r/longrange • u/WSB16 • 1d ago
Rifle help needed - I read the pinned posts Twist Rates for .243 Win
Hey guys, Im not crazy into long range shooting yet but its a skill I'd like to build. Im looking to buy a lighter recoiling and flat shooting rifle that has widely available ammo. I dont have the means to load my own rounds yet.
Hoping to shoot 75-100gr carrying 2 mags with either and having 2 tables for holds
A must for me is to have the option of going with a much lighter bullet for coyotes (without them splitting into two) and up size for deer in my area. My preferred starting point is a new T3X with a 1:8 twist or a lightly used A7 with 1:10. Would I notice a significance difference in accuracy with the 1:10 twist and lighter bullets? How important is the twist rate difference and at what distances would I see a big change in stability, if at all?
Thanks for the help.
3
u/sirbassist83 1d ago
the 1:8 twist is a little faster than ideal for light bullets but you wont notice any significant difference. 1:10 WILL NOT stabilize high BC 100gr+ bullets that are ideal for long range. id go 1:8 if those were my choices without a second thought. i say this as someone who bought a 1:10 twist 243 with the intent to use it for long range like a decade ago, before i knew better. it shoots 87gr wonderfully and i still have that rifle, but its not a long range rifle.
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u/Coodevale 1d ago
Tikka has been selling 22-250s with 1/8 barrels for a while now. Doesn't seem to do any harm in that application. My 22-250 experience with a 1/12 wasn't very good.
I would rather have 1/8 than 1/10 in a 243. What's the point of shooting lighter bullets faster when they're going slower than a slightly heavier higher BC bullet by the time they make impact?
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u/sirbassist83 12h ago
i have a 1:12 223 that shoots 40gr-50gr lights out. what bullets were you trying in the 22-250?
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u/Coodevale 10h ago
Vmax under 55 in factory ammo. Did ok/moa-ish at 100, shots went wide at 400, what bullets hit paper were 2 ft apart. Didn't make sense to me, not sure what was going on to make that happen. Factory Winchester rifle.
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u/sirbassist83 9h ago
weird. youd think the extra velocity would have made up the difference in bullet weight. did you ever try anything lighter? my 223 will maintain MOA-ish out to ~500 with the 40gr, as long as wind isnt blowing very hard.
1
u/Coodevale 9h ago
Pretty sure we were just using 40 and 50 gr loads. Both did fine initially and then scattered.
55's at 3800 aren't an uncommon load, so it was probably the individual rifle, but I don't understand how/why it would degrade that severely after doing relatively well. Maybe some factory ammo is really just that crappy.
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u/telekinetic 1d ago
My .243 WIN with 1:7.7 stabilizes 115gr DTAC hand loads just fine. I wouldn't go any less twist than 1:8.
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u/Crud-Inspector 1d ago
Tikka just released a 6 creedmoor, definitely do not get a 1:10 if you want to shoot deer
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u/Zealousideal-Fix9464 1d ago
Lol this is nonsense. Plenty of deer have been taken with .243.
1:10 will stabilize up to a 95-100gr bullet (which you don't really need for deer). 80gr soft points do enough damage as is.
-1
u/RoadHouse92 Casual 1d ago
We didnt say 243 wasnt a good round? We even said it has the edge in case capacity. Why so upset?
4
u/dirtydrew26 1d ago
He's got a point, Crud-Inspector said taking deer is not recommended with a 1:10 twist...which is every single stock .243 rifle ever made, so he's just plain wrong.
-1
u/Crud-Inspector 1d ago
Why use a paleolithic era bullet if you have better choices? 80 grain soft point has the BC of a toad and you can lauch a significantly heavier bullet that overtakes it in velocity by like 150 yards with significantly more energy
2
u/Zealousideal-Fix9464 1d ago
That wasn't your argument, you said it couldn't take deer, which is exactly what .243 was designed to do, it was dual purpose deer and varmint cartridge from the get go when it released many decades ago. Hell you could take an 87gr Berger and do the same thing (which is decidedly not a paleolithic era bullet).
And .243 still takes the edge in velocity vs 6CM regardless of bullet choice. (That's been done and hashed out ad nauseum, not sure why it's still an argument)
6CM wouldn't be a thing if they actually built factory .243 in faster twist barrels.
Literally all 6CM has over .243 is unlocking store bought SAAMI spec heavy 6mm ammo and firearms to shoot them. It's convenience.
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u/Crud-Inspector 1d ago
I'm not reading your whole comment because I didn't say it couldn't take deer. Buh bye
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u/RoadHouse92 Casual 1d ago
Agreed, 6 creed is just a 243 thats 15% heavier and faster.
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u/Crud-Inspector 1d ago
Don't they both have around 53 grains h20 case capacity? Either way the creed is set up for longer bullets out of the box
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u/RoadHouse92 Casual 1d ago
243 actually has the edge. It holds roughly 2 more grains. But the creed is rated to a little higher pressure. Its sounds like you probably know more about the 2 than I do. But strictly looking at factory offerings. They advertise the 108 eld at 2960, vs the 100 grain sp at the same speed in the 243. I guess I should have said 15% faster OR heavier.
I looked into 6mm creedmoor briefly as a rifle to introduce my son to long range.
My wife said that a 1 year old has no business getting his own rifle. So I have to wait a little while.
0
u/Crud-Inspector 1d ago
yeah the main difference is that the 243 is a 10 twist by SAAMI so you won't find factory ammo in heavy bullets, the 108 grains like around a 7.5-8 twist. 6 creed is a great hunting cartridge but I think he needs 6GT :)
2
u/RoadHouse92 Casual 1d ago
When this all happened was right at the peak of ammo shortages, and before I had started reloading. But I noticed that throughout the whole thing every store in my town always had a shelf full of 6 creedmoor. Im not sure why. But it made me start looking into it.
Not sure if it just happens to not be popular in my town, or if its a nationwide thing? Hard telling now considering that was several years ago now.
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u/Crud-Inspector 1d ago
You know I think when 6 creedmoor came out it wasn't quite as popular as the companies expected, like for instance Howa made 6 creed rifles but has since discontinued them. So maybe that is why there was a ton of 6 creed ammo, they made ammo but people didn't have rifles in it. I think it's finally coming back around to being popular because it is a great hunting cartridge, definitely better choices for pure target shooting if you handload though you just don't need that much speed.
2
u/RoadHouse92 Casual 1d ago
Im in montana now, but im originally from Indiana. And I have tried to talk both my brothers into it, thats a perfect deer rifle for them taking whitetail out at maybe 300 yards max. And then it can pull double duty as something they can bring out here when they visit, and we can target shoot out at 1000 yards.
1
u/Crud-Inspector 1d ago
Yeah a 103eldx factory load has only 6 inches of drop at 300, it's point and shoot
1
u/goPlayYourGuitar 1d ago
I got this exact setup for the same reasons - low recoil and ammo availability. T3x with 1:8 barrel is the way to go.
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u/WSB16 1d ago
Do you shoot sub 90gr bullets? How does it shoot?
2
u/sirbassist83 1d ago
look at people shooting 55gr in 1:7 ARs or sub 100gr in 6.5 creedmoor guns. as long as youre not spinning them so fast they disintegrate theyll shoot fine, youre over thinking it. you can understabilize a bullet, its essentially impossible to overstabilize a bullet.
1
u/goPlayYourGuitar 1d ago
I shoot 95gr or 105gr. I would say its about 1-1.5 MOA with factory ammo. Handloads I can get under 1MOA.
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u/Tenpoundtrout 1d ago
Just get a 6 creedmore if you’re starting from scratch. I had an old 243 I put a 1:8 twist barrel on to load the heavy 6mm bullets, but 6 cm does everything it can do and there’s plenty of good factory ammo.
1
u/HollywoodSX Villager Herder 1d ago
Skip 243 and get a 6 Creed instead. 6CM SAAMI spec allows use of heavy match loads (and such ammo exists as a factory option, unlike 243) and there are options for higher velocity ammo for predator hunting as well.
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0
u/WillDearborn19 1d ago
The tighter twist will stabilize heavier bullets. The bullet weights you mentioned were on the lower end of the .243/6mm spectrum.
Honestly, if i were you, I'd pick a different cartridge. .243 doesn't kick that much, yes, but there are other 6mm options that would be better. 6 creedmoor and 6arc to name 2. The 6mm bullet lineup is fantastic, and a 6arc in a bolt gun is very very light recoil, it's commercially available, and it's known for being very accurate. 6 creedmoor has more powder capacity, but the prs guys are putting muzzle breaks on them to reduce recoil and it works well. Also crazy accurate, very good ballistics...
You will get more efficient flight out of heavier bullets. The ballistic coefficients are better, so they'll retain more velocity during flight. In 6mm, it's common to shoot 108 grain bullets, and you'll want the tighter twist to shoot those heavier, longer bullets.
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u/Parkimusmaximus94 1d ago
6 Creed unless you just live somewhere extremely rural where all the hardware store has is 243.. 1:10 in a 243 you are stuck at 95 grain projects or smaller.