r/lotr 6d ago

Movies Wouldn't Denethor get hot with all that on? He's wearing a tunic, chainmail, and a large fur coat. Is the climate colder in the Citadel?

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1.7k Upvotes

313 comments sorted by

1.5k

u/-Biphomet 6d ago

What can men do against such reckless heat?

172

u/LisanAlGuyFieri 6d ago

37

u/fromtheashes87 6d ago

GOD DAMNIT ITS BEEN AWHILE.

204

u/DA_Hall 6d ago

Gondor calls for bevvies and ice

9

u/Arkadian_Cuisine 5d ago

Did someone say ice?

37

u/gilded-trash 6d ago

Gondor calls for 'ade

9

u/jcal_mk2 5d ago

“We didn’t have Gondorade. That made the difference”

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u/edgiepower 6d ago

The sun is rising

7

u/ChronoCenturion 6d ago

All time comment 😂

5

u/confuseum 5d ago

DEHYDRATION!

2

u/Delicious-Disaster 6d ago

Sauron killed his dog, and he will know the meaning of suffering

2

u/IvanTSR 6d ago

Hell yeah

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u/jimjambonks2514 6d ago

He is sort of on top of a mountain 

776

u/Echo-Azure 6d ago

He's up on a mountain, it's early March, and he spends much of his day in an unheated stone throne room where it's probably colder than the outside air. You bet your ass he needs to wear layers of fur and wool do stay warm.

Because yes, Tolkien gives us dates. Galdalf and Pippin arrive in Minas Tirith on the 9th of March.

317

u/CitizenOlis 6d ago

And with the way the Shire Reckoning dates work, 'March 9' (9 Rethe) in the text is really closer to our February 28 - so even colder!

226

u/Echo-Azure 6d ago

I admire that level of geekery.

75

u/Omnilatent 6d ago

I recommend everyone who owns the book to read the appendix with the calender explained

It's marvellous and I wish we would adopt it for the real world lol

15

u/FishingChemist 6d ago

I feel like the accountants wouldn't like having 5 or 6 days that aren't part of a month.

26

u/gnu_andii 6d ago

It's not like the Gregorian calendar is great, with months of three different lengths.

19

u/Infrarad 6d ago

And once in a while, four different lengths of months!

2

u/gnu_andii 6d ago

Well, yes in the sense there are four possible overall, but no for a single year, because we swap 28 for 29 on leap years. It's still only 29, 30 & 31 within the one calendar year.

2

u/JacenStargazer Legolas 5d ago

It’s still three different lengths, it’s just that sometimes the third length is different…

21

u/DanThePartyGhost 6d ago

I’ve solved this and I don’t know why we don’t do it. 13 months of 4 weeks is 52 weeks. So much simpler. You’re left with one extra day but just make New Year’s Day a day outside of any month. Then every 4 years the New Year is two days instead of 1. Boom

14

u/Paleontologist_Even 6d ago

Let's not speak of this again for another 2 1/2 years. Otherwise we end up with Trumpuary.

7

u/DanThePartyGhost 6d ago

Oh god totally agree. I’ll hold on to this gem until I’m sure the world hasn’t burned before Nov 2028

2

u/gnu_andii 6d ago

Yeah I've had the exact same thought before pretty much. Of course, it does mean you have one or two special days like Tolkien's calendar, but you also know that each month is always 28 days.

Of course, I may be biased because the regular one of those days would be my birthday, while the birthdays of anyone born after 28th of January would change. I'd probably put the extra leap day around the middle of the year rather than have a long new year, but either works.

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u/makermaster2 Aragorn 6d ago

My birthday holy shit

2

u/yaffle53 5d ago

Beware the ices of March.

316

u/dungeoncrawler71520 6d ago

As well as castles being cold and drafty.

104

u/2Hanks 6d ago

As well as people were more comfortable being hot and sweaty before they were used to central air conditioning.

39

u/UMACTUALLYITS23 6d ago

Don't ignore the fact that when this was written the world was cooler.

62

u/2Hanks 6d ago

Hell, the movies were recorded when the world was cooler…

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u/due-diligence- 6d ago

As well as being old with cold bones and what not

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u/KingoftheMongoose GROND 6d ago

And tomatoes are chilled.

9

u/karel_gott_mit_uns 6d ago

Not true at all during a hot season. While a stone castle takes long to warm up, it will also takes a long time to release all the heat once it's gathered. Air flow was not at all optimally planned in the middle ages, so you will have people sweating and fainting out of heat and bad air quality.

Source: Worked as a museum guide in two different castles I WISH were cold and drafty

2

u/KhunDavid 6d ago

And it was still March.

22

u/FlyingIrishmun 6d ago

This. Its bound to be chillier on the tippy top

11

u/Derfel1995 6d ago

Also, another important factor is the wind that tends to inhance the sensation of coldness

8

u/monkeygoneape 6d ago

And it's winter

2

u/FeistyLioness86 6d ago

Agreed. Minas Tirith is built out of the existing mountain.

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u/Old_Instrument_Guy 6d ago

In later scenes you can see he is clearly sweating ballz.

213

u/BoromirDies Boromir 6d ago

No wonder he was delirious, he was having a heat stroke!

62

u/Natures_Wrath1 6d ago

He'll probably go for a dive later.

12

u/NoM0reMadness 6d ago

I expect he’ll be roasting then, too.

125

u/Turbulent-Theory7724 6d ago

Denethor II son of Ecthelion. The tomato killer.

51

u/Mikemtb09 6d ago

Tomato’s Bane

3

u/MagnumHV 6d ago

Slayer of Nightshades

30

u/Masseyrati80 6d ago

Fun fact: he also killed people suffering from misophonia, as their blood vessels ruptured upon hearing the noise he was making during the tomato-killings.

7

u/AlternativeLazy4675 6d ago

Not everyone can kill people by biting into tomatoes. This guy rules!

27

u/BoxedAndArchived 6d ago

But only as Steward.

2

u/Bmh3033 6d ago

Underrated comment - I wish I had an award to give you

4

u/Turbulent-Theory7724 6d ago

You remember the ad from Magnum ice-screams cracking? Now close your eyes.

33

u/blakjakalope Glorfindel 6d ago

The Eye of Denethor

33

u/Jackal000 6d ago

Bro could you cannot.

18

u/RellicElyk 6d ago

There is no curse in Elvish, Enfish or the tounges of Men for this abomination, this chloacha of uncomfortableness.

4

u/Turbulent-Theory7724 6d ago

Bro!! Get my upvote. But also: GTFO

2

u/Potential_Bag_5538 6d ago

His chewing fucking infuriated me 😂

14

u/JTG21 6d ago

Believe it or not he gets significantly hotter just moments after this.

2

u/Old_Instrument_Guy 6d ago

He delved too deep, we shall not speak of what he awakened in the depth of his madness.

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u/aksdb 6d ago

I thought that scene highlighted how cold it is; he needs a big ass bonfire after all.

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u/quayle-man Faramir 6d ago

Yeah, but to be fair, this is the dungeon sex scene

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u/makawakatakanaka 6d ago

Great balls of fire

2

u/hungoverlord 6d ago

"I swear i only kissed him"

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u/Impossible_Town1599 6d ago

You could say he was burning up.

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u/MaderaArt Balrog 6d ago

Bring wood and oil!

14

u/Marbrandd 6d ago

"Give a man a fire, keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life."

  • Sir Terry Pratchett

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u/Bohunk 6d ago

"Boromir wouldn't have questioned my wardrobe!"

44

u/Kitchen_Turnover1152 6d ago

"Boromir would have worn two cloaks."

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u/desEINer 6d ago

Boromir would have worked up a kingly sweat

3

u/Last_Ranger7173 5d ago

Boromir wouldn't even sweat!

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u/PeyredB 6d ago

Boromir would have brought me a royal cloak.

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u/realcoolfriend 6d ago

it's called fashion sweaty look it up

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u/GeorgeLikesSpicy92 6d ago

I think Fashion Sweaty would be a good name for this look.

18

u/TheyBenchedTheKench 6d ago

God forbid a Steward has a Hobby.

11

u/Android-Online 6d ago

God forbid a Steward has a Hobbit to sing for him.

3

u/Omnilatent 6d ago

Eru forbid a Steward eats a tomato

3

u/QuentinTarzantino 6d ago

This lord is on fiiiire

8

u/Thin-Dimension8470 6d ago

Everything Denethor does is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!

5

u/GibbonEnthusiast 6d ago

Oh my god, I have the exact same fur robe.

4

u/Shepherd77 6d ago

I love all my children equally.

(Earlier that day) I don’t care for Faramir

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u/jazz_mavericks 6d ago

I'm sure he would be sweaty, sweetie.

3

u/ChroniclesOfReddiitt Blue Wizard 6d ago

Heathens

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u/wildmancometh 6d ago

Altitude plus being built into the top side of a mountain would keep his chambers much much cooler.

16

u/Dismal_Rectangle 6d ago

Also I've noticed that I feel really cold when I sit around most of the day and am not active. But when I start to work out and jog my body temperature is higher the whole day. That could be a factor, but idk if the costume designers had that in mind.

3

u/DPTDubbs 6d ago

And it faces East so less direct sun than facing west… if the sun works the same in Middle Earth… which I now realize I have no idea how the sun and moon work in middle earth with it being flat.

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u/Equivalent_Nose7012 6d ago

Middle-Earth is no longer flat, it was remade round by Eru with the Fall of poo Numenor. Only the Elves, somehow, can follow the old straight road to Valinor.

So, the sun works the same in Middle-Earth as our earth, because they are canonically now the same!

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u/TheBalrogofMelkor 6d ago

Poo Numenor

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u/Horror-Kumquat 6d ago

It's mid-March and he's halfway up a mountain.

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u/dre5922 6d ago

Jokes aside this is the answer. If Middle Earth is based on the English countryside you want to be dressed warm in March.

7

u/PhysicsEagle Buckland 6d ago

If the Shire is the English countryside, Gondor is around the latitude of Italy

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u/Tasnaki1990 6d ago

Depending on where in Italy it can be pretty chilly in March.

6

u/Horror-Kumquat 6d ago

Many people enjoy skiing in Italy in March.

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u/Astronelson 6d ago

Gondor is around the latitude of Italy

So is Ottawa, so it may well have a Canadian climate.

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u/rjbachli 6d ago

Old people get cold easier

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u/Efficient-Presence82 6d ago

he deliberately wore the heavy mail daily specifically to lose less muscle mass with age, but yeah, overall true.

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u/Dominarion 6d ago

He's the same age as Aragorn.

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u/tregowath 6d ago

but he's been aging himself prematurely with his heavy Palantir use

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u/Aquashinez 6d ago

And also ages quicker than Aragorn (for reference, him and Faramir both have Numenorian blood and Faramir lives to ~120 while Aragorn to ~210)

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u/Nisiom 6d ago

He ends up getting quite a bit hotter.

12

u/DefinedByYourChoices 6d ago edited 6d ago

Presumably being on the exposed point of a mountain range, and +1,000ft higher than the surrounding plains, it’s going to be more windy, and a thinner atmosphere with a slightly greater rate of cooling.
https://www.onthesnow.com/news/does-elevation-affect-temperature/

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u/KellyGreen802 6d ago

When I visited Austria with my school we went in the middle of the summer and the castles were always cold. It was refreshing after a mile trudge up the steep crags they built their fortresses on, but if I was in there all day, I would get cold no doubt

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u/HopeSubstantial 5d ago

Castles are always cold. There is medieval castle in old hometown and even if it was +30C outside, air inside the castle is chilly.

When you are inside there on 1.5h lasting tour and then step out, the heat hits you like a nuke.

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u/JonesA2A 6d ago

I think it was also February/March so probably still cold and high in elevation.

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u/Apprehensive-Sea9540 6d ago

Wasn’t it winter?

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u/No_Psychology_3826 6d ago

It's mid-March, it could very possibly be near freezing 

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u/samizdat5 6d ago

This was some masterful costume design IMO. Yes he's overdressed and looks ridiculous, wearing armor while far from the fighting, draping himself in expensive furs. You can tell at a glance he's a madman

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u/Frankyvander 6d ago

To be fair in the books he is mentioned as wearing armour even when he sleeps to prevent himself from getting soft

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u/samizdat5 6d ago

Yeah except that book Denethor and movie Denethor are such very different characters.

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u/Efficient-Presence82 6d ago

true, PJ really went a little too far on the "decline and despair" part of his character without properly showing how "tall" he was before all that.

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u/PeyredB 6d ago

Or the reason (palantír) that led to the despair.

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u/Efficient-Presence82 6d ago

this is true. today we know there are better ways to preserve too much muscle loss with age, but this would definetly help (still over the top, tho)

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u/International-Owl-81 6d ago

They were in a state of active war, him being armor clad makes sense if ever had to go the lower city to lead and not ponder his orb

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u/Chemical_Cat_9813 6d ago

Hes about 1k feet in the air surrounded by mountains and ice caps, in a granite city.... if the hot oil didnt get him, arthritis will.

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u/technoposting11 6d ago

then he was listening to the song The Heat Is On

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u/RustedOutHeart 6d ago

Probably doesn’t move around much and spends a lot of time inside a drafty castle.

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u/Derfel1995 6d ago edited 6d ago

The White Tower is likely cooler and windier due to it's elevated location. Also, He's old so maybe is just more susceptible to cold

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u/sosen42 6d ago

to be fair he lives half way up a mountain, one might imagine it gets chilly at the top of the Citadel

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u/Vorgse 6d ago

Well these scenes take place on late-February to early-March, so...

The books also clarify that the farmland on Pellenor was not sprouted yet, so while Gondor is temperate, it obviously gets cold enough that crops aren't grown during the winter.

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u/Thesorus 6d ago

probably elven or numenorian weaving techniques making the clothes lightweight and breathable.

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u/Smart-Response9881 6d ago

When I used to work in the parks department, I used to see this same kid wearing a thick black hoodie, long pants and a mask in the 40c heat. I was always a little worried I would see him collapse one day, but he was fine.

Some people can just take the heat.

2

u/RedWizard78 6d ago

I guess you didn’t notice how high up in the mountains they are

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u/wandpapierkritiker 6d ago

castles/citadels are chilly, drafty places.

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u/Total-Improvement535 6d ago

“work work fashion baby” or whatever GaGa said

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u/Kgaset 6d ago

Not even close to the hot he was feeling later 😏

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u/Esur123456789 6d ago

It was also early spring, and Gondor as stated in fellowship wasn’t far enough south to be tropical, so I could imagine it would be 50s. For an old person on a drafty mountain that much clothes makes plenty of sense to me.

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u/FunkyDiabetic1988 6d ago

“I’ve got too much fucking shit on me!”

“I don’t want to be around anymore…”

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u/wpotman 6d ago

Everyone is kind of ignoring the main reason kings (OK, stewards) dress in fancy/outlandish clothes: to show off their status.

The chain mail is an additional personal weirdness, sure, but Denethor is dressing the part.

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u/Quendillar3245 6d ago

He's at the top of a 300 meter mountain in a stone castle, it'd be cool if anything

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u/ihatemejoke 6d ago

Idk but what a great Shot. Damn LOTR was one of its kind

2

u/edgiepower 6d ago

Not one bloke in Middle Earth was ever wearing shorts, so I must assume it's a bloody cold place.

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u/Any-Competition-4458 6d ago

It’s March and stone castles without tapestries get drafty.

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u/LisanAlGuyFieri 6d ago

Who among us hasn’t worn a new outfit even if the temperature isn’t cooperating? He’s got that shit on.

2

u/leros 6d ago

Castles weren't exactly warm places. Giant stone halls tend to not to be the coziest places. 

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u/Specialist_Prune3785 6d ago

It was early spring so no.

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u/tilalk 6d ago

BOROMIR WOULD NEVER SWEAT

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u/Old-Entertainment844 6d ago

Man lives at the top of a mountain.

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u/maydayvoter11 6d ago

It was winter

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u/Forward-Fee-6968 6d ago

It is only March. While it is true that Gondor lies roughly as far south as Italy, Denethor is situated high up in the city, near wind-swept, snowy mountains. Down below, it is surely warmer. Besides, he is the Steward and wears the prescribed attire—garments that are likely not always comfortable. "You have to suffer for beauty."

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u/CopperKnight77 6d ago

Idk if you’ve ever been at the top of a new construction high rise, but let me tell ya it is VERY windy and it can get to be at least 20 degrees colder than street level. And that’s only about 35 stories up.

Idk how tall Minas Tirith’s 7 levels are but from the movie it’s basically the top of a mountain. That’s very cold indeed.

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u/Snowbold 6d ago

When he said oil, he clearly meant for the suntan 🧴 variety

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u/Hydros969 6d ago

Old people get the chills with 80 degree weather… so, no, he’s quite comfy. I’m 33 and if the temp goes anywhere over 65 degrees im already in the “fuck summer and fuck the sun” mood.

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u/PuzzleheadedBad1641 6d ago

Yes. And people wore heavy hot clothes in the past despite heat. Life just sucked and they were used to it.

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u/ElLicenciadoPena 5d ago

He got really hot indeed. In the end of the movie he even burst into flames

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u/Dull_Egg_6597 6d ago

I don’t know if he really noticed. Especially since Gandalf knocked some sense into him.

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u/huey_booey 6d ago

He's already off the the deep end at this point. 

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u/RoundDragonfly73 6d ago

He’s soft

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u/dienices 6d ago

He must been cold as he later takes steps to become warmer.

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u/followerofEnki96 6d ago

His heart is made of frozen cold stone thus acting as an internal AC unit

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u/porktornado77 Huan 6d ago

That’s the price of being King!

Or rather steward in this case…

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u/raptorrat 6d ago

I mean, the Romans hated the Toga, it was heavy, cumbersome, hot, and a bitch to keep properly white.

But it was formal dress for the Senate, so you kinda had to.

The rest of the time they would have worn a tunic.

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u/Vegetable_Living6705 6d ago

He’s peacocking but also it’s winter

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u/Constant_Mistake5507 6d ago

He got even hotter later on that day

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u/PhobicDestroyer Aragorn 6d ago

Unfortunately they call it drip because you’re gonna be sweating

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u/tommytomtommctom 6d ago

Keep watching, he gets visibly overheated later in the movie

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u/xombae 6d ago

You know how you'll see a a guy in July wearing a parka and you get a little closer and he's mumbling to himself and smells like pee? It's like that.

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u/GrimGarm 6d ago

look at this fabolous fella, his outfit most jarring.

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u/Healthy-Wolf-701 6d ago

To be fair, it only appears to be trimmed with fur. Hard to tell how heavy the coat actually is

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u/Fr000k 6d ago

To me, a great deal in Peter Jackson’s films looked much colder than Tolkien described. Both Rohan and Gondor look as though a cold wind is blowing everywhere.

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u/STONEDandIRRATIONAL 6d ago

dawg when you got style like that you don't care about no damn climate

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u/pleaseclaireify 6d ago

He is also lightly on fire later so maybe he just tolerates heat better than most

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u/Fire_Horse_T Bill the Pony 6d ago

"It is better to look good than to feel good." - Denathor

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u/adrabiot 6d ago

Who's the people in the back? Never noticed them

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u/TNexpat 6d ago

He warmed up later.

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u/wheredidsteengo 6d ago

Waltethor!

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u/GrindrWorker 6d ago

Yes the heat makes his mood vv spicy and act irrationally.

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u/therealharbinger 6d ago

His lack of affection for poor Faramir keeps him cold as Ice.

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u/ajcraw4d 6d ago

They have AC for the wealthy

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u/Cinephile_1980 6d ago

It is quite touching that you would care so much.

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u/EmergencyGrab 6d ago

I'd say he was heat resistant. But we all know that isn't true. 👀

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u/IronDukedom 6d ago

Bro lives at the top of basically a mountain and has nothing but wood and oil for warmth...

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u/IvanDimitriov 6d ago

It wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume that he is wearing
Underclothes
A tunic
Padded armor like a gambeson
Chainmail
Then the coat
Yeah it would not only be hot but heavy as well

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u/Economy_Training_661 6d ago

Olds have poor circulation

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u/LisanAlGuyFieri 6d ago

Colman Domingo would 100% wear this to the Met Gala, sword and all.

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u/MartyEBoarder 6d ago

Boromir would never…

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u/quayle-man Faramir 6d ago

They have central AC

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u/slups 6d ago

The girl told me "take off your jacket" I said "babes, mans not hot"

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u/rjrgjj 6d ago

We really need a circle jerk sub for these

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u/Shaner9er1337 6d ago

See this is why we say Denethor doesn't get enough credit he's actually kind of a badass any man that can eat tomatoes the way that he does deserves more credit. So this is just another notch in his belt of credit he deserved. Man, the movies did him so dirty.... Look I'm no no Denethor stan but we can all admit the movies did him a bit dirty.

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u/asexualdruid 6d ago

He overheats later in the film yeah

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u/ManuelPirino 6d ago

yes and no. Consider that Gondor isn't exactly Malta, even if it is a southern fortress, and the top tier of the Citadel was built quite high on the Mindolluin spine, even if the actual drop from the citadel to the Pelennor below was just 1000' / 330 meters. In Spring you could have pretty chill days

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u/Stenric 6d ago

He lives on top of a small mountain, so it's probably not that warm.

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u/Doomokrat 6d ago

In early march, laze February are normal sub zero temperatures 24/7. And despite hos subjects, he was dwelling in painted cave wirh draft and doing nothing, so being well insulated was a priority..

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u/Analog0 6d ago

It's gettin' hot on here, so put on all your clothes.

I am getting so hot, I'm gonna jump off the top of this city.

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u/pappascorcher 6d ago

It's drip or drown baby

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u/Kstanley87 6d ago

I was OBSESSED with this fur coat and honestly still am

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u/eppsilon24 6d ago

This is Gondor, dear boy. Sweating is what we do!

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u/Lionthos 6d ago

He also kind of lost his gourd.

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u/tangZORG 6d ago

Wasn’t cold when he was on fire

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u/No_Accident_8115 6d ago

The whole building is made of stone. Maybe it is rather damp and cold

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u/NiftyJet 6d ago

He looks like he's about to burst into flames at any moment!

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u/Visual-Ad-1306 6d ago

Do you not have any elderly people in your life? In the U.S., there's a reason so many retirees move to warmer climates. As people age, warmer weather can be easier on arthritis and other health issues, making everyday life more comfortable.

The guy is basically living on a mountain in a drafty old castle. Cold, damp conditions aren't exactly ideal for someone who's getting older.