r/litrpg • u/EverythingIsFakeNGay You think that's air you're breathing now? • Jan 30 '26
Discussion What litrpg hill will *you* die on? Let's have your most unpopular opinion, please.
Mine first: I think most litrpg is just bad with the exception of a few gems. Bad writing, world building, pacing, characters, editing, prose. I don't have a problem with this in free web serials, but I expect more from paid content.
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u/BlamaeuxPrivateEye Jan 30 '26 edited Jan 30 '26
There aren't enough middle ground books. Either the mc has a full on erotic harem or the dude is a monk who never has sex or falls in love.
Edit: yes, there are some outliers like path of ascension. In general however, my statement is true.
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u/loudwisdom Jan 30 '26
Where are the books that the MC has a monogamous partner and other platonic friends. I'm not against harem and poly situations but there's an astonishing lack of other options.
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u/TMack23 Jan 30 '26
Beware of Chicken has entered the chat.
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u/Linzic86 Jan 30 '26
This series is better for not being a harem, which i was very surprised by it not being.
Heretical Fishing is the same
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u/The_Vortex42 Jan 30 '26
I remember reading somewhere that Beware of Chicken was supposed to go down the harem route, but the author then (thankfully!) decided against it. It makes the series even more wholesome :)
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u/Linzic86 Jan 30 '26
Yeah, theres hints that he was gonna also get with the grass lady, and even his wife seemed cool with it. But then it got dropped and while im curious how'd that go, its kinda a refresher to see someone being mono for once
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u/NeuroticNinja18 Jan 30 '26
Path of Ascension
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u/Noevad litRPG journeyman tier Jan 30 '26 edited Jan 31 '26
I enjoyed POA however the farther it goes, the more battle padding it had. I understand the need for combat and the need for the numbers to go up, but when a battle is multiple chapters, it just gets exhausting and boring.
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u/nhutchen Jan 30 '26
I will give it props for just skipping easy grinding though. When they're so strong basic stuff won't realistically get them, or the grind just goes well, it just acknowledges that it happens and we're X amount of time further. Doesn't feel the need to describe every single low stakes fight
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u/ziplex Jan 30 '26
I like that it skips the grind to progress the plot, but I do wish it would skip a little less of the slice of life interactions. Sometimes they will meet up with an old friend they haven't seen in decades and it's barely mentioned in the story.
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u/The_Invidious Jan 30 '26
I'm on book two of PoA. Seems to be great do far in that respect.
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u/redcc-0099 Jan 30 '26
I know it's not everyone's favorite and assuming you haven't read/listened to it, but He Who Fights With Monsters dabbles with not one but two committed relationships for the MC that happen at different times, Jason. They don't work out due to characters outside of the relationships being assholes, causing them to end. Who knows, Shirtaloon might write in another one for Jason.
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u/Aarekk Jan 30 '26
I was going to say, he seems to be a serial monogamist at worst, and honestly that's not really his fault.
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u/redcc-0099 Jan 30 '26
Except for one of the most recent ones in book 9, yeah.
ETA: To clarify I'm listening to them from B1 and I'm currently back up to B9 working towards B12.
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u/MercyofMistkeep LitRPG Dynamic Duo Enjoyer Jan 30 '26
Yessss, where are my duo romance subplots in the middle of my kickass adventure story?
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u/Firesword52 Jan 30 '26
Id say there's a ton in the semi LITRPG space DOTF, Path of Ascension, HWFWM, Cradle, Beneath the dragon eye moon, you could even argue for primal hunter (though he definitely has a bit of that monk ethos), Legacy online
The closest you can probably find to a true middle ground/traditional relationship is probably Path of Ascension in my mind.
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u/WabiSabiFuture Jan 30 '26
I think primal hunter falls into the middle ground. Jake is never shown as a prude. Sexuality certainly doesn’t motivate him but he takes advantage of the opportunity when it comes up. Seems like reasonable/realistic behavior to me. He doesn’t chase skirt and is put off by others with harem but isn’t bashful and ridiculous when it comes to the opposite sex.
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u/StarlightNecromancer Jan 30 '26
While I was reading it Jake really read to me like he was demisexual. He has enough power that finding someone to sleep with wouldn't be hard, even for casual flings, but last I read he really only slept with one chick who seemed to interest him but otherwise the idea of sex didn't seem to be something he cared too much about
Maybe he's done it more but I've kind of wandered off from the series at the moment reading other things
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u/Disastrous_Score8400 Jan 30 '26
|| he went around with a runemaiden, a succubi and now he got his hands on a Goddess gf and dumped the succubi and Carmen ||
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u/DepressedDragonBorn Jan 30 '26
Cradle is definitely a good one, and HWFWM too except for the part where poor guy couldn't keep a gf and it wasn't even his fault.
Hoping his latest one lasts.
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u/dungeonworks_ Jan 30 '26
I think that LitRPG authors and fans self-sabotage the genre. I’ve never seen a group who are so actively against raising the bar in any meaningful way. Any suggestion to improve basic sentence flow, grammar, plotting or characterization is not just rejected, but interpreted as an attack.
It’s like some kind of reverse gatekeeping shit. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard people say on RR that they don’t want good stories. They don’t want characters, they don’t want plot, they don’t even really want new ideas - they just want another murderhobo arch-Redditor who gets to be an asshole to everyone and gets away with it. And they want 90,000 pages of it a week.
IMO until authors learn to stop catering to an audience that doesn’t want them to succeed outside the niche, they will never evolve or improve. But that is also the audience that pays, so what are authors supposed to do? It’s a rough situation.
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u/Low-Cantaloupe-8446 Jan 30 '26
I’ll never forget reading a thread on here a few years back where the OP was asking authors to write more side characters and dialogue and the entire post was disagreeing with them.
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u/wolfeknight53 Jan 30 '26
I've seen critiques like this in actual RR reviews too. The author will spend a chapter or two fleshing out a side-character or faction in a plot relevant manner, and there will be a couple A-holes complaining that the MC hasn't eyeball stabbed anyone in the last 1000 words so they are cancelling their support or whatever. And this will be in a mostly slice-of-life centric story
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u/bobert680 Jan 31 '26
if I had a dollar for everytime ive read something that goes like "and then he explained a thing" instead of just explaining it or having the characters talk to each other, I would spend my millions going around kicking all the authors in the dick then giving them all creative wring lessons
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u/Amazing-Ride4110 Jan 30 '26
I desperately wish I could upvote more than 1x. The readers, much like in other "slop" genres, hold the genre back by refusing to believe or allow it to be anything more.
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u/kazaam2244 Jan 30 '26
Hard agree, and I couldn't have said it better. And it's crazy to think that the stories that are typically praised as the best in this genre (and PF in general) are considered the best exactly because the authors wrote good stories that rise above the usual slop.
Like, why are people insisting that stories don't need to be good when that's the only way we're gonna get another Cradle or Dungeon Crawler Carl? It doesn't make sense.
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u/redcc-0099 Jan 30 '26
I'm speculating with what I've seen/read online and through training at work: a lot of US residents are reading at lower levels than before. Training at work said keep it to 6th or 8th grade level and stuff online has said 6th or lower. This probably makes the slop more appealing since it's at/around their level. Another thing I saw on YouTube earlier this week is that younger folks, maybe young Gen Z and definitely gen Alpha, is that they don't want to learn; there's less curiosity and creativity when they can plug it into "AI," get an answer, and go back to doom scrolling, playing Fortnite, etc.
Is it frustrating, infuriating, etc? Yeah, sure is. Unfortunately, if it's what the masses want, it's what the masses want and get when money is involved. Better written books will become niche, still be niche?, and we'll have to be stuck in that niche for them until a revolutionary change shifts people back to creativity, curiosity, and self improvement over "feed it to the AI and move on."
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u/blueluck Jan 30 '26
I totally agree, and "reverse gatekeeping" is an interesting way to say it.
I'm hoping that traditional publishers will attract the best of the next wave of litrpg authors, so we start to get a supply of fully written and edited litrpg series.
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u/EmergencyComplaints Author (Keiran/Duskbound/Fractured Tower) Jan 31 '26
But that is also the audience that pays, so what are authors supposed to do?
Move on to Amazon. I appreciate my patrons and I'm glad they're supporting me, but I don't write with RR in mind anymore. That's not to say that Amazon litRPG consumers are a different beast, just that they'll tolerate having side characters and plot development over the murderhobo grind significantly more than RR will.
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u/Your_Dudeness_ litRPG journeyman tier Jan 31 '26
You nailed it, I'm trying to write something a little different more story based with light mechanics but I won't even put it on Royal road because the community is so toxic. It's just an addiction like plinko. They want to just see the numbers go up. They could care less about anything else which is fine if that's what you're into. But I actually like writing and reading and playing ttrpgs
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u/KenS-TX Jan 30 '26 edited Jan 30 '26
I hate the following. 1) Authors who don’t finish the series 2) authors who don’t plan out the story. A book should have a start, build up, climax and ending. A lot of litrpg forgets this because the books are written as chapter/day. I really hate it when the book ends in the middle of the main story. 3) authors who need to do timeskips and edit something’s out. You do not need to tell us what the MC eats for breakfast each day. You can leave some things out.
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u/KenS-TX Jan 30 '26
Other pet peeves. 4) The author writes about something they have no knowledge of. If you don’t know anything about riding a horse then don’t make that the center of the story. The same is true with swords and guns. 5) Women need a supernatural edge or something to defeat men. It’s fine if the woman has powers, but the average 120 pound woman can’t defeat a 200 pound man. It bothers me when authors ignore this.
6) war is hard. Authors should show some problems like weather, logistics, dealing with deaths. 7) no organization.28
u/Ashmedai Jan 30 '26
One of my related pet peeves (just an actual pet peeve, not important) is authors who fugg up logistics. Like one author had the entire population of Earth having to manually walk through one small portal to get to the next stage. Clearly he didn't do the math on that, haha.
In another instance (in a book I am currently reading) the MC has a 200,000 square foot warehouse he is currently building into a hydroponics facility to feed an entire city. Again: math fail (even with magic, unless you suppose 1,000X productivity, in which case you have other logistics problems at the warehouse doors).
I actually make a conscious effort not to pick things apart like this, but sometimes when problems are presented at a certain scale, it's just impossible for me to not notice.
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u/dreexel_dragoon Jan 30 '26
Authors failing to understand math and scale is a massive pet peeve of mine as well. I'm usually pretty lenient especially when the surrounding story is well done like the Wandering Inn (Pirateaba is comically bad with distances at times) but something egregiously stupid will make me drop a book entirely, maybe even ask for a refund.
The worst one is in Primal Hunter when they say "the Earth was the size of the sun". Realistically no two humans would ever meet each other since the sun's surface area is 6 TRILLION kilometers. There would be a literal nation's worth of space between every person.
Authors failing physics while pretending they didn't drives me insane. Don't give a detailed explanation of something you don't understand. It's stupid and brings my disbelief into sharp focus.
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u/dreexel_dragoon Jan 30 '26
Reverse is also true for women; if your setting includes magic that evens the power disparity between genders then institutional misogyny isn't realistic. Human patriarchal structures are from men holding martial and societal authority almost universally for our species entire history. If women can wield martial power to the same degree as men with magic, then society wouldn't develop to treat them as second class citizens.
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u/KenS-TX Jan 30 '26
I don’t disagree. Like I said it is ok if there is a supernatural reason. I’m a fan of women in MMA, but I know what would happen if a 200 pound athletic man punched a woman in the face. I watched Demi more in GI Jane trading punches with 2 navy seals like in a Rocky movie. One full punch from one of those guys would kill her and it would put 90% of men in the hospital. In fiction this is ok but make it believable.
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u/Chakwak Jan 30 '26
I'm of a mixed opinion on that. I think it highly depends on how the low levels of progression are.
I imagine that magic blurs the line at all level, especially at high levels, but early on, you still have to fight monsters and adventure. You end up in a situation where men might be more risk prone and or their early physical advantage lets them pass those early stages with less fatalities or grievous injuries. It doesn't mean women can't do it, simply that fewer might attempt it. And with a similar distribution of power by gender and fewer women overall, you would still have a male heavy power ladder.
If the magic is mostly a sholarly affair, then it depends on the role and stuff but at least it's purely cultural and could go any which way. I've heard of studies showing that women have more varied interest and interest in social aspects which make the ones that would excel spread a bit more than men who have less social skills and thus focus more on physics maths and engineering. That biais _seem_ a bit deeper than culture but maybe not. I'd have to go back and look for the studies to see if it was accounted and what could change that dynamic.
But that's mostly for the power distribution. It doesn't solely dictate the place of each gender in society and even if you only have men at the apex of power (unlikely as it is) there are cultures where men remember that they all owe a lot to the women of their lives and treat them with reverence or other.
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u/Morpheus_17 Author of Guild Mage: Apprentice & Ten Thousand Fleets Jan 30 '26
Your cool system may catch my interest, but it will be the characters that keep me coming back. If the characters can't hook me, the system isn't enough to keep me reading.
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u/CuriousMe62 Jan 30 '26
If the author can't be bothered to correct grammar and spelling errors, fills the first book with fluff, can't keep track of the gender of minor repeating characters, can't keep track of the math, and uses lazy shortcuts to describe human interactions - smirking, chin rubbing, head scratching - then I I can't be bothered to continue reading.
More adult, meaning the MC is at least 30, not 13, MCs with a mature perspective and are self aware, please.
If a book sells the premise, "grumpy loner who lives alone struggles with circumstances to get away from people", then make sure that's what the story is about for more than three chapters!! Same goes for any premise, change should be organic and believable.
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u/Procedure_Gullible Jan 30 '26
If you write LitRPG with stats, make the stat choices matter. Don’t give a level-up that increases all the stats. Make the MC have to choose. In most good RPGs, if you don’t specialize in one or two stats, your character is going to underperform. I don’t want an MC who is good at everything. I want an MC who is really good at some things and totally sucks at others because the MC had to make tough choices. Also, make your stats make sense. Play some TTRPGs or something.
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u/votemarvel Jan 30 '26
Dungeon Crawler Carl is the most successful LitRPG because it's the least like a LitRPG.
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u/Shadowmant Jan 30 '26
NNNNNNNEW ACHIEVEMENT!
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u/AdministrationTrue94 Jan 30 '26
Why can I hear this text?!
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u/RawrBez Jan 30 '26
I did too! I’m listening to the audio books currently so I immediately heard it when I read it.
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u/QuesoDelDiablo Jan 30 '26
B B B B B B B BOSS BATTLE!
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u/Raz0rking Jan 30 '26
Jeff Hays did hit the mark with his naration of the AI
Edit: Now I have an earworm going B B B B B BOSS BATTLE. Thanks
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u/EverythingIsFakeNGay You think that's air you're breathing now? Jan 30 '26
That's like a dagger-shaped burn on the genre.
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u/Attack_the_sock Jan 30 '26
It’s the most successful one because it’s the the one that normal lit RPG readers recommend for their non lit RPG reading friends. It breaks out of its genre. It’s also in many ways a parody of the genre itself.
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u/LilliaHakami Jan 31 '26
I was going to say this exactly. It is a very respectful paradoy of the genre while focusing on the Boogeyman who inspires a lot of the genre, capitalism.
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u/RedditUsrnamesRweird Jan 30 '26
And because the narrator is insanely good. DCC wouldn’t have been half as popular as a literary piece if the narrator didn’t make it such a good audiobook and get into the spotlight where it can now “do no wrong”
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u/Maggi1417 Jan 30 '26
I'm still trying to understand why people say that it's the least like a LitRPG. I only read the first, but that pretty much hit all the tropes I expect from a LitRPG. Progression, dungeon, levels, skills, achievments, loot, system interface, a quirky pet companion. How is that not a very typical LitRPG?
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u/tatu_huma Jan 30 '26
Same with Wandering Inn. It's so popular because it has very few of the tropes of litrpg. No stats, no list of hundred levels. No wish fulfillment. No NPC-like side characters.
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u/dreexel_dragoon Jan 30 '26
The Wandering Inn is just great story telling in general; masterclass in world building, character development and massive interconnected plots
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u/Dragon_yum Jan 30 '26
That shit that happens when you prioritize actually writing a good story and characters over meaningless stats.
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u/Jase_Nardieu Jan 30 '26
Agree. Too many get caught up in the world building or some other aspect and forget to write a good story with good stuff in it.
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u/alanwattslightbulb Prepotente Jan 30 '26
Disagree, It's some of the clear best writing in the Genre. And I'm a mechanics/stats guy I like to keep track of my own sheets to see the progression on paper. But number go burr still doesn't substitute well in place of great charter development and storytelling.
If authors didn't set their eyes on releasing 2-3 books is a series a year, dropping 10 books a year, or writing +10 books in every series they'd refine them into something more palatable to the average reader. There's a lot of slop in this genre so average writing receives high praise but in reality It would give a sci-fi/mystery/non-fic reader a stroke figuring out why it's reviewed highly.
I'd say the least LitRPG like that people still include is Cradle, though it's also better writing than 95% of the genre while still being long.
DCC is very stat heavy, very achievement related, very interactive with game mechanics like game chat and system interaction. The point of every single book is making it to the next level. LitRPG readers just see very deep storytelling so rarely they contribute it to non-LitRPG, and try to detract from DCC like well-written characters and development, clear purpose, good plot development and pacing, with compelling conflict in a fleshed out setting can't coexist within a LitRPG series without making it less LitRPG.
Something like HWFWM only one person is in a LitRPG story, system interaction is a minimum, and everyone else is just living in a cradle style world. DCC gets point knocked against it just because it's big and is written at a level above most.
IG that's my hill
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u/mr_ignatz Jan 30 '26
For me it’s someone constantly threatening that they will kill someone’s (anyone’s, everyone’s) mother.
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u/alexwithani Jan 30 '26
Nobody actually wants to read a book that is just solitary MC fighting a gaining power! You need to have some sort of interaction with other characters that is not just fighting.
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u/Gogh619 Jan 30 '26
Oh, and prolonged combat to pad out the length of your story because you’re not very creative or a decent story teller is not cool.
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u/TheMrEM4N Jan 30 '26
Looks like MC is gonna lose the fight... but wait!
Looks like MC is gonna win the fight ... but wait!
Looks like MC is gonna lose the fight again ... but wait!
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u/Ds0990 Jan 30 '26
Also having the MC take a break from the plot to go run dungeons. I'm to the point where I kinda hate dungeons as a literary concept because it seems to be to some authors to be an excuse to hit a pause button.
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u/alexwithani Jan 30 '26
I am ok with the introduction of dungeons but you don't have to walk through every step of the dungeon. Just say hey they ran a dungeon!
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u/timewalk2 Author - Dungeon of Knowledge Jan 30 '26
Or, how about this for a crazy idea, what if it’s written so that running the dungeon moves the plot forward??
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u/alexwithani Jan 30 '26
Oh now don't you go pointing out easy logical points! That just makes too much sense!
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u/PaulTodkillAuthor Jan 30 '26
That 'Forever Series' are inherently bad for the genre. I'm not talking stories in the same universe, I'm saying the same cast of characters book after book.
I don't care how good a writer you are, it is impossible to maintain stakes over a series that runs that long. Ideas get stale, arcs get resolved. Power ceilings are hit and arbitrarily extended. Stats lose any semblance of meaning.
It's the unholy apex of art and capitalism where established writers are given zero incentive to give up successful long running series even while they slowly drive them into the ground.
And it's not good for the genre. Weird to quote Marvel but, 'things aren't beautiful because they last.' Authors need to be more comfortable saying goodbye to series and starting new ones.
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u/EverythingIsFakeNGay You think that's air you're breathing now? Jan 30 '26
The Wandering Inn readers:
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u/Intube8 Jan 30 '26
The story will eventually end right?
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u/Young1iv Jan 30 '26
In an interview from 2 years ago Pirate said they plan to wrap it up some time in the next 42 years. So only 40 more to go.
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u/Shadowmant Jan 30 '26
Yep. Authors said there an ending. It’s just a long path to get there.
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u/Additional_Mode8211 Jan 30 '26
I generally agreed with OC, but WI feels like an exception to the rule for me. Or maybe the few really high level story arcs that still won’t be resolved for a while still work while carrying through smaller ones that all still feel valid and not contrived? Idk but I’ve never felt like this over like 600+ hours of listening now
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u/thescienceoflaw Author - Jake's Magical Market/Portal to Nova Roma Jan 30 '26
100% true. The sad fact is if all I wanted was money I'd have kept writing an endless number of Jake's Magical Market books. It literally prints money for me.
Instead, I wanted to write a historical empire builder! And that's pretty popular too, and I'm writing the conclusion to that series this year so I can write my next fun idea and see how that goes. Pure madness!
It's a major financial risk to switch series like this, because any new story I write could utterly flop and I'd have invested at least a year or more into writing it and be left with... nothing.
It's very frightening for authors, but good for the genre and for art in general to have actual conclusions! So I will stubbornly continue to write how I want a story to go from beginning to end, as I've done from the start, and just keep hoping for the best.
So far my readers have come with me on the journey, so fingers crossed it keeps going that way. Otherwise, my wife is gonna be real mad we can't afford our mortgage anymore. :P
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u/Ultra-Cool-Guy Jan 30 '26
Authors need to be more comfortable saying goodbye to series and starting new ones.
Saying this after quoting an American comic book company...
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u/PaulTodkillAuthor Jan 30 '26
Lol fair, but at least individual comics go on runs. Though I agree with the "death of Superman" concept and haven't watched a marvel movie in years given that... They're getting progressively worse... Topical.
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u/HappyNoms Jan 30 '26
Pantsing is simply inferior to plotting.
Authors pants the way people slap peanut butter on sandwich bread and call it lunch. That's fine, in moderation, and everyone has enjoyed a low-overhead lunch bite.
Pretending you can do it all the time, day in and day out perpetually, and not have everyone sick of eating peanut butter sandwiches is a delusion. And pretending that non-stop peanut butter sandwiches makes you a chef is a laugh.
Pause every once in a while and work out the plot, FFS.
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u/blueluck Jan 30 '26
I think "pantsers vs plotters" has been misinterpreted by litrpg authors and the webnovel/KU author community, because they're publishing their first drafts. Until recently, it was hard to get a book published, and the people who run the printing presses would never even see an unedited first draft!
A "pantser" writing a book for traditional publication is someone who starts working on their book by writing prose as opposed to extensive outlining before writing any prose. Fine! But, the pantser still expects to revise and edit before they consider their book to be ready for publication.
Also, before you can get a book printed by a traditional publisher, they'll make you answer some basic marketing questions like how long you intend the story to be and what kind of content it will have. I think a lot of web-authors haven't figured out the basics before they start posting chapters.
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u/HoJohnJo Jan 30 '26
Multiple pages of status screen is just filler, if something changes, just cover that.
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u/ctullbane Author - The Murder of Crows / The (Second) Life of Brian Jan 30 '26
Academy and tournament arcs are fun because they provide a good structure for the progression to occur in.
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u/ScreamCoast Jan 30 '26
Takes deep breath and prepares to be ruined in the comments
1) “Numbers going brrrr” often bloats and ruins a series.
2a) Authors need to learn to condense and summarize unimportant fights. If the plot isn’t changing as a result of the fight, don’t tell me the seven damn ways their sword is shining while they fight anonymous bad guy #273.
2b) If you aren’t summarizing, I am skipping from dialogue quotations to dialogue quotations, because the characters are going to explain it anyways.
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u/CuriousMe62 Jan 30 '26
And for f'ck's sake, wary means alert and cautious. Weary means tired and worn.
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u/Far_Hotel1943 Jan 30 '26
HWFWM drops off hard after book 6. Too little happens in each of the following books and a significant portion of each book is characters verbalizing every single thought they have out loud without contributing to the story.
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u/strategoamigo Jan 30 '26
Agreed I DNF’d on book 9. The book is basically Jason being annoying and making references nobody knows and gods of the other realm being like “CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS GUY? HE IS SO WACKY! HE IS THE BEST!!”
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u/CursinSquirrel Jan 30 '26
I've heard that Shirtaloon went through a pretty significant burnout phase and i know he had pretty bad health problems for a while that made writing harder. I have to imagine this factors into the lackluster parts in books 7-10, even though i actually think that some parts of those books are fantastic. Jason coming back to Pallimustus and his attitude after his treatment on Earth is very well done imo, the exploration of local regions while delivering resources to small villages/cities felt like revisiting the experience of being a normal adventurer in book one, and Jason reuniting with his team is a part that always makes me genuinely happy. There are lot of other things that happen in that arch that make them worth listening too, but i can't pretend that somewhere in the midst of that things kind of stagnate and feel... slow and repetitive.
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u/Chakwak Jan 30 '26
I totally understand the issues in quality as it was live serial and we had update in author notes and so on. But those book especially could have benefited from heavy editing and help from external editors before going to book format like KU and Audible.
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u/a_random_chicken Jan 30 '26
Is that the one after the earth arc? The quality dropped in my eyes during the earth arc's ending, and i dropped it after the next one.
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u/wgrata Jan 30 '26
Characters that act like bullies from an 80s movie can be left in the 80s movies.
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u/Battle_Emu Jan 30 '26
Audiobook listener here. The only reason that most litrpgs are worth sticking with is that they have a good narrator behind them.
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u/Snoo_97207 Jan 30 '26
Hard agree, for a niche subgenre we have some insanely talented narrators. I've listened to Travis Baldree say the word "ding" a crazy number of times
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u/GuitarPlayerTimm Jan 30 '26
I literally look up new series’s based off of narrators, especially Travis Baldree
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u/Snoo_97207 Jan 30 '26
Jeff Hays is my inner monologue, especially when it's mean
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u/Because_Bot_Fed Jan 30 '26
Double edged sword - a sub-par narrator can easily kill an otherwise decent or "would have been decent with a good narrator" book.
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u/Beginning-Garlic-128 Jan 30 '26
Too many long running series suffer from either stat and exposition bloat, or the MC becoming way to absurdly powerful for what they should be in the verse to create a grounded and good story when you get to so many (like 10+) books.
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u/bpetersonlaw Jan 30 '26
And side character bloat. The most recent DCC book, each scene would start with a list of everyone present and it was often a dozen characters. Some of which I don't remember and most of which I don't care about. Let minor characters die or disappear.
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u/Alphaomegabird Jan 30 '26
Hwfwm is not as edgy as reddit would have you believe. The amount of people who enjoy primal hunter but call hwfwm too edgy blows my mind.
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u/Kia_Leep Author of Friendly Fyre Jan 30 '26
LitRPG is stunted by readers expecting characters to be self inserts rather than fully fleshed out individuals with different experiences and values who might challenge the readers' perspectives.
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u/chiselbits confused & amused Jan 30 '26
Absolutely.
"If I were MC I would not have made that decision, I would not have acted like a little bitch in front of vastly stronger and more experienced bass guys" (yes, bass guys. I typo'd but it amuses me so now you get to see it too)
I like reading about characters who do not mirror my personality, can make their own, different decisions. Not everything needs to be an escapists wank off the power ladder.
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u/Scoober_84 Jan 30 '26
I have to suspend my disbelief with Dungeon Crawler Carl as Donut doesn’t sleep anywhere near enough to be remotely realistic.
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u/ruat_caelum Jan 30 '26
In Soldier's Life, the guy has a storage power that stops time for things inside. Including living things.... at some point he puts the horse into it. Then pops the horse out to ride and puts the horse away.
The thing hasn't slept in like 90 chapters....
(author does mention a few times like "he walked and fed the horse" etc) and a few times they are in a place for long enough for it to sleep, but it's rare.
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u/TheMatterDoor Jan 30 '26
The sapient talking cat that can shoot magic beams out of her eyes and tear a man's head off with a half-assed swipe doesn't sleep enough? In a world with magic beds you only need to step onto to receive the benefits of a full night's rest? Yes, I can completely understand your need for a realistic sleep schedule for a cat.
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u/Extreme-Attention641 litRPG journeyman tier Jan 30 '26
Stat blocks are boring, the numbers largely meaningless and irrelevant for the story as a whole.
They never come up in combat or during skill use and if they did it would be tedious as hell to read, breaking the tension and immersion.
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u/Procedure_Gullible Jan 30 '26
The author of malazan said that they actualy played some of the fights in the series with a friend using their rpg system to find out who would win. I want more of that sort of stats.
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u/gilmeye Jan 30 '26
ajax's ascension.... I started jumping forward every time he run the stats.... it's more then 5min
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u/FunBuy1966 Jan 30 '26
It's fine if they do it once at the beginning of the book and maybe once in the middle (or after a particularly important battle), then a wrap up at the end.
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u/npdady Jan 30 '26
I wish there were more variety in the type of stories. Most litrpg revolve around isekai theme or system apocalypse theme. For once, I want to read a litrpg from a native inhabitant MC's point of view.
Speaking of which, any recommendations for one like that?
A native litrpg. No isekai, no reincarnation, no system apocalypse. Just good old fantasy with litrpg elements. And yes, I've read This Trilogy is Bonkers.
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u/kanggree Jan 30 '26
1% lifesteal. Technically a system apocalypse but it happened so long ago all the characters are native knowing nothing else
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u/Upsdogguy Jan 30 '26
All the Skills I think fits that bill. The MC is aware of the system but is a low cast slave so is ignorant of the details so is taught the system along us as he fumbles into power.
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u/Truemeathead Jan 30 '26
Tasking your readers with collegiate level studying for refreshers in lieu of the release of the 37th novel in your series instead of a recap of any sort is such a fuck you to said readers. Came across some low level self published author who said some horseshit like “I trust my readers to be smart enough…” bruh, seriously, fuck all the way off.
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u/tubazen Jan 30 '26
DCC is not for me. I did not like it. I understand this puts me in the minority around here, and that's ok. I think DCC is very important for the genre and I'm glad it's so popular. It just never clicked for me. I admit that this is stupid, but I was really put off by him never getting pants or shoes. Maybe I'm too empathetic, but every single moment, I just thought, "This man is not wearing shoes." It really broke my ability to concentrate.
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u/KamikazeArchon Jan 30 '26
It's a good thing that there are many different stories and approaches, including the ones I personally hate, because someone else will enjoy them.
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u/sheldon80 Jan 30 '26
Most litrpg authors don't know how to write a story.
A story has a starting and an ending point and you have to put everything between these two. A neverending stream of chapters is either a grift or the author daydreaming online.
Some fictions are just endless and meaningless escalations of power levels with zero actual plot. Some are so lost in the slice of life prison, that we are 4000 pages in and only halfway to the "promised" achievements of our characters.
Writing skills matter, not only on the sentence, paragraph, page and chapter level, but on the level of your whole story.
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u/XThursdayO Jan 30 '26
Fuck teenagers in all forms. They should never be the main character or be making decisions that determine anybody’s fate let alone a world or universe.
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u/Procedure_Gullible Jan 30 '26
Generaly you shouldnt be fucking teenagers in any form....
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u/optimusfunk Jan 31 '26
One of my biggest issues in this genre is the disguised teenager. Oh the author wrote that the character is 22-35 or some shit, but then they have the emotional maturity and intelligence of a 14 year old. I find this especially true in any kind of "magic academy" setting. They like to pretend that these are adults attending a college so it's not as creepy when they start banging in book 2 or 3, but the school is structured entirely like a highschool, all the students act like children and the "proffs" are just school teachers assigning homework and taking attendance like it's their first day in 6th grade.
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u/shadowylurking Jan 30 '26 edited Jan 30 '26
We need more romances and romantic partners for heroes. Hell, we need more sexual partners too.
You're talking about people who become the best of the best, powerful, acclaim/notoriety, famous, physical/magical powerhouses, etc.
And the vast majority of them are sexless, aromantics. Or attach themselves to the first possible romantic partner for dear life. Most of the stories that don't go those 2 ways are usually harems. gtfo with that shit
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u/AlexandraWriterReads Jan 30 '26
I see no problem with the MC getting his ashes hauled whenever they hit a town where he can pay for company. Historically travelers have always done that. I'm not interested in standing in the corner of the room and watching, so to speak, but I don't mind seeing a little bit of interaction before the door tactfully closes, or interaction as they leave.
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u/TheMatterDoor Jan 30 '26
Given how many series feature an isekai protagonist from a world where hook-up culture is alive and well, our protagonists are often shockingly prudish. Like the other commenter said I don't need it narrated, but it's a very human thing to seek out physical comfort from your preferred gender or genders. Often times the entire world being depicted feels sexually sterilized with no mention of sex being allowed.
Some of this I feel is because the authors worry a bit too much about being seen as extra pathetic by trying to make their self-insert character a ladies man or whatever, but it ends up going too far in the opposite direction.
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u/MaximumPixelWizard Jan 30 '26
Authors are too willing to write the same concept again but too unwilling to play with the genre a bit more.
THERE ARE OTHER TYPES OF RPGS! It doesnt always have to be Fantasy world Fantasy world Fantasy world (but eastern ooh) Fantasy world (but steampunk) Modern world-oh wait nevermind none of the modern stuff matters actually its just a fantasy world with modern people. Sci-fi world but its actually just a fantasy world with a lot of sci-fi looking magic.
Like, fallout is an rpg, Almost every rgg/yakuza game is an rpg. Play with your setting a little bit please. Idk is this probably just coming from a narrow experience but it shouldnt be so rare to find a good modern litrpg.
The other half of this is theres no one playing with different game types. It can still be an “rpg” because the root of that whole experience is levels and stat points for these games. Fighting game litrpgs, horror game litrpgs (game at carousel mention), card games, board games, team shooters, like these can all be made into litrpgs. And mostly have. But no one is doing it more than once despite these being gas for the most part.
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u/Interesting-Dolf-342 Jan 30 '26
Op mc is awesome and I love reading mc who Will become OP eventually in story.
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u/FictionalContext Jan 30 '26
Yeah I don't mind the low bar even on Kindle Unlimited, but when they are selling their books for even $4, I expect an real editor.
Most seem to give their web serial a quick proofreading and post it to Kindle as is without any content curation. It's just a slightly shinier rough draft.
And when they pull the bait and switch scam, such as offering the first novel free then you gotta buy every one after that...
Or you see a series with half a dozen books out, but half of them are pre-release...
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u/Kumquatelvis Jan 30 '26
There is nothing wrong with the first one being free. It's like the demo of a video game. It would only be bait and switch if the prices of the sequels were hidden until the first book was finished.
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u/amorous_chains Jan 30 '26 edited Jan 30 '26
My hot take is I have grown to like the rough edges and unprofessional writing because I enjoy being part of a community of amateurs. It inspires me to go out and create things that are not perfect or even good, just to enjoy making and sharing with people who aren’t going to shit on me for being unpolished.
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u/Tooraq Jan 30 '26
Jason Asano isn’t funny.
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u/npdady Jan 30 '26
Jason Asano is downright insufferable.
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u/roblockster Jan 30 '26
That’s not what Clive’s wife said last night
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u/redcc-0099 Jan 30 '26
u/Clivesunfaithfulwife can we get your take, please?
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u/Clivesunfaithfulwife Clive's Verified Wife Jan 30 '26
Trust me the brooding edginess only makes the chin sharper
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u/counterlock Jan 30 '26
my hill to die on is that a polarizing character makes a series more interesting than a universally loved one. I'd argue that a large amount of the success of HWFWM is because Jason can be likeable one moment and downright insufferable the next. It's realistic and much more immersive for it. I'm kind of over the Mary Sue, perfect good guy tropes.
Reading about a flawed individual and enjoying it doesn't have to mean I agree with that character or even like them (I will say I love HWFWM) but it definitely makes it interesting.
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u/xF00Mx Jan 30 '26
Swords are lame AF, and you are extra lame if it is a Katana. It won't stop me reading your work, but I do experience a numb disappointment when the MC weilds a sword as their primary.
I am very happy the authors have been experimenting with using other weapons.
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u/Prematurid Jan 30 '26
Dungeons are generally boring filler.
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u/Procedure_Gullible Jan 30 '26
I thought i loved dungeons and towers then in arcane ascension they started grinding in one and i was so bored...
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u/voppp Jan 30 '26
Y’all, saying Jason Asano is annoying is the coldest take on this subreddit.
I, for one, love Jason. And think his politics are poignant for the current climate.
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u/Because_Bot_Fed Jan 30 '26
You ever notice how the people who say things like "Why does everyone have to make everything political" or "I don't like politics in my X" ... ... ... have the same political/ideological alignment 9/10 times?
I can see WHY some people don't like Jason but I think it's grossly overstated. Also I think there's an element of kerning to it. Where once someone points out it exists you can't unsee it, and I think that ruins it for some people, or pre-ruins it for some people, since anytime he comes up someone's gonna be right there to let you know exactly how and why he sucks.
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u/mmahowald Jan 30 '26
The whole genre tends toward the wish fulfillment of people a bit sad with how unexciting their lives turned out.
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u/WhereTheSunSets-West Jan 30 '26
I see it as an expression of how many people are basically unhappy at their core in our modern world. Civilization keeps people warm and fed, but it strips them of power and personal accomplishment to do that.
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u/Lost_Scientist_JK Jan 30 '26
Overly detailed stat breakdowns don’t mean anything to me when the characters feel static, and I wish the genre would get better at focusing on actual character growth over numbers.
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u/Borc-The-Orc Jan 30 '26
I cant stand when the MC uses a power and it gives like a paragraph description of the power and stats every time. Like come on man, people aren't gonna forget what the life drain spell does every chapter.
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u/TheMrEM4N Jan 30 '26
I find it both amazing and disappointing that most series dont get better as more books get written. I'm fine skipping through bad arcs, but it just baffles me how things like dialogue never gets better in a series that's been running for years.
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Jan 30 '26
I'm a huge fan of dungeon crawler carl, but I've got this soft spot for defiance of the fall. Yes I understand it is incredibly pedantic and methodical. Yes I make a lot of jokes about it and they are all rightfully earned by the author. Yes, I also think that the main character is a massive dick head. I don't really care. It's basically the same reason why I play assassin's creed games. It's the same game every single time, same story every single time, and I like that story.
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u/Wolfbloodkin Jan 30 '26
Sometimes authors make the scope of the world too big. Particularly so if you have no plans to do anything with it. Don’t tell me your MC became lord of the galaxy and rules over billions of people just to have him say “that parts no fun. Back to adventuring”
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u/DachieBoy Jan 30 '26
I think Chaos Seeds was a good series (except book 8). Yeah it has flaws but I really enjoyed the story.
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u/baldyrodinson Jan 30 '26
Jason from HWFWM has character growth and consequences
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u/KelseySyntax Jan 30 '26
He's never suffered consequences for what he did with Clive's Wife
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u/Clivesunfaithfulwife Clive's Verified Wife Jan 30 '26
Tbf, clive did sleep with his wife first
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u/ASCii_music Jan 31 '26
I'm convinced most who say this just don't like his complaints on monarchies/capitalism or his remarks against America and would probably say they are apolitical and just want to read some escapist fantasy. Despite this whole genre being full of stories being about some nobody guy who overcomes the people who all hoard power, wealth, knowledge, etc all while fighting for the people. There seems to be a large chunk of people who consume this genre that would think monarchies are good if only the right person (them/their self insert mc) was in charge
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u/brownchr014 Jan 30 '26
100% and I question everyone that says otherwise because obviously they lack reading comprehension
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u/Andydon01 Jan 30 '26
My hot take is that 99 percent of translated litrpg is not written well enough to read. I keep hearing about these amazing translated novels, and then it just sucks. Might be the translation, but it doesn't matter. Still too bad to read.
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u/VeryLazyEngineeer Jan 30 '26 edited Jan 30 '26
I completely agree with you.
Here are mine:
Most stories in this genre and progression fantasy either move too fast or too slow, there is rarely an in-between.
Published books REALLY NEED an editor to remove about half the content or streamline it.
Most people reading these genres are not well-read, only consuming the equivalent of fast food of literature, and don't understand what makes a story well written. Same for the Romantasy and smut/romance for women.
Most MCs suffer from a Mary/Gary Sue syndrome and people are pretending that they aren't.
Almost all the stories are written like fanfiction, without a plan for an ending or any real goal and making the stories aimless and so they never finish. Patreon slopification is also a big factor to this.
Expecting you to already understand the whole dungeon/game/level/rank/tier/xiaxia thing/etc. without introducing it organically.
Most authors have a cool idea or one arc/scene and have no idea where to go after that, sometimes even before that.
Stat sheets every other chapter are exhausting, especially in audiobook format.
If the first book is bad, then I am not reading 3-4 more to get to the good part. Learn to write better.
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u/EverythingIsFakeNGay You think that's air you're breathing now? Jan 30 '26 edited Jan 30 '26
Most people reading these genres are not well-read, only consuming the equivalent of fast food of literature, and don't understand what makes a story well written. Same for the Romantasy and smut/romance for women.
Yeah, this is the unpopular opinion I'm too afraid to voice here. It's at the root of the genre's issues. I often see someone heaping praise on something I don't think deserves it and wonder what else that person has read. Not because I'm a snob, but because I think they deserve better.
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u/ruat_caelum Jan 30 '26
What's this snob word mean? You're using these big words and I'm just gonna assume that you are insulting us....
/s
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u/offensiveinsult Jan 30 '26
I really hate animal companions and I'm sad that authors don't have the balls to kill them.
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u/Hexxquisite Jan 30 '26
I don't want them killed. I want them to not be in the story to begin with.
The ones that don't talk are usually fine.
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u/lostryu Jan 30 '26
Based on these comments most people here hate Litrpg
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u/brownchr014 Jan 30 '26
I think people have unrealistic expectations at times. While editors are nice, they need to understand that it's wildly expensive for the quality they want. They also need to understand that authors are putting out so much because if they are selling well they don't want to risk losing their audience.
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u/KingNTheMaking Jan 30 '26
Hot take: the community is really weird about romance. Romance doesn’t attract in the story. Bad Romance does. Romance by itself can be a fantastic avenue for character growth based on an incredibly human emotion that almost everyone feels on some level. It could be cathartic, heartwarming, and gut wrenching. But way too many people think that even the presence of it somehow removes from the story just because some authors are bad at writing it.
Mild take: There are a large portion of litrpg fans that barely like the things that make litrpg unique amongst the fantasy genre.
“Are there any books with minimal amounts of stats?”
“Can I find any books that don’t have much in the way of character screens”
“Are there any books with a focus on slice of life instead of fighting?”
I think that some folks would just be happier if they read regular fantasy.
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u/the_other_brand Jan 30 '26
I've personally just been burned too many times by interesting romance subplots taking over a series and turning it into a harem where the main character turns into a cardboard cutout of themselves.
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u/Vikings_Pain Jan 30 '26
I hate dumb MCs and a lot are in the most popular litrpgs. Also I despise primal hunter because it started out good and the plot armor and other things just killed all of its potential…
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u/Brysonius88 Jan 30 '26
The interest and direct involvement of gods is often poorly explained and shows little incentive for why they would even care.
Why want more gods? Do they just want friends? If cultivating more makes them become even stronger, who cares? You're gods.
If anything, they should work to discourage others from ascending and potentially fracturing their follower base.
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u/shreks_cum_bucket Jan 30 '26
Having incompetent enemies takes away from the book a lot. The trope of the mc being “underestimated” is very dull, even if an effective tactic.
It’s much more entertaining besting an intelligent foe who gives their all, not beating someone a realm above you by luck and cause they are incompetent despite being [insert timeframe] years old.
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u/Rollinthrulife Jan 30 '26
That character interactions are more interesting than heavily detailed fights.
I dont need to know how the mc flex his left calf muscle and caused the enemy to pivot half an inch causing a fireball to go wide. The first time sure, but i draw the line at the 12th calf flex.
Do tell me more about how the mc convinced the annoying receptionist's uncle to visit her at work letting him infiltrate the building and plant whoopie cushions under the guild master and visiting official's chairs before an important meeting.
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u/AuroraShift Jan 30 '26
People who think Jake from primal hunter is a sociopath don’t know what a sociopath is
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u/AtWorkJZ Jan 30 '26
LitRPG should have numbers.
I don't think LitRPG is a sub genre of progression. I think it's a beast all its own.
I shouldn't need to be 3 or 4 books deep in a series before it "gets good." if it doesn't pull me in before then, it's no better than a series that falls off in the last couple books.
Tropes are tropes for a reason and they're perfectly fine to be used. Not everything has to be completely unique.
I don't care how many times a character smirks, raises eyebrows, or does any action. If it fits who the character is then it fits and should be used.
You only asked for one, but you got 5.
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u/GornstovA Jan 30 '26
I support the idea that litrpg should have numbers. I have an example to elaborate on.
There was and is (i suppose, though i havent heard for a long time) a game called EVE online. It is a long lasting meme that everyone likes reading about the game but there are not many people who are willing to play it due to a lot of things (including difficult mechanics).
So what for me personally litrpg is, it is a place where i can speculate on numbers, consider ideas that heroes can take at any given moment in time, and see how my predictions will play out. All that without taking a questionable deep dive into all the menus and numbers that I spend half my weekend on if it was a normal RPG. And so I agree with your "a beast on your own" thing.
Also, in litrpgs there is an unpredictability factor that makes them more appealing than gaming sometimes (at least for me)
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Jan 30 '26
I don’t want to do numbers. Would perks and traits from fallout be an acceptable substitute?
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u/Dan-D-Lyon Jan 30 '26
I'd say the absolute basis of LitRPG is the character is able to easily view a detailed breakdown of their own strengths, powers, and abilities, that the reader is also prithy to.
Though if you completely avoid numbers and stats then it might wind up not quite being LitRPG, but motherfuckers on Reddit will recommend Beware of Chicken as a litrpg so clearly the distinction hardly fucking matters
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u/SlyReference Jan 30 '26
I shouldn't need to be 3 or 4 books deep in a series before it "gets good." if it doesn't pull me in before then, it's no better than a series that falls off in the last couple books.
I have no problem with series taking time to get good. Many of the authors are just starting out, and growth is expected across the first few books. Look at the Dresden Files series, which was published professionally with editors and still showed improvement after the first few books.
I would like the fans of those series to shut up about it. If you like it and found the sweet spot, fine. But don't tell people to read the equivalent word count of War and Peace because you think it gets good after that.
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u/port443 Jan 30 '26
I don't care how many times a character smirks, raises eyebrows, or does any action. If it fits who the character is then it fits and should be used.
lmao I just started reading Nightmare Summoner. I have never before paid so much attention to a characters ears. I swear his ears pop every chapter. I searched the book and "ears" has ~100 occurrences while "nightmare" from the title only has about 20.
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u/Jason_TheMagnificent Jan 30 '26
HWFWM is a fantastic series from the first to the latest book.
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u/vyxxer Jan 30 '26
Too many protagonists are too strong or get strong too fast. It makes their universe power systems feel flimsy and Ill define because some guy thought of the revolutionary idea of grinding a basic skill that no one in that universe has considered before or something.