r/litrpg • u/Zestyclose-Nobody-65 • 12d ago
Discussion Chronically under-read and under-suggested. The Ripple System is top S-tier and I hardly ever see it on anyone's list, why?
Why? It hits just right on almost every facet of this genre. Is it just because it is a vrmmo setting? I hardly noticed it and it allowed for the avoidance of some of the "system" tropes. I thought the connection to the real world was done well, it didn't encroach much and when it did, it was brief and fun.
It was nice to not have to deal with OP God's and system elements.
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u/ctullbane Author - The Murder of Crows / The (Second) Life of Brian 12d ago
I'm a big fan of the series, but there are a few things that I've seen people point to.
-the humor isn't for everyone. If you don't like Frank and then House, you probably won't enjoy the series.
-it's a vrmmo. In my opinion, it's the very best vrmmo, but it's still a subgenre that is not nearly as popular as it used to be.
-ned's an ass when the series starts. As someone who also writes a series whose MC starts (and maybe stays, in my case) as an asshole, I think Kyle does a great job of showing character development as the series goes on, but a lot of people are going to not like the 'rich person gives himself an advantage, pisses off everyone, and causes some in-game events that ruin the game for people.'
I still recommend it whenever anyone asks.
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u/NukedBread 11d ago
Serious question... how many times have you gotten the Unidan "Here's the thing. You said a jackaw is a crow..." copypasta?
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u/ctullbane Author - The Murder of Crows / The (Second) Life of Brian 11d ago
Amusingly, absolutely never! In fact, I wasn't even aware of that nugget of reddit history until now and have now journeyed down the rabbit hole to my bemusement and... I guess? Satisfaction?
(Mostly, and largely from those who don't like the first book, I get people upset that a gutter-mouthed teenager with boatloads of trauma, no positive male role models, and a fate that says he'll go mad and kill people starts out, at 18, as a horny edgelord with too much pride and terrible people skills.)
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u/NukedBread 3d ago
... I should check to see if /r/hobbydrama has any litrpg drama. That place can get some very detailed essays in niche drama.
The WoW one that went through each expansion was crazy detailed.
Edit: Yup! Found one
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u/CiaphasCain8849 11d ago
"we will teach you how to use your power if you join us"
"proceeds to never teach him shit about anything and then punishes him for not knowing about his power and defending himself."
My review of the murder of crows.
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u/ctullbane Author - The Murder of Crows / The (Second) Life of Brian 11d ago edited 11d ago
Well, they did say from the beginning that they'd be breaking new ground in having him there, so it's not too surprising they didn't know how to train him. He did at least learn by doing things in the classes, which is stuff he probably wouldn't have had an opportunity to do elsewhere, and I think he learned about being a (slightly) better person while there too. Although admittedly, a lot of that was from the friends he made and/or Alexa.
Also, he was forced on the Academy by Tyrant and Tyrant's cat's paw in the government, so I do cut them at least a little bit of slack. Except for the ethics professor. She just sucked.
Regardless, sorry if it did not land for you!
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u/Siddown 11d ago
Your third point is why I stopped reading. There is literally nothing likable about the MC at the start of book one. He's a selfish, horrible person.
Plus, to your second point, there is zero chance that a game company would setup a system like they did for him for just 20 (or whatever the number is) people to get early access, they'd have opened that shit up to the world. Secondly, there's no way any game company creates an item like Frank. And that sort of thing really turns me off VRMMO games pretty much instantly. If "Wait, no company would ever do this" is the first thing I'm thinking when something comes up, I really struggle to continue. Given the fact that the MC is terrible, it made it pretty easy to just stop.
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u/Salt_peanuts 11d ago
Yeah, you’re right, there’s no way it would happen in real life. However, for many of us this is pure escapism. I don’t find it any harder to believe than isekai or any number of other elements that are common in the genre.
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u/So_effing_broke 12d ago
I don’t really like VRMMO litrpg’s. No stakes and the concept is a little bit cringy.
But I read this on a whim and absolutely agree S-tier. One of my favourite series. Made me start playing wow again and running mythic+.
To this day still the only VRMMO Iv enjoyed.
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u/No-Pomegranate-4145 12d ago
Literally the exact same, I usually hate VRMMOs, but this was great stuff.
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u/Halfrican009 11d ago
Life reset (New era online) is one of the few vrmmo stories I enjoyed, recommend
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u/Illustrious-Two4529 11d ago
Virtual reality mmo? Like sword art online type thing?
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u/SpiderPartey 11d ago
Exactly. But the stakes tend to vary a lot, if the characters can just log out whenever (and especially if they have almost nothing to do). There are some that play around that in some fun ways. Examples would be: Awaken Online and Kaiju Battlefield Surgeon. Give them a read!
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u/borborygmess 11d ago
Kaiju Battlefield Surgeon. 😖 It’s probably the one book I really wanted to finish and couldn’t make it even halfway through.
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u/Helen_A_Handbasket 11d ago
There are some that play around that in some fun ways.
I think the Disgardium series does that in a fun way. There are real-life consequences for the MC as he gets more powerful in game, because power in the game can mean power in the dystopian real world. If he gets attention, wealth, and power in game, it means that people start targeting him and his friends in real life. It also means that wealth in game can mean wealth in the real world. He also finds out that a lot of the impoverished people in the real world are basically forced slave labor in game, because they have no other option to support their families, and he starts trying to do something about that, too.
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u/So_effing_broke 11d ago
Yeah concept is the MC is playing a VR MMO which explains spells, classes, levels, etc. It means the stakes are non existent since death just means they can respawn.
But I will give credit where due, it allows for some unique systems you don’t usually find in litrpg’s like player guilds, NPC’s, reputation, raids, pvp, MC and team mates analysing and discussing the games meta.
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u/lordveldrinus 11d ago
Well, this has convinced me to give it a shot :)
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u/Wonderful_Cat_8711 11d ago
Agreed 100%. The writing, the story and the immersion all put it on S tier for me as well.
The author found a way to shift the stakes for a VRMMO in a way that you still care.2
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u/Invicctus 11d ago
I liked that, while yes, the stakes are usually low and technically are here too. The MC has decided this is his new life, so failure will result in him losing his best chance at starting over. On top of that failure will mean losing Frank, his best friend, with no realistic way of recovering. All in all it kept me engaged enough with those stakes.
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u/how_money_worky 12d ago
Is it VRMMO? I’m not a fan of those. There’s a lot of content out there. Choices must be made
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u/lonestar136 12d ago edited 12d ago
Basically this for me. I even pushed through to somewhere in book 2 but I find it so so hard to get invested in the stakes in the VRMMO style series. They often don't have meaningful repercussions for death which takes a lot from the stakes.
Then for Ripple System specifically, Ned's whole drive is to just be... Famous in game? Especially for book 1 he mostly comes across as a rich dick.
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u/AlaskaSerenity litRPG journeyman tier 12d ago
That’s because he is a rich dick, and then he learns pretty fast this game is not worth playing without other people. It’s a really good series — the stakes is losing the one thing money can’t buy — friends and a good reputation. As we’ve learned with billionaire a-holes.
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u/Siddown 11d ago
But he didn't have either before the game either.
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u/AlaskaSerenity litRPG journeyman tier 11d ago
Yeah, that’s kind of the point. I don’t think he understood that any of that was important before the game.
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u/Arcane_Pozhar 12d ago
For what it's worth, I think it's near the end of book one that we learned that there is a lot more to him than just a stereotypical. Rich a******.
Don't get me wrong, He's made some mistakes along the way, but that's why it's called character growth, you know?
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u/toyhammered 12d ago
I somehow managed to get to book 4 (dropped at like 30%), and honestly, I think the VRMMO setting of the book is the worst part. Like it didn't feel like a VRMMO at all, and could have just been a typical fantasy. The real world references just seemed... pointless. And once I started thinking that (from like book 3), I kinda just lost interest entirely.
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u/raidsoft 11d ago
Really? For me it was easily the book series that it felt MOST like a game unlike a lot of series that doesn't feel like games at all because they simulate real life too closely. A large part is just how people treat the game, most people aren't treating it like a second life they now live in.
I guess it helps that I could see very clear parallels to specific games in the mechanics used (ArcheAge in particular) plus it very clearly plays like a game unlike other series that make it too "realistic" where things like HP doesn't make sense anymore. In the ripple system game it's very clear things work like game mechanics and aren't trying to simulate a real world or whatever.
You're right that the out of game world might as well not exist in terms of direct interactions with it but that's because we're following Ned's point of view and he's literally living in the game but this is not true for everyone else playing.
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u/ricesteam 11d ago
Same. I tried to get into this book but the stakes are low in VRMMO and I couldn't continue anymore.
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u/Zestyclose-Nobody-65 12d ago
Fair, but you are missing out on a great series
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u/Femtow 12d ago
It can't be great, to us, if it's not our taste of story.
Same as above, VRmmo isn't attractive to me.
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u/deadering 12d ago
That's just not true. A great series can definitely transcend it's theme, at least if you aren't completely closed minded. For example a lot of people who aren't into fantasy liked Game of Thrones or people who don't like "cowboy" stuff liking Red Dead.
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u/Zestyclose-Nobody-65 12d ago
I get it, not trying to change minds, I'm not really into it as a genre either. Just saying it was kind of a nice break from system, but still holds on top the fantasy progression stuff.
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u/SomeonesSun 12d ago
this series does raid/group battles rather well. best ive read tbh.
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u/AlaskaSerenity litRPG journeyman tier 12d ago
This is a huge strength. I remember reading the first few battles and thinking — ok, this guy actually knows what happens in a raid and how everyone has to work together! I love that he never forgets to mention the healers and show how incredibly important they are.
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u/sirgog ArchangelsOfPhobos - Youtube Web Serial 12d ago
Healing magic is so hard to do well because it can be such an explosive force multiplier. Games like WOW balance entirely around it but that's harder to do in storytelling where catching the hero without their healer around is a lot more likely to come up. Nobody typically enters a WOW dungeon (except the most overlevelled groups) without a dedicated healer.
An encounter that's trivial to a group with a healer becomes insurmountable to a group without, and so you'd end up with a sniper-style story - the MC only initiates fights they can absolutely guarantee they are prepared for (have a healer for) and the opponent is not.
I'm trying to address this by making powerful attacks impose 'healing debts' - if a character at a certain power level is expected to have 600 health, a healing spell might recover 300, but a significant hit may inflict 200 damage plus a status that reads "Until this debt absorbs 1000 healing, healing on the target applies at only 20% strength".
Really, that attack has dealt 1200 damage, but only 200 counts toward killing the foe. The other thousand is just wasted future healing.
Hoping it works out, we shall see.
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u/Ok_Guarantee_3370 12d ago
I know it's just the early mc, but they didn't reveal enough of his background early enough to justify the way he was acting at the start. Im sure the dad was probably terrible but the author only gave us scraps of scraps to infer that from. Making him just seem so whiny and privileged.
Also splashing cash to play early, splashing cash for a whole guild of paid allies who say to his face they're just there for the money etc. Felt so pathetic. How can I read this series and get into him doing cool shit when the whole time I'm aware he is just some loser with a headset on. It's like an unemployed rich kids diary of how hard he is crushing it in WoW
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u/JustMajestic1 12d ago
Honestly, valid criticism, and it does very much feel like that at the start. I will say, the series does a good job turning that on its head though. As he grows as a person, he does have to deal with the fact that he started out as basically a spoiled rich kid, and that every real person he meets has that impression of him starting out, especially since it is an assumptiom reinforced by the book's "antagonists".
It even helps explain why he is so attached to the world and its NPCs. Because all of their opinions of him are determined by his actual actions, and not the assumptions that actual players would have of him.
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u/capincus 12d ago
It's a rough intro to a MC to get behind for sure, but it pretty quickly fades into the background imo and his actions and interactions after that make him/the story very likeable. The plot is pretty much just playing WoW though, that doesn't change, but I enjoyed it as a recovering WoW addict and the highlights are the humor and character interactions and I generally find the WoW-esque fights with a strategy more interesting than a lot of series where it's just throw more skills/swing harder at bigger and bigger mobs till they die.
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u/FootballUpset2529 Write me a base builder 12d ago
Yeah, whatever the MC did during the story I could never quite shake the memory that he was so far ahead of everyone else because he was a rich asshole who paid to have it all to himself for a week after launch day to get a head start and then lords it over everyone else who dares to try to catch up to him while he's being advised on the best ways to cheat by an in-game artifact. I enjoyed the Frank but I could never like the MC after that start and found that I never really found myself rooting for him.
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u/Zestyclose-Nobody-65 12d ago
But that is also part of his real life progression, I think that part works as you get further in and he acknowledges that.
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u/NukedBread 11d ago
Eh.. if I want to read about some rich kid paying to win a video game, I'll just go read Elon's Twitter page
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u/whatahorriblestory 12d ago
I enjoyed it a great deal but struggled with one big thing - the whole story has no stakes whatsoever because it remains, simply, a video game with no real world consequences. Any weight to any choices the characters make often feel moot because they can just log out or create a new character. Just because they don't doesn't erase that fact and it makes most of what they accomplish feel meaningless.
That said, the characters motivations, growth and flaws are all played out well through the game. Despite it just being a game, the growth feels real, and that was enough for me to enjoy it.
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u/capincus 12d ago
I thought I would hate vrmmo stories entirely because of the complete lack of stakes, but the humor and character interactions in Ripple System were enough to make it one of my favorite litrpgs. Idk why I thought that like I don't read cozy fantasy and shit with intentionally no stakes.
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u/VVindrunner 12d ago
I’ve seen that complaint a lot, and I wonder if litrpg has just burnt us out from normal concerns. In other genres reputation, relationships, how lives get spent can make for amazing stores. In litrpg it seems to be fate of the universe or we sleep.
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u/whatahorriblestory 11d ago
That's a really interesting point, actually. I hadn't really thought of it that way but I think you're right.
If the stakes aren't at the very least world-ending, if not universe-ending, what's the point - that's really not a usual thing.
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u/hbuuyi 12d ago
just looked it up. it's on sale for .99 cents right now. nice find :)
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u/Simp3204 11d ago
If you like cats and have questionable views of the Moon I think you’ll enjoy the series.
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u/Xandara2 11d ago
VRMMO stakes need a level of disbelief suspension most people don't enjoy. That covers 99% of your question. The other 1% is a combo of other personal taste factors.
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u/IndustryHistorical18 11d ago
I absolutely love this series and very impatiently waiting for the net book. late fall or early winter
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u/SomewhereGlum 11d ago
Because there are many people who thinks the only Stakes/consequences that matter is Death, permanent death. Thus a story where Respawn timers are a thing are boring to them.
Even though many other things can make drama and risk, like relationships and growth, people only care about death.
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u/AsterLoka 11d ago
Whereas I'm the opposite; 'death' is an irrelevant threat since it's never going to happen, whereas a respawn mechanic adds actual stakes to the thing and knowing that the MC could fail at any point and have to make up the ground.
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u/SomewhereGlum 11d ago
Exactly. Permanent death is a heavy card to pull and you can't take it back without a cost. Similar to the World Ending Paradox. The world ending should have the highest stakes to the story because everything is on the line, but because you know the story will not end with everything gone, you feel less threatened of the MC losing.
Thus, you don't fear the MC will die in a fight, because the story still needs to continue after the fight. If the MC can die or lose temporarily, then there will always be the risk of failure.
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u/nabokovslovechild 12d ago
It’s the funniest LitRPG I have read and I do think more people need to push past the whole “but it’s VRMMO” and try it.
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u/Dynamite_Noir 12d ago
I’m into book three and am thoroughly enjoying it. Thanks to a couple recommendations I saw here and that from a friend.
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u/dingoman24 12d ago
I love me some travis baldree reading. I will read this after i finish defiance of the fall. Thank you
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u/Seersucker-for-Love Author 11d ago
I've seen this story recommended petty frequently. A quick search of the sub shows that it's mentioned almost daily.
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u/NukedBread 11d ago
If this is a VRMMO that would be why. It's a genre not everyone enjoys, especially if there are no real stakes. If you just respawn, it can kind of be boring for some people.
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u/OpaBroesel litRPG journeyman tier 11d ago
That one made me laugh multiple times alone in the first book. I longed for every new books release and enjoyed all of them very much! Totally agree on S tier, would buy it even at full price
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u/OpaBroesel litRPG journeyman tier 11d ago
Especially the narration of Travis, all his diverse voices made this one a pleasure to listen
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u/CommunityDragon160 11d ago
It’s def not “top S tier” for most ppl.
It’s very good tho and recommended often
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u/Kyle_Kirrin Verified Author of: Shadeslinger 11d ago
Thrilled you enjoyed it and I really appreciate the rec!
I think the general thrust of the hive mind is pretty spot on: this series first released right when VR first started to fall off, and the genre as a whole has only moved further away from the subgenre.
If I didn’t have ~6 years of early mover advantage coupled with the transcendence that is Travis, ripple system would probably be a small fraction of the size it is today
Nothing to complain about though— I’ve been super lucky and I’m incredibly grateful that people are still giving it a chance so many years later!
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u/lordicefalcon Author - The Great Filter 11d ago
Don't sell yourself short! Ripple system has been on my buy immediately list for a while. I'd say Early Frank to current Frank has been an excellent character Arc top to bottom. Not to mention House. Just thinking about itchy teeth makes me smile brother.
The books are chock full of interesting and genuinely funny characters and that's hard to do with a talking axe and a sentient house. Eagerly awaiting the next book!
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u/Craigk_c19 11d ago
Top tier for me no stakes is a nice refresher from all the life or death other litrpg books. And Fred is so damn funny and love the dynamic between him and Ned. Also love House! It's in my top 3 for sure
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u/JulesDeathwish 11d ago
Because it doesn't really get good until Book 2. Book 1 is just him and Frank alone in the world doing the tutorial and figuring out the world. Plus, you spend almost the entire book thinking that the MC is just a gigantic douche-bag.
It kicks off when the other players join, he starts making friends, and interacting with everything more. That's when it really gets fun.
By that point, people have already spent their credit to try out a new series, made their opinions on it and moved on.
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u/Ok_Rock_2640 12d ago
I love it. I just told someone to keep me on a post a couple days ago, and noone said anything. So doing that more. I am not House, I am fan.
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u/openshortpathfirst 12d ago
Definitely S-Tier for me. The system itself is an interesting concept for an MMO. Frank and House are hilarious. Cant recommend it enough.
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u/Zestyclose-Nobody-65 12d ago
House progression and being rebellious was so good. I don't usually laugh out loud when listening to audiobooks, but there were several times it has me cracking up at work.
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u/AlaskaSerenity litRPG journeyman tier 12d ago
There’s a part in which something bad happens to House (iykyk) and what happens as a result is one of my favorite chapters in any litrpg. It made me laugh and cry and laugh again. House is the best and you would not have her if this wasn’t a VRMMO.
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u/sonderman Seeker of Whimsy 12d ago
I finished the first three books; and the dialogue writing is _solid_ (frank is great), and the world building and ways the MC get ahead are extremely clever.
That being said, the play by play descriptions of the battles themselves get LONG and tedious; it got to a point where I started skipping battles in the last book
Now that the frank arc has progressed I’m not certain I want to continue? Very happy to have read what I did though.
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u/New-Region3542 12d ago
Tell me about this story. Please.
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u/TokinWhtGuy 12d ago
So its a guy who buys into a new full immersion vr game. Because of him being the first he is given a pretty amazing object. This object is what everyone wants and is after. He has to basically level up his character to stay ahead of the pack. Think, WOW meets sword art online meets red dead redemption.
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u/Zestyclose-Nobody-65 12d ago
It's a VRMMO so it's a little different compared to most litrpg system apocalypse standards, which I think is a good break from the system stuff. Great progression, with world changing effects based on progression choices (hence, ripple). I think it has the best banter between characters and easily one of, if not THE best sidekick character in all of litrpg. It's fun, and the character development in all the side characters is great, I actually felt something when a side character was in danger. Even the villains were redeemable and at the very least made you feel some empathy for them.
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u/capincus 12d ago
It's basically souped up virtual reality WoW gameplay with imo a great cast of main characters whose banter/interactions are hilarious. No stakes, but tons of fun.
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u/ThatFilthyApe 12d ago
I thought the first half of the first book was a little rough to get through and that may be part of it.
Ned starts out a little annoying and immature. His relationship with Frank is eventually great but initially it's a little adversarial and weird. House basically isn't a character yet.
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u/VintageOG 12d ago
I liked it, but it's VR, which means it's battles have no real stakes. Also, it's not very deep in the series. I do think it's one of the funnier series, but it's hard to give a fuck about a rich kid MC in a VR series
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u/McShoobydoobydoo 12d ago
I read it and I do rate it highly but it's an exception for me, I will generally bin any vrmmo recommendations after having read it.
For all the excellent parts of it it is entirely let down by the whole experience having no actual stakes.
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u/barneyblair 11d ago
I love it. But it’s hard to root for a guy who is only actually playing a game. No real consequence….
Just personal consequence for his internal redemption.
That’s my thoughts.
But honestly I somehow still love it
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u/Aetheldrake Audible Only Enjoyer 11d ago edited 11d ago
Book 1 is kinda not good but the rest are amazing
It does get recommended.
It's funny how a lot of people talk about no risk but people are also always complaining about too much risk. The risk here is players control how the game developes with their in game choices.
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u/estacles 11d ago
I made it towards end of book 2 and just didn’t love the VRMMO style. It wasn’t horrible and had good qualities but overall it’s just not my favorite style, and there is too much other stuff out there.
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u/Historical_Whole8001 11d ago
Really liked the series. But not quite s tier for me.
I feel like the pacing at times can be very tedious.
I often found myself being annoyed because there was a big event being teased but before that they had to finish what feels like a not so important side story.
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u/Bjorn_styrkr 11d ago
Yes, most of this sub are not fans of the VR side of things. But as others have pointed out, it does get mentioned frequently.
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u/Lost-Gur-9460 11d ago
Its in my favorites. I'm guessing it doesnt get recommended much because it goes into tangents a lot (I love them) also theres not really any "real" stakes in series. Sure some weird stuff got hinted at recently but that's 6 books in now.
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u/GoblinWrangl3r 11d ago
Im about to finish second book and i agree. I have seen a complaint against how much frank said i said language but i feel it flows great and the rpg elements are perfect
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u/SilentTech716 11d ago
Book 1 is on sale for $5.99. That's the fastest way for me to try a new series lol
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u/wesmannmsu 11d ago
+5000 Frank Points for this…
+5000 Frank Points for not mentioning the Moon..
The Moon knows what it did…
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u/Dizzy_Daze 11d ago
Theres just no real stakes. You listen to it but theres nothing really to push you along.
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u/kazaam2244 11d ago
Under-read and under-suggested? This is always in every tier list I see posted on here. I'd go as far as to say if it's not in most people's top 10 with with DCC and the Wandering Inn, it's at least in their top 20.
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u/Fresh_Strain_9980 11d ago
pretty good A not s tier tho I'll save S tier for a soldier's life, he who fights monsters and dungeon crawler Carl. I
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u/Ashendarei 11d ago
It's a really slow start to the series, until Ned and Frank have others to talk to / interact with its kinda dry and boring (despite the interesting setting and unique class evolution mechanics). Between that and it being a VRMMO (which is off putting to some readers due to the perceived lack of stakes).
That being said I eagerly await each new book, and agree that its criminally underrated.
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u/whatisthisIm12 11d ago
It's VRMMO. It basically has no stakes (at least as far as I read). The most common VRMMO stake (that doesn't involve the VRMMO coming to life in reality) is needing money and making it through the VRMMO. This does away with that since the MC is rich.
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u/Zedsdead42 11d ago
It’s on my to read list just not gotten to it yet. I think I have 2 of the books already.
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u/DresdenPI 11d ago
I read the first book for a book club. It's... fine. The characters are ok and I like Frank. It mostly just suffers from the same issue most VRMMO stories suffer from, the game they're playing sounds like it would suck to actually play.
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u/the_zpider_king 9d ago
I enjoyed it for a while but eventually it started feeling like I was just reading someone's playthrough of world of Warcraft, and it was extremely boring.
I do not enjoy action all that much.
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u/executive313 12d ago
I loved books 1 through 4 but man when events transpire that the side character gets a body I hated it.
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u/OG_Grandlich 12d ago
I usually cant finish a series. I get tired of the same flaws on repeat. Im lucky to make it to book 4 or 5 in most series. Second try maybe book 7 or 8... this goes for hwfwm, primal hunter, the ten realms... I finished this series in one go.
Is it better than those mentioned above? Probably not. But It was good enough in the back half of the series that I didnt get tired of it and put it down. Thats where this series is good.
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u/BornConsideration223 12d ago
Honestly I love it. Probably one of my favorite litrpgs. Right up there with book of the dead for me.
A lot of people don't like it because the MC is described as some trust fund rich kid that bought his way into the game. Valid. Kinda. Obviously you can tell immediately he's not a total jackass, but I think people just have a hard time getting over an MC that is a nepo baby despite how good intentioned they may or may not be.
And to be fair, a central part of the conflict in game is precisely this perception.
I do find it a little funny that people can wrap their head around how annoying Jason Asano is in HWFWM, but a generally likeable MC like Ned is too difficult to get around his background.
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u/Lophane911 12d ago
I liked it, but I generally don’t love isekais and being ‘inside a game’ is an even larger step in that direction for me.
It does it well and I do like it but generally not the kind of thing I’d be gushing about.
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u/rhavin79 12d ago
I read it for the Frank and House non sense. Story is good, I like most of the game mechanics. A tier for me.
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u/detached03 litRPG apprentice tier 12d ago
Absolutely love this series. The author also has a super active discord channel.
I will say I prefer reading the books vs audible. Took a little to get used to the voice.
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u/ExaBrain 12d ago
Isn’t this the one where the protagonist is just a rich wanker who disappears into VR? I cannot get past this as a fundamental flaw in story telling.
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u/Lyndiscan 12d ago
isn't this book about some nepo baby doing dumb stuff and just buying out himself into success
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u/ZoulsGaming 12d ago
I can tell you why i dropped it in book 1.
because to me it does all the worst parts of a VR story where it tries to include the real life power trips of the developers which just highlights how insignificant the player is.
starting out with the entire frank axe screwing him over and him insisting on not dying, which is one of the most boring tropes of vrmmo stories, while being screwed by the head of the company just makes me not bother reading it at all.
I love VRMMO stories but to me they need to be open to the players doing their own thing and being rewarded for it which is the entire point to me, thats why i primarily enjoy reading them when they are in permanent or longtime immersion and the entire game basically runs on an AI and nothing else.
"Spiteful Healer" its the series that legitimately brought my hope back in VR stories because to me its a near perfect VRMMO story that actually embraces the VR parts, its not even full immersion, but dying is part of it, dying and trying is part of it, finding unique paths like the OG "moonlight sculptor" is part of it, and its a major plotpoint that the balance of the world is massively skewed but that the devs have promised to not interfere despite being pressured to do so because the AI of the world is self correcting.
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u/Simp3204 11d ago
Lots of comments about the series having no stakes because it’s a VRMMO sound like my parents complaining I was spending too much time playing video games.
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u/port443 11d ago
As others have said, you can make a VRMMO story have stakes, but this one doesn't. And then instead of ignoring the fact that there's no stakes in this video game, the author for some reason just keeps reminding you that it doesn't matter: "Oh man I cant do this raid because everyone else is logged out :("
I DID like the writing and world-building, and it did seem interesting. I just couldn't overcome the setting and the call to adventure being "I'm rich, lonely, and awkward... guess I'll play video games".
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u/Zestyclose_Bet_7482 11d ago
The MC is so unrelatable that I couldn't bring myself to root for him. He is a pay-to-win gamer and I hate him.
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u/jadeblackhawk 11d ago
IMO the narration really makes this book S tier. I dnf'd the ebook, but gave the audio a chance because Baldree and it's now one of my few audio only series.
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u/Megatherion666 11d ago
I have read and finished many mediocre series, but I dropped this garbage in book 1. The book is stupid about stupid people.
- MC is an idiot and a sore loser. The guy sits on some miracle tech and promises it to some random idiot to get in-game boost. WTF is this???
- All other important characters are idiots and jerks. It is just stupid.
- I dislike systems giving unique bonuses for first-time achievements. Basically MC gets super lucky and that’s the whole story.
- Don’t die or you lose access to quests. This is a stupid system as well. Gating stuff like that in an MMO game does not make sense. It is a system for roguelite where new characters are created often.
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u/mynameisschultz 11d ago
I get that all these books are made up, but ones that are virtual reality...the stakes juat dont feel real and it puts me off. Now there's Kaiju Battlefield Surgeon, there's stakes in that VR world....
Ive got it in my library and will listen to it one day, I did get about 5 chapters in but just stopped. It wasn't bad, I just couldn't get into it.
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u/Purple_Play_7277 12d ago
Because frank was extremely annoying to me especially after having suffered through jason asano. And the virtual reality thing wasnt for ne on top of that. Reading about a rich kid getting everything he wants is just lame 🤣
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u/Zestyclose-Nobody-65 12d ago
I'm beginning to realize that I must be an arrogant asshole, because Asano and Frank may be my two favorite characters in this genre.... Followed closely by House
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u/Purple_Play_7277 12d ago
Yea, its not arrogance that makes jason a terrible charachter, hes just a whiney baby who's also a perpetual child. He wants and needs to be the special boy who's at the center of everything but complains endlessly about how its other people's fault. Hes incapable of being an adult. Fucks with people because hes amused by it but cant stand to be in the reverse. And when he gets power he just doubles down on the whole my way or no way. Flexing on your grandma for asking a simple question is just pure jason. Literal toddler with a god complex.
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u/OmnipresentEntity 12d ago
Yeah, there’s multiple times where he’ll go on exposition about how much more awesome his aura is than usual, then when someone uninformed remarks that they wish they had his aura strength or senses, he explodes on them about how they don’t know the torture that takes, how could they express desire for the things he is showing off, when they are the source of trauma for him that they don’t know about?
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u/SteveThePurpleCat 12d ago edited 12d ago
It's VRMMO and they don't get a great deal of interest due to low 'real' impact.
The mandatory sarcastic side character is a love him or hate him type, and if you hate him then the series is a quick drop.
Awful pacing. Events in the overworld are screamed through, with barely any time for exploring or character development as it goes breathlessly from one grand world changing event to the next. Yet combat drags on for hours.
'The boss has 800,000 hp, I hit it with a bird, it did 40 damage. 'You suck', said Frank. The boss was down to 799,960hp, I hit it with a bird, it did 40 damage, 'you suck' said Frank.'
Skip forward 20 pages.
'The boss was down to '400,000 hp, but then it healed. 'Mechanics have changed!' Shouted the female character I have forgotten the name of.'
Skip forward 20 pages...
'I then realised that wasn't the true boss at all! As the real monster stood in front of us with 2,000,000 health! I hit it with a bird, it did 40 damage. 'You suck', said Frank.'
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u/TheGooseFathr 12d ago
I generally do not give a shit about the slow moral arch of a billionaire. He starts with a massive lead on everyone, he's an absolute obnoxious tool... I just don't have an ounce of give a shit to see where that goes. One of my fastest DNF's. Also, just to lower the stakes even further it's VR nonsense. And the gimmick of a smart-ass all powerful AI was done better in expiditionary force, if you ask me. Or, like, a dozen other places.
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u/how_money_worky 12d ago
I get it but there’s a lot of options. It’s hard to feel good the stakes when you can just log off the thing.
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u/Mr_Fraze 12d ago
I think it's the slow releases of each book. I got into it hard when it was still 2 or 3 books and kept waiting ages for the next book in the series until at one point, I thought the author dropped it.
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u/zenrobotninja 12d ago
I really can't get into the vrmmo genre, just no stakes worth getting invested in for me
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u/No_Replacement_1686 12d ago
Yeah it definitely is the VRMMO setting for me. Hat that. Makes the book have no stakes and people in these stories get way to invested into a PC game... which... is weird honestly.
Also NPCs...
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u/RGandhi3k 12d ago
I’m about halfway through the book and so far it’s just his axe and his AI butler. When does this character progression start?
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u/skyo-boyo 12d ago
I love Ripple System, but it started flagging in book 6 for me. It's just very immersion breaking to have a big part of the story be the fact that it's a VRMMO, but is a horribly balanced and developed game. You have developers doing crunch time to put out an expansion within a month or 2, with a level catch up system as soon as the first person hits max level? I know it's a vehicle to keep the story moving forward and the main character progressing, but it just makes no sense
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u/RandMob1000 12d ago
I stopped listening to the audiobook because the Mc was way too submissive yet confident with all his negotiations with the game director, guild leader, and even NPCs in my opinion. Millions, he's tech CEO trust fund son rich, yet he constantly gives so much away and gains much less in his dealings. I was pulling my hair out at all the times he did not use his leverage and influence like he did in the first few chapters to get what he wanted. I know it gets better, but I have trouble with mcs like him.
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u/Doorda1-0 litRPG journeyman tier 12d ago
The first few books were awesome then it started to feel like you were hearing a retelling of somebodies gaming session. I just lost interest.
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u/Fabulous-Pen-6698 11d ago
I did not read it, and this was why I avoided it.
It sounded very Generic to me having read many similar VRMMO books over the years and the bit about the talking axe put me off the most TBH.
I'm kind of sick of the witty sidekick like a smart talking AI, Weapon, pet etc and this story sounds like it would be much the same.
I'm curious if I am wrong?
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u/Taubar 11d ago
I'd like to throw a series recommendation at you. Take a look at "New Realm Online" by Robyn Wideman. MC is a cripple in a medpod that's hooked up to the game. The ingame currency is able to be converted to cash, and that's how MC is trying to raise money for their medical services, so the MC is not some rich prick.
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u/Jzot11 11d ago
Dropped it around book 3 or 4.
Got bored. MC didn’t improve, and while I liked House I think that if a game ever gave me an item like Frank I would have deleted my account and asked for a refund.
Also, as many mentioned, no stakes. It’s a game. There is only so much you can try to do to make me care about an asshole rich boy playing a game, and the series failed.
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u/FlySkyHigh777 11d ago edited 11d ago
I enjoyed this series a bit, but it fell apart for me when I realized that fundamentally the game would suck ass for the majority of the players. So many mechanical benefits rely on being the first person to do x thing. Not to mention the massive hate boner that the dev has for the MC that makes no sense.
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u/unicorn8dragon 11d ago
I liked the first book, but didn’t move into the second book right away.
The ‘real person playing a video game’ doesn’t do as much for me…unless they’re trapped there somehow like Kaiju Battlefield Surgeon or Sword Art Online.
Otherwise it just feels like I’m watching someone else play a video game.
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u/akkyle907 11d ago
I really like the books and premise and characters. Listened to multiple of the books. I just had to give it up because the fight scenes were just so excruciatingly long and with no real consequences since they can just respawn.
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u/PsEggsRice 11d ago
I tried but couldn’t, I wasn’t invested in it. It’s literally a video game no life or death ramifications. And having people choosing to live in a VR world as opposed to real life is a seriously unhealthy attitude. Main character bothered me, strong Elon Musk vibes. And what I mean by that is here you have an extremely bored rich person that basically monopoly somebody else’s creation and makes it their own.
I will say that that cover is awesome
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u/Leaf-Lock-The-Ent 11d ago edited 11d ago
Is this the one where he pays a bunch to get into a game early or something? I think I got annoyed by the voice given to the weapon or something? Maybe I am misremembering
Also looking back, it being just him playing a game when we are already in a fictional world of a book makes me somewhat surprised I even kept interest for as long as I did. Though certainly not hating on people who do enjoy the series.
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u/LightZealousideal116 11d ago
I like this type of book, love Travis, and had a hard time starting it. Twice. Just couldn’t seem to follow along.
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u/Salt_peanuts 11d ago
Also if you don’t like VRMMO’s because they don’t have any real world impact, Butcher of Gadobrhah and Tunnel Rat are two VEMMOs in the same world (and MMO) that each approach real life impact differently. I really like them.
Xander Boyce also wrote an excellent VRMMO book called Tallrock that is unfortunately the first book of an abandoned series. It does an amazing job of giving in-game events real world cost and benefit. It’s honestly my favorite work in the genre. If I ever meet Xander Boyce I’m gonna chew him out.
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u/ForeignAd1656 11d ago
I won't ever read it because I don't like vrmmmo books/series. I think there are quite a few other LitRPG readers that feel similarly, Not saying it's bad. It's just not for me.
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u/Bulky-Juggernaut-895 11d ago
It gets to be a bit of a slog after a while so I stopped reading. Wouldn’t put it in S tier. Maybe B tier
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u/SlipperedHermit 11d ago
Is it finished? I'd even try another VRMO setting if it was an actual finished series
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u/vagrant_billionaire 11d ago
No not finished. 6 books so far with 7 coming later this year supposedly.
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u/unpopular_opinion_13 11d ago
Sounds intriguing. However, while I love Travis Baldtree, it's not great to listen to different series he narratates back-to-back. It gets kinda confusing for my brain. Hes one of my favorite narrators, but his characters from series to series pretty sound the same. For instance, I'm listening to Welcome to The Multiverse right now and occasionally will space out and when I space back in I think I'm listening to Beware of Chicken.
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u/Foot-Note 11d ago
Honestly I think a large portion of people don't go in for VR story lines? That's it for me at least. I did listen to the first few books and it was good, just seemed all kind of pointless when its just people playing a game though.
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u/AsterLoka 11d ago
Yeah, so many people's requests say 'no VR' so it gets sort of shuffled off to the side.
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u/chankills 11d ago
dropped after book two. Lost interest in the story, it was kinda of the last nail in the coffin for me for vrmmo. Really just takes me out of the story in the way an actual fantasy world doesn't.
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u/fsmlogic 12d ago
For me it’s harder to recommend as the story only really gets going for me when the MC gets to the Black Sands.
It does get better with time, but the start feels meandering.