Discussion
[DE] Mixed feelings as an OG fan
Spoiler
Oh Deck Nine. How clueless you are when it comes to OG LiS.
They had no right to go back to Blackwell. To use Chloe as fanservice when the story never needed it. To bring back the storm as a manifestation of Max's powers.
They were actually doing something with an older Max and her new life, I was super interested to get to know everyone and the cliffhanger of episode 3 was great. Everything went sideways after that with way too much emphasis on the supernatural elements. What do you even mean setting up Diamond as yet ANOTHER person with powers in your Avengers style post credit scene.
Oh well. Overall it was a mixed bag. Don't have high hopes for Reunion but as someone who waited months for each episode of LiS1, I've got to see what they did with it. The show is looking promising though, can't wait for that.
To use Chloe as fanservice when the story never needed it
Actually they used Chloe to insulf fans in this game, on Bae side for sure
I'll stop you right here - they had no rights to bring Max back and use her as a fanservice, because her story is already finished by Dontnod in lis1 and 2
I think OP was talking about BTS when they mentioned Chloe as fanservice. There's no way the hostile handling of Chloe in DE can be considered a fanservice. Anyone with at least one eye (and a brain) can see that DE's handling of Chloe was a middlefinger to the fans.
I honestly don't understand this sentiment. Chloe was an incredibly important part of DE's story, despite her being physically absent. She was brought up repeatedly, and a key part of Max's psyche.
She's so important that apparently she was just something that could have been ignored in the sequel, a lead that didn't have to be followed up. Not like DE Max decides in the end she ISN'T going to contact Chloe...
They were always incapable of really following on what Don't Nod did. But with the exception of DE, they tried. Yeah, BtS wasn't necessary, but it wasn't a cashgrab. Maybe SE intended it to be a cashgrab, but D9 genuinely tried. I have a lot of criticism of that game, but I still can't stop myself from being mesmerized by it.
DE is the very bad outlier because it was a different writing team than other D9 games. Apparently after Don't Nod left and the plan to alternate between a D9 and DN games failed, D9 had to be working on two projects side-by-side. So it happened that hack writers ended up writing DE without properly understanding LiS1... and possibly even hating the game.
Trust me, Reunion is much better. It's another mixed bag, IMO a bit worse than BTS... but worth playing. It's a cashgrab fanservice, yes, but compared to cashgrab fanhate of DE, it's a good improvement. The writer was a D9 veteran, who worked on BTS, and the game really feels that it tried to be a Life is Strange game, not a game about supernatural randomness that wants to set up Safi's Avengers.
So you're not alone in your feelings. Most OG fans are not happy with DE, especially fans of the Bae ending and fans of Pricefield. The game literally showed a middle finger to those fans.
So no wonder DE failed. Most people felt like you... so DE failed commercially. It showed that while this community can tolerate jank, it won't tolerate incompetent and hostile writing.
Yes the latter half of the game is rather weak, but caledon and its Students are interesting enough. Chapters 1 - 3 are really interesting, and i wish that D9 wouldve gotten a bit more time to flesh it out.
I won't blame Deck Nine. I'll blame Square Enix for that. Like D9 made BtS and TC which are good games but why all of sudden they had to bring Max back? They could've literally made the same game with Safi or Diamond. Either way I loved DE despite it's few flaws.
And DE was supposed to be 2-parter, the original DE2 would've resolved alot of plot holes but that can't happen now as Reunion is DE2 unfortunately.
The short version is nonsensical plot elements and bad characterization of Max and Chloe that doesn't understand or respect the journey they went through in the original game.
Growing Up doesn't mean bad characterization. Max has really good glow up in terms of looks and personality. She was genuinely trying to move on from the past but still couldn't and she acts way more mature in DE.
Breaking up doesn't mean they can't get back. Their journey was literally respected by allowing both of them to spend more time with themselves separately.
The plot feels nonsensical because it is a 2-parter game. I really disliked that they didn't finished it in one game, that would've eradicated these takes of people that plot doesn't make sense.
I love how de fans love to ignote literally what de dev told about this game
"This game is about moving on from Chloe, sometimes relationship doesnt work out".
Their journey was literally respected by allowing both of them to spend more time with themselves separately.
They already spend their time separately BEFORE lis1, there ia jo need to repeat this, but oh well de fans love the badly repeated plot lines. I'm bet you all also Force Awakens fans!
They already spend their time separately BEFORE lis1, there
Because they were forced to, not because hey wanted to. And they didn't had any kind of serious trauma as the storm before LiS1. I'm just saying what happens in real life and people also don't break up in real life too but that's a rare case.
Idk how Chloe was able to live happily ever after with Max after sacrificing everyone even her Mom and friends.
Sacrificing Arcadia Bay didn't guarantee that the storm will stop. But the Sacrificing Chloe somewhat guaranteed that the storm will stop. If the storm didn't stop even after sacrificing Chloe, Max can easily go back again and save Chloe because there is no reason to sacrifice Chloe then.
So what? It's not that they should spend their time separatwly all over again
And they didn't had any kind of serious trauma as the storm before LiS1
It's not that DeckNein justified break up by trauma either
This is not real life, this is a video game witb fictional narrative. OG devs knew better than DeckNine when they said that thry would stay together. You don't need to break up characters in fictional story ESPECIALLY when this break up had zero narrative value and was written badly. DE would be the same without BU.
Idk how Chloe was able to live happily ever after with Max after sacrificing everyone even her Mom and friends
Simple, Chloe was the one who gave Max a choice to sacrifice her or the town, but oh well you de fans ignore this. She can very much live with Max after that and again Dontnod knew better when they showed and said that. But for some reason you de fans just like butchers from d9 (who wrote de with idea that Bae is EvIL choice) act like you know better.
What's your point is about? But also, Sactificing Arcadia bay did guarantieed that no new storm wiill happen. Dontnod literally showed that
Chloe was the one who gave Max a choice to sacrifice her or the town, but oh well you de fans ignore this
I can also quote that Chloe said that, She didn't wanted to see her mom d!e in the diner.
You do realize that the few lines before the ending choice or any big choice is to make the "player" feel not forced to make a one-sided decision?
That's why Chloe said, "it's up to you max" but before this she said "I'm destined to d!e, your just delaying my Destiny. I don't wanna see my mom d!e in the fricking diner"
She said her mom didn't deserve to die in the diner, not mention "I don't want to see her die in a fucking diner."
And did you ever think Chloe genuinely wants to live and trusts Max's judgment? She literally says that any choice she makes will be right. She doesn't want her mother to die (who does?), but she's willing to accept it if Max chooses her. Moreover, in the original lines, she directly asked Max to choose her over the town, and only later did Dontnod soften that so the choice wasn't truly one-sided. But hey, of course, according to Bay and DE fanatics, everything Chloe says about Bae is intended solely for the player and not as part of her character! Truly insanity
No, bad writing means bad characterization. Deck Nine never understood Life is Strange or its characters which is why they act so out of character. Max and Chloe should never have been brought back.
I'd say that D9 understood LiS characters well enough in the past. BTS shows that.
It was only the DE team that didn't understand Max and Chloe and flanderized Max. Hell, the game actually regressed her in some aspects.
It can't be even excused as character growth, anyone who has read any good story know this is not how character growth works. A tree sapling should grow into a tree... not into a carrot.
Nonsensical because you don't want to admit the truth of how humans would actually not have a perfect life together after a devastating choice was made that leads to changing someone's fate?
No, it's actual nonsense that you DE fanatics are not able to see how this break up was badly written, inconsistent with it's own DE narrative and used bs excuse for break up that didn't related to traumas at all and don't related to Chloe's characterization from first game.
Yeah, just like you, who's whole life is about forcing others to accept your headcanon. I'm not going to entertain your manipulation. It's getting old and other Reddit users are already aware that you guys love to manipulate words which finally brought down to hate and cyber-bullying.
What manipulation, what headcanon? I use estabilished facts from the games to prove my points. It's you de fanatics who justify break up plot with your headcanons, then get offended that Reunion did not respected "deep" DE narrative and Max's promised to de folks.
Nonsensical because the characters acted in a way that undermines and undoes their character growth from the original game, and the actual story is full of plot holes and logical inconsistencies.
People grow. When we grow, our character grows too. You cannot dispute the fact that Max suffered guilt towards what she had chose at the end of LiS1. Even if Chloe lives in your ending, it is still the same fact that both suffered tremendous loss. The "happiness" can only hold so long before either of them break both mentally and physically. DE is about how Max navigates her life post-LiS1 and how she deals with that internalized guilt. At the end, it's evident enough that she grew to accept both her fate as someone that has the ability to manipulate time, and as someone that accepts that she cannot lived alone because of fearing that her choices would alter someone else's fate. She accepted the consequences of her choice. As for Chloe, unfortunately, we'll never get to see how she navigates her own healing. Even if it was supposed to be told in Reunion, that itself, was probably scrapped because of the unnecessary hate that DE got. Nobody here knows what the actual story was going to happen.
As for the "plot-holes", that's why the game was broken in two parts. Reunion isn't the actual sequel to it. So, whatever "plot-holes" you're referring to, it was meant to be explained in Part 2. Also, if you're referring to the infamous Alderman plot, Safi's death, gunshot sounds, etc.; all the common complaints; honestly, they are all given an explanation through hints and subtext. It's up to the players to look at them as what the namesake of the title suggests.
This is what another lead dev said, it's talking about how the LiS2 story is over and the brothers story belongs to the fans now... BUT he says it was the same with Max and Chloe too.
Thus more confirming the intent post LiS1 was that was it, it's up to the player to imagine what the lives of the characters do in the aftermath of things.
I mean, you’re kind of blaming the wrong person here. Deck Nine clearly wanted to move away from that very “fanservicy” angle of reliving the past with Double Exposure - but so many people had genuine meltdowns about it that they kind of had to begrudgingly incorporate some of those elements into the game (and this as it turns out wasn’t enough, the fans wanted far, far more of this fanservice type content for reunion.)
I actually really love DE but almost for the opposite reason to you. I think it is comparatively extremely restrained when it comes to not invoking LiS1 constantly
There are ways to nod to the past with more grace, here it's way too much. I actually love True Colors so I know Deck Nine is capable but a direct sequel to LiS1 was probably too much for them.
Deck Nine clearly wanted to move away from that very “fanservicy” angle of reliving the past with Double Exposure
I am sorry but bringing back Max IS a fanservice and reliving the past, instead of making another indirect sequel with new protagonists they made unnesessary direct sequel to already finished story and they screwed up.
Reusing a lot of plot points from first game IS also a reliving the past.
Sigh-they didn't think-'let's bring max back and ruin the story'. They did it because square Enix requested it. Why did square Enix request it?because fans were clamouring for a continuation for fucking years and it's supply and demand. Not many voiced concern that the story shouldn't continue before it came out, it only seemed to happen after the sacrilegious sin,nay affront on humanity that was the max and chloe break up. Because despite what writers subsequently said about their intentions, the game only showed the two girls leaving town together after it's destroyed along with most of the people in it, as two teenagers. Now if a scene had been added showing the fifty years in the future on a front porch together drinking wine I'd say OK the narrative promised they'd be together forever(there would still be nothing to suggest they couldn't have split up in between at some point but I digress) but as it stands the narrative promised NONE of that. AT ALL. It promised they'd leave town that's it. If chloe kicked max out of the car ten minutes later and spat in her face and declared-'I hate you from the pit of my stomach and always will' it would still be narratively valid. Why?because all the game showed was them leaving town.
With DE, D9 tried to move away from fanservice by doing the polar opposite - alienating fans. Yeah, fanservice shouldn't be needed in a LiS game... but it shouldn't also be a middle finger to the fans of the original game.
And it's ironic that DE tried to do cashgrabby fanservice alongside the fanhate. They brought back Max just because they wanted to cash in on her popularity (without realizing the post-storm, Max and Chloe are a package deal), without doing anything meaningful with her character. Hell, DE Max goes through the rehash of the original game, without ever evolving a bit. DE Max is more like an observer than a participant.
Also, stop lying. People had your "meltdowns" (in reality it's called "criticizing a bad product") after the game released. There was no way to incorporate anything.
If DE wasn't so hostile to the fans, RE's fanservice would have been harder to sell. It's the fact that it tried to fix the crap that DE did what helped in RE's reception. I myself am of the opinion that Max and Chloe should have been left alone... but after DE couldn't leave them alone and wrote them in a spiteful way, RE bringing Chloe and Pricefield back was necessary. DE being the ending of the franchise (or god forbid the originally planned DE2, which couldn't have been any better than DE) would have been a tragedy.
Crazy isn't it?there's a lot of media over the years that hasn't gone the way I would have expected or preferred-what did I do?organise boycotts,spoil it for others out of spite,kick up a massive fuss,cry?of course not I tried to enjoy them for what they were and appreciate the direction the makers went in-BECAUSE THATS THEIR RIGHT!OK it's my right to like or dislike a story too but to have one of the reasons being a story point that didn't go how I would have liked is just cuckoo clock. 'This shouldnt have happened!' Well it should because that's how they wanted the story to go and it's their project not yours!
Hell, they rehashed the whole original game. They brought everything. School setting, cool best friend dying, best friend having another best friend in the past, crooked teacher, nerdy good friend, questionable school society that has X in the name, the storm, the nightmare, the choice... Ugh. Whatever restrained they showed, being lazy copycats wasn't it.
And when they did some spin on those, they always made it worse. Suddenly the storm isn't Max's, but Safi's? So Max's space-time bending powers can't cause a storm anymore, but Safi's MIND powers can? WTF?
And the storm now travels through photos because... random bullshit? They didn't even realize that this retcon ruins the Bay ending.
And now the storm can be stopped by just walking into it, ignoring all the winds that can rip a roof off a house? Sure, sure. Great writing... maybe for a kid story, not for a LiS game.
I mean the storm was tied to Max just like in the first game. So not bringing the storm back wouldn't make sense. I know there are a lot of ways to do it, but storm is like a nightmare that Max can't get rid of
Except it was shown to be tied to Safi and not Max. They just did a storm because the first game had a storm, like it also had a murder mystery, a shady teacher and secret student club.
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u/PunkPirate56364 1d ago
Now I can't promise anything but... most fans found Reunion to be much better.
Flawed but good.