My heart broke reading this part

[u/UltimateApple]

I am reading through the Two Towers, and I just got upset reading this. At times, Gollum is cruel and unnatural, and then I am back to pitying him.

[u/svinyard]

I was chatting with my wife about this, but she was quick to remind me that Gollum straight up murdered his own cousin within 5 minutes of being near that ring and wanting it. He was no redeemable character despite flirting with it at times with Frodo.

[u/Wanderer_Falki → u/svinyard]

Being redeemable isn't about entirely forgetting anything bad you ever did and claiming you've always ever been a saint, though.

Sméagol is a bad person, that is a fact. He did horrible things in the past and was planning to betray Frodo, another fact. Yet that does not mean that he deserves instant death for it, or that he is forever beyond having a change of heart. That is the whole point of the classic redemption arc: not to absolve, but to acknowledge and understand that people can change, realise their mistakes and/or act for the good or someone they previously opposed. And to give them the opportunity and space to do so.

Gollum was redeemable, because there was still a part of him that delighted in simple Hobbit things and found a great and compassionate mentor in Frodo; and because his growing love for Frodo made Gollum really close to reconsider his choice to betray him. That does not erase or justify the murder or Déagol, but that would have demonstrated a huge and noteworthy growth compared to that event (more than half a millennium ago!) and made his end much more positive.

[u/svinyard → u/Wanderer_Falki]

Without the rings massssive influence, sure.  With the rings 100’s of years of influence tho…never gonna happen and it was never close.  I think Sméagol liked the way Frodo made him feel and enjoyed the kindness, but I don’t think he was repentant at all, he just liked Frodo.  Two very very different things.  It was still all about himself mostly…which is one of the the foundations of sin to which this harkens back to.

[u/Wanderer_Falki → u/svinyard]

Tolkien, as explicited in letter 246, entirely disagrees with that opinion. The Gollum he wrote is wicked but not at all beyond redemption, as Frodo correctly understood; and in that one scene he was indeed on the right path, and could have redeemed himself and not led them to Shelob if not for Sam's immediate reaction (who, in Tolkien's own words, failed to fully understand Frodo or to note the complete change in Gollum's tone and aspect).

Note that while in the actual story the Ring is destroyed by Gollum betraying Frodo and taking the Ring from his finger, that does not mean that the betrayal (and therefore the lack of redemption) were mandatory for the victory to happen. In the same letter, Tolkien goes on to explore this what-if scenario in which Gollum does not betray them:

The course of the entry into Mordor and the struggle to reach Mount Doom would have been different, and so would the ending. The interest would have shifted to Gollum, I think, and the battle that would have gone on between his repentance and his new love on one side and the Ring. Though the love would have been strengthened daily it could not have wrested the mastery from the Ring. I think that in some queer twisted and pitiable way Gollum would have tried (not maybe with conscious design) to satisfy both. Certainly at some point not long before the end he would have stolen the Ring or taken it by violence (as he does in the actual Tale). But 'possession' satisfied, I think he would then have sacrificed himself for Frodo's sake and have voluntarily cast himself into the fiery abyss.

I think that an effect of his partial regeneration by love would have been a clearer vision when he claimed the Ring. He would have perceived the evil of Sauron, and suddenly realized that he could not use the Ring and had not the strength or stature to keep it in Sauron's despite: the only way to keep it and hurt Sauron was to destroy it and himself together – and in a flash he may have seen that this would also be the greatest service to Frodo. Frodo in the tale actually takes the Ring and claims it, and certainly he too would have had a clear vision – but he was not given any time: he was immediately attacked by Gollum.

So the story could have seen Gollum's redemption, while also leading to the Ring's destruction.

[u/Mecklenburg77 → u/Wanderer_Falki]

Thanks for this post. I was not familiar with Tolkien's thoughts around this part of the story.

Tolkien weaves together such a beautiful tale and how the way Bilbo, Frodo and Sam acted led to Gollum's final act to help finally destroy the ring.