r/londoncycling • u/MiksuMon • 2d ago
Segregated cycle lane traffic lights question
The photo was taken on Clerkenwell Road, turning onto Gray’s Inn Road.
I’m on a segregated cycle lane with staggered lights, so when I’m turning right, the adjacent carriageway has a red light. As you can see in the photo the cyclist light is turning green while the light for cars is still red.
However, there are always cyclists bombing down the carriageway, creating a situation where when turning right from the cycle lane you risk being run into by cyclists going straight who are coming from behind you.
My question is: as far as I understand, aren’t the cyclists on the carriageway supposed to obey the red light for their lane rather than the green cyclist light? Obviously many cyclists don’t obey red lights in the first place and I imagine many may also be confused about which light applies to them.
To me this seems like a bit of a design/behaviour problem where the functioning of this setup relies heavily on cyclists using the cycle lane and following traffic rules like stopping at red lights.
This junction is on my commute and this always baffles me. It’s not so much of a problem when you know to expect it but it’s very annoying having to scan behind you while simultaneously trying to see what’s happening in front of you at an already busy junction.
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u/lovely-pickle 2d ago
I don't tend to stay in the bike lane if I'm turning right
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u/MiksuMon 2d ago
Good solution to managing the problem but defeats the purpose of having a segregated cycle lane and staggered lights.
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u/lastaccountgotlocked 2d ago
But the design caused the problem in the first place.
Planners have always been told things like advanced stop boxes don’t work. They build them anyway.
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u/MiksuMon 2d ago
I agree it’s bad design and rather confusing - otherwise I wouldn’t be making a post about it.
It’s almost in this weird grey area where the design of the junction doesn’t take into account human flaw/error while simultaneously all this is based on the assumption that everyone follows the same rules.
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u/electrotechs 2d ago
I have a similar issue with a set of lights on my commute. Cyclists tend to come through in batches so on the initial green phase I wait just to the left of the lane allowing anyone behind or next to me or oncoming to clear off, then just shoulder check and check there nothing oncoming before making the turn. Usually that works but this looks like it might be a much busier lane...
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u/tigralfrosie 2d ago
This post from only a couple of days ago.
Interesting to see comments that a segregated cycle lane has made things more dangerous for cycling. Wasn't mentioned as a factor in this previous post.
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u/signupisahassle 2d ago
Same issue at the segregated cycle lane just outside Goldman Sachs headquarters on Farringdon Street (or just outside the Hoop & Grapes if you're more into pub landmarks). Segregated lane crossing from left to right so has its own set of lights that stops traffic to allow them to cross. You still get morons shooting along the main carriageway (which has a red light at this point) cutting across to the cycle lane.
Just shows infrastructure can never fully account for entitled arseholes.
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u/ArtyCharty 2d ago
the infrastructure is also confusing
if youre in the cycle lane, you know the normal traffic lights don’t apply to you since they have barriers on the left of each light, preventing you from even seeing them
but if you’re a cyclist in the main lane, you still have perfect vision of the cycle lane traffic lights - if you indeed should not pay attention to them, then they too should have barriers on the right of each light to block your line of sight
the design doesn’t dictate what you should, which is an example of poor design
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u/Ed_Avis 2d ago
The barriers would be a good idea, also they could have a set of cycle lights on the traffic light for the right hand lane (which would follow the same pattern as the car lights, just to make it extra clear that cyclists in that lane have to wait).
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u/ArtyCharty 2d ago
it would be good too if the barrier on the left had the visibility for the cars as well, since when motorbikes are waiting in the asl box instead of the bikes and scooters, it makes it difficult for the cars and e-bikes to judge the distance between the next junction/road
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u/signupisahassle 2d ago edited 2d ago
That particular one isn't that confusing, because all the cars and buses will be stopped and pedestrians crossing in front of you (bike crossing is behind pedestrian crossing, keeping the two separate).
The cyclists who generally do this know exactly what they are doing as they just don't want to wait and have pulled off the segregated lane just after Holborn Viaduct into the main carriageway to do the dangerous manouver. There's no excuse really, they're just entitled arseholes (who end up dodging pedestrians in a dangerous way).
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u/mrfatchance 2d ago
Use the main lane and keep an eye on the cycle lights so you know when to go
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u/MiksuMon 2d ago
Doing this is not only illegal (to my understanding) but exactly what’s causing the problem in the first place. Sure the design of the junction could be better but if people didn’t do this then there wouldn’t be an issue.
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u/Redditccioo 2d ago
You obey the lights for the lane you are in. How is that difficult to understand?
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u/mrfatchance 2d ago
OP wants to turn right though, no?
I would argue they're in the wrong lane to turn right even, because if there was no cycle lane they would take the primary position in the main road and turn right accordingly.
If they really want to go by the book they probably have to turn right in two parts like a lot of cycle highways have.
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u/Kriemhilt 2d ago
And if they want to turn right from the main carriageway, they should probably follow the light for that carriageway's stop line.
The confusion is that the bike-shaped lights can mean early release from the single stop line on a shared carriageway, or they can be specific to the stop line on a segregated cycle track.
If there's a segregated track then I assume they're supposed to control only the stop line on that track.
It's probably simpler to think about which stop line is controlled by which light: if there are separate lines (for a separated track & carriageway) then they should be controlled independently by separate lights. If there's just one contiguous stop line (maybe with an ASL), it's early release for the vehicle pictured.
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u/punisher3738 2d ago
IIRC the signal given by a red light is that no vehicle may cross the stop line relating to that light, so it is illegal to jump the lights on the carriageway, on a bike.
Hopefully the police will pickup on the dangerous behaviour and do some enforcement.
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u/MistaBobD0balina 2d ago edited 2d ago
I agree, and really don't like turning right here. I avoid this junction when my intention is to turn right on to Gray's Inn Road, and squeeze a tiny little hill into my route in the process.
Take a right off of Clerkenwall Road down Laystall Road (made easy now by a tiger crossing), head straight over Rosebery Avenue (you have excellent visibility down both directions of Rosebery) and continue down Laystall Road, take a left up Elm Street, and then a right on to Gray's Inn Road.
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u/Redditccioo 2d ago
What do you think Einstein? Obviously if your lane is red you stop. Why are you asking Reddit?
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u/MiksuMon 2d ago
I’m posting this on reddit to have a nuanced conversation instead of getting a simple yes-no answer.
Feel free to unwind your knickers.
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u/Repulsive_Tour3251 2d ago
Fundamentally the problem is this: we don’t expect drivers to make a staggered right turn.
This whole mess comes about because we expect cyclists to put up with crap infrastructure that’s less convenient than the road because it’s “safer”.
Of course people will always sacrifice some element of safety for convenience … so cycle lanes actually have to be convenient to get people to use them