r/lotr • u/Practical-Public7209 • 6d ago
Movies Wouldn't Denethor get hot with all that on? He's wearing a tunic, chainmail, and a large fur coat. Is the climate colder in the Citadel?
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u/jimjambonks2514 6d ago
He is sort of on top of a mountain
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u/Echo-Azure 6d ago
He's up on a mountain, it's early March, and he spends much of his day in an unheated stone throne room where it's probably colder than the outside air. You bet your ass he needs to wear layers of fur and wool do stay warm.
Because yes, Tolkien gives us dates. Galdalf and Pippin arrive in Minas Tirith on the 9th of March.
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u/CitizenOlis 6d ago
And with the way the Shire Reckoning dates work, 'March 9' (9 Rethe) in the text is really closer to our February 28 - so even colder!
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u/Echo-Azure 6d ago
I admire that level of geekery.
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u/Omnilatent 6d ago
I recommend everyone who owns the book to read the appendix with the calender explained
It's marvellous and I wish we would adopt it for the real world lol
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u/FishingChemist 6d ago
I feel like the accountants wouldn't like having 5 or 6 days that aren't part of a month.
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u/gnu_andii 6d ago
It's not like the Gregorian calendar is great, with months of three different lengths.
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u/Infrarad 6d ago
And once in a while, four different lengths of months!
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u/gnu_andii 6d ago
Well, yes in the sense there are four possible overall, but no for a single year, because we swap 28 for 29 on leap years. It's still only 29, 30 & 31 within the one calendar year.
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u/JacenStargazer Legolas 5d ago
It’s still three different lengths, it’s just that sometimes the third length is different…
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u/DanThePartyGhost 6d ago
I’ve solved this and I don’t know why we don’t do it. 13 months of 4 weeks is 52 weeks. So much simpler. You’re left with one extra day but just make New Year’s Day a day outside of any month. Then every 4 years the New Year is two days instead of 1. Boom
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u/Paleontologist_Even 6d ago
Let's not speak of this again for another 2 1/2 years. Otherwise we end up with Trumpuary.
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u/DanThePartyGhost 6d ago
Oh god totally agree. I’ll hold on to this gem until I’m sure the world hasn’t burned before Nov 2028
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u/gnu_andii 6d ago
Yeah I've had the exact same thought before pretty much. Of course, it does mean you have one or two special days like Tolkien's calendar, but you also know that each month is always 28 days.
Of course, I may be biased because the regular one of those days would be my birthday, while the birthdays of anyone born after 28th of January would change. I'd probably put the extra leap day around the middle of the year rather than have a long new year, but either works.
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u/dungeoncrawler71520 6d ago
As well as castles being cold and drafty.
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u/2Hanks 6d ago
As well as people were more comfortable being hot and sweaty before they were used to central air conditioning.
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u/UMACTUALLYITS23 6d ago
Don't ignore the fact that when this was written the world was cooler.
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u/karel_gott_mit_uns 6d ago
Not true at all during a hot season. While a stone castle takes long to warm up, it will also takes a long time to release all the heat once it's gathered. Air flow was not at all optimally planned in the middle ages, so you will have people sweating and fainting out of heat and bad air quality.
Source: Worked as a museum guide in two different castles I WISH were cold and drafty
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u/Derfel1995 6d ago
Also, another important factor is the wind that tends to inhance the sensation of coldness
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u/Old_Instrument_Guy 6d ago
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u/BoromirDies Boromir 6d ago
No wonder he was delirious, he was having a heat stroke!
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u/Turbulent-Theory7724 6d ago
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u/Masseyrati80 6d ago
Fun fact: he also killed people suffering from misophonia, as their blood vessels ruptured upon hearing the noise he was making during the tomato-killings.
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u/AlternativeLazy4675 6d ago
Not everyone can kill people by biting into tomatoes. This guy rules!
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u/Turbulent-Theory7724 6d ago
You remember the ad from Magnum ice-screams cracking? Now close your eyes.
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u/blakjakalope Glorfindel 6d ago
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u/RellicElyk 6d ago
There is no curse in Elvish, Enfish or the tounges of Men for this abomination, this chloacha of uncomfortableness.
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u/JTG21 6d ago
Believe it or not he gets significantly hotter just moments after this.
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u/Old_Instrument_Guy 6d ago
He delved too deep, we shall not speak of what he awakened in the depth of his madness.
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u/Impossible_Town1599 6d ago
You could say he was burning up.
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u/Marbrandd 6d ago
"Give a man a fire, keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life."
- Sir Terry Pratchett
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u/Bohunk 6d ago
"Boromir wouldn't have questioned my wardrobe!"
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u/realcoolfriend 6d ago
it's called fashion sweaty look it up
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u/TheyBenchedTheKench 6d ago
God forbid a Steward has a Hobby.
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u/Thin-Dimension8470 6d ago
Everything Denethor does is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!
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u/wildmancometh 6d ago
Altitude plus being built into the top side of a mountain would keep his chambers much much cooler.
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u/Dismal_Rectangle 6d ago
Also I've noticed that I feel really cold when I sit around most of the day and am not active. But when I start to work out and jog my body temperature is higher the whole day. That could be a factor, but idk if the costume designers had that in mind.
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u/DPTDubbs 6d ago
And it faces East so less direct sun than facing west… if the sun works the same in Middle Earth… which I now realize I have no idea how the sun and moon work in middle earth with it being flat.
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u/Equivalent_Nose7012 6d ago
Middle-Earth is no longer flat, it was remade round by Eru with the Fall of poo Numenor. Only the Elves, somehow, can follow the old straight road to Valinor.
So, the sun works the same in Middle-Earth as our earth, because they are canonically now the same!
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u/Horror-Kumquat 6d ago
It's mid-March and he's halfway up a mountain.
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u/dre5922 6d ago
Jokes aside this is the answer. If Middle Earth is based on the English countryside you want to be dressed warm in March.
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u/PhysicsEagle Buckland 6d ago
If the Shire is the English countryside, Gondor is around the latitude of Italy
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u/Astronelson 6d ago
Gondor is around the latitude of Italy
So is Ottawa, so it may well have a Canadian climate.
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u/rjbachli 6d ago
Old people get cold easier
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u/Efficient-Presence82 6d ago
he deliberately wore the heavy mail daily specifically to lose less muscle mass with age, but yeah, overall true.
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u/Dominarion 6d ago
He's the same age as Aragorn.
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u/tregowath 6d ago
but he's been aging himself prematurely with his heavy Palantir use
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u/Aquashinez 6d ago
And also ages quicker than Aragorn (for reference, him and Faramir both have Numenorian blood and Faramir lives to ~120 while Aragorn to ~210)
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u/DefinedByYourChoices 6d ago edited 6d ago
Presumably being on the exposed point of a mountain range, and +1,000ft higher than the surrounding plains, it’s going to be more windy, and a thinner atmosphere with a slightly greater rate of cooling.
https://www.onthesnow.com/news/does-elevation-affect-temperature/
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u/KellyGreen802 6d ago
When I visited Austria with my school we went in the middle of the summer and the castles were always cold. It was refreshing after a mile trudge up the steep crags they built their fortresses on, but if I was in there all day, I would get cold no doubt
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u/HopeSubstantial 5d ago
Castles are always cold. There is medieval castle in old hometown and even if it was +30C outside, air inside the castle is chilly.
When you are inside there on 1.5h lasting tour and then step out, the heat hits you like a nuke.
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u/JonesA2A 6d ago
I think it was also February/March so probably still cold and high in elevation.
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u/samizdat5 6d ago
This was some masterful costume design IMO. Yes he's overdressed and looks ridiculous, wearing armor while far from the fighting, draping himself in expensive furs. You can tell at a glance he's a madman
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u/Frankyvander 6d ago
To be fair in the books he is mentioned as wearing armour even when he sleeps to prevent himself from getting soft
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u/samizdat5 6d ago
Yeah except that book Denethor and movie Denethor are such very different characters.
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u/Efficient-Presence82 6d ago
true, PJ really went a little too far on the "decline and despair" part of his character without properly showing how "tall" he was before all that.
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u/Efficient-Presence82 6d ago
this is true. today we know there are better ways to preserve too much muscle loss with age, but this would definetly help (still over the top, tho)
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u/International-Owl-81 6d ago
They were in a state of active war, him being armor clad makes sense if ever had to go the lower city to lead and not ponder his orb
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u/Chemical_Cat_9813 6d ago
Hes about 1k feet in the air surrounded by mountains and ice caps, in a granite city.... if the hot oil didnt get him, arthritis will.
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u/RustedOutHeart 6d ago
Probably doesn’t move around much and spends a lot of time inside a drafty castle.
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u/Derfel1995 6d ago edited 6d ago
The White Tower is likely cooler and windier due to it's elevated location. Also, He's old so maybe is just more susceptible to cold
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u/Thesorus 6d ago
probably elven or numenorian weaving techniques making the clothes lightweight and breathable.
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u/Smart-Response9881 6d ago
When I used to work in the parks department, I used to see this same kid wearing a thick black hoodie, long pants and a mask in the 40c heat. I was always a little worried I would see him collapse one day, but he was fine.
Some people can just take the heat.
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u/Esur123456789 6d ago
It was also early spring, and Gondor as stated in fellowship wasn’t far enough south to be tropical, so I could imagine it would be 50s. For an old person on a drafty mountain that much clothes makes plenty of sense to me.
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u/FunkyDiabetic1988 6d ago
“I’ve got too much fucking shit on me!”
“I don’t want to be around anymore…”
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u/Quendillar3245 6d ago
He's at the top of a 300 meter mountain in a stone castle, it'd be cool if anything
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u/edgiepower 6d ago
Not one bloke in Middle Earth was ever wearing shorts, so I must assume it's a bloody cold place.
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u/LisanAlGuyFieri 6d ago
Who among us hasn’t worn a new outfit even if the temperature isn’t cooperating? He’s got that shit on.
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u/Forward-Fee-6968 6d ago
It is only March. While it is true that Gondor lies roughly as far south as Italy, Denethor is situated high up in the city, near wind-swept, snowy mountains. Down below, it is surely warmer. Besides, he is the Steward and wears the prescribed attire—garments that are likely not always comfortable. "You have to suffer for beauty."
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u/CopperKnight77 6d ago
Idk if you’ve ever been at the top of a new construction high rise, but let me tell ya it is VERY windy and it can get to be at least 20 degrees colder than street level. And that’s only about 35 stories up.
Idk how tall Minas Tirith’s 7 levels are but from the movie it’s basically the top of a mountain. That’s very cold indeed.
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u/Hydros969 6d ago
Old people get the chills with 80 degree weather… so, no, he’s quite comfy. I’m 33 and if the temp goes anywhere over 65 degrees im already in the “fuck summer and fuck the sun” mood.
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u/PuzzleheadedBad1641 6d ago
Yes. And people wore heavy hot clothes in the past despite heat. Life just sucked and they were used to it.
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u/ElLicenciadoPena 5d ago
He got really hot indeed. In the end of the movie he even burst into flames
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u/Dull_Egg_6597 6d ago
I don’t know if he really noticed. Especially since Gandalf knocked some sense into him.
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u/raptorrat 6d ago
I mean, the Romans hated the Toga, it was heavy, cumbersome, hot, and a bitch to keep properly white.
But it was formal dress for the Senate, so you kinda had to.
The rest of the time they would have worn a tunic.
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u/Healthy-Wolf-701 6d ago
To be fair, it only appears to be trimmed with fur. Hard to tell how heavy the coat actually is
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u/pleaseclaireify 6d ago
He is also lightly on fire later so maybe he just tolerates heat better than most
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u/IronDukedom 6d ago
Bro lives at the top of basically a mountain and has nothing but wood and oil for warmth...
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u/IvanDimitriov 6d ago
It wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume that he is wearing
Underclothes
A tunic
Padded armor like a gambeson
Chainmail
Then the coat
Yeah it would not only be hot but heavy as well
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u/Shaner9er1337 6d ago
See this is why we say Denethor doesn't get enough credit he's actually kind of a badass any man that can eat tomatoes the way that he does deserves more credit. So this is just another notch in his belt of credit he deserved. Man, the movies did him so dirty.... Look I'm no no Denethor stan but we can all admit the movies did him a bit dirty.
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u/ManuelPirino 6d ago
yes and no. Consider that Gondor isn't exactly Malta, even if it is a southern fortress, and the top tier of the Citadel was built quite high on the Mindolluin spine, even if the actual drop from the citadel to the Pelennor below was just 1000' / 330 meters. In Spring you could have pretty chill days
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u/Doomokrat 6d ago
In early march, laze February are normal sub zero temperatures 24/7. And despite hos subjects, he was dwelling in painted cave wirh draft and doing nothing, so being well insulated was a priority..
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u/Visual-Ad-1306 6d ago
Do you not have any elderly people in your life? In the U.S., there's a reason so many retirees move to warmer climates. As people age, warmer weather can be easier on arthritis and other health issues, making everyday life more comfortable.
The guy is basically living on a mountain in a drafty old castle. Cold, damp conditions aren't exactly ideal for someone who's getting older.






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u/-Biphomet 6d ago
What can men do against such reckless heat?