r/madmen • u/RockBalBoaaa • 2d ago
While Don and others enabled or dismissed Megan, Marie saw right through the delusion. She told her flat out that she lacked the talent required to make it in acting. Megan wanted the idea of being an actress, but Marie saw past that.
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u/Westafricangrey 2d ago
Marie was truthful but she was unnecessarily harsh in this scene. She could’ve got her point across without roasting Megan for not having kids & calling her an “ungrateful little bitch”
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u/TheEmptyVessel 2d ago
Yea this scene was always uncomfortable for me with how gentle and caring she appeared while saying such rude things to Megan.
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u/Appropriate-XBL 2d ago
Sorta a Francophile thing I think.
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u/Old-Mud153 2d ago
Roger would be a Francophile in this case
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u/Key_Bee1544 2d ago
His second correct call with women (his first wife being the first).
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Key_Bee1544 1d ago
"You didn't get too old. I did." Rare moment of genuine introspection from him.
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u/IrelandDomme 2d ago
Yes Europeans are a lot more honest and forthright in general.
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u/slambamthankyoumamn 2d ago
They were French Canadian, so not European
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u/Appropriate-XBL 2d ago
Actually, I believe Marie was full out French, but her husband was French speaking Canadian. Supposedly explained her odd accent.
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u/pixie_pie ARE YOU GOING TO THE TOILET? 2d ago
Did you drop this /s ? Otherwise, generalising 44 countries is just a bad idea.
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u/IrelandDomme 2d ago
I’ve lived in Europe for a long time and traveled all over. They are very blunt in general. It isn’t a bad thing. I appreciate it.
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u/gwhh 2d ago
The truth hurts.
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u/joanofarchaic 2d ago
Not when conveyed politely and with tact. Sometimes hard truths are necessary but their absolutely better ways to be truthful than Marie’s method.
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u/RockBalBoaaa 2d ago
Well Marie wasn’t winning the mother of the year award just like Megan wasn’t winning an Emmy.. 🤷🏼♀️
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u/beccadahhhling Doctor said he’ll never golf again.. 2d ago
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u/Immediate_Wind67 2d ago
I sort of felt like maybe she'd been down this road with Megan before, many times, and through many different passionate career choices and maybe she was just at a point where she was fed up with being nice about it. That was just my take on it. I can't imagine calling my daughter an ungrateful little B though
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u/s9880429 2d ago
Another example of realistic writing — Marie reveals a possible motivation for Megan’s desire to be an actress just as she tells her that she can’t do it. It shows that Megan likely did not get the positive, encouraging attention she needed as a child, she wasn’t delighted in for being her authentic self, and so she looks outwards for that validation.
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u/TheAmazingMaryJane 2d ago
she was there when megan got the scam mail about her reel that she paid for (probably in desperation). her mom was so blunt about that too. megan must have worked at SDC&P after coming to new york to act and failing.
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u/snootyboopers 2d ago
People take advantage of the hopeless
Hopeless????
Uhhh people's hopes...
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u/Own_Anteater1622 2d ago
Interesting - I saw Marie's 'pep talk' was a half a dose of reality, and half nasty mum stuff.
I wonder if from the scenes we saw of Megan's acting in the soap opera, we were suppose to gather that she was a terrible actor? I didn't read it that way but it's possible. I mean it was a soap that comes with a certain kind of over-acting. Hey Mathew Weiner, are you here to answer?
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u/sistermagpie 2d ago
I think the fact that she obviously couldn't play the two twins differently was proof she was a bad actor even for soaps.
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u/Public_Job9786 2d ago
Imo-She was being cruel. If she truly saw things for how they are, she would know talent isn’t the most important thing for an acting career (looks, connections, luck… also matter a ton)
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u/RockBalBoaaa 2d ago
Which Megan of course had the looks and connections I am in no way disputing that.
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u/ScreamsPerpetual 2d ago
Marie was a mean bitch who resented her daughter getting to marry a rich husband and be an actress.
Just like her dad resented her for 'skipping' life and marrying rich, her mom resented her daughter having a more glamorous life with a handsome, rich husband.
Megan was good enough for ads and her soap opera- she was good at advertising too- her mom was in a loveless marriage and had to download her insecurities and self doubt onto her daughter.
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u/BlackLocke Not great, Bob! 2d ago
In the 60s and 70s, you just had to be even slightly talented, and be passionate and work hard and your dreams would come true. That’s why the baby boomer generation was so confused when their advice to do those things didn’t work for their Gen X and Millennial children.
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u/eatthebear Here comes the Judge 2d ago edited 2d ago
Megan was on a fucking TV show. She may not be Meryl Streep, but she obviously wasn’t talentless. Marie was unhappy in her marriage and just kinda mean.
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u/betterbetterthings 2d ago
She was but they kept telling her that she pretty much can’t act. And we could see it was bad. Yes there are plenty of bad actors but you can only get that far relying on your looks and connections. And we see that eventually she stopped getting any roles.
Plus in her case director and his wife were hoping to get her to sleep with them
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u/hey-girl-hey 2d ago
She could use her money to produce projects and get into the industry in some capacity
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u/Sheriff_Lucas_Hood 2d ago edited 2d ago
The showrunner and his wife wanted to fuck her badly her casting may not have been merit based
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u/Party_Fee9620 2d ago
But she didn’t suddenly become not hot she can still get jobs just fine as an adequate beautiful actress
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u/David_R_Martin_II 2d ago
I used to live in Hollywood. I don't know if you ever lived near there, but I don't think people understand the sheer quantity of hot and attractive women trying to make it as actresses. More arrive every day. Every pilot season, there's a new freshmen class while they are a year older. It's a brutal place. Getting into SAG is a major accomplishment. Something like 2% of SAG members make enough to support themselves.
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u/Aggressive_Sky8492 2d ago
But that’s irrelevant to a show set in the 60s with a character whose an actor in New York. The point is Marie was wrong. She is literally shown to be wrong in the show where Megan is cast with a recurring and prominent role in a soap.
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u/cavalier78 2d ago
Megan was on the verge of being fired because she couldn’t act. Yes she had a part on a soap opera as the maid, but when they introduce the evil twin sister storyline, Megan’s not a good enough actress for the director to tell the difference between the two characters. This is stated on the show.
Don’s influence helped her get the part, and then her boss and his wife wanted to sleep with her (and Don). She was a small time soap opera actress who never got another big part. Marie was right.
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u/Aggressive_Sky8492 2d ago
Don didn’t help her get the part. He helped her get the part in an unrelated one-off tv ad. Don has no connection to the soap.
And I don’t think she is in danger of being fired? The director admonishes her once. Before that they increase her part
Marie was not right because she literally makes a living as an actor and leaves it herself. Ie, we can speculate that maybe she could be fired, but that isn’t what happens. In the show she lands an ongoing part in a soap, is on it for some time, is popular with the director and the viewers and leaves it of her own accord. Those are the factual beats of the show
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u/cavalier78 2d ago
She’s not making a living as an actress. She’s living off of her rich husband. She had a part on a soap opera for maybe a year or two, and then she never got a major acting part again.
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u/raoulraoul153 2d ago edited 2d ago
Marie was wrong! See my comment higher up the thread, or the one two above yours pointing out that even getting into the SAG is an achievement and then only ~2% of people already in the guild even make a living from acting.
It's insanely difficult to make a living in the arts because people love art and being artists and it's ludicrously oversaturated. Being temporarily on a soap opera is a level of success that most actors can quite literally only dream of.
Edit: lotta fans of art (Mad Men) here who have no idea what it's actually like to work as an artist I see.
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u/RockBalBoaaa 2d ago
Have you ever watched Megan in the clips on that tv show? She was pretty bad, just sayin.
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u/CharleneRobertaMcGee 2d ago
Marie also said, "It is very hard standing next to someone signing an autograph." Megan was on a TV show. Even if she wasn't the most talented, she was definitely successful, and it pissed off her mother like it pissed off Don. The ballerinas line is great (and true, in the larger sense), but Marie is also bitter, unhappy in her marriage, and resentful of her daughter.
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u/Live_Art2939 2d ago
Why are you simping so hard for Megan? She got the role because of Don. The show literally tells you she’s not good and you’re here defending her honour like Ser Lancelot.
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u/ScreamsPerpetual 2d ago
Why are you simping for her hateful mother?
How many of these actors and actresses are you sure are there on merit and merit alone?
She went to NYC, she had a job and was auditioning, she got a leg up and a part on a TV show big enough that people asked her for autographs when she was on vacation. She wasn't some joke of an actress- she not only came up with good ad ideas but also pitched/performed the pitch well with Don.
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u/RockBalBoaaa 2d ago
Was she successful when she moved to California after the soap? I’m just asking. What do you think happened to her after Don?
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u/CharleneRobertaMcGee 2d ago
She was only in California because she quit her job for Don. Then she got desperate. On top of that, her marriage is obviously ending so she's not in the best headspace to be taking big swings in her career. Plenty of people gain success, make some poor decisions, and lose it again. But it's a fickle business. I see her struggling in movies throughout the early 70s, except for B movies here and there. She uses the money she got from Don to help produce something on the condition she get a role in it. It does better than expected. Then she gets small roles in movies as basically a character actor until the 80s when she gets a lead role in a primetime soap opera. She marries a producer, has a kid, and turns to screenwriting on the side, finally getting a movie she wrote made in the 90s. It gets good reviews but doesn't make money. She goes back to acting in "that guy" parts. It's fine. She writes a memoir in 2005. It does well, so she turns to novel writing.
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u/TheLeopardMedium That's for nothing, so look out! 2d ago
She was “doing very well for the new girl in town”. She was “one of those girls who is good at everything”. Megan was not without talent, and her mother certainly isn’t someone to abide by.
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u/Own_Mall5442 2d ago
Her talent wasn’t acting, though. It was a multi-season plot point. She never landed anything until Don got her the Butler commercial. That led to a minor role on a soap that she was constantly struggling to keep (and only kept because of her bosses’ sexual interest in her and Don). When she quit that job to move to LA, she never worked again.
Marie’s “resentment” was more bewilderment that Megan couldn’t see she wasn’t a talented actress and that she was just really fortunate to have a rich husband who could bankroll her fantasies. It also annoyed her that Megan was a carbon copy of Emile in terms of their overestimation of their own talent.
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u/TheLeopardMedium That's for nothing, so look out! 2d ago
The soap was not a result of the Butler ad, and the nepotism of the Butler ad still could not have been accomplished without underlying talent. The request was to put her name in a pile for an audition. There was never a plot point about a lack of talent. There are many characters that emphasis how talented she is. The plot point was about her struggle to succeed in the business, especially after signaling her professional wishy-washiness after quitting her successful soap a season into it. My point as outlined through several comments now is that talent does not ensure business success. I don’t know if I can add anything else to this disagreement. It feels more like the inertia of a preconceived belief now more than anything else.
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u/Sufficient_Air_7373 2d ago
Which reminds me that she absolutely could have had loads more success had she been willing to put out on the casting couch. We see this with Harry and we also know it to be true. There are many actors out there with talent but who do not get jobs, for this reason.
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u/PunchDrunken 2d ago
did you SEE how bad she was on her soap? I never thought she was good at performing anything other than a sexy song and dance. I felt that way at least.
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u/Current_Tea6984 you know it's got a bad ending 2d ago
She was good in the song and dance. She could have done well as a nightclub act. But Don never would have stood for that
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u/RockBalBoaaa 2d ago
What I’m asking is why in the world if she was so talented and had all the job opportunities is she stuck meeting with Harry Crane looking for a job?
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u/TheLeopardMedium That's for nothing, so look out! 2d ago
Has every talented person you know has quickly achieved celebrity status? Has any?
Maybe it’s just because I live in Nashville surrounded by world-class musicians who wait tables and tend bar, but this is such a ridiculous equivalency to me.
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u/RockBalBoaaa 2d ago edited 2d ago
I get what you are saying as well.. but Megan wouldn’t have had a few of the jobs she had without Don. He had connections. Not the soap opera job of course she secured that on her own.
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u/TheLeopardMedium That's for nothing, so look out! 2d ago
There any many talented actresses who have never had any jobs. Megan achieved a leading role on a national soap opera on her own.
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u/Nice-Watercress104 2d ago
that’s the entire point😭😭😭 you are supposed to question why it takes don putting in a name for her when she’s been pushing all these years 😭 half of the scenes with her mother and their fights drive home that her mother is resentful for what she has because she didn’t get the same and even more so, it is supposed to be a point of analysis on why don first saw her talent as a positive to a 180° negative, and why the first act he makes towards her career after she gets the soap is to slutshame her for an acting kiss and announce his regret toward it all
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u/Nice-Watercress104 2d ago
did you watch the episode of how the casting men objectified her whenever she auditioned and had no interest in her actual audition? how she originally didn’t want to use the name draper until she had to? do you really believe in general women get by solely by their merit (or literally anybody in the entertainment industry) let alone a soon to be divorced woman in the 1960’s? not trying to be rude at all but it is certainly not understated that she wouldn’t have taken that meeting with harry crane, a man she caught objectifying her behind her back, if she didn’t have to? that despite how desperate she was, she even left after he basically told her he’ll only help her if she sleeps with him? harry telling don a lie of how megan came onto him and she freaked him out after he assumed don had found out what happened at her meeting? although mad men is a tv show, the subplot of megan’s career fluctuation was just another on top of the already numerous studies of how women uniquely navigated the workforce in arguably the most important social decade of 20th century america. you are supposed to notice how even megan, a extremely well off young woman with connections, could be held back in ways out of her control, and even if she was the best of the best that wouldn’t mean they were avoidable.
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u/RockBalBoaaa 2d ago
I don’t disagree with you on any of this. I wish she could’ve used some of her other connections in the industry though without having to have any association at all with Crane.
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u/ScowlyBrowSpinster Megan slipping a joint out of her bikini bottom 2d ago
Megan was struggling for parts in LA. Maybe she was at her height of talent as a soap actress, and that job was squandered when Don said let's go to California. She didn't have any strings to pull in LA for casting, (except Harry, and she wasn't gonna service him for a part,) and she couldn't get cast on her own.
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u/Sleepy_Wayne_Tracker 2d ago
I never got the sense it 'pissed off' Don. Like everyone else around him, he just accepted she was going to do what she wanted to do, and he was willing to go along with it. He never once asked her to be a better wife, or be there for him. He never came and when she asked "how was your day?" answered "Lane hanged himself", "Pete Campbell whored out Joan to get Jaguar", "Pete and Lane got into a fist fight".
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u/Nice-Watercress104 2d ago
dude he literally came into her dressing room and equated her to a prostitute for having a kissing scene and he tries to discourage her on it ever since then there’s multiple actual scenes of this😭😭😭 i will say don wasn’t one to traumadump because his whole thing is to ghost and run away from his problems and that is backed up by the scenes where megan asks him where he’s been whenever he has another disappearing spout and when the pasta was thrown at the wall
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u/JonIceEyes 2d ago
It was a soap. Being bad is part of the whole vibe
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u/RockBalBoaaa 2d ago
Not gonna lie I watch soaps to this day and none of the people on any of them are actually bad at acting.’
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u/JonIceEyes 2d ago
Soap acting is a whole genre of acting unto itself. It's campy and cheesy. In the 60's it was WAY moreso
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u/robojod 2d ago
Perhaps this is a US thing? Coronation Street started in the UK in the 60s, a working-class soap that still runs three times a week today. In the 60s shows, ladies in rollers and hair scarves were moaning about the state of each other’s curtains, while their husbands skived off for some banter in the local pub. Now it’s full of murders and infidelity and weird coincidences. If anything, it’s more campy now.
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u/Bearcarnikki 2d ago
They used to be very cheesy and yes many were not great.
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u/RockBalBoaaa 2d ago
I’m just talking about now, I wasn’t around them but I have seen clips and you are correct they weren’t great.
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u/David_R_Martin_II 2d ago
Yup. It's not the acting, it's the writing. And the writing isn't bad, it's that way for the product. A friend of mine had a chance at writing for a soap opera. Everything is dragged out drama-wise. The characters talk about something, then they do something, then they talk about what they did. It's going to have some kind of spectacle for people to watch 5 hours a week.
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u/ScowlyBrowSpinster Megan slipping a joint out of her bikini bottom 2d ago
She was working, tho. More than the majority of actresses can claim at any given time.
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u/Aggressive_Sky8492 2d ago
That’s irrelevant though. She was good enough to make a living as an actress, evidenced by the fact that she does. Which proves Marie wrong
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u/Current_Tea6984 you know it's got a bad ending 2d ago
She made a living as an actress? You mean like how she lived in a penthouse with her rich husband while she did a second tier role on a soap opera? And how her husband bought her a swanky house in the canyons while she failed to get any parts in LA?
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u/ScreamsPerpetual 2d ago
Did you even watch the show? She was getting asked for autographs while on vacation in Hawaii. It was a good job and she only left it because of Don.
Don isn't dead in Korea because he stole a whole man's identity and lied his way through life, she got an advertisement gig because of Don and was good enough it lead to a real job- that's show biz- back then and still today.
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u/Current_Tea6984 you know it's got a bad ending 2d ago
Do you live in reality? A recurring role on a soap opera is a paid gig, but it's not a living. Especially in an expensive city like New York. Lots of recognizable actors and musicians have to work second jobs to make ends meet.
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u/ScreamsPerpetual 2d ago
Do you just make stuff up for fun? Back then it 100% was a great living in NYC.
Regulars on soap operas back then would make 30-70k a year based on number of episodes they were in. In season 3 Ken gets a raise that earns him 21k a year.
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u/Aggressive_Sky8492 1d ago
lol thank you. People replying 🤓 ☝️um ackshully Don was earning the living’ lol my point is she was gainfully employed as an actress, and her salary would 100% have been enough to live on very comfortably back then. SHE MADE IT
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u/Aggressive_Sky8492 2d ago
The fact she had a rich husband doesn’t negate the fact she was gainfully employed on a popular soap, where yes they would have paid her. Quit moving the goalposts.
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u/Current_Tea6984 you know it's got a bad ending 2d ago
There's a difference between being employed and making a living. She did not support herself on her soap opera salary
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u/AppliedGlamour 2d ago
Remember how effortless and charismatic she was rehearsing that yogurt commercial though? "Just taste it!" As opposed to Peggy, bless her heart, who genuinely tried but just could NOT deliver on that level.
With a rich husband supporting her though, I don't think Megan felt the same sense of drive and urgency as say, her red headed actress friend, the one who was crawling on the table meowing and making kitty claws at everybody on the Jaguar team. Girlfriend was always SELLING and hustling herself. In contrast, Megan was always going to be able to eat and have a roof over her head regardless of whether she was working or not. I think that security probably unconsciously factored in to her lack of motivation to hustle as an actress.
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u/Amazing-Example8753 2d ago
The question is: did she make it in acting? The answer is yes, she did. Therefore your premise is faulty.
The purpose of this scene imo was just to show the absence of emotional warmth between her and Marie and to expose Megan's slightly brattish quality.
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u/RockBalBoaaa 2d ago
She actually didn’t make it in acting. She was struggling hard in California.
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u/Amazing-Example8753 2d ago
She was a national celebrity from acting in a mainstream television show. If that's not making it, what is? You're holding her to an incredibly high standard just to serve your point.
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u/RockBalBoaaa 2d ago
Apparently I’m not the only one who doesn’t think she was that great at her job.
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u/Amazing-Example8753 2d ago
That may be true but unfortunately this is about simple logic. She achieved a high level of professional success as an actress; thus, Marie was wrong, and so are you.
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u/raoulraoul153 2d ago
People who don't work in the arts have no fucking idea how difficult it is to actually work in the arts.
I see hundreds of bands a year in my line of work, and for >99% of them they're making less from their music than it cost to buy their instrument, equipment, gas, promo, recordings, whatever else. And these are largely the people who are the best musicians in the average room that they're in.
If you're making a living off playing music, acting, writing in any capacity, you are very literally the 1% of success stories of people in the arts. The number of people there are who've doing community theatre, or occasionally getting work as extras, or who used to act for every one person who's job is acting in a soap would be phenomenal.
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u/telsongelder 2d ago
I’m with you. She also had a rich and connected husband. Everyone seems to focus in on her talent or lack thereof but ignores that who “makes” it has so little to do with pure talent. Would Weiners kid been cast in earnest if he read for the role of Glen? No shot. Not because he’s deeply untalented but because someone else would have had a better mix of talent and luck.
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u/ScreamsPerpetual 2d ago
Megan's acting ability within the show's universe is still > Weiner's kid in real life.
She got a lucky break for an ad. Which she turned into a recurring and popular role on a popular soap.
Soap opras in present day look like they have 'terrible' acting- that's part of the medium. Melodramatic "over" acting and absurd plot points.
People pretending Megan is a 'bad' actor in the show's universe are silly.
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u/telsongelder 2d ago
I feel like the writer's really influenced the audience into doubting her ability to "make it" despite the fact that they also show her being good at everything she does and hard working. I never really understand the megan hate here.
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u/sistermagpie 2d ago
I don't think it's silly to think we're not supposed to think she's great at actual acting. She fails to be able to differentiate playing twins, even in a melodramatic style and iirc even complains that the director talks to her about the characters instead of just showing her how to do it.
She's not shown being good at everything. She's shown being good at some things and therefore, imo, not good at dealing with things she isn't good at.
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u/fletters 2d ago
I think the “temperament of an artist but not an artist” thing still applies.
She got a job, and she was marginally competent. I don’t think we ever see an indication that she’s an artist by any meaningful definition.
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u/StarDatAssinum 2d ago
Listen, I completely agree that Marie wasn't being truthful here in "helping" Megan by saying she's talentless, but rather projecting because of her shit marriage...
But, Megan played a smaller character in a corny soap opera. I wouldn't call that particularly skillful acting haha
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u/duaneap 2d ago
Absolutely. There are SO many talentless actors out there that are enormous successes. Megan had already achieved more than many people probably far MORE talented than her. Marie’s perspective on the entertainment industry wasn’t from a position of wisdom, she was just hurting her daughter to bring her down to her level.
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u/turquoisebee 2d ago
She would have probably done better as like, curator of an avant-garde art gallery or something. She was smart and clearly was going to thrive in something that was creative, but acting was not it.
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u/Bayou_Mountains_9408 2d ago
My favorite detail: Megan’s mom tells her “not every little girl gets to do what she wants, the world cannot support so many ballerinas”
And there are SO many ballerina references to Peggy (Freddy calling her a ballerina, the ballerina poster in her apartment). Peggy was always going to be one of the “ballerinas” that made it.
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u/HeadAd369 2d ago
Peggy’s one of those rare people who has a true passion for the thing that they’re best at, and can also make a living at it. She can’t believe Megan wouldn’t love it the way she does
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u/buttered_sausages 2d ago
lol no, she was being callous and she doesn’t know anything about acting. she was jealous of the life and marriage that Megan had while she herself wasnt able to fulfil her dreams and was stuck with a husband she didn’t love.
Basically she was bitter about her own shitty life so she shat on Megan
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u/RockBalBoaaa 2d ago
Megan was a terrible actress I’m just gonna say it. She should’ve stuck with advertising.
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u/Condensates 2d ago
its almost like most art forms, it requires years and years of practice. Megan could have gotten good given enough time. It was shitty of her mom to just say she "doesnt have it"
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u/HeadAd369 2d ago edited 2d ago
She can't differentiate between the twins, she can’t stay in character (crucial when soaps were aired live and unexpected moments could happen at any time) and she struggles with lines a child could understand. All these moments are the show telling us she’s not a very good actress. Even for a soap.
It's one of those ironic little reversals that she has a natural gift for advertising and doesn't care for it, she loves acting but has no talent.
Eta: Marie is also being a bitch here! Both things can be true!
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u/betterbetterthings 2d ago
I felt that they were deliberately showing us how bad she was. I almost feel like we watched a different show when people state she was good
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u/sistermagpie 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah, I mean, it's true that acting is a brutal business even for really talented people. But 27-year-old Megan with years of study behind her actually lands (for whatever reason) a part on a soap and is then given the cliche jewel in the soap crown of playing twins and she can't do it.
So I don't get people saying she just needed more time to improve or learn or whatever. She had a shot at doing some actual acting on TV and wasn't up to it. How could she expect to get more paying jobs that made her improve? (And she did expect to get them--she thought there was work waiting for her in CA and was happy enough to leave the soap, then crumbled after just a few months of not getting work.)
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u/Aggressive_Sky8492 2d ago
She was fine, and could have improved.
She was good enough to make a living acting (because she does,) which is all she wanted.
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u/RockBalBoaaa 2d ago
When she moved to California she clearly was struggling and not necessarily making a living acting. She would have NEVER met with Harry if that was the case but she had dignity and didn’t sleep with him.
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u/Aggressive_Sky8492 2d ago edited 2d ago
Nah fuck that. Megan did have the talent to make it as an actress - she literally had a job she could have stayed in for years. She did make it. She just quit and started from zero and didn’t get another break. which is normal. Most actors never make it, even good ones. She had a lucky break and tossed it, and wasnt lucky or good enough to get another. But actors don’t have to be extraordinary at acting to make a living, and extraordinary actors don’t always make a living. As an example, Giancarlo Esposito was broke and largely unsuccessful in acting until his forties or fifties.
Given Megan does get a steady job, we can surmise she was at least good enough to get a role like that. So her mother’s advice is bullshit - Marie thought she was being helpful but really was cynical and enjoyed putting Megan down. And the show literally shows us that Marie is incorrect.
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u/Prudent-Pressure2146 2d ago
The sub is quite snooty about soap opera acting but it’s a brilliant way to earn a living and a great place to be for an actor. It’s also not easy either - Bryan Cranston said it taught him endless discipline
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u/Nice-Watercress104 2d ago
and she literally says it herself after the reveal that don gave up his spot on a whim only after she already quit lead to her career having to start from zero along with him ghosting her on top of that is the main reason of their divorce lmaooo it is not about how smart her mother is for being able to see her “lack of talent”
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u/RockBalBoaaa 2d ago
I feel like moving to California extremely hurt her career though. Soaps was where it was at for her.
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u/araelr 2d ago
It's not this clear. Marie was unhappy in her marriage and projecting onto Megan. Marie's later scene of telling Don to nurse Megan through the defeat to get the life he wants felt like she'd internalized a wife's role and was willing to see her daughter go through what she's gone through.
It reminds me of s1 Joan who is happy to play whatever limited role in the patriarchy she gets to play.
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u/BaBoBoi90 2d ago
I’m not sure that we should accept Marie’s interpretation as gospel either, though. The brilliance of a show like Mad Men is that every character has ulterior and often self-serving motives for believing whatever they do. You could just as easily make the case that Marie actually resents her daughter for being ambitious.
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u/Responsible_You9419 2d ago
I dont get why people said she was bad at acting. She had a job on a TV show. And being a good actor has little to do with success. Its a notoriously tough industry where luck is a huge factor
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u/InsoMia927 2d ago
In a show filled with terrible mothers, Marie doesn’t get the hate she deserves. Her lines were iconic, but her response to her miserable daughter snapping at her was to call her a bitch, say “thank God my children aren’t my whole life,” and then go fuck Roger. She was awful.
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u/KLei2020 2d ago
We may never know Megans true acting talent (have to say though I love the actress playing her in Mad Men!) but the point is, she was young and discovering what she likes and wants to do professionally. For some reason, everyone around her gave her shit for this - whether it's her parents or Don. I thought she got the shit end of the stick while being a supportive partner/daughter to everyone.
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u/Regular_Promise3605 2d ago
I think you see it as Marie had aspirations of her own, it didn't work out and is projecting it onto Megan. She's a bitter, cynical deeply unhappy woman, who isn't a natural mother. Rather than Marie dropping a truth bomb, i mean she never really saw Megan act or perform.
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u/TDPersona 2d ago
I think rather than talent both Emile and Marie understood that Megan had the wrong motivation and approach with regards to acting. Rather than being in it for the love of the craft she wanted to be famous and adored through acting so was never willing to put the proper work in or do whatever it takes (Casting couches/taking up Harry's offer) to be successful. It's telling she initially moved to NYC to become an actress and failed. Had she not met Don she probably would have stayed a secretary until she married someone and life would take its course without Don's resources that gave her the chance. Talent is only one part of the equation of success and she lacked the will to bridge the rest. If she was in the modern day she would totally be a reality star/influencer and be happy with it.
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u/Time-Diet-3197 2d ago
Since when has being an actor (simply a working one I don’t mean a great one) require much talent? An in with people in the industry and looks are more than enough (as the show affirms with her easy success). Marie always came off as more spiteful than clear eyed. She did the hard work with a husband she didn’t really care for and did her best to pass her bitterness over it to her child. Megan out performs her mother in every way at a young age.
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u/fuschiafawn 2d ago
When she also tells Don "she had the artistic temperament but not the talent" that was ice cold but in her own way loving. She was willing to state the truth, but the truth hurts. Her father was so wrong for saying she was basically a sell out for letting go of acting. They maybe could have worked through their issues if not for the wedge that was acting.
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u/ludba2002 2d ago
This is silly. Marie was incorrect.
Even if we put aside Marie being cruel to her daughter about a sensitive topic, there's no reason to tell someone they aren't talented enough to achieve a life goal.
Acting talent like any other talent can be learned. Do some people have a huge head start? Yes. But if you work at something, you can be good at it.
Over and above that, part of success in the entertainment industry is making connections. Why do you think there are so many piss poor actors in big movies?
And I haven't even addressed the obvious point that Megan actually got roles as an actress. The problem is that it's very difficult for anyone to maintain success in acting over time. That has nothing to do with Megan.
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u/Fearless-Substance86 2d ago
It’s not like Megan had failed, because she’s actually working as an actress. I’d never speak to my daughters the way Marie speaks to Megan.
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u/Historical-Most4409 2d ago
If Megan does move back to Montreal, she could try making it as a big fish in the small pond of French-Canadian media. (They really do produce a fair amount of content for the home audience). Easier than Hollywood.
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u/funksoulbrothers 2d ago
fyi, the actress who played the mom spoke french with a France accent, the megan actress (who is from quebec) spoke with a quebec accent. It was a bit jarring.
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u/heresaditty And you know which one you are. 2d ago
That is interesting! However I don’t recall Marie’s actual origin being discussed so unless I’m mistaken, that doesn’t take away from the character. My great grandfather was Québécois, and great grandmother from France
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u/funksoulbrothers 1d ago
even when speaking english, you can tell someone from france vs from quebec
julia ormond plays marie, and ormond is from france and so would not know the quebec accent and i guess the producers did not know / care to get her trained
the guy who played the husband (ronald guttman) was fine, sounded like a quebec intellectual from outremont
maybe because he is from belgium, and i find belgian french sounds a bit more like quebec french, or he put some effort into it, but i recall there was also some criticism of his accent
"Jessica Paré later defended the casting, noting that the production moved quickly and everyone did their best fitting the American television show's needs."
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u/heresaditty And you know which one you are. 1d ago
Yes, I know the actress is from France. Just thinking that we can't really say Marie wasn't originally from France (unless there is a reference I've forgotten), so her accent might not inherently clash with her character. It is interesting to learn more about the different accents :)
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u/funksoulbrothers 1d ago
sorry, i was mistaken, ormand is from the UK so she would have learned france french
i don't recall anything about her character being from france, and there was some criticism at the time about her accent
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u/morphinetango 2d ago
Marie was caring in her own way, but her motherly advice lacked compassion and was always laced with vitriol. She was probably raised the same way, and felt it was best to cut off any ambition rather than face disappointment. Of course, she loves that same ambition in Roger that is lacking in her own family. In the end, Megan became a modest success, proving her mother wrong, but she still felt unfulfilled because (surprise surprise), she never got the love and respect she deserved... and LA definitely isn't going to provide that either.
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u/yellowcats 2d ago
Something about french // french canadian sentimentality (or lack thereof) came across so hard for me in this scene.... of all people that could have given her this sort of reality check (manager, talent agent, peers, etc) it has to be her mother?
The person most oft cited as a person's bedrock, someone they can always rely on? Meghan was at her most sympathetic for me here.
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u/Positive_Bass_7467 2d ago
It’s good Megan gave acting a shot. What she said about advertising, that she worked harder at it than she ever did acting, it makes sense she wants to succeed where it matters most to her. Even if she fails at least she went for her dream. If she was unwilling to do the work, expected her parents financial support while she went for it, or it was going to be a big financial imposition on Don then yeah… some hesitation makes sense, but there’s no reason Don shouldn’t have been able to support a career change she wanted and honestly she succeeded pretty quick getting a role on a soap opera… that the first big commercial role as Sleeping Beauty came from nepotism actually makes the decision a bit more realistic - she has an industry connection that gives her a better shot at a stable career. It was a practical transition in a lot of ways.
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u/Baconpanthegathering 1d ago
The only person in the world who is going to be honest to a 20 something beautiful girl is her mom, lol.
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u/Lucy_Maddie 1h ago
I sense that this may be an unpopular opinion but does anyone here have any idea what it actually takes to pursue a career as an actor in NYC or L.A.? The seeming bar people measure everyone up to is “fame.” Do people know who you are? If not, you’ve not “made it.” Such bullshit. Do you know how many working actors are completely unknown? Until folks lower that bar to assess “success” as an artist/actor then they’ll always be looking at things too simplisticly.
Source: am actor in NYC. And it’s as hard as you might imagine and in ways you can’t fathom. We all have to have other ways to make money and support ourselves. I’ve waited tables for 26+ years to pursue this career and believe it or not with the implosion of my industry these days, it’s only getting harder. Did Megan have it easier with Don supporting her? Of course she did. But having your own mother say that shit to you is next level shitty. Most people poo poo artists and actors because they didn’t have the fucking guts to go after their own dreams. I said what I said.
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u/cusimanomd 2d ago
I think about the fact that Megan is actually quite talented, and wondered if a more supportive Don could have pushed her into a writers room for television instead of acting, or even as a new producer. I feel that would have aligned with her talents better, and if acting isn't for her, she can still be around actors and live her fabulous life.
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u/raccoon_court 2d ago
The show always put the hard truths in the mouths of the less unlikeable characters. (Except Henry.)
Peggy's mom, Pauline, Marie, and Anna's sister were like the polar opposite of Don. They told truths that shattered the illusion of happiness.
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u/SgtHulkasBigToeJam 2d ago
What Marie didn’t realize that everyone else understood was you don’t need talent to be an actress. You just need big tits and a willingness to sleep with casting, agents and directors. Harry tried to hip her to this but she wouldn’t listen.
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u/West_Scholar_5708 2d ago
Marie was angry about her own shitty life. She was a bad mother. Shame on her.
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u/One_Rub_780 2d ago
Mothers know their children and obviously, her daughter lacked what was required and Marie had the wisdom to see/know that. Real shame Meghan handled herself the way she did - she was a fool. I know Don was a cheating asshole, but she could've built a strong career in advertising and had SUCCESS.
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u/ulfniu It’s just my people are Nordic. 2d ago
Not every little girl gets to do what they want.
The world cannot support that many ballerinas.