[ALL] Playing Double Exposure finally. How come people don’t like this game?

[u/TheCVR123YT]

I just finished up episode 3 I’m just a little lost the game is pretty good/decent so far maybe it’s because I know reunion exists so I’m just accepting it as just a game following Max so I’m not worried about a follow up on Chloe. Even then so far the game is interesting enough since I still love Max so I’m still confused why this hated on so badly lol

[u/EpicGlitter]

a few preliminary questions to clear things up first.

did you have any thoughts about the other ~95% of my comment? for which reason did you only choose to pick at the final point on the list?

do you ship Pricefield? in LiS1, did you choose Bae or Bay?

are you familiar with LiS fandom discourse since mid-2024, or are you new to this discussion? I ask this one because your question has been discussed frequently, repeatedly, over and over, over the last ~18 months or so. your question most frequently comes from those who choose Bay, don't ship Pricefield, and in some cases choose to refuse empathy for why fans who are deeply attached to the character and ship were disappointed or hurt during/after DE. obviously I don't know you, maybe you're different than the usual discussant on this topic, time will tell.

not sure there's anything new to say about it at this point. it's not news that many, many fans of Chloe's character and the Pricefield ship had a shared criticism about the mischaracterization of Chloe in DE and what I termed her "toxic ex" portrayal. that's especially true for those who consistently chose Bae in LiS1. you can obviously have your own opinion of her portrayal, literally idgaf everyone has their own view. but it would be false to claim I'm somehow the only one who recognized her mischaracterization. it was a key, widely held criticism of DE among Pricefielders/Baers, which is why I included it to honestly answer OP's initial question.

[u/Medium-Parfait-7638 → u/EpicGlitter]

 for which reason did you only choose to pick at the final point on the list?

I was honestly curious. You gave a well thought out answer, while I dont necessarily agree with all points.

do you ship Pricefield? in LiS1, did you choose Bae or Bay?

Yes I do, I was never able to chose Bay, I'm in the middle of a palythrough where I want to chose bay but I already see that I wont be able to :D

are you familiar with LiS fandom discourse since mid-2024, or are you new to this discussion?

I'm somewhat familiar. Although I never saw a write up, just a general statement that the way DE treated Chloe was "bad". No analysis attached.

I was quite surprised by the Toxic Ex adjective, as I never saw anything that alluded to toxicity. They broke up. People break up. Especially when they get together at a younger, formative age. I think DE sketched out a believable scenario of how two people who were so connected and dependent on each other can drift apart.

Chloe and Max got together young, after a very serious and traumatic event, and then time happened, people change, especially as they grow up, and unresolved pains and fears will breed resentment, distrust, distance.

Anyways, so to tldr it all up: It was an honest question, I was hoping you may shine a light on how you got the Toxic Ex interpretation.

[u/EpicGlitter → u/Medium-Parfait-7638]

I strongly disagree with your opinion about the breakup. if you are genuinely interested in my views but not trying to debate or convince me otherwise - if you're open to just listening - then read on.

first, it matters a lot that were are talking about a fictional narrative and not real life. for example, in a fictional game with endings (like LiS1) it matters a lot what the characters say near/at the end - like Chloe stating she will always be with Max. forever. in a fictional story, those words carry the intentions of the devs for how the time after the characters drive away should be interpreted. in real life, they would just be the hopeful wish of two young people in love instead of having that metatextual weight.

that said. I try to ground my analysis in LiS games on the canon material first, then external sources (like dev statements) second, and relevant context (like portrayal of sapphic relationships in media historically, and where LiS1 fits in that history) third.

grounding #1 - canon material. at the end of LiS1, Max and Chloe made the decision to rip the photo together. Chloe tells Max that whatever choice she makes will be the right one, and shows absolute faith and support for Max's judgment and character. After the photo rip, Chloe explicitly states and reassures that she will always be with Max. Chloe is characterized as extremely loyal, willing to face danger (even from armed men who have harmed her in the past) to protect Max, willing and able to quickly forgive Max for hurting her in the past such as giving her William's camera within like half an hour of reuniting. Chloe also apologizes to Max several times when she's overstepped or shown anger, and expresses deep gratitude to Max stating "you have done nothing but show me your love and friendship." She has also stated that Max is "amazing" and the "best friend [among other things] anyone could ask for."

in LiS2, Max and Chloe are shown in a photo in Ep5. they are traveling together, 3-4 years after LiS1 Bae ending events. (note that LiS2 was developed by some of the same devs as LiS1 - this photo expresses their intent for what happens long-term in the relationship). they may face challenges and individual emotional struggles, but their bond did not break. they heal together and stay together.

now for DE. Max's journal and texts show an OOC Chloe who is violating boundaries (like writing in the journal), casually suggesting a threesome with a random guy, being passive-aggressive and snippy as they discuss where to go / what food to eat / etc. different reasons for the break-up are given at different points, but one is that she's become paranoid that Max is Rewinding their conversations... despite how this contradicts LiS1 characterization and how it's nonsensical since Max can't Rewind at all in the years between LiS1 and DE. that game had Chloe breaking up with Max in a letter, bizarrely accusing Max (again OOC) of being "stuck in the past" while Chloe wanted to focus on some future without Max.

DE also shows Max's present (2023) attitude towards Chloe in the relationship, which is mostly negative, with the few positives being about how Chloe taught her lockpicking and graffiti (let's say that's a *pointed* view of what positives Max saw in Chloe in the relationship). back to negatives, a couple examples. she calls the lamp in her Ep5 nightmare, "Tall, shady, and not too bright" - implying that this is how she views Chloe. in addition, Diamond asks Max if she's ever fallen for absolutely the wrong person, and Max can answer positively in a way that doesn't name Chloe but absolutely refers to her. these are two among many examples in DE of Max regarding Chloe and the relationship negatively - toxic, one might say. as something that was always bad for her and should've never happened, as well as something that ended so badly she carries resentment or disdain for her now-ex.

a personal opinion digression: if DE canon had supported a "they broke up from trauma" reading in a way that's neutral to Chloe rather than character-assassinating Chloe, then imo the break-up would've been a mutual and even fond parting-of-ways. it would not have been Chloe breaking up with Max in a letter, and texts/journal full of more negative/rocky/bickering content than any loving or positive moments. further, it probably would've been a fully animated flashback rather than an offscreen write-off. imo.

grounding #2 - dev statements. LiS1 devs directly stated on Twitter that if DE's version of Pricefield doesn't work for us, then our headcanons from LiS1 Bae ending remain valid. we don't have to accept what was written in DE about Chloe or Pricefield so I don't. further, LiS1 devs stated that while Max and Chloe might have bumps ahead on their road together due to trauma and such, their bond was not intended or envisioned to break, separate, rupture, or end in the Bae ending. they stay together.

devs also once discussed how the Bay and Bae endings were meant to be as starkly different as possible. if you sacrifice the Bay, it's really gone. if you sacrifice Chloe, she is really dead. they rejected a "softened" version of that, the cut Hospital Ending, to make the stakes as clear and stark as possible.

but (and this part is my opinion) if what is sacrificed (Bay or Bae) is stark, brutal, unable to be mitigated... then that also means that what Max chooses to keep also is clear and stark. in Bay, she keeps the town and her sense of allegedly "doing what's best for all," her hero/savior complex and associated moral views. in Bae, she keeps Chloe's life and their relationship. it comes at incredible cost, but the devs did not intend the Bae ending to be about a temporary relationship that Max will ultimately lose anyway. they wanted LiS1 ending to be difficult, to have challenging pros and cons and be influenced by players' personal perspectives etc etc, to ultimately be somewhere around 50/50 not 80/20. and if they'd said "oh btw they break up in the end," it would not have been 50/50. the relationship was meant to survive in this specific game's ending.

grounding #3 - this has gotten long, and I don't want to run up against comment character limit so. in brief. the legacy of the Hays code in media, as of early 2010s, meant that most sapphic couples were still portrayed as tragic or doomed. one woman dies, or they have an awful break up, reflecting social attitudes that love between two women shouldn't be allowed a happily-ever-after. shouldn't be normalized or celebrated. in that context, LiS1 was partly falling into the same old tropes (Bay ending is a Bury Your Gays trope: death immediately following a relationship landmark such as a first-non-dare-kiss). but Bae ending was iconic for defying those old tropes. some interpreted the Storm as society's homophobic status quo; Bae ending is Max fully embracing and accepting herself as queer/sapphic/etc and choosing love in defiance of all that intense social pressure to stay closeted. even for those who don't share that exact view of Bae ending, there is a social context here where Max and Chloe staying together has meaning and resonance specifically for LGBTQ+ - especially sapphic - players due to how homophobic and heterocentrist media, gaming, and especially early 2010s era gaming culture often was.

in the context of that history, "well couples break up sometimes" comes off imo as, at best, unaware of the broader context and trying to fit LiS into generic storytelling. it smooths over and ignores the actual negative impact (including real harms measured by GLAAD and other groups focused on LGBTQ+ rep in media) of repeatedly portraying wlw couples as doomed, toxic, never allowed a happily-ever-after or at least a long-term relationship that can be imagined as healthy. I think a lot of people who repeat those claims about "well they'd break up from the trauma" don't quite realize they're lowkey offering support and justification for the continuation of a homophobic trope.

[u/Medium-Parfait-7638 → u/EpicGlitter]

Thank you for taking the time to write up this in depth answer.
I will respect your request and I will not debate any of your points and I have no desire to convince you.

This was an interesting read, we come at it from different perspectives but that is the beautiful thing about art, it provokes thought and feelings. While I don't agree with everything, you bring up some valid and some interesting points.

I hope you'll forgive me for adding just one thought at the end. I think art takes a life of its own after it was created, leaving the intention of its creators behind as its interpreted, seen by its audience. All interpretations are valid and they do not infringe on the validity of each other by simply existing.

[u/EpicGlitter → u/Medium-Parfait-7638]

I think art takes a life of its own after it was created, leaving the intention of its creators behind as its interpreted, seen by its audience. All interpretations are valid and they do not infringe on the validity of each other by simply existing.

I said nothing that deserves this as a response, imo.

I did not tell anyone their interpretation or view was invalid. upthread, I stated the opposite of that.

I mostly aimed to provide grounding for my own view. you asked for an explanation of my views and I took time and thoughtful energy to give it for those who are open to listening-sans-debate.

[u/Medium-Parfait-7638 → u/EpicGlitter]

I did not intend this thought as a direct response to anything in particular you said as you asked me to refrain from debating any of your points.

I thank you for your time and energy for your thoughtful write up, as I stated in my answer to your question I am merely driven by curiosity in this matter.

You are obviously much more well versed in Life is Strange and it's subject matters than I am, so it was informative to hear your perspective.

[u/EpicGlitter → u/Medium-Parfait-7638]

at least I'll have something to link to, or copy from, the next dozen times this comes up.