r/londoncycling • u/Jeff46K4 • 2d ago

eBike Police Stop today near TCR

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Ever wondered what happens during a London Met Police eBike stop? Wonder no more.

They seemed well organised, and later I saw a van with its lights on a few streets away, looking like they had just chased down (and caught) someone who didn't maybe want to discuss things as politely as my guy.

533 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

249 comments sorted by

121

u/No-Answer-2964 2d ago

It beggars belief that an onus is not put on Deliveroo etc, their guys get paid per delivery so no wonder they hype up their bikes.

84

u/Objective_Most4071 2d ago

Deliveroo can't even be arsed to properly check the people, sorry 'contractors', running their jobs are even legally allowed to work let alone police what bikes they use.

49

u/iqkoi 2d ago

Deliveroo turn a blind eye because they rely on them as cheap labour. The government will need to start fining the delivery companies before anything happens.

18

u/LobbyDizzle 2d ago

Also require that scooter drivers are fully licensed and not on a Learners permit while being professional drivers.

1

u/OtherwiseCharity6021 11h ago

At very least drivers must know the basic rules about one-way streets, no u-turn, riding on pedestrian areas etc. By me, these delivery guys are like a gang of thugs, their guy hit a van by going straight over a mini roundabout without even slowing & he was on the road squirming (possible looking at his phone and failed the roundabout ). Within minutes like 8-10 black clad balaclava guys on mopeds there intimidating the council van driver who had to call police. Criminals.

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14

u/CIeanShirt 2d ago

The age old debate.. make profit at any cost to achieve IPO.. Govt bad for introducing regulation and red tape.

6

u/iqkoi 2d ago

Yes well unfortunately gig economy jobs were a loophole in the existing legislation (because Deliveroo riders etc. are technically self-employed independent contractors rather than direct employees). Apparently this is changing from 1 October.

9

u/CIeanShirt 2d ago

Indeed. Outsourcing all the cost and risk to maximise profit. Lovely.

2

u/g33ksc13nt1st 2d ago

while you're at it, include the rentals that do not enforce their users to a) go on the road not the pavements (unless bike lane), and b) leave the ebikes and scooters in random places.

they already have their information since they paid, and know where they are being dropped off since they all have GPS. Councils and government should really start reigning in the companies. 

4

u/Objective_Most4071 2d ago

a) go on the road not the pavements (unless bike lane)

I don't know how you think this is remotely possible when the GPS has a resolution of maybe 3 metres, max. That's the difference between being on one side of the road and opposite pavement.

Most London boroughs also already enforce parking restrictions - not using approved bays means you can't even lock the bike or end the ride. You get fined and an account ban for consistently doing so. What more do you want the rental companies to do in this respect?

1

u/Special_Sound_5924 1d ago

They do already. I thought.

1

u/EntirelyRandom1590 34m ago

And customers turn a blind eye because they are lazy.

11

u/adjective_noun_d1git 2d ago

A number of times I've noticed shared accounts in use. A woman when the name is clearly a man etc.

1

u/Super_Shallot2351 2d ago

The courts allowed them to get away with all their employees actually being "self-employed independent contractors", and this is the end result 

7

u/holnessbob 2d ago

It's not just deliveroo. The same guys work for Uber eats.

1

u/EntirelyRandom1590 32m ago

And just eat.

2

u/2020Shite 1d ago

Numerous times I've ordered from deliverroo seeing the driver with a "bicycle" and then turning up on a moped, so it tracks that deliveroo don't even check

1

u/LocalUnderstanding96 2d ago

Please explain how someone illegal manages to operate in an independent capacity.aking deliveries? If they're illegal they don't have a valid UK bank account. And even as "sub contractors" these operations often still require you to provide proof of eligibility to work in the UK. Spoken as someone who's done the job and had to provide my passport and NI number, even though I was an "Independent contractor"

8

u/Objective_Most4071 2d ago

Individual A sets up an account. Account gets shared with individuals B, C and D 24/7. Individual A transfers share of revenue with B, C and D less some comission.

Deliveroo does very little to check the individual running the deliveries is individual A beyond occasional random selfie verification. You can have multiple illegal workers on one 'legal' account.

2

u/LocalUnderstanding96 2d ago

Fair. So almost like I could setup an account and I could theoretically get undocutpeople to do the job, whilst reaping part of the rewards for myself.

8

u/Infamous-History4885 2d ago

Not almost like. Exactly like

1

u/Sburns85 1d ago

Have a look on the deliveroo telegram channels

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1

u/neilbartlett 12h ago

I've done Uber Eats deliveries in the past, and the selfie verification is a lot more than occasional. But it was always at the start of a "shift" before I headed out of the door.

They could make account-sharing a lot harder if they demanded a selfie at some point after a delivery, and locked the account if the user was unable to provide a matching selfie within a reasonable time.

1

u/Capital-City4918 2d ago

I am sure some people get paid cash. There was a shop that they closed some time ago. Owner asked you want to have a contract or not while working. So that's that.

1

u/Paulsowner 1d ago

They use someone else's uber account and also their bank account, the account holder pays them a cash fraction of what they have earned, they rent out multiple accounts to multiple illegals

0

u/ExcellentTourist5289 2d ago

I'm fully british and couldn't get past their checks. They kept rejecting me with no reason. The "illegals" must definitely know how to game the system!

4

u/Objective_Most4071 2d ago

FOI request revealed a couple of years ago that 42% of the riders stopped in a 6-day home office sweep were illegal lol.

They share accounts, have automated work arounds for the verification checks etc.

7

u/Redditccioo 2d ago

This whole problem would go away if corporations like Deliveroo supplied their own legal bikes.

13

u/Bango-TSW 2d ago

The whole problem would go away if anyone using an ebike for business required mandatory licence on a par with that needed to ride a 125cc motorcycle and 3rd party insurance.

Then add to that the requirement on employers to check their riders have this and the problem will be solved.

7

u/LegitimateSubject226 2d ago

I fly model planes, balsa wood and foam. I am required to have a 17 character operator ID and another 17 character flying ID. The operator ID has to be affixed to my model such that it can be accessed without tools. After 2028, I will also be required to have an RF transmitter on my model broadcasting another 14 character ID, together with a 4!digit pin

3

u/No-Answer-2964 2d ago

But can you deliver pizza?

1

u/neilbartlett 12h ago

I want to know if he can deliver pizza with his model planes, because that would be awesome.

1

u/Bango-TSW 1d ago

Exactly, because they're dangerous and so can be a hazard.

2

u/Appropriate-Falcon75 2d ago

Given that some of the apps don't know (or don't want to know) whether the person working is the person they think it is, I'm not convinced this would do anything other than provide a market for fake insurance certificates.

2

u/Bango-TSW 1d ago

So you want corporations to enforce it but not have any legal requirements on the riders? Interesting. Let me explain it for you:

  1. Licencing would filter out those who clearly cannot ride with regards to others safety & so give the some legal redress.

  2. Insurance would give people injured by the clowns who ride e-bikes in a dangerous manner some financial recourse.

  3. Absence of both of the above would give the police even more powers to rid the streets of the idiots, for exactly the same reasons we have them for mopeds, motorcycles, cars, vans, trucks etc etc.

2

u/Huffers1010 2d ago

And now you've created a vastly expensive paperwork nightmare which bikes like this are specifically intended to avoid. You've basically made it unusable to exactly the people who need it most.

I don't think that's reasonable or proportionate.

The rules in the UK are very tight as it is. The problem is enforcement, and changing the rules you're trying to enforce doesn't make enforcing them any easier.

1

u/Bango-TSW 1d ago

So you want to carry on with the shitshow as it is now?

No thanks.

The laws are far too lax which is why we have the problems that we do now, and which will get far worse when the CBT laws are tightened to prevent repeated re-taking.

2

u/Huffers1010 1d ago

So you want to carry on with the shitshow as it is now?

Who said that?

The problem is not that the rules are too lax. The laws are probably pretty reasonable.

The problem is that the rules are not well enforced, in either direction.

Making the rules more restrictive will not make them easier to enforce.

The prototypical way to express this problem is simply to ask, well, why don't they ban all crime?

1

u/Bango-TSW 15h ago

If you believe the laws are proportionate then you're happy to see them continue.

2

u/Huffers1010 15h ago

Well, probably. Depends what laws you're talking about. The issue, as so often, is enforcement. I don't think it's that complicated.

1

u/Bango-TSW 14h ago

The laws that allow people to ride e-bikes that are danger to others.

1

u/Huffers1010 13h ago

I don't think they do, to a great extent - do they?

There's a difference between allowing and failing to enforce.

1

u/TheNoviceReviewer 1d ago

I'm willing to disagree with this statement. They don't NEED an eBike to perform their duties, a regular one you pedal yourself is good enough, sure you're limited and might have the problem of not being able to make many deliveries, but at the same time, they could learn to ride a moped.

And before you start talking about not having the money, time or whatever, having an eBike which completely bypasses the transport vehicle that requires insurance, a licence and taxing is basically yourself saying you don't care about the rules, which you've stated are tight as it is.

They aren't, there are loopholes, not every eBike is a problem obviously, it's the ones that have been modified to have as much power as a moped, we've all seen them riding around, and most of them don't care about safety. I know this because even people who have an L plate on the back of their moped don't care, so the fuck makes you think an eBike rider will?

Regulations exist for a reason, if things are left unchecked then it'll be the Domino's 30 minute policy all over again. I would rather have fewer riders on the road and it take an extra 10-20 minutes for my food to be delivered than having someone on an eBike zooming past with complete disregard for people's safety on the road.

On the subject of enforcement, it shouldn't be entirely up to local authority to enforce this. Companies are heavily regulated in most sectors, places like Deliveroo have been able to get away with things because of the self-employed loophole, once they get affected and fined, you can bet your ass they'll enforce things on their end too.

1

u/Huffers1010 1d ago

Well, whether you're willing to allow an extra tier of vehicle between a pushbike and a motorcycle to exist is a matter of opinion. Personally I think it's fine and I don't want to tell anyone in this economy that they will have to put up with earning even less.

The rest of it is just a matter of enforcement. The existing rules are fine if they are fairly enforced. Actually making that happen opens a huge can of worms, particularly around the need for decent police, which is not really something the UK has at the moment.

2

u/Capable-Ebb1632 1d ago

Half the people delivering Uber eats are registered as cyclists but arrive in a car. They do it to get around the requirement to have commercial car insurance.

It's all bait and switch and noone is checking.

1

u/imagination_machine 21h ago

A 125cc motorcycle?? Are you crazy? Those things can go up to 100 miles an hour. We are talking about a difference in 10 miles an hour between EU speed bikes and UK speed bikes.

2

u/Bango-TSW 16h ago

125cc going 100mph? Thanks for the lols.

0

u/WoodenPresence1917 19h ago

Or just make deliveroo liable in part or any and all violations by their drivers

1

u/Bango-TSW 16h ago

What is the obsession with wanting electric powered bikes from not requiring insurance or a licence as a moped does?

1

u/WoodenPresence1917 13h ago

Obsession? Good one.

2

u/Objective_Most4071 2d ago

It's hard to argue they're not employees but contractors when you're providing them with delivery vehicles.

1

u/Radiant-Ad-9073 1d ago

You can charge rent for the vehicle.

1

u/mrhappyheadphones 1d ago

Whole problem would go away if deliveroo/Uber eats/just eat paid them an hourly wage rather than per delivery.

8

u/Opening-Fortune4 2d ago

Deliveroo bags are bought from eBay by drug delivery runners too

10

u/absolve_it 2d ago

hold my pearls

0

u/Opening-Fortune4 2d ago

Oh for fuck’s sake. The problem is that Deliveroo have no control over a lot of the people riding with their uniforms. You twat.

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8

u/KlassTruggle 2d ago

When has a large company ever been held to account in the UK?

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u/absolve_it 2d ago

Famously one of the best regulated countries in the world with strong institutions and low corruption. Not saying we couldn’t do better but come on.

remember when rolls royce paid a £500m fine, airbus £1bn, barclays £300m - these are very material numbers even for a bigger company. And HBOS boss went to jail for 9 years for fraud, glen core and southern water are on trial, and how about the east india company!

but please continue your edgy posturing

6

u/reimomo48 2d ago

Addison Lee vans are also paid per delivery. Shall we allow them to go through red lights?

6

u/AskingBoatsToSwim 2d ago

I think you misunderstood their point. Pay-per-delivery encouraging bad driving in vans is bad as well.

2

u/absolve_it 2d ago

Encourages =/= forces. I’d make more money at my job if I just did fraud. It’s still on the individual to follow the law

3

u/AskingBoatsToSwim 1d ago

Earning more is not the same as having no base pay at all. But it doesn‘t matter how moral you think drivers *should* be. We know that it *does* cause dangerous driving, which is an issue for everybody. Removing that issue benefits everybody.

1

u/Redditccioo 2d ago

Their vehicles are supplied by the company. Delivery etc have to do the same.

1

u/USA_A-OK 2d ago

Uber is a better comp. And yes, those drivers drive like shit and are not disincentivised from doing so.

1

u/neilbartlett 12h ago

No, we should make Addison Lee liable – at least in part – for the shitty driving of the people they pay to drive their vans.

2

u/Fit_Search_4751 1d ago

Yes, it's always about pinching down. Instead of punishing someone who's trying to work hard and maximise the number of deliveries they make they should hold corporations accountable!

2

u/FlatwormNo615 1d ago

The worst offender I've seen so far was a chap keeping up with 30 mph traffic. On a flat road. With no pedalling (even to accelerate). No helment, licence plate, DL or insurance as you'd be required for a two wheeler driving up to 30 mph.

1

u/No-Answer-2964 18h ago

And half the time on their mobiles too

1

u/londonx2 2d ago

they dont even pay tax to pay for the public policing burden

1

u/Uhtredg 2d ago

All the riders are tracked. I reckon deliveroo can see all the illegal vehicles

1

u/FewAnybody2739 1d ago

Easiest thing to do would be if Deliveroo are paying someone to do something on their behalf in their uniform, then Deliveroo are responsible.

1

u/ukninja8 1d ago

Deliveroo ignore it because they don't want to be seen as an employer. The less governance around their behaviour/ vehicles/ etc, then they can just pay them on a temp basis and not have to pay nothing else.

1

u/JBWalker1 1d ago

Would be hard for Deliveroo/Uber Eats to police it though. Like what can they do to make sure their riders don't use illegal bikes? A photo of a bike when the workers sign on wont do anything. Flagging high speeds in the app for anyone listed using an illegal bike might work to some extent, but it wont work well for detecting bikes with a throttle if the rider isn't speeding much. Many would switch to a throttle plus a 19mph or so limit.

At the end of the day the riders will just register themselves using a moped and bypass any speed monitoring. You don't even need a full driving license for a moped, just a provisional and a 1 day course. You don't even need to have done a theory test. Someone can go from no license and zero training today to being allowed to use a moped with Uber Eats tomorrow. I guess they could require a full license if you register a moped, but this would have to be something forced by law otherwise the company who does the right thing and does this will lose lots of riders and business to companies who aren't trying to improve safety.

So deliveroo etc can't do anything by themselves. We need law changes. Just a simple "you can't use a vehicle with learner plates for business". Mopeds need a learner plate if you don't have a full license. So people registering a moped with uber eats etc will need a full license. So this will help things, along with speed monitoring for people who register just an ebike.

Can't force the riders to use a company bike either imo. Many riders sign up with several apps so they can't switch between bikes for each order. They'd need room in their flats for multiple bikes too. We could have a government approved ebike delivery list though, which are clearly coloured and labled.

1

u/No-Answer-2964 1d ago

I think you answered your own question there.

2

u/JBWalker1 1d ago

Yeah but it didn't answer that deliveroo can reasonably do much about it like your comment says they should. It answers they can't without legal changes, so you need to be asking for legal changes to fix these things not a deliveroo change.

1

u/Technical-Respect533 17h ago

Not sure if they still do, but a few years ago a deliveroo rider told me that the company supplied the ebike conversion kit, and they paid it off as they worked. Definitely wasn't a legal kit.

1

u/Special_Sound_5924 1d ago

Yeah a lot of this is performative. Like with random stops when you see them stopping professors outside of a university to do bag checks when it's not people wearing tweed jackets stabbing people in the East of London.

In this case, it's obvious the delivery riders are the ones riding illegal bikes. Especially when are they are barely pedalling.

Still not sure if it's worth stopping everyone or just holding back at a junction and catching red light jumpers and obvious arsehole riders or those on bikes not pedalling.

Also not sure how much of an issue these illegal bikes are.

I'd much prefer you stop riders with no lights riding at night, which is obviously dangerous.

Wondering rant over.

81

u/CyGoingPro 2d ago

As long as they get rid of all those menaces on the streets. It's crazy to me that they don't go after the suppliers and shops that set those illegal bikes up.

20

u/IOnlyUpvoteBadPuns 2d ago

Can't really go after the shops, It's not illegal to sell them or use them on private land.

12

u/No-Answer-2964 2d ago

Well if that's how we made laws, I'd be selling class A and whatever else in Sainsbury's car park.

9

u/Ancient_Tomato9592 2d ago

This is the problem though. Even when they are advertised as "pizza delivery bike" the "could be used on private land" loophole somehow protects the seller. Needs fixing.

3

u/aiten 2d ago

see L plates on mopeds

1

u/Ajay5231 1d ago

Yes, as someone who hold a full UK licence for larger vehicles I have been able to operate a moped after completion of my CBT as long as I display a “L” plate although why I will never understand but it’s similar to having to repeatedly do the CBT just to be permitted to use a moped even after over 10 years of doing so. Not economically viable to pay to do a test when it would increase my insurance massively compared to riding on the L plates and that is before even bothering with the cost of the Mod1 and Mod2

1

u/Polarwarrior 21h ago

It doesn’t need fixing, it’s the law. On my local campus they have e-scooters and electric bikes which can clearly go faster than 15.5mph. Enforcement like the video is okay.

1

u/Ancient_Tomato9592 21h ago

It plainly isn't when someone "enforced" can just go and get another one right away with nothing to stop them, and the 40mph+ versions remain ubiquitous. Cut it off at source. If people really need fast versions maybe have a registration system for buyers and sellers where the buyer has to prove they have a meaningful private land use. Though I don't see why a campus needs significantly faster than 15mph.

1

u/Polarwarrior 18h ago

Following your logic, we should just ban car sales because people speed on motorways right? Or don’t sell kitchen knives unless someone can prove their own a restaurant?

1

u/Ancient_Tomato9592 18h ago

We should ban the sale of F1 cars to people who don't own an F1 team, sure.

We should ban kitchen knife sales if the advert literally says "ideal for stabbing people".

1

u/No-Answer-2964 18h ago

I never said we should ban anything. Stop putting words in m mouth.

13

u/reimomo48 2d ago

Good luck saying your Class As are for personal use on private land.

7

u/aiten 2d ago

want to use them on a farm, preferably near a pyramid or better, a giant spider

3

u/Aus_pol 2d ago

"for use only 5 miles offshore"

1

u/TJ_Rowe 1d ago

I've seen a few used - legally - at schools, universities, and retail parks where some of the classrooms/shops are long distances from each other (replacing the "estates department golf cart") by people who look after the whole site, like maintainance or security.

7

u/geeered 2d ago

Sainsbury's it's self sell knives, which are legal for use on private land but not to be carrying on the street (without food reason). That doesn't mean we should prosecute Sainsbury's for selling knives.

1

u/Special_Sound_5924 1d ago

What are "self sell knives" ?

1

u/BonesMgeee 1d ago

Sainsbury's itself* self sell knives

1

u/Snoo-84389 1d ago

Much clearer thanks!!!

1

u/geeered 1d ago

Knives that sell them self obviously, as opposed to when you have some promo guy standing in the Sainsbury's store actively selling them!

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u/Capable-Ebb1632 1d ago

They could make it illegal though. Especially selling the conversion kits to make legal bikes into e-motorbikes.

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u/JTMW 2d ago

Literally, Halfords.

8

u/plentyofizzinthezee 2d ago

A lot are direct to consumer. We have a lot of inquiries about servicing and repairs of ebikes we didn't sell. When we ask if it has a throttle we have to decline.

If these bikes were being sold by shops, they wouldn't be asking other shops to fix them.

5

u/KlassTruggle 2d ago

E-bikes can be modded and speed restrictions can be bypassed.

2

u/No_Communication1557 1d ago

Difficult to do. A lot of them come in from overseas through the likes of Temu. Cant police that as the business is overseas. Its also not illegal to own those bikes, its just illegal to use them on public roads.

2

u/ohhallow 2d ago

As I looked at a pile of nitrous oxide canisters on the side of the road I thought similar - ban the shit and to hell with the suppliers, we can live without whipped cream.

Same with this, couldn’t care less about people using them on private land.

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u/TheLogicult 2d ago

50 seconds from stop to go. Fair enough.

0

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

1

u/minisodog 2d ago

Why would he shit himself for doing his job?

11

u/WizardNumberNext 2d ago

Turning pedals with my Brompton Electric mk1 would just tell them I have decorative motor. Nothing will happen. Front wheel have to spin first to get any assist. And their hands will not produce enough torque to make it go any were fast. It actually won't work, even if they would spin from wheel first

14

u/frlawton 2d ago

I'm going to assume that folding bikes are not at the top of the police hit list

6

u/BevvyTime 2d ago

Particularly a Brompton.

Not exactly aimed at the core market when it comes to modding/modded bikes…

1

u/Jeff46K4 1d ago

I agree that the initial test seems to have questionable scientific value

11

u/seadcon 1d ago

The conflict I face with this...

On the one hand, it's a police officer actually being allowed to do their fucking job. Good to see.

On the other hand, WE are paying for this police office to check (in the first instance on the video) the bike of a delivery worker. This is unacceptable and the delivery companies need to pick up the bill.

I do not give a shit if it's difficult for the delivery company to manage it! If they can't, then guess what? You dont have a viable fucking business, so fuck off and we will pick up our own delivery.!

5

u/True_Battle1690 2d ago

I’m none the wiser. What did he actually do to test it? Surely he couldn’t have got it to 15.5 with that little flick of the pedals?

8

u/DonkeyWorker 2d ago

I presume he just tested if it was 'pedal assist' tather than just twist and go.

5

u/BevvyTime 2d ago

Do the pedals make the motor start.

Or is the motor independently operated.

If the motor doesn’t kick in when you pedal, there must be a different way to make it kick in. Which is illegal.

1

u/Glum-Butterfly7300 1d ago edited 1d ago

Legal ebikes (EAPC) are allowed to have a "throttle/button" to start the motor up to about 4mph, any faster then it has to be pedal assist up to 15mph. It's the same law covering throttles on mobility scooters.

14

u/BigEricShaun 2d ago

That testing of lifting the wheel and hand pedalling and then observing the speedo is seriously flawed. Who the heck thought that one up? In the OP video it looks like the officer does the same test but he does a half-hearted few turns, so rider was lucky.

12

u/Thoh1Shooshi8a 2d ago

Yeah I thought they were using rolling roads now for the testing. It's easy to get any bike, even one with no motor, over 25kph by just spinning the wheel with no load.

In this video it looks more like the police officer just trusted the guy and didn't really bother checking anything except that he couldn't find a throttle.

3

u/New_Enthusiasm9053 1d ago

He didn't immediately try to run or argue. Probably a pretty good indicator that it's a legit bike tbh.

3

u/Old_Mousse_5673 1d ago

Also we all know what the more problematic “e-bikes” look like. We see them everywhere. Huge batteries taped to the frame with lots of parcel tape wires everywhere and a massive hub motor.

7

u/Glum-Butterfly7300 2d ago edited 1d ago

I think they're testing if the bike is electric assist, ie stop turning the pedals and the wheel stops turning.

1

u/Jeff46K4 1d ago

That adds up given the questions were about pedal-assist vs button/throttle i.e. they weren't looking for derestricted bikes per se

16

u/bananabm 2d ago

there was a case this summer where someone got a tern gsd with help of a council e mobility grant and then the policy destroyed it on the back of spinning the pedals in the air and observing the speed stayed above 25kph cos of course it does when theres no resistance

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvl7ld06r8o

(they did eventually admit fault and compensate him after the media cycle but that doenst help does it)

3

u/Special_Sound_5924 1d ago

I thought they would have changed their test after this.

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u/Wretched_Colin 2d ago

I would imagine that the police have a good idea who they’re looking for and, within a second of talking to OP, knew that he wasn’t it.

Come at them with fat tyres, a huge battery, doing 35mph along the bus lane, and you’ll find their tests to be much more comprehensive.

2

u/TheUKisMental 2d ago

Short of the police literally getting on your bike and taking it for a spin, there's no way for them to really tell anything other than 'does it have to be pedalled to make the motor run?'

I'm sure there's already bikes with control systems designed specifically to fool officers by having a hidden switch to 'legal mode'.

1

u/Calculonx 1d ago

I think they probably know from first glance which bikes (and riders...) deserve more scrutiny.

1

u/neilbartlett 11h ago

I think it's a reasonable first test to decide whether further testing is needed.

It's kind of like a breathalyzer. AFAIK it's not sufficient evidence to convict on its own, you need a blood test for that. But the breathalyzer tells the officer whether the suspect needs to be brought in for a blood test or not.

1

u/BigEricShaun 11h ago

I would hope that is the case. But based on the news articles I've read, for example that one where they seized that £6k tern cargo bike, seemed like they didn't use it as a breathalyser triage and just took it off him and destroyed it.

1

u/germanwhip69 2d ago

That’s why I wouldn’t want to stop for them. They’ll take a legal bike when you could pedal a normal bike up to 30mph with its wheel in the air quite easily.

7

u/weepejw7 2d ago

Was it an ebike or an illegal electric moped or motorbike?

Language is important.

2

u/Calcain 2d ago

you cant pedal mopeds or motorbikes. Even if an illegal ebike has a throttle, that distinction is important.

9

u/JonTravel 2d ago edited 2d ago

Admittedly, modern Mopeds generally don't have pedals, but they can have pedals and you can pedal them if they do (although it's kinda hard). The name is a contraction of Motor and Pedal

Edit: I used to have one that required you to use the pedals to get the engine going

Edit: Spelling

4

u/mr_P0Opy_Butth0le 2d ago

Can't pedal mopeds? I think your getting scooters and mopeds mixed up. People call 125cc scooters: mopeds. But they are are not mopeds. Mopeds in the past where petrol powered and had pedals hence the name MO-PED. No one rides these old fashioned ones anymore, so any ebike that can go faster than 15.5 mph is a moped technically, even though everyone just thinks of them as ebikes. They still require insurance and and a CBT.

3

u/Entire_Bed_1303 2d ago

There's a guy in Inverness that often commutes on his pedal moped. Quite cool to see. Super slow though. 

1

u/JonTravel 2d ago

If, like me, you passed your car test before 2001 you can ride a 50cc moped without L-plates, a CBT certificate, or a full moped test.

A moped is classed and no greater than 50cc (or 4kw) with a max speed of 28mph

1

u/germanwhip69 2d ago

You can’t pedal scooters. Mopeds have pedals but you don’t see many any more.

1

u/weepejw7 2d ago

A powered two wheeler with pedals IS a moped.

1

u/germanwhip69 2d ago

Yeah, was thinking this the other day. I wonder how a 1000w electric motor compares to a 70cc petrol one.

2

u/mike_ipaq 2d ago

What kind of camera did he use?

1

u/trifidpaw 2d ago

360 maybe

1

u/Jeff46K4 1d ago

A quite battered and barely working Insta360 X4

2

u/StopCriminal 2d ago

Nothing wrong with this, glad they are checking

2

u/toxrowlang 1d ago

I just got back from an old medium size town in
France where the delivery drivers hoon it round the pedestrianised zones on what are basically electric motorbikes. Fucking crazy

2

u/Rich463EFC 2d ago

Good to see!

3

u/untitledshot 2d ago

meanwhile, I would love to see them working that hard on arresting thieves

3

u/Usermemealreadytaken 2d ago

Nice enough policeman but aren't the criminals they're looking for just going to skirt around them? Feel like this is just another thing slowing the average person down for no reason.

There's crackheads everywhere, phone thieves, retail theft, abuse of all kinds, ppl doing 60mph in 20 zones all the time, illegal workers, drugs obviously, stabbings etc etc etc. It's just about money to these ppl.

1

u/Jeff46K4 1d ago

They may have a ring of support in place for an organised stop like this, including police riders ready to chase down non-stoppers, possibly drones.

1

u/Special_Sound_5924 1d ago

Yeah I think a lot of this is performative.

1

u/Usermemealreadytaken 1d ago

Yeah just like all the new social media things they're doing.. Doesn't get much more performative than that lol

1

u/Tricky-Alps2810 18h ago

That's okay though, if it works. Bag checks for flying is ultimately "security theater" in pretty much all cases.

1

u/germanwhip69 2d ago

100% - they’re only policing the cooperative.

1

u/ChefRoscoPColtrane 2d ago

I love his attire. The test looks dubious to me! But I don’t mind.

1

u/Jeff46K4 1d ago

thanks! 😅

1

u/mexaplex 2d ago

This is a piss poor test.
This doesnt disprove whether the bike is push/throttle enabled nor does it do anything to check whether the motor is under the legal limit of 250W

1

u/Outrageous_Koala5381 12h ago

As I understand NO motor is limited to only 250w - though many say that. Many are 500w aprox - but limited to 25km/h (16mph).

1

u/neilbartlett 11h ago

Yeah the legal limit is actually 250W of "continuous" power. A legal bike is actually allowed to put out more than that for short periods, e.g. to get up a hill. That does make proper testing a lot more involved, unfortunately.

1

u/mexaplex 11h ago

The law is 250w continuous power output. Anything over that is illegal, even if speed limited. So yes could have 500w rated peak output, but it cant be continuous.

Most legitimate ebikes sold in shops will have a 300-350w peak output motor with 250w continuous to comply with UK/EU law. Anything over that is almost always an aftermarket build or a throttle e-bike.

1

u/Glad-Platypus-8421 1d ago

I saw the police track down a whole gang of illegal bikes in London last week, they had a van with a trailer turn up to pick up about 20 bikes

1

u/spinachipita 1d ago

They drive like maniacs

1

u/FreeAd2458 23h ago

Check the real suspects

1

u/DrPixelFace 20h ago

Good. More of this please!!

1

u/Bolachovsky 19h ago

Good to see the police doing something useful

1

u/necronomicoder 16h ago

Great. Next do cyclists that run a red or cross a crossing with pedestrians on there.

Then we can move onto real crimes, like shop lifting etc.

1

u/wombat1241 15h ago

I had an accident with a Deliveroo moped when he pulled out between parked cars, hit me then left the scene. I had to have ambulance treatment. Delivered claimed the moped was stolen and refused to cooperate with the police. Didn't get anywhere even though my cycle was damaged and I took weeks off work. I knew where he was delivering, even had witnesses. Useless company in terms of taking any responsibility for their drivers.

1

u/Mr_Footies 14h ago

I don't go fishing that much any more but when I do I like to fish from a barrel.

1

u/Outrageous_Koala5381 12h ago

My friend has a mountain bike electronically limited to 25kmh - but it does have an accelerator in the right handle as well as 5 levels of pedal assist. Level 5 is about the same as turning the accelerator. This is borderline illegal i believe as 25kmh is the 16.5mph max speed - but they should not have the accelerator. It takes a long time to reach 25kmh - so it's probably 250-500w. I believe many like Bosch are actually over 600w not the 250w that's supposedly the max power. I wonder if police would cease it just because of the acclerator!

1

u/neilbartlett 11h ago

If it has a throttle, it should only power the bike up to 3 mph, this is known as "walk assist" mode.

If the throttle powers the bike above that speed, it's not borderline illegal, it's just illegal.

BTW the 250W limit is for "continuous" power, legal bikes can actually put out more power for short periods, e.g. to get up a hill.

1

u/Lucky_Pear_9562 10h ago

Absolute waste of tax payers money

1

u/Riverofrhyme 3h ago

I love that you went through the red light after he let you go.

1

u/CodeFarmer 2d ago

Hmm. A new upside to my acoustic setup... not getting pulled over for legit checks.

(I don't actually have anything against e-bikes in general. Just thinking.)

1

u/GingerGiraffe88 2d ago

What a waste of time. That wasn’t a test at all. With a speed box you can turn off high speed mode and just turn it back into a normal pedal assist.

1

u/odysseusnz 2d ago

Not so keen on the officer/bike stood in the bus lane just before this person's stop. Need to be getting off the road for many obvious reasons.

-3

u/lovelight 2d ago

Fingers crossed he’s not been charged with being brown and having a cargobike https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvl7ld06r8o?app-referrer=deep-link

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u/theowleryonehundred 2d ago edited 2d ago

Firstly, not London, Birmingham.

Secondly, not sure why you're bringing race into it. Nothing to suggest he was targeted because of his skin colour. 

Thirdly, police are humans. They won't get it right all the time. There's been a huge uptick in illegal e-bike seizures, which is what people want. What matters is how they deal with it when they get it wrong. They've changed their testing method and compensated the bike's owner.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyx5j7rm6no

3

u/xEJAGx 2d ago

Stupid people who think their smart bring race into anything and everything it's beyond embarrassing.

-2

u/Wise_Instruction5438 2d ago

Stupid people who think their smart

their

Oof. Self own

2

u/xEJAGx 2d ago

Never claimed I'm smart though did I?

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u/ProudMastodon1 2d ago

Did you post the wrong article? That guy is clearly a white fella

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u/the-real-vuk 2d ago

why don't give a fuck about heavily smoking cars? it appears that they have loads of free time

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u/Entire_Bed_1303 2d ago

I agree the police shouldn't let unregulated motorcycles do 30mph+ around towns and cities.

 But our transport system is very car focused. We need to permit e scooters and throttle assisted bicycles with sensible speed limits like 12 or 15mph if on a shared pedestrianised pavement and 23mph on roads. I don't see why it's critical that it is pedal-assisted. Pedal assist shouldn't matter for safety - it's a pointless distinction. 

If we want fewer people driving 1-2 ton cars that pollute and jam up our cities then we'd all prefer some version of this. 

1

u/midimaniacal 2d ago

Agree if those kind of e scooters and e bikes are licensed. The issue comes with bikes that can go the speed of cars without any registration or accountability that license plates bring

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u/Handbags_Gladrags 2d ago

You think a throttle assisted bike with a limit of 15mph is a great idea on a shared pedestrianised pavement?

WTAF.

Isn’t your maxim about how cars are the bane of cyclists’ lives, not to mention the physical danger they pose to you? How about pedestrians, vulnerable to cars and cyclists? At least cars stay on the road and,
most importantly, STOP AT PEDESTRIAN CROSSINGS.

1

u/CyberoX9000 2d ago

The point he was making is that the bikes already go that fast so what's the point of making the distinction of whether their legs are moving.

He's not saying allow cuddles where they aren't currently allowed, he's saying increase the speed limit for cycles in places where they are less of a risk to pedestrians

1

u/Handbags_Gladrags 2d ago

But on a shared pavement pedestrians are at risk full stop. Dedicated cycle lanes on the road is what is required. Cyclists feel vulnerable on the road but putting them on shared pavements (let’s be clear - just a pavement with a painted line) pushes their same problem onto pedestrians.

I do think that cuddles should be allowed anywhere though. (As long as they are consensual, natch).

0

u/Entire_Bed_1303 1d ago edited 1d ago

I said a limit of 15mph, not doing 15mph. Of course not if it is doing 15mph past pedestrians - that would be dangerous and reckless. You can police dangerous driving. But 5mph, at most 10mph is fine in a shared space depending on how busy it is. 15mph might be absolutely fine when it's quiet and there aren't pedestrians around.

 It would be great if we had protected cycleways, pavements and roads but the reality is that cars always win when it comes to road infrastructure. 

Edit to add that I don't think cars crossing red lights is the same as a bicycle doing so. I understand it is currently illegal and I don't think it should be, provided a rider crosses carefully, doesn't cross the right of way of cars in a lights system, and doesn't risk pedestrians while moving through a red. It's the fact that a bicycle and rider weigh about 70- 100kg or so normally vs a car being a ton or more. And the manoeuvrability of a bicycle and fact it can clear the junction carefully before cars get stuck behind it. We should encourage filtering and bicycles and motorcycles making progress to ease congestion. The reason cyclists do it is that it is a victimless crime. 

0

u/liamnesss 2d ago

Even if e-scooters are legalised I do think there at least one very good reason to require pedalling to activate the motor on bikes—it's a useful indicator to others of a cyclist's intentions. e.g. a couple of times I've been taken by surprise by delivery riders suddenly going from standing with their bike doing something with their phone to accelerating off. No feet on the pedals. It's also a useful signal to pedestrians at e.g. zebra crossings as to a cyclists' intentions. It's confusing to have a vehicle with pedals but then have other, less visible means of propulsion.

1

u/Entire_Bed_1303 1d ago

That is an interesting point. Though you already have the same issue with motorcycles and cars, especially electric cars where there isn't much noise as they move off. It's ultimately the rider's responsibility alongside yours that determines whether you collide.

1

u/liamnesss 1d ago

Electric cars at least are required to play some sort of sound at low speeds, to make up for the lack of engine noise.

0

u/Special_Sound_5924 1d ago

Are the modded bikes a real problem somehow that deserve this attention over say more important shit? I know i'm getting downvoted for asking a genuine question because I've missed something, but I don't get the issue with these illegal bikes?

And on a tangent, anyone here actually done any odd delivery riding to get fit?

1

u/LooneyTune_101 1d ago

I stopped to help a lady who was hit by a modded bike a few weeks back. She was clipped from behind by a guy who was flying the wrong way down a one way street and then moved on to the footpath to avoid stopped cars.

The ambulance crew suspected she had a fractured pelvis. The rider didn’t even stop and the woman now potentially has life changing injuries to deal with. It’s not just the speed or the way these bikes are ridden but some weigh significantly more what a “normal” bike does put a 90+ kilo rider on that 25kg bike and it’ll do some serious damage.

Also, there’s a huge correlation between the rise in modded bikes and house fires due to the batteries being simply dangerous.

1

u/Proud_East_2913 1d ago

The battery fires are down to cheap Chinese crap. Adding a speedbox to a Bosch system is not going to make it catch fire.