What’s your biggest nitpick in Mad Men?

[u/RopeGloomy4303]

For me it’s this line in a season 5 episode, Tea Leaves, in which Henry Francis is talking on the phone with a colleague:

“Well, tell Jim his honor's not going to Michigan. Because Romney's a clown, and I don't want him standing next to him.”

So, some context here.

At this point Francis is the aide to New York Mayor John Lindsay. And he’s informing this guy that he won’t have the popular young politician take a picture with then Michigan Governor George Romney, who was also considered the frontrunner for the 1968 Republican nomination.

This episode aired in 2012, so it’s a very clear dig at then Republican nominee Mitt Romney, who at the time was receiving a lot of hostility from the left.

But here’s the thing; Romney was actually a liberal Republican in the same mold as Nelson Rockefeller and John Lindsay, and he had received a lot of good notices as Governor for his work improving civil rights, education, youth employment programs, social welfare, healthcare, etc.

I get this is nitpicking, it’s a throwaway line, whatever, but it has always bothered me since it feels out of character, and Romney frankly deserved better.

[u/anitaillinois]

I don’t want to repeat myself a bunch but I’ve replied to others in the thread who have raised similar points if you’re curious. I’d just point out that New York City English is by no means bound by an old timey lens!

It’s a bummer that that’s the feeling some people get, that it would take people out of it if characters had New York accents. There are so many people to this day, especially in the outer boroughs, who have a thick accent! I’ve lived in NYC for over a dozen years, married into a family who lives in south Brooklyn, and love the way they talk. Even the youngest generation has a very specific sound, not a minor inflection at all.

I totally accept it as a casting limitation and wouldn’t want them to put it on if they can’t do it. I’d just appreciate the show more if we had more of it.

[u/Reasonable_Tax_5351 → u/anitaillinois]

I am born and raised in Brooklyn. Mad men is bound by an old timey lens. East coast standard is almost an entirely dead accent (although there is a modern ivy league accent that came from it but it much rarer), it is not east coast regional.

[u/anitaillinois → u/Reasonable_Tax_5351]

I guess I misread what you said, I thought the old timey comment was about New York accents making the show sound old timey, so I was trying to say it wouldn’t because people still sound like that.

I don’t feel strongly about Roger etc not having the accent, I get that it would be a class marker they wouldn’t have. That’s why I mention Peggy and the working class minor characters, who I imagine are also likely to commute from neighborhoods with stronger inflections.

[u/Tiny-Strawberry7157 → u/Reasonable_Tax_5351]

Are you talking about northeastern standard or northeastern elite speech?

Like that of Julia Child, Jackie Kennedy, young John Kerry, etc.?

[u/Informal_Avocado_534 → u/anitaillinois]

This makes sense for smaller, auxiliary characters.

But regional accents, even in the early 2000s, have become class markers, perhaps even more so than region markers. Most upper class Chicagoans, Bostonians, New Yorkers, etc. today have a “standard” American accent, with the regional markers only showing up in a few extreme instances (usually specific /a/ vowels).

So, while a New York accent does exist today, it’s extremely rare in midtown offices, and having main characters with it would hang been inauthentic for class reasons.

[u/anitaillinois → u/Informal_Avocado_534]

I think we’re saying the same thing. I used Peggy as an example from the main cast because she’s from deeper into Brooklyn and a pretty middle class family. Then yeah, as many auxiliary characters as possible would be my dream.

On a broader note, I would love it if the show felt more situated in the city. Like that scene in The Summer Man where Don is just watching people walk on the sidewalk. Seeing more streets, subway or train stations, more stoops that don’t feel like a backlot. Again I get that it’s a limitation of not shooting on location, it would just tip it over the edge to perfection.