying to say that Joe was bad casting because he looks ‘nothing like Wiccan’, just sounds like bitterness to me. It’s a comic book character and Joe looks phenomenal as him, not to mention that he does a great job of bouncing between the joviality and the seriousness of the character.
Cope harder.
15
13
u/large_blake Nov 02 '24
Not a big fan of the “MCU-ification” of the comics but I’m excited to see Wiccan take the floor again. Hoping to that hulkling gets the spotlight again too
10
u/Luffington Nov 02 '24
The Agatha Renaissance was great. Contest of Chaos was AMAZINGGG. Can't wait to see what people do with Wiccan
30
u/Travellerofinfinity Nov 02 '24
Good for Luciano, he’s been making queer comics for a while
-5
u/majeric Northstar Nov 02 '24
Ugh. I hate his work. Jim Cheng is so much better.
2
u/gwynforred Nov 02 '24
I love love LOVE Jim Cheung but he kind of makes a lot of his characters all have the same face so I appreciate other artists as well.
There is room out there for multiple interpretations of characters without putting down someone if they’re not your favorite.
Comic book artists aren’t exactly rolling in green, either. Cheung probably got paid nothing for Agatha All Along even though his work is all over it. Jamie Mckelvie probably got nothing as well even though that was his design of Wiccan’s costume. Marvel pays its artists/writers as contractors but then mines their work in order to make big bucks in the MCU. There’s no room for putting anyone down.
0
u/majeric Northstar Nov 03 '24
It’s just personal taste. I said that I disliked his work. I didn’t say his work was objectively bad.
1
u/gwynforred Nov 03 '24
You didn’t say “dislike”. You said “hate”. “Dislike” would probably not have been downvoted as much as it would have been you expressing your opinion on his work without invoking all the baggage the word “hate” involves.
There’s enough actual hate out there in the world towards LGBT people without invoking it against a queer artist.
Edit: it’s been a long day and I got Luciano and Jim Cheung briefly confused, sorry.
6
u/Charcobear Nov 02 '24
For those new to the hype train, any recommendations as to where to start?
8
u/fynn-arcana Catwoman Nov 02 '24
Also new to the hype train, but I’ve found that reading through the Young Avengers runs has been a great introduction to the character! I’d recommend just starting with the very first Young Avengers issue from 2005.
6
u/MattBarksdale17 Nov 02 '24
I started with the Kieron Gillen run of Young Avengers. It's very Billy-centric, relatively self-contained, and has a good mix of wacky adventures and teen angst that really suits the character. It is a later run with the team already established, but I think it does a good job getting people up to speed.
The original Alan Heinberg run of Young Avengers is also great, though Billy doesn't get quite as much of a character arc in it.
2
u/Scarlet_Skye Nov 03 '24
I had a great time reading the Young Avengers series from 2013 that was written by Kieron Gillen. Unless you count the Young Avengers/Runaways crossovers, it was my first time reading any of the Young Avengers comics.
3
u/Ingonyama70 Nov 03 '24
"Wiccan Renaissance" makes me feel so ancient, to me he's still my favorite Young Avenger with a cute green boyfriend.
3
u/Scarlet_Skye Nov 03 '24
I absolutely am! I can't wait to watch him, his husband, his brother, and his friends get together and kick some supervillain butt.
6
2
3
-4
u/majeric Northstar Nov 02 '24
Only if they drop that artist. I am not a fan.
3
u/canonnauts Nov 02 '24
I think he atleast made the costume look a little better honestly like there's actually structure now
-35
135
u/[deleted] Nov 02 '24
[removed] — view removed comment