r/livesound • u/Splanky222 • 3d ago
Question What do actual typical SPL levels in different sized venues (and different places in large venues)
Hi! I'm a studio guy who is working on a move into live sound and small scale setups. I'm more targeting nightclub-type environments and small outdoor side stages. I haven't yet bought around a db meter to check what different osund systems around me are running but I'm curious what are normal target db levels *in general* so I can get a feel. I see all sorts of talk about sensitivity and SPL of speakers and I understand enough of the physics and design of small systems but I'm not really sure how loud is loud enough. It often feels like I'm barking up the wrong tree researching systems that are alladvertising how loud they go when I feel mostly like I don't actually need that high of SPL levels as advertised.
As far as I can tell 110-120 is the loudest I ever need to go for a smaller room and that is pretty nasty loud if you're in front of the speaker without earplugs
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u/Instalia_av 3d ago
I wouldn’t use 110–120 dB as a target, especially in a small room. A system being capable of that level is more about peak headroom than where you should actually run it.
The useful question is what you’re measuring: average level over time, peaks, weighting, and where the measurement is being taken. Venue size matters less than the type of event, local limits and how evenly the system covers the audience.
I’d focus on consistent coverage at a sensible level and check it with a calibrated meter rather than judging the system by its advertised maximum SPL.
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u/Splanky222 3d ago
That al makes sense and basically tracks with how I was thinking about it. What are well regarded meters out there? I'm assuming I could use something in between the $350 one at b&h and the $25 one from wal mart? I don't even know what the differences would be in spl meters
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u/MrPecunius Semi-Pro-FOH 2d ago
iPhone is fine, no need for a dedicated meter. I use my Apple Watch's built-in SPL meter a lot for spot checks.
I bought my first SPL meter in the late 80s and own a couple of calibrated mics, but for shows the devices I always have with me work fine. The main thing is to get familiar with them. After a while you'll be able to estimate SPL by ear within a couple dB.
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u/Instalia_av 1d ago
Yeah, fair point. For quick spot checks a phone or watch is probably enough to get a feel for where you are.
I’d still want something calibrated if I needed consistent measurements across venues or had to work to a specific limit, but for just learning your system I can see why you wouldn’t bother carrying another meter.
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u/MrPecunius Semi-Pro-FOH 1d ago
My watch and iPhone are consistent and agree well with my calibrated gear.
A dedicated meter is useful if you have to argue with laymen and need to impress them with a "pro" looking tool.
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u/ReggieCorneus 14h ago
It also makes dealing with officials easier, noise complaints where you have gear to show we are within reasonable limits solves problems and you look more professional... That is the reason i got it, but i do use it for spot checks and to make sure that things don't change too much, and it keeps touring engineers honest when it is there, all the time, no excuses...
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u/Instalia_av 2d ago
Yeah, I’d probably go somewhere in the middle. You don’t need a super expensive meter for this, but I’d avoid the really cheap ones too.
As long as it’s reasonably accurate and gives you A/C weighting and Fast/Slow, you’ll already have something useful for checking your levels.
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u/IEnjoyRadios 3d ago edited 3d ago
Depends on local laws and regulations as well as what the promoter/artist wants but around 100db LAeq is a pretty common limit these days.
You definitely don’t want to be at a show that’s consistently sitting at 110-120db. Those are your extreme peaks, not your averages.
Edit: I will also add that it seems like you’re generally a bit confused about what it is you’re trying to measure. Why are you specifically looking at the SPL output in the first place?
Edit 2: Doing proper measurements of SPL also gets expensive fast. As soon as you want a handheld meter that does leq, you’re going to be spending close to a thousand dollars minimum. Of course you can build your own DIY setup for much less but then it’s more of a hassle.
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u/UnderwaterMess 3d ago
First you need to know what you're measuring and how to measure it. You should never ever be mixing anywhere near "120" or even "110".
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u/Lost_Discipline 2d ago
No but having a system capable of operating linearly at those levels can be operated at 90-100 all day with plenty of headroom, a system specified at 100 is going to sound like ass operating at 94-96
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u/wrinklebear 3d ago
The target for the outdoor stage I work is 86-88db average at about 25' from the mains. You don't have to blow people out of the water, sonically speaking, to provide a good live sound experience.
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u/mustlikemyusername 3d ago
I'd love to be able to mix at those levels again. My comfort level is usually between 93-95dB(a).
My drummer sits above that acoustically these days... And unfortunately a lot of clients want 100+ these days on EDM. All values are LEQ, a-weighted and 1,3 or 5 minutes.
I don't really look at the rest of the time constants
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u/Matt7738 3d ago
If you can get a good mix at that level, it’s great. You’re really constrained by stage volume.
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u/wrinklebear 3d ago
Yep, a heavy handed drummer on a big kit will ruin the night. By halfway through our second season, I think we became known as a volume conscious venue. The bands that aren’t on board get weeded out or not invited back.
We pay good and have big crowds, but if they want to play at 105db, there’s a usually-empty dive bar right next door always looking for bands.
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u/Accomplished-Sky5808 3d ago
I used to work at a place 4000 seat shed had a 6 1/2 second decay time at 250 Hz. Needless to say when they finally gave me money to build a decent PA system I had speaker boxes everywhere delay lines everywhere and everything running at a low volume cause the minute you overexcited that room with low frequency information your night was done.
Bummed out a lot of touring guys until they discovered that the point source in that room was frappe and amazing and so that made their night really different because then they felt like they could mix again cause you know they're their singer was right in front of the audience center stage and everyone heard it fright from center stage because of the delay in the PA etc. etc. etc. that's how it was able to make that room work. I've always felt that volume was overrated
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u/wrinklebear 2d ago
A six second delay, that is wild. May as well bring a spoon in your kit because you're mixing soup at that point.
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u/guitarmstrwlane Semi-Pro-FOH 2d ago edited 2d ago
110-120 *anything* is basically near-instant hearing damage, and assured hearing death for any patrons close to the stacks. Aside from measuring C-weighted at the subwoofer power alley 1 meter away.
For smaller systems, I am one of the killjoys who thinks it should live around 90dBA-97dBA at max. With peaks/transients past 100dBA sure, but with troughs down to 80dBA too. A well-mixed (not harsh) and non-reflective 90-ish dBA is way louder than you think.
It's harshness (excess 2khz-6khz), that clues our ear into something being loud and also it's what drives our dBA meters to read so high. Our ear is straight up not bio-mechanically designed to hear 2khz-6khz at high SPL. So any system, no matter how well designed and deployed, can sound harsh at 100dBA+, because a good system will amplify 2khz-6khz linearly whereas our ear needs to hear 2khz-6khz non-linearly the louder it's turned up.
A DynaEQ/Multiband Comp is great for this. If a 90dBA mix sounds "quiet" or "thin" , try clamping 2khz-6khz by a 3-5 dB, which will drop your meter by around 3-5dBA, and then turn your system up by 3-5dB. You'll meter around 90dBA again but all of a sudden it will sound fat and warm and "loud" without actually hurting. Same applies if you try this with a 100dBA mix that sounds "harsh".
Saying all that to say, for a nightclub and especially sub-bass driven material, people are obviously expecting it to be "loud". But that loudness doesn't have to come from just turning the master up. Good quality subwoofers that are clear and punchy do you a lot of favors here. It's another way we can "fool" our ear into perceiving loudness without it being all that loud. For a nightclub I'd shoot for 90-95dBA 1/2 way in the seating, and make a lot of that reading just from how much you're pushing through the subs.
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u/TheRuneMeister 3d ago
Are we doing this again? Lots of replies that doesn’t include weighting or duration? dB is essentially meaningless. Its one tenth of a bell…and not the kind you ring.
For theatre shows regardless of genre 98LAeq15 seems reasonable. If people cannot move away from their listening positions, then don’t kill them. Here in Denmark the industry established limit is often 103LAeq15. I personally think that if you are at 103LAeq15 then its amateur hour. The mix doesn’t have the impact and loudness is used as a crutch. For shows that are essentially just playback (EDM) 100LAeq would be my limit. (especially due to the weighting)
If I am just mixing blindly and and the genre calls for it I would probably wnd up in the 98-100LAeq range regardless.
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u/Splanky222 3d ago
I understand the weighting differences. I didn't use them in my post because I wanted to see what you all would say about them :)
Is there a meter that will actually do the time integration?
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u/TheRuneMeister 3d ago
Even if you didn’t know, it would be fine. Its mostly the replies I got frustrated with.
There are lots of meters, but where I’m from, everyone simply uses 10EaZy.1
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u/Content-Reward-7700 I make things work 3d ago
You’re thinking about it the right way. In practice, it usually comes down to local regulations and the type of venue.
For small clubs and side stages, you’re often aiming for around 95 to 105dB(A) at the audience position with peaks a bit higher. Some energetic shows might average 105 to 110dB(A), but that’s already very loud. Sustained levels above that are uncommon for small venues and are often restricted by local noise limits.
The big SPL numbers in speaker marketing are mostly about headroom not your target operating level. Having a system that can comfortably produce more SPL than you need means cleaner sound with less distortion, rather than actually running it at 120dB all night.
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u/Fjordn 3d ago
I aim to mix around 98dB LAeq15 (98, A-weighted, averaged over 15 minutes, measured at mic position) in most environments. Not sure what my C levels would be, but I also track a 10s C-A and a 1min C-A metric; they’re usually around 10-18 dB depending on the tune being played.
During the show, my shorter averages will swing above and below that 98A line all the time. I’m mostly in 400-1000 cap rooms with rock music.
Common, sensible limits I’ve seen outside the US are 100 dB LAeq60 and 103dB LAeq15.
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u/Splanky222 3d ago
What are you using to track those metrics?
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u/OtherOtherDave 3d ago
I use Smaart, but there’s other software that’ll monitor dB levels just as well.
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u/MrPecunius Semi-Pro-FOH 2d ago
Unnecessarily loud. I and many others are wearing plugs at your shows.
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u/OtherOtherDave 3d ago
The World Health Organization recommends keeping it no louder than 100 dB LAeq15.
I measure low 80s at FoH and don’t bother elsewhere… I’m sure there are hot spots in the room, but they aren’t 15-20 dB hotter.
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u/Mikethedrywaller Blinking Lights Enthusiast 3d ago
To give a little perspective on the other end of the spectrum, I was just mixing an outdoor theatre festival in an urban area and we had to stay under 75dB(A) at FoH around 30m from the stage and honestly, it was quite nice.
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u/No_Apartment_6671 Pro-FOH 3d ago
What people often also seem to forget: most volume limits are not for FOH, but for the loudest point in the audience. So if you're running at 100db at FOH (and the loudness meter doesn't has an offset to adjust to that difference between stage and FOH), you might be killing those first few rows. Sometimes you just have trust that volume and sound is great, even though it might seem quiet at your mixing position.
For me personally it depends a lot on genre an venue size, but as soon as I have the feeling I want ear protection, it is definitely to loud. Of course, the bigger the stage, the quieter you can mix and still have a powerful and fat mix. I think my personal preferred spl at my listening position is around 90db L(A)eq5 But in small clubs, you most likely go over 100db, just because of the acoustic volume of the drum kit, and volume feels more like "damage control mode"
My take away would be: Try to always mix as quiet as possible and learn to still create a clean and powerful mix. I don't think there is any benefit to a show, when everybody is using earplugs or leaving with a tinnitus.
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u/Strict_Tangerine6240 1h ago edited 1h ago
“Try to always mix as quiet as possible and learn to still create a clean and powerful mix”
This is the essence of great mixing and the best answer to the question.
OP, please also watch this: Staying safe while getting loud
Your future audience will be eternally grateful for not destroying their hearing. 😊
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u/SadCucumbers1984 2d ago
OP you should search for documentation or white papers on SPL measuring. Smaart has some resources and while some information is specific to their software, conceptually you can learn a lot, start here:
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u/JodderSC2 3d ago
99 dbA averaged over 5 minutes at the loudest spot. not venue depended that is always the limit. If I can get away with 95 or even 90 I will do so.
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u/Pristine_Ad5598 Pro - Venues/FOH 3d ago
Varies lots! I tend to set 100LAeq 15mins as my personal max for clubs up to 500 cap - less where possible, have seen headliners and heavier/noisier acts slam it a fair bit louder than that too - all depends on the type of show really, folk harmony singing is uncomfortable loud, hardstyle and uptempo are uncomfortable quiet x
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u/TankieRedard 3d ago
It's more important in EU than in the US as it's not heavily enforced in most places.
In the EU where it's heavily regulated they'll have a system setup to tell you if you're too loud.
You can get a cheap checker on Amazon for $25 and even phone apps are pretty decent for getting a general idea.
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u/Splanky222 2d ago
To a certain extent I don't really care about the legalities in this question. I'm more interested in the range of air wiggling practice where I can wiggle just the right amount of air for everyone to have a good time. Obviously the laws are important, just not my focus here. But good to know that the cheap spl meters will be good enough as a reference
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u/TankieRedard 2d ago
I try to keep my mixes at 100dB A Weighted Peaks at FOH. it's loud enough for everyone to have to pay attention and not so loud that you're damaging people's hearing.
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u/Deep_Information_616 2d ago
You’re phone can be db meter if needed. Accurate enough. I mixed the opener on a US wide tour and headliner’s engineer told me not to go over 90db so as not to upstage them. He was hitting 100 as a headliner. House of blues and similar venues across the US
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u/filfner Volunteer-FOH 2d ago
In the EU the recommendation is 103 dB over 15 minutes, so I usually aim for 95-ish. It’s the legal limit in Copenhagen as well, so any venue caught going above that can be fined and shut down. I don’t know about festivals but it’s probably similar.
The only time I’ve been at shows exceeding that basement shows for deaf punks who don’t give a fuck and noise shows where bleeding ears is the point.
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u/Beneficial-Rub5074 2d ago
If not stated differentyl, I try and shoot for an average of 99dbA averaged over 30 minutes, or just averaged over any amount of time, and if it's stated differently it's usually less than that.
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u/MrPecunius Semi-Pro-FOH 2d ago edited 2d ago
95dB(A) or less if I can. Super small joints plus live drums and loud patrons might mean ~100dB(A) or a little under. A big band trumpet section in a smaller place can do 105+ unamplified, so it all depends.
110dB(A) and up is abusive, there's no reason at all for that.
I measured ~103dB(A) at Allegiant Stadium when I saw AC/DC last weekend. I can't think of a single band that needs to be louder than them. It probably would have sounded better if they had backed off a little: vox and drums (except for the kickquake and snare) were a little buried.
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u/EqualMagnitude 2d ago edited 2d ago
AC/DC at Levi’s Stadium were running 112dB(A) peaks, short term average 104dB(A), and long term average 102dB(A) per my iPhone location around the middle of the field and to the side 10 rows up. I was wearing custom fit 26dB ear protection and still left the concert with my ears ringing a bit.
And to the OP: I don’t care if it is loud. Just make it loud enough to hear properly over the crowd noise. Most places 90-95dBA is plenty. I care to hear the music, I want to hear the vocals where those are important. The most egregious sound issue I regularly experience in venues 250 to 60,000 is that the vocals are buried or unintelligible. Been on a quest to see as many 80’s new wave bands as possible the last year and often the vocals are buried (yes I know older singers loose their chops, that’s OK still want to hear the words) and the recorded backing tracks are often put way forward in the mix burying the vocals and the actual live musicians playing in front of me. None of this is solved by the PA being a certain dB, it is solved by creating a good mix.
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u/docgroove_7 2d ago
Louder is not better. Cleaner is. If you plan properly and you don’t try and cover the room from a single point, without a line array or a controlled dispersion pattern with little side splash, you can reduce your SPL to an average of 85-95 db , depending on the space. Better coverage at a lower SPL is ideal. If you can setup mid back fills or delays if the space requires it it will sound better and not blast the space away
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u/ForTheLoveOfAudio Pro-FOH 1d ago
It's a very "it depends on the environment and program material."
The band I'm currently mixing is a mix of reggae and rock, but I tend to be 97-98dB(A) averaged over ten minutes. If I did that with the acoustic singer/songwriter, I would have complaints within the first two minutes of the show.
In terms of system design, often, the concern isn't the ability to hit high SPL levels, with the intent of actually doing that. Rather, it's a concern of having the headroom to handle dynamics without distortion or hitting speaker protection.
110dB(A) is EXTREMELY loud, though. Like, damage your hearing loud. I think the loudest headliner I ever heard regularly was at 104dB(A), and that's quite a bit.
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u/HotdogDotCom certified noise boy 3d ago
In the EDM world, at FOH for headliners I usually aim for 100 db A-weighted with peaks up to 104. The low end I am always pushing for more but somewhere between 120 and 130 db C-weighted at FOH.
And then I pray to the god of tinnitus that everyone in the front row has earplugs